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Bishop Problems and Solutions

Bishop Forum Talk about Cleric, Priest and Bishop

So after some looking around and starting a magician to bishop recently their are a few common complaints about bishops so I decided to go on a little brainstorming adventure and wanted to include you my fellow maplers/basilers. I am not a professional gamer or game developer and as such these ideas were not crafted to perfection and are not necessarily balanced. I think some of these ideas might be good and I bet some basilers out there could refine some of these ideas into something golden. I am certain that as a fellow bish you will find this post thought provoking and kinda fun to think about.

So here are 5 of some of the most common somplaints about Bishops as interpreted by my personal experience.
  1. Heal is underpowered late game (lesser complaint)
  2. Not enough options to support teammates (big complaint)
  3. Loss of unique value because of Phantom (big Complaint)
  4. Don't mob well enough (moderate complaint)
  5. too squishy (lesser complaint)

I'm sure I missed some but I think we can agree these are probably the complaints that are most talked about and probably need to be addressed before other ones.
The following are suggestions and some quick explanations that offer some solutions to one or more of the complaints listed above.

Infinity: Hp/Mp recovery applied to teammates. For a healer class we only have 2 skills that heal. There isn't any real problem with those skills but all maplers appreciate variety. Also passive health regen is something nearly all healer/support classes have in any game, especially mmo's, just not this one.

Genesis: add debuff that reduces armor/resist from enemies for x seconds. Makes the skill worth having in spite of the cd and makes us better to have in boss fights or really strong enemies.

Buff mastery: buffs on allies increased duration (equal to 50% of the bonus applied to you). Why is their only a buff duration increase on you?

Bahamut: While bahamut is summoned allies have increased negative status resistance (equal to 50% of the bonus applied to you) An awesome thing about a support classes skills is even if they are aggressive/damage skills they can still add benefits to party members, here is a great example.

Big Bang: gains chance to blind. Same as above

Dispel: Heals players for 10% of their max hp plus 10% of their max hp for each negative status effect removed. Or allies gain 100% negative status resistance for the next x seconds. Another option to heal/benefit party members.

Doom: works on boss monsters for 10% of normal duration. When used against bosses the cool down is multiplied by the number of members in your party. Doom is a cool skill but is sad in comparison with other options and almost always overlooked. This would give doom some viability and increase our class diversity.

Magic Booster: Grand Booster: Increases your magic attack speed by 1, increases all nearby party members (including yours) physical and magical attack speed by 1.
increase everyone's attack rate making a once bland skill supportive.

Invincible: Applies half of the bonus to party members. Or revamp: all nearby party members take 15% reduced damage and have a 15% chance to guard attacks.

(passive) Heal Mastery: Mastery level: 1. heal costs 100% more mp, bonus range, Heal can critically hit teammates. Admit it, this would be so cool.

(passive) Divine Favor (doesn't stack): All party members recover x hp/x% hp, every x amount of time or on every skill bish uses. Or party members can't lose more than x% of their max hp from a single attack. (effect reduced against bosses) Or every x secons party memebrs get a shield that guards the next attack.
Passive abilities cant be taken by phantom increasing our uniqueness. Also maybe we should change some of our skills to reflect higher mana costs or int based strength making our skills less viable for a phantom to abuse.

Some of these ideas implement great game design focused on increasing versatility. For instance If you simply want dps you could grab angel ray, if you want utility maybe you would grab big bang for the chance to blind, genesis for the bonus damage, or bahamut to boost party status resistance.

Looking through a lot of the skills available to us most of them are support options for very specific situations, often these situations aren't that common. Dispel might be indispensable in a boss fight but in mobbing my way to bish I haven't ever used it once. Resurrection and many other skills are the same way.

So even though we have a plethora of supportive tools it doesn't really fell like it because most are rarely used. The only support skills we might use commonly at a high level are heal (maybe), ADV bless, hs, and holy shield. As the support class we have 4 commonly used support skills over the course of 4 job classes, all of which can be taken by phantom, yuck.

In conclusion I think these options would solve the 1st and 2nd problems, and a little of the third problem. The 4th problem is tricky, we do okay mobbing for an adventurer class. If we mobbed as well as all the other adventurer classes and kept our same level of utility wouldn't that be a bit disrespectful of other adventurer classes that have good mobbing but don't have that kind of utility or team support? I think that a damage/mobbing/bossing bish is great as long as you give up some of your team support utility to do it. The 6th problem in my opinion is acceptable as we mitigate our squishy with holy shield, heal, magic guard, adv bless, and pots.

