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Dualblade

New patch avoid changes

Maximum Avoidability you can have is now 90% instead of 100%.
Do you guys think that this now removes our almost godmode?

November 22, 2012

30 Comments • Newest first

lulzace

[quote=Dominion]But why knock on DB's if they're raising the boss' HP so much This isn't a way to encourage party runs if you ask me.[/quote]

I know what you mean, and look at how hard it is to do already. Lookin' at you cyggy.

Reply November 27, 2012
TripleBladez

[quote=Dominion]But why knock on DB's if they're raising the boss' HP so much This isn't a way to encourage party runs if you ask me.[/quote]

DB's have the potential to have legit godmode. Phantoms too, so they have to balance things out. It's like pre-BB where decently funded Thieves could have close to legit godmode making them more worthwhile to use at bosses than any other class.

I thought about it, but how else would you encourage partying? This game is a matter of numbers primarily, so unless you want to add more annoying status effects to bosses, they might as well raise the HP. Now there's also an advantage and disadvantage to every solution. Nexon's theoretical advantage is to promote party play. The disadvantage is obviously the Potential System. For example, one exceptionally funded character class has the potential to beat out maybe ten or more decently funded individuals of the same class. What went wrong with the Potential System will linger for the rest of this game. By exponentially increasing one individual's damage, there's no point in having others tag along with you. By soloing bosses, you also keep 100% of the profits instead of evenly distributing it to each person that helped.

Reply November 26, 2012 - edited
Dominion

[quote=TripleBladez]
This "nerf" is more of a knock on DB's (and also Phantoms) because this formula was unbalanced in the first place. The average DB and Phantom had more avoid than a NL and Shad.[/quote]

But why knock on DB's if they're raising the boss' HP so much This isn't a way to encourage party runs if you ask me.

Reply November 26, 2012 - edited
Beefstew

even with 90% of attacks missing, that one attack that goes through will utterly destroy my puny lil NL

Reply November 26, 2012 - edited
loveapple142

We still have about 6 months to enjoy our Godmode now
And it's stilll KMST. It can be changed. And players in KMS are stronger than us. GMS may change some parts of this patch

Reply November 26, 2012 - edited
lulzace

[quote=ItzATrapp]Phantom's have a resurrection buff, but NLs are just squishy unless you're Proxied.[/quote]

Well I'm talking about the actual chance of hitting.

[quote=TripleBladez]Body Boost is for BaM only, lol. Their AYA in 4th job is a party skill, so that would give 20% Dodge Rate (which is still nice). My only complaint about BaM auras is that you need to be super close to a BaM at all times to receive the effect or else it's turned off if you're far away (like at LHC).

@lulzace: Well, even if you have 9999 Avoid as a DB, you'd still get hit by bosses like Chaos PB if they have 9999 Accuracy.

@AnmolxD: I'm 100% sure that the DB character card is only Avoidability % and not Avoid Rate, which means it's quite useless. If you had like 5k Avoid and a SS Rank DB character card, it'd only be 5k * 1.05x = 5250 Avoid.[/quote]

Yeah that is hypothetically right. But this being a game has lots of calculations and when it comes to bosses both the player and the boss seem to have a margin of error multiplied in on each hit. At higher levels and with more accuracy this doesn't matter, however even in the event that you go up against a boss with 9999 hit, even without factoring in the variable margin of error there is still the dodge chance you have to deal with. DB's have like 40-45% w/o MT and 65-70% with it. I'm not too sure on the phantom's values as mine is still 3rd job but the fact that there is avoid chance just lessens the chance youd be hit after factoring in all other necessary avoid calc's.

Don't quote me on the variable margin of error thing because i read it on a blog giving calculations for avoid hit and damage but it might not be true anymore.

Like i guess it makes sense in an abstract but its like...you have a wind tunnel in a wind tunnel, you want to blow up the smaller, inne one, but the overall bigger tunnel is making it that much harder to hit your main target. Avoid/Dodge Chance is the big tunnel and your amount of avoid is the little one.

Don't mind me i just go to town on theoretical tangents...

Reply November 26, 2012 - edited
bubblecup118

[quote=Hualicious]Lol, you read the update notes of kMS and you didn't see that?[/quote]

KMST, not in the live server yet

Reply November 24, 2012 - edited
TripleBladez

[quote=Chirnobyl]oh, thought Mercedes was 60% dodge rate, sorry. Body Boosted AYA grants an additional 40% Dodge though no? (still would set Mercedes at 100%)
Edit: or is Body Boost for the Battle Mage only? if so then never mind[/quote]

Body Boost is for BaM only, lol. Their AYA in 4th job is a party skill, so that would give 20% Dodge Rate (which is still nice). My only complaint about BaM auras is that you need to be super close to a BaM at all times to receive the effect or else it's turned off if you're far away (like at LHC).

@lulzace: Well, even if you have 9999 Avoid as a DB, you'd still get hit by bosses like Chaos PB if they have 9999 Accuracy.

