Perfect reason why Nexon should nerf Singapore!
[url=http://img210.imageshack.us/f/postandprebbgraphcompara.png/]Graphical Reason[/url]
To prove why Nexon should nerf Singapore, I made this graph (Link above). The two graphs are about Pre-BB and Post-BB and illustrate the EXP given by monsters from levels 84 - 135.
EDIT: [b]NOTE:[/b] I said Singapore because Gallopera/Vikerola/Truckers are all found by going to Singapore from Kerning City, so I kept it general. Also, keep in mind that I only suggest to nerf specific monsters found through Singapore, not all, [b]OR[/b] provide a mini-dungeon for them because these monsters are causing a MAJOR disturbance in the EXP/level of monsters. Wasn't the purpose of BB to make leveling/exp fair and easy? Is it really fair to have ONE MONSTER be so godly in terms of EXP/monster? and for a large amount of levels, too! Remember that godly EXP from monster -> crowded maps -> KS wars -> Breaking ToS -> Banned :-)
/EDIT
[b]Pre-BB Graph (Top):[/b] As you can see from this graph, the EXP as levels increase is inconsistent; all the ups and downs on the line. There are various points on the graph that indicate monsters which give better experience for a range of ~10 levels. Some noteworthy points would:
Vikerola, lv87, 2000 EXP;
Gallopera, lv94, 2500 EXP;
Skelegon, lv110, 4500 EXP;
Skelesaur, lv113, 4750 EXP;
Oblivion Guardian, lv128 , 6670 EXP;
Chief Oblivion Guardian, lv131, 7060 EXP
These were the major training locations from lv80 - 130 that were worth grinding at. Also, there were other alternatives such as Wyvern and Himes. Thus, Pre-BB, players lv80 - 135 had 6 different training locations that provided good exp rates. Since accuracy was required in order to hit monsters, people at lv75 could train at Vikerola until level 85 (10 levels), then go to Gallos from 85 - 110 (25 levels), and then train at Skeles from level 110 - 130 (20 levels), and finally go to Chief Oblivion guardians for the remainder of the game or just stay at Gallos.
Players were also allowed to fight monsters several levels ahead of them thanks to other variables such as equips which helped increase their EXP Rate.
[b]Post-BB (Bottom):[/b] This graph demonstrates the major change in the EXP per monster level inconsistency; it's actually pretty linear! However, there are TWO major spikes on this graph. The 1st spike is due to Vikerola, lv87, 2000 EXP and the second is Gallopera, lv94, 2500 EXP. These two monsters are causing a major disturbance in the consistency of the EXP vs. Monster Level. It pretty much signifies that a Level 83~85 Player will not have a better EXP rate in any other map except Vikerolas until Level 89~91 (~8 levels). This is causing the Vikerola map to be crowded. After their training at Vikerola, the graph indicates that they will not have a better EXP rate in any other map except Gallopera until ~Lv135 (46 LEVELS!). So for 46 levels, a player is stuck at Gallopera. This increases the population at Gallopera significantly and it also increases the amount of KS wars. Also, not only will there be 3RD job players training there but 4TH job players as well. Can a level 94 Warrior really defend their map against a level 130 Mage? I think not!
Thus, this graph shows that it is NOT worth grinding at other maps besides Vikerola and Gallopera for the EXP rate will be significantly lower. Why settle for a lower EXP rate? People always want to level fast and want nothing less than to train at the best location or an alternate location. In this case, there is no alternative worth mentioning that even compares a little to Gallopera!
What's in order? A nerfing/mini-dungeon of Gallopera and Vikerola. There are actually other monsters that are causing major disturbances in training (Such as truckers) but they're at lower levels which I did not look into, so I did not include it here.
That's the end of my rant.
Feel free to use this graph (please give me credit?) to support any petition for Gallos nerf/mini-dungeon etc. because that's the only reason I made this post To assist those petitions
76 Comments • Newest first
Very well thought out. My support is in this.