So my bishop friends now the ball is in your court. Were the ideas good? bad? okay but need adjustments? What would YOU do to address some of these problems?
Posted: March 2013 Permalink

Replies

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@AndyArcherX
summary: basically gain new skills and edit current skills to make bishops stronger and more useful
Mar 30 2013
archusz Level 201 Scania Bow Master
energy bolt.
change become giant energy bolt. 10 monster hit, 1000% damage, def ignor 100%.
loll
Mar 30 2013
My biggest complaint: angel ray skill book
Mar 30 2013
iVege Level 10 Khaini
So here are 5 of some of the most common somplaints about Bishops as interpreted by my personal experience.
1. Heal is underpowered late game (lesser complaint)
2. Not enough options to support teammates (big complaint)
3. Loss of unique value because of Phantom (big Complaint)
4. Don't mob well enough (moderate complaint)
5. too squishy (lesser complaint)[/quote]

1. How so? It does its job: to heal. If it seems useless or too situational, then that problem lies within the boss/training mechanics.
2. We are more supportive than any other job.
3. The only skill worth stealing from Bishops is Holy Symbol.
4. Better than Night Lords, huh. For a supportive class, we're pretty damn powerful. Look at our impressive 1v1%s and realise our 1v1 skill is also our mobbing skill.
5. With our supportive skills and Bahamut, we have the best survivability of any Explorer magician.

Infinity: Hp/Mp recovery applied to teammates. For a healer class we only have 2 skills that heal. There isn't any real problem with those skills but all maplers appreciate variety. Also passive health regen is something nearly all healer/support classes have in any game, especially mmo's, just not this one.[/quote]

Good idea, but apply it to a non-common skill, unique to Bishops. Though we could have a play with having different Infinities, since the F/P's has more stance at the moment anyway. Like Big Bang. What would I/Ls get?

Genesis: add debuff that reduces armor/resist from enemies for x seconds. Makes the skill worth having in spite of the cd and makes us better to have in boss fights or really strong enemies.[/quote]

Anything to make it worth using :]

Buff mastery: buffs on allies increased duration (equal to 50% of the bonus applied to you). Why is their only a buff duration increase on you?[/quote]

Just make Buff Mastery into a generic party skill.

Bahamut: While bahamut is summoned allies have increased negative status resistance (equal to 50% of the bonus applied to you) An awesome thing about a support classes skills is even if they are aggressive/damage skills they can still add benefits to party members, here is a great example.[/quote]

I guess you're just trying to make Bishops more supportive by making their effects party affected?

Big Bang: gains chance to blind. Same as above[/quote]

Could live without.

Dispel: Heals players for 10% of their max hp plus 10% of their max hp for each negative status effect removed. Or allies gain 100% negative status resistance for the next x seconds. Another option to heal/benefit party members.[/quote]

With that 100% status resistance effect, Dispel will need to have a cooldown. And that's a no-no.

Doom: works on boss monsters for 10% of normal duration. When used against bosses the cool down is multiplied by the number of members in your party. Doom is a cool skill but is sad in comparison with other options and almost always overlooked. This would give doom some viability and increase our class diversity.[/quote]

Turning bosses into Snails doesn't make this skill any more useful. And the mechanics behind the skill is too complicated. Keep things simple, yeah? There is really no reason for that cooldown * party members feature to be there other than the fact that you thought of it. There's no connection to anything.

Magic Booster: Grand Booster: Increases your magic attack speed by 1, increases all nearby party members (including yours) physical and magical attack speed by 1.
increase everyone's attack rate making a once bland skill supportive.[/quote]

Is this a change to Magic Booster? If so, then it's a nerf of 1 casting speed. Also seems to be stealing Speed Infusion's role. The skill is still bland; all you did was make it affect party members.

Invincible: Applies half of the bonus to party members. Or revamp: all nearby party members take 15% reduced damage and have a 15% chance to guard attacks.[/quote]

See Bahamut's comment.

(passive) Heal Mastery: Mastery level: 1. heal costs 100% more mp, bonus range, Heal can critically hit teammates. Admit it, this would be so cool.[/quote]

So, you're [i]not[/i] planning to fix Heal?

