General

Well.. Even Spadow said it himself "Please note that everything is not finalized yet"

I welcome the overhaul with open arms, just remove the ST image off every attack that has it, it's very annoying and change the EC animation. I will miss my iframes.

A way they could've increased our DPS without changing the class completely was do what @Worthyness said, "remove the delay at the end of Demo" and make it 16 hits at 250% dmg (% could be changed).

@doop26: Not his videos though, and he even said he would post a video for his Bucc.

As Tersera said, we should just stop making these threads for a while, when Spadow gives us his report on the new Buccaneers.

We still have 5-6 Months if my calculations are correct before this revamp. Enjoy it while you can.

I know you said that this debate is over..and i am not gonna comment on it, but i think it will be kool to give another playstyle for this character a try, we had to change playstyles a little from pre-bb to-post, which i didn't mind, and now im looking forward to this next patch, sure, i'll miss my class, but i'll gt over the changes and still play

@PhilTH I figured I could try to be polite.

Eh, not really it could have been better.

@PhilTH Whatever floats your boat, mate. Nice debate.

[quote=PhilTH]It's not fair, but then again Life isn't fair you just gotta take what it throws at you and deal with it.

Getting mad and complaining about the new revamp will not bring the old pirates back, and they never will come back sadly. Hey, I'll miss some of those skills too.

We should derailed this topic something fierce. . . it used to be about "stop complaining about the updates" Can we get back on that track?

I'll admit I lost the argument with you, I-frames are better and it's wrong to completely uproot a playstyle like this, but my point still stands. It could be better then the current gameplay, we got like 4-6 months till it comes to Global?

I just think we should save all the "OMG buccs are ruined threads" till then.[/quote]

^Read that, I lost I'm done.

[quote=ClapTrap]It's kinda funny how many people cry about the new bucc. First you wanted better dps, but with iframes there was no chance in doing so, they couldn't make demo faster and keep the same iframe.
Does any of you even remember how hard life was as a bucc to get into a party becuz we were so weak at bosses? Yeh, I always survived but I never had a feeling that I help with my dmg (eventhough my dmg is pretty badass).

But now, cmon, you can have up to 99% crit at bosses, 40% chance to ignore pdr (pb owng). I bet we got a huge boost in the dps chart, as all of us wanted.
Don't you know it from the movies? You have to sacrife something to become stronger. Very often it's your friends or your soul, we buccs had to sacrifice our iframes.[/quote]

Just gonna post what I've posted before in other maple forums- This is not a revamp; this is an overhaul:
1. Buccaneers aren't brought along to boss runs for DPS, because everyone assumes that DPS is the main reason everyone is brought along. If that is the reason, then tell me this: If Buccaner DPS is so low, then why don't people bring Arch mages into boss runs? They have better DPS than we do, especially with their new updates. Maybe they are, Who knows, I haven't been on any boss runs since I stopped playing every other day or so.

2. SOME people wanted better DPS. Other people were content where we were as a class. What a lot of people wanted was to have a Revamp, in other words, something more along the lines of what EVERY OTHER CLASS got.But no, Nexon believes that our class and thieves were just so much more worthy of a completer overhaul, something we didn't need at all. We wanted to keep our main skill set and have it improved upon, not completely scrapped.

3. Buccaneers are brought to boss runs for OTHER reasons than just DPS. Barrage has the ability to auto knockback monsters, something that is quite necessary for bossing. Oak Barrel often helps de-aggro things as well. both of these were taken out with the overhauling.

4. They COULD have increased the DPS of demo WHILE keeping the iFrames. What do you think happened to Evans when they sped up their animation? Now what do you think would happen if they sped up the demo animation? Nothing! The animation is faster and if you took out the little delay after you came out of demolition, BAM! you have a viable DPS skill that not only keeps the iFrames, but also adds damage! Hell they could have put more percentage damage on there too, since that's what Nexon has been doing for,I don't know, every other class? I mean they did it for Dragon strike (now it hits 2 times at the same damage percent! Damage increase!)

5. What is the point in getting stronger if you have to lose everything that you had before? There's reasons why we played the way we played before hand because it was fun and not as monotonous as many other classes were. I put my bowmaster on hold because I fell asleep training because of hurricane. You know what i was doing while Dragon Dancing on my buccaneer? I was engaged in the playstyle- I wasn't just spamming a laser cannon or pressing one button every few steps. I literally use half of my keyboard for skills now, but with this, I'll use what? maybe 6-7 keys (not counting buffs), which is a drastic cut off from what we had before.