Ummm, Truckers should not be Nerfed. And, dont put singapore monsters should be nerfed, put Malaysia Monsters, because if they do decide to go off what your saying, without reading what you actually mean, they might end up nerfing everything in singapore,Malaysia, and metropolis city, when most of the stuff in that general area should not be nerfed. That means Duku's would be nerfed, and all other monsters in ulu city. I understand what your trying to say, but try and reword your title a little more. Just a quick heads up on my opinion. Gallo's honestly should not be nerfed. People who know that scania is crowded, I went to Gallos in the middle of the day, and i found maybe 2-3 people in each chan. Plus, Gallo's Level:HP:EXP Ratio is fine. Just like I told another person about the EXP:HP:Level ratio for Jesters. This is all my opinion. Have fun, and stay out of trouble. Happy Holidays and Gl to all who are making a new character on December 20th, 2010.
EDIT* I do how ever, agree with the Dungeons, though, if they were to put a dungeon, I would wish that they would not nerf the dungeon. If you know what I mean.
[quote=ltachifire]How about we BUFF all the other monsters NOT nerf them.[/quote]
Totally agree x_x
I haven't been training at gallos or any of those monsters that nexon 'forgot' to nerf so I don't get used to the fast exp or anything. But the thing is that Big Bang didn't make leveling easier! I can tell that because I had to play my aran all over again (I got banned) so I got to experience alot of features and level experiences from 1 - 97, and what I can tell is that Nexon didn't make it easier, cause when we had all the features pre Big Bang I leveled at the same rate and to make it even worse, I found out that at the higher levels, when you're not training at monsters like Gallos, it's even harder to level -.-''.
When I trained my aran the first time, right when it got released on GMS, I got to level 120 in one month. Of course we had 2x cards and 2x buffs and all that stuff, but still was easier then it is now. The only thing they made easier was the accuracy system, because now you don't need to spend money at all on buying dex overalls and stuff cause mastery gives you all the accuracy you need until some later levels where you can get a zhelm or something ~.~
Anyway, if you ask me, Big Bang is a fail from level 70 - 150 (rounding up I guess). Making leveling easier is not lowering the exp to level and with it lower the exp the monsters give, making it easier would be to lower the exp to level and at least leave the exp of monsters as it is -.-
[quote=shediza]man some people are so ignorant, I mean we all wanted faster leveling, they gave it. now because of the awesome exp. it gets crowded and you cant train, suddenly you want it to get NERFED? so if you dont get the exp, nodbody else can get it?.. nerf it.. wtf man.. they just need to make other maps or so, or maybe even make other mosnters give more exp.. not nerf it. deff not...[/quote]
Yes its good exp yes it helps you level, yes we like it. But I don't think levels 90-110s should have to ks war with 4th jobbers. It's just not fair.
I think they should buff the others or give this one a minidungeon
the best is nerf the exp because if they made mini dungeons now when you reach lv 85 in 2-3 days u will be 120+ easily and this will take the fun about train
Truckers are also crazy.
Notice how lv 130 before BB is about 6k exp per monster, and after BB it is roughly 2k.. oh yes let's curve 50% off so maplers can lvl faster! (but also lets nerf all monsters 66% off)
slower nexon, slower..
Smexy graphs. Convincing tho.
Graph seems credible..valid points I suppose. Job well done sir. I am convinced.
Genius.
[quote=charismatic]Wow, our science majors have to take up to differential equations, plus statistics. How are you going to interpret large amounts of (possibly speculative) data without knowing statistics?[/quote]
Rofl, any scientist who hasn't been taught the fundamentals of statistics cannot call him or herself a scientist.
Stats are the largest part of cellular biology, organismal biology, classical physics, astrophysics, theoretical physics, geology, all types of engineering, medicine, math, organic chemistry, inorganic chemistry, biochemistry, sociology, psychology, actuarial sciences, [i]et j'en passe.[/i]
[quote=Nyrision]How about we get rid of ALL THE MONSTERS, and let's train on Party Quests [/quote]
This is what hell is for eternity!
nerf or buff as long as lvl 94 gallos dont give more exp than lvl 129s >.>
[quote=phoenix23]Try superimposing the graphs, TS.
It will emphasize just how much the reduced Exp curve is an illusion and training now is actually SLOWER.
