General

It seems no one is reading and it just keeps going around in circles.

Yes it's a sin. It's comparable to adultery in a sense that it's lust. [b]Are we told to hate homosexuals? No. Are we told to love them as people? Yes. Are we told to embrace the sin? NOOOOOOO.[/b]

That being said, it doesn't matter how religious you are or how little you believe in God. It doesn't matter how unfair you think the Bible is, or how much you study it each day. [b]It doesn't change the Bible[/b].

This topic is a debate on whether it's a sin or not. It isn't a debate on whether you believe in the bible or religion in general.

Definately NOT. Being Gay is not a sin, everyones just jealous because gays can attract the oppiste sex

[quote=Hadrosaur]i don't believe anything is the cause of the universe[/quote]

So everything is a mere coincidence?

[quote=Hadrosaur]i find it sad that people can't think for themselves and have to blame everything on a "divine being".[/quote]

I FIND IT SAD THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DENIAL blame everything on atoms which "happened" to make everything happen.

Why do you think games have hacks called "god mode"

On a serious note, what do you believe is the cause of the universe, of life, of beautiful scenery, that created two genders, that gave us intelligence, can cause the Earths plates to move, to create a sun etc.?

[quote=Hadrosaur]i said not to bring god into this[/quote]

Replace God with [divine being or force that caused everything to happen]

[quote=Hadrosaur]i said not to bring god into this[/quote]

God is the only semi-legitimate reason somebody could have, unless i'm forgetting something.

Look above.

[quote=SerenadeBass]Because they cannot make babies. If there wasn't an intention for a dispute between love, everything would be singled gendered and capable to breed with one another.[/quote]

Plus, woman came out of man by God's work to become his literal companion. Therefore, woman is supposed to be with man.
God didn't create another man.

[quote=Hadrosaur]please explain to me why you don't believe 2 of the same gender cant have true love for eachother. and don't bring "god's plan" into this kthx.[/quote]

Because they cannot make babies. If there wasn't an intention for a dispute between love, everything would be singled gendered and capable to breed with one another.

[quote=Hadrosaur]please explain to me why you don't believe 2 of the same gender cant have true love for eachother. and don't bring "god's plan" into this kthx.[/quote]

People can have love for each other. Father-son love, brotherly love, master-student respect/love, etc.
The difference is that one has sex involved and one doesn't.

The reasons families and other people freak about about it is because Western culture is embedded with God. So many people reject God, but we all know about Him. We still retain some of His morals.

[quote=RedWolf]It is a struggle until death. It doesn't have to be a problem if you don't make it one.
God warns us about the second death.

At above Deciduous:

Urm, the body itself is not evil. The body is the temple of God. By committing sexually immoral acts, you are "ruining" the temple.[/quote]

kinda missing how your post relates to mine
when you have organizations made of licensed mental health professionals saying ex-gay conversions are harmful to mental health, as well as people who were pushing the movement/went through ex-gay turning around later and saying it's wrong or it doesn't work...that casts a huge doubt on it on multiple levels. i am fine with religions having their negative beliefs about homosexuality, but when it comes to ex-gay i feel that is overstepping a boundary and essentially forcing beliefs on people. even entering ex-gay voluntarily isn't necessarily an indicator that they want it due to how much societal/familial pressure some gays face.

at this point i'm getting personal about it so i guess i'll step back. all i can say objectively i have said already.

[quote=Deciduous]ugh, bringing up ex-gay?
not only are mental health organizations against that stuff, but so are plenty of people who were actually involved in that movement. short of actually "changing" sexual orientation, living a life of self-oppression is mentally unhealthy.[/quote]

It is a struggle until death. It doesn't have to be a problem if you don't make it one.
God warns us about the second death.
I've also noticed today's society is more about lust than love. True love is not there in homosexuality. Timeless love can occur between a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

At the post above Deciduous:

Urm, the body itself is not evil. The body is the temple of God. By committing sexually immoral acts, you are "ruining" the temple.