@AnmolxD: I'm 100% sure that the DB character card is only Avoidability % and not Avoid Rate, which means it's quite useless. If you had like 5k Avoid and a SS Rank DB character card, it'd only be 5k * 1.05x = 5250 Avoid.

Reply November 24, 2012 - edited
ItzATrapp

[quote=lulzace]We have a 70% total chance to dodge avoid % is like
you have 9999 avoid right? instead of auto god mode you will avoid hits by a 90% margin so you WILL get hit eventually, just no very often. Phantoms and NL even less so. But our hp seems to be better so go figure.[/quote]

Phantom's have a resurrection buff, but NLs are just squishy unless you're Proxied.

Reply November 24, 2012 - edited
lulzace

We have a 70% total chance to dodge avoid % is like
you have 9999 avoid right? instead of auto god mode you will avoid hits by a 90% margin so you WILL get hit eventually, just no very often. Phantoms and NL even less so. But our hp seems to be better so go figure.

Reply November 24, 2012 - edited
Chirnobyl

[quote=TripleBladez]It's impossible to have over 100% Dodge Rate, lol. That would be legit godmode a la funded DB's currently. I don't know what skills you're looking at, but assuming BaM's AYA gives 20% Dodge Rate to the party, how does Mercedes specifically have 100% Dodge Rate? Can you list me the skills you saw that have avoid so I can be sure?

Phantoms have 40% Avoid Rate, and 50% Dodge Rate. Mercedes have 20% Avoid Rate, and 40% Dodge Rate. Assuming BaM's AYA is 20% Dodge Rate, and not Avoid Rate or Avoidability %, then Phantoms would have 70% Dodge Rate and Mercedes would have 60% Dodge Rate.[/quote]
oh, thought Mercedes was 60% dodge rate, sorry. Body Boosted AYA grants an additional 40% Dodge though no? (still would set Mercedes at 100%)
Edit: or is Body Boost for the Battle Mage only? if so then never mind

Reply November 24, 2012 - edited
TripleBladez

[quote=Chirnobyl]Actually I thought that this change was supposed to be directed more at Phantoms and Mercedes because of the whole BaM Hyper skills turning Body Boost Advanced Yellow Aura into being practically permanently on, so Phantom + BaM would result in 110% Dodge Rate on the Phantom or so and Mercedes + BaM would result in 120% Dodge Rate on the Mercedes. However, after seeing the word "Avoidability" being used in Orangemushroom, I'm not so sure anymore :[/quote]

It's impossible to have over 100% Dodge Rate, lol. That would be legit godmode a la funded DB's currently. I don't know what skills you're looking at, but assuming BaM's AYA gives 20% Dodge Rate to the party, how does Mercedes specifically have 100% Dodge Rate? Can you list me the skills you saw that have avoid so I can be sure?

Phantoms have 40% Avoid Rate, and 50% Dodge Rate. Mercedes have 20% Avoid Rate, and 40% Dodge Rate. Assuming BaM's AYA is 20% Dodge Rate, and not Avoid Rate or Avoidability %, then Phantoms would have 70% Dodge Rate and Mercedes would have 60% Dodge Rate.

Reply November 24, 2012 - edited
ItzATrapp

@Ravens:

Yep, so does DBs MT, but I'm talking about how the boss's have been buffed, so they'll basically use 1/1 more, while you're getting attacked by aggressive summons, during a seduce. Seems like bishops become more useful now

Reply November 23, 2012 - edited
ItzATrapp

[quote=Ravens]Shads FTW
gotta love how shads have -60%dmg and 2.1x def[/quote]

Technically this makes it more viable for DBs to use MT during boss runs. We may not have as much def as you guys, but we get -20% damage and 1.6x defense. Neither of which matters for either classes if we get seduced, 1/1'd multiple times, and aggro'd by the monsters that monster like Czak summons. Apparently the monsters summoned by bosses automatically aggro on you now, so there is no "hoping" you won't get hit because if you get seduced during a boss run, you're pretty much dead while you're in a corner getting hit by 1/1 and summoned mobs o.o

Reply November 23, 2012 - edited
Chirnobyl

Actually I thought that this change was supposed to be directed more at Phantoms and Mercedes because of the whole BaM Hyper skills turning Body Boost Advanced Yellow Aura into being practically permanently on, so Phantom + BaM would result in 110% Dodge Rate on the Phantom or so and Mercedes + BaM would result in 120% Dodge Rate on the Mercedes. However, after seeing the word "Avoidability" being used in Orangemushroom, I'm not so sure anymore :

Reply November 23, 2012 - edited
Tchan

the boss hp raise its crazy...they trying to make us buy more us. i feel bad for them noobs

Reply November 23, 2012 - edited
onigiri123

Shame... but the cap increase is nothing compared to some pizza slices.

Reply November 23, 2012 - edited
DayServant

[quote=TripleBladez]Right, but we haven't seen yet how this affects every class. Remember, it's only Tespia, so people are using clean equips at bosses.