(level 130 pre-BB: 6000 exp. level 130 post-BB: 2400)
The exception is Gallos and Vikers (and MP3 and Truckers).[/quote]
true
in the end it'll be as slow as before to level,lol
the issue is that nexon didn't touch world tour maps to upgrade them to the new "formulas" in big bang. making them broken. look how stupid easy targa and scarlion is now.
this happened in other versions of maple with big bang and yes, they were all fixed. which means... a nerf is coming. start looking around at big bang training guides to find out what the best spots are.
How about we buff monster experience and the monsters HP so we train in parties.
Try superimposing the graphs, TS.
It will emphasize just how much the reduced Exp curve is an illusion and training now is actually SLOWER.
(level 130 pre-BB: 6000 exp. level 130 post-BB: 2400)
The exception is Gallos and Vikers (and MP3 and Truckers).
Good game sir, I disagree, but each to their own, correct? If we both agree to disagree I will stop pestering you and we can go our separate ways. Although I do agree the ratios are out of whack, but I believe it's in a good way that can solve ks wars by mini dungeons or by moving them multiple maps away from town, and making a bot catching boss on the same map and having a quest need to be completed to access the area! It'll discourage botters, keep with awesome exp, and make it harder for you to take advantage of it! Do you agree? If not, other than nurfing or buffing, do you have any other ideal way to get the best of the exp ratios, but prevent ks wars?
I don't mean to troll, I just mean to state and support my views as you have yourself, if I come off as trollish I greatly apologize!
[quote=wiitunes]I think it's rather sad that the topic starter tries to show evidence for something and then when someone talks about something along those lines they then change sides momentary. This may be a bad example, but its like a politician saying "I don't believe in gay marriage" I then argue "But gay people are people, and marriage is a simple human right" then the politician saying "I agree and I'll jump on that wagon, but don't tell anyone else" on live nation television, I don't mean to offend any one with this, but the fact is your argue against something, [/quote]
I can tell you don't know how to read since you wrote this and yes, that was a very bad example. My argument is that Nexon should lower/fix Gallos EXP and I provided valid evidence. I was thanking the guy for referring me to a training spot for Paladins because my Lv145 Paladin is not about to go to Gallos just to KS someone or be KSed. What's wrong with that? Do you think I'm going to be attempting to get a Gallos map 24/7 when I know how badly populated it is? No, thanks.
[quote=wiitunes]show inaccurate graphs by showing a line graph rather than a scatter plot or a box and line plot so you show only one monster from that level, not realizing or accounting monsters of equal level and different exp, nor do you prove that those are gallos or any other monster![/quote]
Guess what? It IS a scatter plot! I just clicked the 'connect the dots' option to show what I believed was a better illustration of the graph and it just happened to come out like that. I also DID account monsters of equal level and luckily, Post-BB monsters of equal level had equal amounts of EXP! Pre-BB was a little different so I took the highest EXP offered by monsters that Players were capable of training on (excluded bosses/mini bosses) which actually resulted in selection of the usual training spots. Also, since you didn't read my post correctly and probably require some type of reading lesson and math lesson, if you analyze the post-BB graph you can see that the 2nd spike jumps at point (94, 2500) which means a Lv94 monster with 2500 EXP. There's only one monster with that much EXP at that level and which one is that? That's right! Gallos!
[quote=wiitunes]Although it is obvious, you lack proof. I also find that you do not compare their HP or even class and level damage by players! As such you forget to mention the exp:hp ratios of any other monster which does factor into training speed! Also, spawn speed does also factor in, if monster A spawns twice as fast as monster B, but monster B has twice the exp, and they have the same HP, the training speed is equal, but, when you add in exp and defense to your attack, you may get different results! Please, if you can combat that please do so![/quote]
It's true. I don't include HP, classes, level damage by players, EXP:HP ratios, training speed, spawn rate, and whatever other factor that contributes to [b]EXP RATE[/b]. Please keep in mind that I am arguing to lower/fix Gallos EXP because it causes inconsistency in the EXP per Monster level not EXP Rate which is only a factor used in my argument to make a point. Anything I mentioned about EXP rate came from known knowledge from not only me but others Players. That is why they're were preferred training spots mentioned. Also keep in mind I'm also arguing the nerfing of other monsters that cause such tremendous inconsistency in EXP per Monster level such as truckers and Vikerola. Now if you didn't know, Gallos has one of the best spawn rates/training maps for grinding. Couple this with epic EXP that's better than all other EXP and you got yourself one major KS war map. Even if it wasn't one of the best spawn rate, the fact that these monsters have such high EXP and low HP compared to all other monsters above their level (the higher the level, the more HP if you did not know that either) proves most of the other EXP rate factors to be invalid.