Christianity isn't about being happy, it's about serving God. How much people do you think slander us every day? How much people want to tempt us to jump out of our rules and run away? How many times are we tempted?

The main part is to resist and obey.

And, by the way, you don't seem to be completely at peace. I have seen you before, here on Basil. I remember you. If homosexuality was really right, then why aren't you at peace?

[quote=RedWolf]People assume homosexuality is permanent. I met a pastor who was homosexual, and got out of the lifestyle after being completely engrossed in it.

Does it help me that I tell myself it is permanent in order to meet God's rules? No. Therefore, I will stop complaining and get rid of my problem. Even if it will never die, I will keep it oppressed.

My parent was involved in sex, drugs, and alcohol. However, he got out of it. His experience has helped me to avoid it, so far in life. Perhaps God gives us pain to warn others.
Perhaps God gave me this so that I could have the experience of being in it to say that, no, it is not permanent and that it can be changed.[/quote]

ugh, bringing up ex-gay?
not only are mental health organizations against that stuff, but so are plenty of people who were actually involved in that movement. short of actually "changing" sexual orientation, living a life of self-oppression is mentally unhealthy.

[quote=Hadrosaur]ss or it didnt happen[/quote]

Would you put your naked picture being gay out on the web?
Plus, it's morally wrong. It's like being a prostitute showing off her body to all that can see.

And, no, I have not acted upon it. I've done a job keeping it within and putting it to death. However, the fact that you think about it or you entertain it is a sin.

Face has obviously not heard of the electromagnetic spectrum.

[quote=Face]We can say the same thing to you. ^3^[/quote]

How so? You're not lying that you believe that God doesn't exist. You're not lying that you believe homosexuality is permanent.
So how does this work?

[quote=Hadrosaur]lying is a beautiful thing, o wait its also a sin so hes still goin to hell[/quote]

Are you saying I'm lying because I'm saying something you don't want to hear?

[quote=ptcmarcus]Yes, acts of homosexuality are sinful. You should ask yourself why a loving kind God would bring you into this world as a homosexual when it is a sin to make Homosexual acts.

Shaving is also a sin...[/quote]

People assume homosexuality is permanent. I met a pastor who was homosexual, and got out of the lifestyle after being completely engrossed in it.

Does it help me that I tell myself it is permanent in order to meet God's rules? No. Therefore, I will stop complaining and get rid of my problem. Even if it will never die, I will keep it oppressed.

My parent was involved in sex, drugs, and alcohol. However, he got out of it. His experience has helped me to avoid it, so far in life. Perhaps God gives us pain to warn others.
Perhaps God gave me this so that I could have the experience of being in it to say that, no, it is not permanent and that it can be changed.

[quote=Face]It made me giggle how you used fortune tellers as an example, considering they use tarrot cards and many other santanic symbols to do their work. (Hail Satan much?) And the other examples you mentioned are all mortal tasks done with tools to aid them. And I can prove gravity exists, whenever I toss something up in the air, it falls done. The difference between gravity and "God", is the fact that you can see gravity happen, God and his works can only be explained through poetic theory's and wishful thinking of a higher being watching over us, duuuurrr. And if you're talking about waves in the Ocean, you can see them, feel them, and hear them. GOODNESS. And you just contradicted yourself, please tell me how "God" came to be? I'm ever so curious gUrlphran! And I didn't mention all 10 of them, I simply mentioned the 10 commandments alone, just because I only mentioned that doesn't mean I'm un-aware of them being written in the Bible. And stop swaying away with the whole 'citizen' crap. You don't need a book to tell you right from wrong. Or tell you that your life has purpose, all life has purpose, you just need to find it on your own. And you're pretty much giving me the OK to go out and kill a girl? o__o that's not very Christian of you.[/quote]

Did you even read my post? Sheesh.
The reason he gave us a book is because we can't figure it out by ourselves.
And think, since you're so high above us, like a god, and if you were talking to middle-schoolers, would you like to explain the fine intricacies about climate change, global warming, homosexuality, aliens, etc.? No, not all of it. So, God gives us what we need. What we need is humbling, saving, and forgiveness.

