General

[quote=fraddBS]@WorkOfArt: People first thought the earth was flat.
They were later proven wrong.
Just because something comes first does not mean it is correct.[/quote]

Except the Kpop decree.

im korean and im embarrassed..

@fraddBS: Your entire argument is rendered permanently invalid because the Kpop decree was created prior to the anti-kpop decree.

@DemonsFromSpace: because asian loving jackasses spawn too

[quote=WorkOfArt]@fraddBS
@Dendrology
@kennyismybro
@spring786
@Namihika
@myHeartbeat
@lastman28
@DemonsFromSpace
@Kizo
@RoflPandar
@cocobenz
@xbladerFTW
@Chema

These individuals all fall under Rule 3 or Rule 4.[/quote]

I obviously do NOT belong in the list though. I was talking about these haters not the K Pop groups. Seriously, why the hell does all these Asian hating jackasses always spawn on Sunday afternoons?

@WorkOfArt: This individual falls under Rule 9.

[quote=fraddBS]Anybody can make rules like this you stupid fool.

Rule 1: There is no arguing against the [b] anti-Kpop decree[/b]
Rule 2: No [b]positive[/b] opinion of Kpop itself is true.
Rule 3: All individuals who claim to have [b]positive[/b] opinions towards Kpop are lying to themselves.
Rule 4: All individuals who claim to have [b]positive[/b] opinions towards Kpop are lying to those around them in order to hide their guilty disgust.
Rule 5: All individuals who [b]promote[/b] or [b]support[/b] Kpop in any way are automatically placed under Rule 3 or 4.
Rule 6: All individuals who are indifferent about Kpop are placed under Rule 3 or 4.
Rule 7: Those who fall under rules 3, 4, 5, or 6, will be placed under Rule 8.
Rule 8: [b]Kpop is terrible.[/b][/quote]

Creating an anti-Kpop decree argues against the Kpop decree therefore it breaks Rule 1. Your argument is invalid.

who cares about kpop? it's all about the vocaloids now.

@PonyCard: if she was saying that the TS was dumb because she said everyone loves KPOP and anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves she should have been more specific rather than saying "shut the hell up you dumb Asian." Because some Asians find that rather offensive. If you think that the TS is a "try hard troll" you shouldn't be commenting, haven't you ever heard the saying: don't feed the trolls?

@xbladerFTW
'scuse me, you asked for my opinion and explanation on why kpop is considered art. Are you not going to give a well thought out reply that explains why I'm wrong?

[quote=xbladerFTW]You explicitly stated "...if lady gaga didn't have talent why would she be so rich?" [b]which implies that you think having a large sum of money means you have talent.[/b] People are sheep and will like and buy anything that means they will be accepted by society without considering how crappy it really is.[/quote]

No, it does not. Lady gaga used her "talent" to earn herself a ton of money. You can only consider something that is crappy in your own opinion.

[quote=xbladerFTW]Rebecca Black's Friday has over 40 million views in which she gets paid for. Kim Kardashian is famous for being famous. Money and popularity =/= talent.

@WorkOfArt: Too bad art isn't synonymous with talent.[/quote]

I'm not saying that money and popularity means you have talent, i'm saying that talent earns you money and popularity, Rebecca Black has talent, if you check on her new songs heaps of people are actually supporting her now. She's working her way up, she's not crying over spilt milk is she? No, she is still going on, and still is making new songs.

[quote=xbladerFTW]Rebecca Black's Friday has over 40 million views in which she gets paid for. Kim Kardashian is famous for being famous. Money and popularity =/= talent.[/quote]

Do you want a full out explanation? One that you cannot hope to comprehend? Here it is.. (no, it's not copy-paste)

Korean Pop, and most other pop music in general, doesn't focus on only the music or lyrics. There's several "parts" that make a pop artist successful: Catchy music, dance, visualization, electronically produced instrumental, and major melody. You may think the face of kpop is merely terribly written lyrics and overuse of autotune, but that's far from the actual goal of Kpop. Kpop and most other pop is not focused towards making an artistically beautiful impression, but moreso focused towards the art of both seduction and attraction. It's something that combines [i]fashion[/i], dance, and music into one.

Many kpop singers are not actual singers. The face of kpop is not the music, it's the dancing feel. The dancing feel isn't going to appeal to everyone, that part is quite obvious, considering the extremities in cultural differences between different countries. Many groups, such as SNSD and Girl's Day, portray not a sexy style, but a cute style. This "cute style" is extremely popular in Asian countries, where the culture has simply developed in such a way. Many sexual symbols and dances in the US would be considered blasphemy or disgraceful in Asian countries. So if the actual feel of the music itself does not appeal to you, it's quite ignorant to simply mark it as "unthoughtful crap," instead of simply a different culture that you have yet to understand.

A huge aspect of Kpop lies in the dance. The music only serves as the medium for the dance, but the dance feel is what the entire thing is about. Something that makes you correlate your steps to the beat, something that makes you tap your hands or your feet to the beat. But of course, what kind of dance needs to be done in order to attract the customers of Kpop? Of course, this is, again, another cultural divide issue. American pop often uses on-the-spot dancing, where the singer or group dances based on a loose choreography that's open to many changes and variety. Most pop singers get up on stage and simply move to their own liking, without an actual routine. In Asian countries, however, choreography is a very highly regarded aspect. Take a look at traditional dances, a huge driving part of these traditional dances is choreography. As such, creating and being able to pull off the dance is essentially the largest and most important aspect of kpop.