Point is that Nexon basically completely changed anything that was attractive to the older players and made it more appealing to people who want flashy skills. I would be more ok with the overhaul if they didn't make all the new animations look like crap (namely every skill that utilizes the "summon a transformed spirit to do X and the screwy photoshop of the pyramid PQ buffs). I also don't like the fact that we're getting a laser or an ultimate, because NONE of those are necessary on a MELEE class. I'm sorry if I come off as flame-y, but this patch has basically ruined my favorite class in the game that I put a lot of my time into and I am not content with everything changing into some lame, monotonous playstyle with a significant relation to the classes that are considered "top tier". I was content where I was on teh DPS ladder- mprovements are fine, destroying a class is not.

It's a complete turnaround in comparison to where we are now, in fact we're the only class this has happened to so there's definitely going to be some complaining and disputes. For example, when BMs got their revamp in ascension we still kept our main core value which was shooting arrows at things from a distance. Now what if Nexon removed Inferno and made our main mobbing move something like PKB, where we have to move up to the mobs at close range and whack them with our bow. Then what if they removed Hurricane as well and buffed strafe to something like [i]Perfect Strafe[/i] where it hits 8 times and does more damage.

That being said, I still look forward to the revamp when it comes to us because its inevitable and I'd hate to judge something without trying it. Well anyways, you seem to get the point from @Tersera and @Tricks122.

[quote=ClapTrap]It's kinda funny how many people cry about the new bucc. First you wanted better dps, but with iframes there was no chance in doing so, they couldn't make demo faster and keep the same iframe.
Does any of you even remember how hard life was as a bucc to get into a party becuz we were so weak at bosses? Yeh, I always survived but I never had a feeling that I help with my dmg (eventhough my dmg is pretty badass).

But now, cmon, you can have up to 99% crit at bosses, 40% chance to ignore pdr (pb owng). I bet we got a huge boost in the dps chart, as all of us wanted.
Don't you know it from the movies? You have to sacrife something to become stronger. Very often it's your friends or your soul, we buccs had to sacrifice our iframes.[/quote]

Actually, it was easy as pie to get into Boss Runs. There are tons of Warriors in my server, so they appreciated SI a ton. Unfortunately, though, they swapped me into a separate party after I buffed them.

@PhilTH By your logic, since life is unfair, slaves shouldn't complain, the poor shouldn't complain about the government/economical systems and so on. Please, just because life is unfair doesn't mean it's an argument you can pull out your ass when you begin to lose.

Complaining about updates that essentially kill all the work I've put into my Bucc(Since Iframes are the reason I made my Bucc) is something worth complaining about. I mean honestly. That'd be like suddenly swapping Paladins with Priests; Nexon can do it, it's not set in stone, but there's no way in hell they would. However they did it for Buccs which is ridiculous.

My god people need to read the 3 pages before they comment.

Tersera: I knew from the moment I posted this I would be argued with.

Yeah it was harsh. . . It's a family thing.

[i]I just think we should save all the "OMG buccs are ruined threads" till then.[/i] I agree with because it's not yet official. But the publicity and the public replies are what gets them to change it while it's still in the Beta process.

Your opening post is pretty much saying "[i]get over it[/i]" instead of "[i]chill out, it can still turn out good[/i]. That's why you've got negative comments.

Because I still have hopes that it will revert back a little bit and kept some of the traditions that made a Buccaneer, a Buccaneer. But regardless big change or small change, I'm keen to try the revamped Buccaneer.

[quote=Tricks122]@PhilTH Sure, what other class has had a MAJOR GAMEPLAY overall before this? I don't believe any class did, they merely got perks and kept their general things. We're getting tons of new stuff that's rocking the boat in a way we don't like it, and honestly, in a way that shouldn'tve happened. I can deal with forever changing maps and bosses and such, but screwing up a class that >I< enjoyed and put tons of work, time and effort into so that I no longer enjoy playing it... How is that fair?

I mean honestly, this is the first time Nexon is completely revamping a class and they're doing it wrong. Some things SHOULD be set in stone. Honestly, all you're doing is saying I've become "too accustomed" to the class when that's the reason people make the classes they make in the first place. Your argument is flawed, illogical and invalid.[/quote]

It's not fair, but then again Life isn't fair you just gotta take what it throws at you and deal with it.

Getting mad and complaining about the new revamp will not bring the old pirates back, and they never will come back sadly. Hey, I'll miss some of those skills too.

We should derailed this topic something fierce. . . it used to be about "stop complaining about the updates" Can we get back on that track?

I'll admit I lost the argument with you, I-frames are better and it's wrong to completely uproot a playstyle like this, but my point still stands. It could be better then the current gameplay, we got like 4-6 months till it comes to Global?