[quote=Shroomsly]Depends on the religion, matey... Say, if you were in the People's Temple, I could see reason to disagree. However, that's just me being a tasteless smartass.[/quote]

i'm not sure if it's bad or not, but i never have considered cults as religions
just weird groups

@Face

Here is my page for answering questions: [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1776164/1/Questions_on_ProtestantChristianity.html#]Questions on Protestant-Christianity[/url]

Think about it. Since Adam and Eve were enlightened through the fruit that allowed them to think and know good and evil, they now knew about evil. And, through their blood, all of us has been affected.

You are very arrogant. Our challenge is to try to argue with people with hopes that it might help them understand and come to know God.
We need more faith to believe in God because we cannot see him. We only see the effects. Just like quarks and gravity, all you see are the effects. Some aren't just looking for it.

We do not give the death penalty today, right? Surprising, your argument about the stoning was in the book. The Jews tried to stone a woman for adultery in order to criticize Jesus. He then said, "the one who is without sin may stone her first."

Yes. We have no right to condemn other people because we are all sinners.

I'm amazed about the connection from the early world to now... -you are using the same argument that God has already dealt with. Strange, but interesting.

[quote=Face]So like, we're "Free" but we can only do this? If we were truly 'free' we would be able to do more than simple mortal tasks, I thought we were "Created in his image"? Don't compare this to being citizen, there are far too many differences. And your idea of 'love' worries me, did you even read what "Ph33rm3Plox" said? (Sorry if I spelled his ID wrong). That's like punishing a person with down syndrome for something they didn't want. (Not that I'm comparing being gay to down syndrome). Oh, and since you can't prove that he exists, by default that really does make him your imaginary friend.

Oh, and your religion is based around a book written by stone age farmers in a very dark and deluded era where religion ruled and logical thinking was frowned upon, I'd say that's pretty damn silly IMO. And I never said there weren't any other rules, you silly person. And right now I want to slap you for saying it would be 'OK' for me to go stone a Woman to death simply because she lost her virginity before marriage, and how you didn't even bother putting up a fight against that statement... And this is an open debate regarding a religion where all is welcome, I think I'll be enjoying my stay here.[/quote]

You're "free" in the sense that you are not in a straightjacket preventing you from doing something. Yeah we were created in his image, hence why we would look like him. But we all know looks can be deceiving. Just because we look alike, doesn't mean we're as capable. And we have been able to do more than simple mortal tasks. Look at the people we have out there, miracle healers, fortune tellers, hell even surgeons. Why can I not compare with being a citizen, its the same context. Since you cannot prove that gravity exists, by default its not real? Since we cannot prove that there is another universe out there it does not exist? Since there was a time where we could not prove the existence of waves which cannot be humanly detected, they do not exist either correct?

And you're saying that it is less silly for you to believe that the universe just came to be? You did not say there weren't any other rules, but you mentioned 10 of them and stated that since it wasn't in the 10 it wasn't wrong. I'm sorry but there is nothing about Genocide being illegal in the book of family law, thus genocide is legal? I didn't say it was okay, I just said that you can go for it,if for whatever reason your ego is telling you that you're superior to her.

Divorces occur due to incompatibilities or insecurities in marriages such as those which involve pre-marital sex. This provides evidence that it does more harm than it helps.

[quote=Face]Respect? respect for what? respecting the fact that this "God" made us simply to suffer and go through pointless 'trials' just so he prove some point? That's like keeping a fighter slave (Much like the movie "Unleashed&quot And telling them that they're only purpose in life is to fight for the cause of a superior that doesn't even love us back? (Not like your "God" tucks you in every night and tells you that he loves you). And to your whole; "If I don't study my kids will starve!" That's why you at least make the effort to wear condoms, that wasn't the best figurative speech for you to choose. Can you honestly say that homosexuality somehow hurts others? it's just love, get over it.