The dance itself is a matter of innovation and art. A dance that needs to be unique enough to be memorable, easy enough for amateurs or fans to copy, but complicated enough to seem professional. It's a completely different genre of dance, but it's still a valid type. You may think songs like Gangnam Style has a very silly dance that really doesn't seem well thought at all, but if you learn the full routine, you'll discover that it's certainly well thought out and actually [i]flows along with the lyrics of the song.[/i] Yes, the song has analytical meaning, and if you watch it carefully, you can create a story from the dance alone.

Of course, fashion and icons are a huge part of the kpop industry as well. Fashion may or may not be an art to you, but the outfits the groups use and the way the present themselves are all carefully planned out, piece by piece.

So basically, the infrastructure of kpop itself uses the main group members, aka, the singers, as the face of the industry. These people are good dancers, and have good stage charisma, and would attract a large audience. They typically create their own dance routines, which is an extremely difficult feat in itself. They don't always write their own music, but they're often credited to it, and that's one of the main reasons that I believe the industry is unfair. You don't see the people who create the outfits, you don't see the people who work day and night to create an instrumental, you don't even consider the back dancers who train all day to be up to par to the primary dancers (aka, the kpop stars), and yet all you focus on is the kpop's music and lyrics. If you don't know the meaning behind the lyrics (and most songs do have meaning, you're just using the worst of the worst as your examples), and if you don't even pay attention to the whole aspect of dance, fashion, and iconism (is that a word?), then you don't even know kpop in general.

And @AresMaestro is right, I don't actually like Kpop, and mostly made this thread as a troll response to a different thread. Whoops, looks like I just fell into Rule 3 or 4.

Don't know any Korean = not listening to any Kpop.

[quote=xbladerFTW]So is someone dumping a bucket of paint on a canvas. Whether the art produced requires talent or not is what's important.[/quote]

The artists do have talent, if they don't why would they be in a KPOP industry, if lady gaga didn't have talent why would she be so rich?

[quote=xbladerFTW]@WorkOfArt:
1. What device do you use to listen to dancing? Oh wait...
2. Being catchy doesn't make something art. It just makes drooling idiots like something.
3. A hooker can be seductive. By your logic, a hooker is art.

Thank you for proving my assumption correct.

@LostMyJob: False stereotypes generally don't make good arguments (just look at the TS's explanation as to why kpop is art). Try again.[/quote]

Music is art, therefore KPOP is art.

[quote=xbladerFTW]@WorkOfArt:
1. What device do you use to listen to dancing? Oh wait...
2. Being catchy doesn't make something art. It just makes drooling idiots like something.
3. A hooker can be seductive. By your logic, a hooker is art.

Thank you for proving my assumption correct.

@LostMyJob: False stereotypes generally don't make good arguments (just look at the TS's explanation as to why kpop is art). Try again.[/quote]

1. Computer, I heard they can like, play videos or something. And real life, I heard like, some people can like, dance to music and like, for reals man
2. Art is subjective.
3. Art of seduction; beauty is art, go search those up.

Question. When you listen to pop music, do you ever pay attention to the instrumental? You do realize that it's art right? Even if it's not to your tastes and even if it's not to your enjoyment, it's art. It's similar to the difference between expressive painting and representational painting.

@WorkOfArt It's you that are in denial. I never said I don't like kpop so your rules are nonsense. Out all the songs that were pump out so far this year, only like 10-20 songs are actually good..

Big Bang's album is good but it wasn't as great as their previous albums.. When was the last time you listen to a song & were like, ah this song is way better than their old songs..

You guys been sippin' on dat HATERADE?

[quote=spring786]Except TS...[/quote]

Just because the TS likes KPOP it does not make her dumb.
Define: dumb - lacking intelligence or unable to speak.

@xbladerFTW
-Dance
-Is Dancing Art
>Yes
-Art.

-Catchiness
-Is catchiness art
>Seduction is art
-Art.

Hallelujah baby!

@fraddBS
@Dendrology
@kennyismybro
@spring786
@Namihika
@myHeartbeat
@lastman28
@DemonsFromSpace
@Kizo
@RoflPandar
@cocobenz
@xbladerFTW
@Chema

These individuals all fall under Rule 3 or Rule 4.

Rule 9: Everything @WorkOfArt says is to be ignored.

These rules are just...no. Just do what we do in the metal world.

Rule 1: Everyone who likes real metal is elite. Everyone who doesn't is a plebian and we laugh at them.
Rules 2-Infinity: Something about what is real metal and what isn't.

Kpop has never been uphill ever. Its terrible and shouldn't exist.

Kpop been going downhill since 2010... They keep pumping out suckier new rookie groups every other month.

kpop is terrible.

if you show too much pride you may start to be ignorant to the fact that people have opinions

basically, s_t_f_u

Oh god the comments.

Edit: I don't get all the hate or the people saying the 'haters' are jealous.
If you like it, then listen to it, no need to flame. And if you don't like it, don't listen to it, or flame it.
Should be pretty simple.

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