Since there were two graphs, I assume you were mostly referring to the "lack of proof" on the Post-BB graph. After all, the purpose of the pre-BB graph was to compare the previous inconsistency to the current inconsistency and point out specific training locations which stood out. The most important graph was of Post-BB and I believe it accurately and easily illustrated my argument.
Now that I'm done breaking your statement I'd just like to say please, don't be so ignorant.
Kthxbai
[quote=newrichboy]Oh Alright, awesome! Thanks for the advice :-D[/quote]
I think it's rather sad that the topic starter tries to show evidence for something and then when someone talks about something along those lines they then change sides momentary. This may be a bad example, but its like a politician saying "I don't believe in gay marriage" I then argue "But gay people are people, and marriage is a simple human right" then the politician saying "I agree and I'll jump on that wagon, but don't tell anyone else" on live nation television, I don't mean to offend any one with this, but the fact is your argue against something, show inaccurate graphs by showing a line graph rather than a scatter plot or a box and line plot so you show only one monster from that level, not realizing or accounting monsters of equal level and different exp, nor do you prove that those are gallos or any other monster! Although it is obvious, you lack proof. I also find that you do not compare their HP or even class and level damage by players! As such you forget to mention the exp:hp ratios of any other monster which does factor into training speed! Also, spawn speed does also factor in, if monster A spawns twice as fast as monster B, but monster B has twice the exp, and they have the same HP, the training speed is equal, but, when you add in exp and defense to your attack, you may get different results! Please, if you can combat that please do so!
1.It's Malaysia, not singapore.
2.Vikerolas and Galloperas should be buffed with more hp and higher lvl and the same exp. Then they will be around monsters their level. For example, Vikerolas should be around level 120, and have around 110k hp. Galloperas should be around level 130, and have around 140k hp.
[quote=tyrant20xx]@ above - who said 120+ is supposed to be a joke? nexon promised faster leveling and i just want a fair leveling pace - 10% an hour is agonizingly slow considering nexon promised faster leveling and with my lesser power pre-bb im sure i got more than 10% an hour[/quote]
Someone made a [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1808030/1/Basilers_Do_you_actually_level_faster.html#]Poll[/url] on basilmarket asking the Basilers if they thought that leveling was faster. Pretty much 95% of the basilers lv0 - 120 said they level faster now, so nexon kept their promise for people that are lvs0 - 120. However, for Players who are lv120+, 75% said that level was not faster for them. Meaning that it was either the same or slower (slower for me). Pretty much, Nexon only kept their word for a certain amount of people in a specific level range which I find extremely unfair. Have 60% of the maple population level faster and not the other 40%? I'm thinking of arguing about this after the whole Gallos issue is over.
@houdinimage: I would understand if warriors didn't like it so I found it surprising that it was actually more of a warrior training spot. I mean I used to train there on my Aran just because I had dash and could dash from platform to platform but I would have thought it was inconvenient for every other warrior.
I have to click the channel I was at least twice if I change channels in-game. On top of that, I have to probably click the bank fifteen times before it actually opens.
[quote=tyrant20xx]it would be nice just for a decent rebalance that would make other places as good/close to as good as Gallos so there wouldnt be 10 people per channel in a constant KS war fighting over a single map - one person deserves to level at a decent rate as much as the next and as long as one spot remains good for 60 levels no good could possible come out.
@ above - im not expecting an instant fix - i just want to know that they are aware of the issues and that they will get around to fixing them - better yet would be if they made good use of their time to make it not happen in the first place (though they will likely always find a way to mess up even with multiple time extensions)[/quote]
I just want there to be variety + good exp rates. No one really wants to train at Gallos for 30+ levels. I'd rather move on to a new monster every 3-5 levels and get about the same exp rate than have to grind for godly exp rates at the same damn monsters.