And look back at many historic events, can you say religion has somehow benefited the world? That Muslim extremeist are somehow justified? That the crusades were a higher act of God's 'love'? That the West Boro Baptist church are holy messengers sent from the Heavens? It may bring people closer, but at what cost? No matter how you sugar coat it, there isn't a single religion that doesn't hate, doesn't spread some sort of fear, and hasn't been used as some form of weapon, or to be used a brainwashing tool, or simply to control other people for the most silly of reasons. And why haven't YOU donated to the starving children? I'm going to assume that you don't because it's fun to assume things, kind of like how you ASSUMED I never have. And no, I've never once had a twisted wish, dream, or idea. Whenever someone asks me if I had 3 wishes, or found a Genie in a bottle, or a wish granting star, or even a birthday candle, the only wish I could ever think of is world peace, love, no more wars, no more pointless deaths. You may say I'm a dreamer, But I'm not the only one. (A tad cliche, yes. but you get my point).[/quote]

Yes respect for God who gave us trials to prove a point. God has shown me love in ways beyond comprehension, miracles which cannot be scientifically explained. Have you ever been to a location where the scenery is just so beautiful, it wouldn't be the same in a picture. Now tell me honestly that this all happened in coincidence without a divine being creating it, that it just all happened on the accord of two atoms? Well, if I have a kid that I can support ALBEIT not happily [like many families] I can have one can't I?

The extremist attacks and crusades had a reason behind it. Im not saying that it was right nor am I saying that its wrong. But maybe it is from God's love. God flooded the world once because he saw that we will kill each other and could not bare to see us do it so he did it for us. Does it matter if religion is brainwashing? People living a lifestyle where they follow the commandments will lead them better than when they have no restrictions placed upon them. I assure you that. I have donated to charities but I do not use third world issues as my defense against religion. Why would I delve into third world countries, when the very surroundings of me are in need of help.
My neigbourhood is troubled beyond my kill, taking my issues to another country is just overkill.
Enlighten me as to what a pointless death may be.

[quote=Deciduous]But again, you are definitely right on religion as a positive uniting factor, and as an open and accepting type of group it contributes to lower suicide rates.[/quote]

Depends on the religion, matey... Say, if you were in the People's Temple, I could see reason to disagree. However, that's just me being a tasteless smartass.

[quote=SerenadeBass]Yes I believe that. Its not a matter of being a cheerleader, more like showing respect. And yes, because one person sinned, another person will suffer. Yes, I believe all of that. Lets look at it another way. Imagine that I decide to stop studying and my grades deteriorate. In the future, I live a hard minimum wage lifestyle and I have kids to feed. Why is it that my actions have caused my kids to live an unhappy, unfulfilled lifestyle? And due to lack of money, they couldn't get proper education and so on and so forth. My actions have caused others to suffer.

I disagree with that claim. Religion in contemporary times united people closer, till recent times where people for one reason or another decided to have nothing to do with religion. And look what happens. As secularism increases, so does corruption in the world. If humans were so superior, why cannot we comprehend God's plans? If you're rich enough to afford internet, why haven't you contributed to African kids wondering around? Tell me honestly that you have had a dream/wish which wasn't selfish or twisted in one way or another. Yes, parents sin, children WILL suffer. You can see it already. Depletion of resources, poaching, pollution,etc. Why do my kids have to suffer for what my parents have done?[/quote]

Just two things:

Totally agree with what you're saying about actions affecting others. I think the issue that comes up with the Eden situation is that God decided to punish all humans for a past sin of two people. It's fairly different from one generation's life failure affecting the next.

The second point being secularism and corruption aren't so much related as humanity and corruption are. As a religious person you may see it through a lens that connects secularism to what's wrong with the world, but there's been just as much corruption involved with religion as anything else and that's been true for centuries. But again, you are definitely right on religion as a positive uniting factor, and as an open and accepting type of group it contributes to lower suicide rates.