I just think we should save all the "OMG buccs are ruined threads" till then.

[quote=PhilTH]Omg your so funny!

[b]Tricks: Buccs aren't about I-frames. . .[/b]

Buccs are about attacking a large number of enemies with flashy skills involving energy and close combat.[/quote]

I REALLY would like to lecture you on that statement, but it looks like you've got enough from the pros. Tricks and Tersera are some of the most knowledgeable Buccaneers I've seen, jus' sayin'.

@PhilTH you can't even respect a person opinion whose been playing a character for years. Pretty much means we can discard your opinion since your only level 100.

[quote=PhilTH]Teresa: I don't know I always get hit with magic attacks. . . It seems so luck based now.[/quote]
See that's the thing, you're not a Buccaneer yet.
Should you be a Buccaneer, staying [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/show/video/15276/0/Tersera_Untouchable.html]untouched[/url] is child's play.
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/show/video/15709/0/Tersera_Buccaneer_Compilation.html]Easy, easy, easy.[/url]

It's not even hard at all but this is what separates the young Buccs from the experienced. The knowledge and ability of staying untouched. Although now it doesn't really matter as much due to higher HP, reduced monster damage and a lot of other changes which made this game easier for the newer players which is why there was a pre-BB vs. post-BB thing going on about how post-BB Buccaneers have no control, it's not the players are just really bad - It's that pre-BB it was essential that you stay untouched while attacking, and because the need for it is lost, the tradition of Buccaneers being untouchable fighters naturally is lost and forgotten (that's why newer players tend to take more damage than the older, simply because they don't have the experience pre-BB Buccaneers did).

@PhilTH Sure, what other class has had a MAJOR GAMEPLAY overall before this? I don't believe any class did, they merely got perks and kept their general things. We're getting tons of new stuff that's rocking the boat in a way we don't like it, and honestly, in a way that shouldn'tve happened. I can deal with forever changing maps and bosses and such, but screwing up a class that >I< enjoyed and put tons of work, time and effort into so that I no longer enjoy playing it... How is that fair?

I mean honestly, this is the first time Nexon is completely revamping a class and they're doing it wrong. Some things SHOULD be set in stone. Honestly, all you're doing is saying I've become "too accustomed" to the class when that's the reason people make the classes they make in the first place. Your argument is flawed, illogical and invalid.

Teresa: I don't know I always get hit with magic attacks. . . It seems so luck based now.

Tricks: Only class I can think of is DB, but I think that's just a skill. . .
I never said "Halving I-frames is good" I just said "it's not a big deal"

Really you shouldn't have grown so accustomed to one playing style, this is an online game it's forever changing, not everything is set in stone. I'm not saying it's your fault for adapting to the play style, i'm just saying you shouldn't have gotten so caught up in it.

why do we complain about this?
we're not a mage, we're not a cannoner then why are we blasting that mastive laser thing and why are we able to att the whole map.. </3
buccs are all about close range attack whats the point of having a knuckle if you just use that laser thing all the time

after the revamp buccaneers are going to be so bad

@PhilTH Name another class that has as many Iframes as us. All I can think of our Shads(Who have less Iframes but more avoid due to Shifter IIRC). I haven't looked at the new skills yet since it's not 100% sure they'll stay the way they are, but honestly, defense is worthless nowadays. If it was an "accidental blessing", then why have some Buccs built their GAMEPLAY around it for years and done perfectly fine? If it was really accidental, it would've been "fixed" a LONG time ago.

Halving something that really messes up the playstyle the majority of the population has is really a good, right? That's like taking away a Warrior's Rush and their specialty in exchange for some random buff somewhere else. It's ridiculous.

Buccaneers can control wether or not they want to get hit.
Other classes such as Shadower only has Boomerang Step to do that and the rest is by chance with Shadow Shifter.
Dual Bladers also have moves with iframes however they lack the recovery needed after the attack.
Warriors are limited to only Rush and Block for Paladin which also lacks recovery for permanent iframes.
Archers are also just about chance and luck with their Dodge ability.
Mechanics and Battle Mages are also about luck with Block and their Drill which also lacks the recovery for permanent iframes.

Buccaneers can maintain perfect invulnerability unlike other classes.
With Vipersition, we become another class that relies on luck since it's only 20% resistance.

Get to level 16x before the update and experience fighting Lyka in Temple of Time. If you can do it without getting seduced, you'll be very annoyed when you get seduced every 10 seconds after revamp.