Attack range went from 999,999 to 2m, and damage cap went up from 999,999 to 50m. HP and MP went from 99,999 to 500k, DEF from 9,999 to 99,999, Avoid Rate being nerfed, etc. It could be like the transition from pre-BB to post-BB where people have a higher range, more HP/MP, avoid formula being nerfed (ironic, much). Since no one uses secondary stats anymore, your main stat should also increase DEF by a significant amount. This is what I can only hope. >_>[/quote]

Christ..

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
TripleBladez

[quote=ItzATrapp]It means that Thieves got a huge nerf because I was looking at a "normal hilla" video and hilla had 14k on a level 170 DS. Most thieves have less than that much HP t that level, which is why we rely on avoid.

On the other hand, Phys Def cap got raised to 99,999. So warriors, especially Pallys, become better tankers while all thieves can get one shot at all the new bosses </3
Of course, this is even worse for archers and pirates who don't have much avoid in the first place...[/quote]

Right, but we haven't seen yet how this affects every class. Remember, it's only Tespia, so people are using clean equips at bosses.

Attack range went from 999,999 to 2m, and damage cap went up from 999,999 to 50m. HP and MP went from 99,999 to 500k, DEF from 9,999 to 99,999, Avoid Rate being nerfed, etc. It could be like the transition from pre-BB to post-BB where people have a higher range, more HP/MP, avoid formula being nerfed (ironic, much). Since no one uses secondary stats anymore, your main stat should also increase DEF by a significant amount. This is what I can only hope. >_>

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
ItzATrapp

[quote=TripleBladez]This is simple stuff to comprehend. For DB's specifically, 3 of their skills increase their base Avoid Rate by a 1.7x multiplier (70% essentially).

Whoever has over 90% Avoid Rate after factoring in those 3 skills gets hard capped to 90% (basically, you don't have that extra 10% to have legit godmode anymore).

This "nerf" is more of a knock on DB's (and also Phantoms) because this formula was unbalanced in the first place. The average DB and Phantom had more avoid than a NL and Shad.[/quote]

It means that Thieves got a huge nerf because I was looking at a "normal hilla" video and hilla had 14k on a level 170 DS. Most thieves have less than that much HP t that level, which is why we rely on avoid.

On the other hand, Phys Def cap got raised to 99,999. So warriors, especially Pallys, become better tankers while all thieves can get one shot at all the new bosses </3
Of course, this is even worse for archers and pirates who don't have much avoid in the first place...

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
TripleBladez

This is simple stuff to comprehend. For DB's specifically, 3 of their skills increase their base Avoid Rate by a 1.7x multiplier (70% essentially).

Whoever has over 90% Avoid Rate after factoring in those 3 skills gets hard capped to 90% (basically, you don't have that extra 10% to have legit godmode anymore).

This "nerf" is more of a knock on DB's (and also Phantoms) because this formula was unbalanced in the first place. The average DB and Phantom had more avoid than a NL and Shad.

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
ItzATrapp

I think it basically means that it isn't possible to dodge 100% of attacks anymore. So dodging 90% of all attacks is still pretty good.

But this is a big slap in the face for thieves, because warriors get their physical defense cap raised, but thieves get their defensive abilities reduced.

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
Demon671

The dmg cap raising isn't what I see as a problem more so on boss's hp's became a insane amount.

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
wanted123456

[quote=ddsushi]Nexon deletes all our equips the same day that kms raises the damage cap to 50m.
Wonderful.[/quote]
Gonna cap dat?

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
ddsushi

Nexon deletes all our equips the same day that kms raises the damage cap to 50m.
Wonderful.

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
janny1993

[quote=Hualicious]Lol, you read the update notes of kMS and you didn't see that?[/quote]

I haven't seen anything related to "avoidability" nerf thus far.

P.S. Oh, I just found the said patch: http://ribbonpig.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/kmst-v-1-2-456-it-isnt-automata-filler-patch/

Orange Mushroom Blog is slow this time, just got an update awhile ago:
http://orangemushroom.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/kmst-ver-1-2-456-huge-system-reorganization-winter-update-teaser/#more-4819

Haven't read through any of the blogs yet though.

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
Hualicious

[quote=janny1993]What patch are you referring to?[/quote]

Lol, you read the update notes of kMS and you didn't see that?

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
janny1993

What patch are you referring to?

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
reedpipes

Yeah I'm not sure what that 90% avoid thing means.

One way to interpret is that one can no longer have misses 100% of the time

Another way to interpret it is that one can no longer have over 90% dodge rate from skills, but it's still possible to never get hit by getting lots of avoid.

I'm thinking that the first interpretation is correct, since no class has over 90% dodge rate from skills anyways 0_o

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited
ItzATrapp

[quote=zarago]GFY we NLs probably will die from one hit for the next eternity.[/quote]

Dodge and avoid are two different things... You still have your 45% dodge, we stacks on top of a 90% avoid if you can get that much.

Also the whole thing is rather vague, because they forget that whether or not a monster can hit us is dependent on monster's accuracy vs our avoid. But the main thing they were trying to do was to get rid of indefinite avoiding of attacks. So we'll just have to wait and see/.

Reply November 22, 2012 - edited