[quote=tyrant20xx]im not expecting an instant fix - i just want to know that they are aware of the issues and that they will get around to fixing them - better yet would be if they made good use of their time to make it not happen in the first place (though they will likely always find a way to mess up even with multiple time extensions)[/quote]
As do I, but I can imagine there are riots on their forums about Gallos and other issues, so I am sure they know about them by now. They need to pick their battles carefully though.
[quote=Ultros0]How about no unless you want everyone to level once every 30 minutes[/quote]
Unless you are level 10, that rate is not bad at all.
[quote=fedly]One more thing about Vikorelas, it's really not good there. Sure the exp is high, but the spawn and actual layout of the map is, less than average. I can't say the same for Gallos..[/quote]
Really? Every time I've been to Vikes now, I see it packed. Maybe it's just in my world? I found Vikerolas to be godly exp for my DB
[quote=Ultros0]How about no unless you want everyone to level once every 30 minutes[/quote]
That used to be my training speed before BB, 2 levels an hour on 4X exp. Used to only train once or twice a week =
[quote=tyrant20xx]yeah im on my way to quitting if they dont take appropriate actions to make things as they should be - meaning bugs that should not exists should be fixed and monsters need to be rebalanced (so leveling is decent for all and you dont have to compete over few maps that offer good training) or mini dungeons being made[/quote]
The Big Bang patch has been out for less than a week. There is a lot that needs to be done, but I doubt they will get all of it during this week's maintenance. All we can give them is time right now.
[quote=tyrant20xx]yeah im on my way to quitting if they dont take appropriate actions to make things as they should be - meaning bugs that should not exists should be fixed and monsters need to be rebalanced (so leveling is decent for all and you dont have to compete over few maps that offer good training) or mini dungeons being made[/quote]
I know it's not going to happen, but I'd like multiple training spots for each level. The BB may as well not have happened if it's once again just a few spots that far and above give the best exp. Let's face it; this game is about grinding. But having different monsters that all give comparable exp/hr would do a lot to make grinding not boring. Also, partying casually should actually give good exp.
@tyrant20xx: Just another reason why I'm probably going to get to 120 and then just quit again.
[quote=Bioshocked]Don't worry your pretty little head because when Chaos comes out, I'll be surprised if you see many Dual Bladers because of how badly the get nerfed. Thorns becomes a 30 watk buff that gives you Power Stance. Bye bye criticals.[/quote]
Thorns does become a power stance but now dbs get a base critical rate skill to replace it.
OT: I agree with this, it really is just broken and there is no other way to really put it. I had my spearman at trucker before the BB and i logged in on him to see 6-7ppl or so in one map trying to ks or hold a platform, nexon just needs to fix this already.
[quote=ltachifire]How about we BUFF all the other monsters NOT nerf them.[/quote]
How about no unless you want everyone to level once every 30 minutes
Why don't we just fill every map with Truckers and Galloperas? That seems to be ideal for those players who want a mini-dungeon. To make the game more appealing, Nexon tries to open up opportunity in more maps as evidenced by the near linear graph of exp in comparison to monster levels. Much of the content that was released pre-Big Bang was more or less taken for granted since the new monsters didn't have a good exp:HP ratio. By making these monsters fit the graph, Nexon can encourage players to explore new maps. If people spend too long training in one area, they may think that Maplestory is solely a large grindfest and quit as a result.
[quote=Bioshocked]Its possibly the worst place I have ever been to when it comes to training. I used to think Himes and STD's were bad when they first came out, but Gallos is a dang nightmare compared to them. I have yet to be in a map for more than five minutes without someone trying to or successfully KSing you.[/quote]
Quite frankly, it was that bad months ago. I don't want to go there but it seems to be the fastest bar none.
Damn. After BB it's like, get 20% an hour (worse than pre-BB) or go to a place that's so crowded you'll probably get no better exp.
Liked the graph, liked your points. Hoping for a buff in other mobs' exp. OR a mini-dungeon.
[quote=BloodNetPC]Good stuff, but people are just going to move onto Shadwagon.
Deal with it.[/quote] I've had a Chief Bandit/Shadower for three years. I hardly consider myself to be jumping onto the "Shadwagon," as you put it.
I was just hanging outside of Kerning today killing Octo's and I can't even count the number of rising Bandits I saw.