(passive) Divine Favor (doesn't stack): All party members recover x hp/x% hp, every x amount of time or on every skill bish uses. **Or party members can't lose more than x% of their max hp from a single attack. (effect reduced against bosses)** **Or every x secons party memebrs get a shield that guards the next attack**.
Passive abilities cant be taken by phantom increasing our uniqueness. Also maybe we should change some of our skills to reflect higher mana costs or int based strength making our skills less viable for a phantom to abuse.[/quote]

I like the @bolded.

---

And, that's all.
Mar 30 2013
nc4228 Level 205 Kradia Bishop
So here are 5 of some of the most common somplaints about Bishops as interpreted by my personal experience.
1. Heal is underpowered late game (lesser complaint)
2. Not enough options to support teammates (big complaint)
3. Loss of unique value because of Phantom (big Complaint)
4. Don't mob well enough (moderate complaint)
5. too squishy (lesser complaint)

1. Heal serves it's purpose in beginning at jesters. There is no reason to use heal later but that's almost redundant
2. Not enough options? Let's see, u have heal (seduce pt members), door, shell, dispel (big one), hs, adv bless, and ressurect (not even considering hypers)
3. Phantoms can't steal our hypers and they make our versions superior to phantoms. Anyways, most phantoms won't bother with all bishop skills (they will focus on attacks support or a variety of class skills)
4. Not completely. Ar hits 6 enemies but has no vertical range but shining ray compensates. Plus some big moves like genesis and big bang though they are not too bright.
5. Quite contrary, they are one of the tankiest out there (invincible, heal, shell, dispel, adv bless, and a considerable status resist from Bahamut

Infinity: most classes can cope without that.
Dispel: 100% status while using a spammable dispel is too cheap.
Doom: at max lvl 10% of duration on boss monsters would be like 2 sec which won't do anything.
Booster: every class has that kind of skill. Btw: ever heard of speed infusion. If u give that to bishops, then it would make our support a little overpowered.
Bahamut: that would be unique but it's already good without that improvement
Attacks: agreed. Some kind of status inflict would be nice.
Mar 30 2013
i think your ideas about infinity,genesis and buff mastery are great, especially buff mastery since one of the things that nag me are when I'm buffing and my party members buffs run out before mine, so i have to guess, or time it

Edit: Also my bish takes way less damage than my pty members when we are at Sh, except for kaisers
Mar 30 2013
JustAnotherUser Level 200 Khaini Bishop
1. I disagree. I never use HP potions while grinding, and my party members don't either (thanks to me). I've yet to find someone so much HP that I can't full heal him after 1 Heal
2. Grinding wise I agree. Our support skills shine while bossing (HMS, Resurrection, Heaven's door, Dispel, my party members just can't die). I would really like to be more supportive, but I don't think we're lacking in the departament.
3.Phantom can't steal much from a bishop without sacrificing at least half of their damage (even fully buffed with best skills, Bishops are stronger). Doesn't bother me much.
4. Totally not true. Bishop class is stronger than most other jobs on 2+ enemies. Maybe you mean effective attack range? if so I doubt we NEED a full map attack.
5. Too squishy? Bishops are probably the second most tanky class after Paladins (at least post hypers). In fact, you can be inside Holy magic shield 100% of the time by getting a mech card/Inner ability, have 25% damage reduction, inherit 60% status resist, Heal and can resurrect yourself if all else fails.
Mar 30 2013
1. Heal is underpowered late game (lesser complaint)

What does this even mean; you and your whole pt gets full hp in like 1s

2. Not enough options to support teammates (big complaint)

We're a support class; besides, people only care about hs/door/ and ab + hyper buffs, what more do you want?

3. Loss of unique value because of Phantom (big Complaint)

Phantoms and bishops are a completely different class and can never be compared in that way. I get phantoms have a broad range of buffs, but I'd rather have the original classes using them rather than relying always on a phant.

4. Don't mob well enough (moderate complaint)

Our only attack skill hits more than 1 enemy, you want combos with a support?

5. too squishy (lesser complaint)

I have roughly 50k mp at lvl 200, how is that squishy?
Mar 30 2013
jolteon7 Level 205 Broa I/L Arch Mage
you complained about everything besides the actual problem: vertical range on AR
Mar 30 2013
I like the idea of adding something extra to Big Bang, since I find very little use for it as is. It would be a nice alternative to attacking with AR all the time.
Mar 30 2013
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