[quote=Tersera]Wrong again. Higher defense hardly makes up for loss of i-frames, and it's much less than half. You lose ALL bossing iframes unless you want to hinder DPS by using CSB or Double Spiral in between.
Having higher defense does not block any attacks that will stun you or seduce you.[/quote]

Isn't that what Vipersition and Maple Warrior are for?

Wrong again. Higher defense hardly makes up for loss of i-frames, and it's much less than half. You lose ALL bossing iframes unless you want to hinder DPS by using CSB or Double Spiral in between.
Having higher defense does not block any attacks that will stun you or seduce you.

[quote=Tricks122]@PhilTH Really? Because last I checked two of our main 4th job skills(Barrage and Demo) and two of our 2nd job skills(Cork and Backspin) gave Iframes and were a FUNDAMENTAL part of training. Buccs were never really that flashy other than ST/DS, otherwise I don't think they had that much standing out visually. Yea, way back pre-BB Buccs would Dragon Dance all night while training, I don't think people do that anymore.

When you have the MOST Iframes moves out of every class, two of them are MAIN FOURTH JOB skills and the other two USEFUL skills before 4th job as well as being the best at consistently using Iframes, I think we can safely say that Buccs are a fair bit about Iframes. Like really, there are so many "close combat" classes you can't say Buccs are purely about that and skills involving Energy... We have three. Drain, Blast and Orb. One of those is maxed late 15x, the other two are used circumstantially. We're not based of off those.[/quote]

Really; Buccs have the most I-frames at of any class? That seems so unlikely. . .

Is that all? I-frames; I say Guard Crash and defense boosting skills make up for that loss. and it's not like we completely lost the use of I-frames it just got halved. Besides I-frames seems more like an "Accidental Blessing" then a "Intended use for the class."

Teresa: See above.

its all about staying invincible at all times. you come and lecture us more experienced buccs that's just to funny.

[quote=PhilTH]Omg your so funny!

Tricks: Buccs aren't about I-frames. . .

Buccs are about attacking a large number of enemies with flashy skills involving energy and close combat.[/quote]
Wrong. Back in the days Buccs were well known for killing people by Rushing Big Foot while staying alive and completely untouched while killing him.
That and the high survivability in Dojo and Dragon Rider pq made them stand out very much when they're the only ones attacking while the others are on the other side of the map ducking for cover.

@PhilTH Really? Because last I checked two of our main 4th job skills(Barrage and Demo) and two of our 2nd job skills(Cork and Backspin) gave Iframes and were a FUNDAMENTAL part of training. Buccs were never really that flashy other than ST/DS, otherwise I don't think they had that much standing out visually. Yea, way back pre-BB Buccs would Dragon Dance all night while training, I don't think people do that anymore.

When you have the MOST Iframes moves out of every class, two of them are MAIN FOURTH JOB skills and the other two USEFUL skills before 4th job as well as being the best at consistently using Iframes, I think we can safely say that Buccs are a fair bit about Iframes. Like really, there are so many "close combat" classes you can't say Buccs are purely about that and skills involving Energy... We have three. Drain, Blast and Orb. One of those is maxed late 15x, the other two are used circumstantially. We're not based of off those.

[quote=Reapinator]How do you know? Maybe she never updates her character, for all we know she could be 200.[/quote]

Omg your so funny!

Tricks: Buccs aren't about I-frames. . .

Buccs are about attacking a large number of enemies with flashy skills involving energy and close combat.

I loved my Brawler because of all the different moves I had...SSK, FF, BSB, CSB, and now they're taking MOST of them away. Why? It's stupid.

[quote=PhilTH]This thread is not about me being level 100.

This thread is about how people have no loyalty to the buccaneer class. Look past the changes it's still the same class; just much flashier.[/quote]

Yea, because modifying Iframes, the playstyle and replacing several of our moves is the exact same class we feel in love with in the first place.

This thread is not about me being level 100.

This thread is about how people have no loyalty to the buccaneer class. Look past the changes it's still the same class; just much flashier.

I think we have enough of these threads already..
Every similar thought doesn't need a brand new topic. Our forums are being spammed up enough as it is |:

[quote=cheese139]Your only level 100.

You wouldn't understand.[/quote]
Also.. This exactly..
You'd welcome all changes with open arms simply due to the fact you're not accustomed to how our class has always been.
If you were around a bit longer, or hell. [i]Even[/i] a Buccaneer, I'm sure you'd realize how much this update honestly affected us.

Really, we can't stop the revamp from occurring, and we all know extreme whining and moaning won't change a single thing. We'll accept the changes, but despite that, it won't stop us from reminiscing about how our class currently is, or was.

Your only level 100.

You wouldn't understand.