[quote=NineCrimes]A Gallo mini dungeon was needed before BB. I haven't been there since. I can only imagine.[/quote]
Its possibly the worst place I have ever been to when it comes to training. I used to think Himes and STD's were bad when they first came out, but Gallos is a dang nightmare compared to them. I have yet to be in a map for more than five minutes without someone trying to or successfully KSing you.
What about jesters?
A Gallo mini dungeon was needed before BB. I haven't been there since. I can only imagine.
i totaly agree. Pre- bb i trained at viks all the time. it was realy only a warrior trype of map but now all these sins and dbs and mages and archers come in and i dont like it =(. plz plz plz plz plz plz nerf viks.
[quote=BloodNetPC]I'd like it to be reasonably nerfed. Supposedly, these mobs are 'broken'. It is too much EXP for training on an IE Trucker and having it able to last you 40-80 is saying quite a bit. It isn't godly, it was a damn mistake. If they gave just enough to get 30% per hour, it would be just fine.
Say, why not have it nerfed? That's like saying Dual Blades should not be nerfed because Nexon made them completely OP, with a full Flash Jump, Thorns, Awkwardly moving above the mobs with their chibi sprites KSing everyone. If so many people who never made it past level 70 can be compensated with a whopping 10k, 8 hit per monster, why the hell should they be nerfed?[/quote]
Don't worry your pretty little head because when Chaos comes out, I'll be surprised if you see many Dual Bladers because of how badly the get nerfed. Thorns becomes a 30 watk buff that gives you Power Stance. Bye bye criticals.
[quote=cheese139]I mean, gallos are so crowded that it's literally slower training than most level 100 training spots.[/quote]
I was at Gallos for about 45 minutes the other day desperately trying to hold a corner, and I still gained 10%. I'm 114.
[quote=shediza]man some people are so ignorant, I mean we all wanted faster leveling, they gave it. now because of the awesome exp. it gets crowded and you cant train, suddenly you want it to get NERFED? so if you dont get the exp, nodbody else can get it?.. nerf it.. wtf man.. they just need to make other maps or so, or maybe even make other mosnters give more exp.. not nerf it. deff not...[/quote]
One of the goals of the BB was too make all training grounds the same training speed, causing players explore the game for potential training spots. The BB was not meant to make 3 different inanely overpowered training spots. I mean, gallos are so crowded that it's literally slower training than most level 100 training spots.
I just want this game to at least [b]try[/b] and be fair. Making one monster the main monster that dozens of different level characters should train on is a little stupid. I think they should do what they did with Zombies before the maps were re-done to have those platforms in the sky.
Four maps of the same monster back-to-back with varying level designs, big and small, and most of which were practical to train on if Nexon wants to keep Gallos the same HP to EXP ratio.
I hate BB. It just caused more chaos. At truckers, I'm killing 2 truckers at once, with like 8 people in a map at once. even though I'm only killing 2 truckers in the corner i'm STILL getting KS'd T_T I hate tthis.
I completely agree, i really hope nexon reads this thread, The thing is i love training at gallopera, but since big bang there maps have now got 3-6 people in then and they are all taken, and i know im on the worst server for this i mean scania is crowded anyway, but i can usually get a map, when training at gallos when i had a map in big bang i was on 60% an hour.
Basically, this is what I got out of this:
Since the monsters give good EXP and you or one of your friends got KSed badly, you want to change it to bad EXP? Why can't you just be happy that there are monsters that give out amazing EXP. People KS regardless, so don't use that as an excuse. Its ridiculous how basilers always find a way to complain. If the monsters give too little EXP then you complain, and once monsters give amazing EXP you complain too?
[quote=jackrocks]I get a kick reading comments people make regarding how people shouldn't make a big deal out of a game.
I get the feeling that some people just want to exploit it for all it's worth. As it stands, I hate how the new accuracy system strictly governs my training. But now to make Truckers, Vikerola, and Gallopera [i]realistically[/i] the only viable training from 48-130+ is frustrating.[/quote]
I believe the most frustrating thing is the accuracy system. I can easily kill monsters well above my level yet I'm forced to stay at monsters my level -.-
[quote=Nyrision]How about we get rid of ALL THE MONSTERS, and let's train on Party Quests [/quote]
are u serious?