[quote=Face]I've said it before, I'll say it again: Do you really believe a being powerful, and complex enough to create the entire universe would be childish enough to condemn his people to eternal suffering simply because they refused to be his cheerleaders? Or because Eve ate a fruit? And to let his people continue to suffer in pain and misery, fear and doubts, through all the hardships, all the losses, and all the tears, just so he can fulfill a prophecy? That's not a God, that's a kid sitting outside in his backyard burning ants with his magnifying class. And read what ph33rm3Plox said back in the previous page. And homosexuality is NOT adultery, it's between two people that love each other, sometimes not. Same for many straight people. 78% of the worlds sex offenders are straight.

Religion pushes people away from each other more than it brings them together. And if "God" is so damn 'forgiving', Why is it he can't cure cancer? Why can't he save a starving child wandering around Africa after loosing it's family? Why can't we just raise our hands and let our dreams come true for a better future? oh wait... that's right... it's because "Eve" made a mistake and we have to suffer for it.[/quote]

Yes I believe that. Its not a matter of being a cheerleader, more like showing respect. And yes, because one person sinned, another person will suffer. Yes, I believe all of that. Lets look at it another way. Imagine that I decide to stop studying and my grades deteriorate. In the future, I live a hard minimum wage lifestyle and I have kids to feed. Why is it that my actions have caused my kids to live an unhappy, unfulfilled lifestyle? And due to lack of money, they couldn't get proper education and so on and so forth. My actions have caused others to suffer.

I disagree with that claim. Religion in contemporary times united people closer, till recent times where people for one reason or another decided to have nothing to do with religion. And look what happens. As secularism increases, so does corruption in the world. If humans were so superior, why cannot we comprehend God's plans? If you're rich enough to afford internet, why haven't you contributed to African kids wondering around? Tell me honestly that you have had a dream/wish which wasn't selfish or twisted in one way or another. Yes, parents sin, children WILL suffer. You can see it already. Depletion of resources, poaching, pollution,etc. Why do my kids have to suffer for what my parents have done?

[quote=Face]Do you really think that "God" would love you for hating? Or hate you for loving? Right now the only thing to prove that your imaginary friend exists, is the fact that you can't prove his existence to begin with. As posted by the more educated Basilers, I don't think that A "God" would make his people born a certain way and punish them for it for no real reason, since you're such a Jesus freak, tell me this; Why does 'God' randomly pick people to torment with more 'trials' than others? I thought 'God' loved us all equally? And can you also explain to me as to why this appears to be the only negative rule in the Bible people seem to notice? And last I checked the old testament is supposed to be ignored in modern times? Well, if we're going to be paying attention to it's rules, I say we go around stoning Women that lost their virginity before marriage, to death. Let's go around enslaving people and making them have incest sex for our pleasure. Because obviously we need to bring up silly, pointless, biased, and illogical rules that aren't even mentioned in the 10 commandments, right?[/quote]

Funny you bring that up in a topic that is as simple as "Is homosexuality something God told us not to do?" and it is beyond evident that it is. Hate is not something God does, he loves us all. And if you're going to call him my imaginary friend in a topic which bases itself around him, I suggest you leave. God did not punish them for no real reason. He gave us freedom, we're free to do what we want. Just like how I as a citizen am free to do what I want. However, there are punishments if what I do conflicts with the law set by the government. Similarly, people will be punished for committing a sin which God set. God can love us all equally, and test our faith differently, just as your parents loves all their children equally but that does not mean that they'll treat them all the same. If you wish to stone women who lost their virginity before marriage, by all means go ahead. But in a case where two people are equal, one cannot punish the other. Similarly, I cannot execute another citizen who has broken a law, for we are on level grounds. Thus, only God can judge and punish people.

Tell me how this is silly or biased or illogical.
Your ignorance is astounding when you say 10 commandments. There are far more rules than that in the bible.

[quote=Face]Do you really think that "God" would love you for hating? Or hate you for loving? Right now the only thing to prove that your imaginary friend exists, is the fact that you can't prove his existence to begin with. As posted by the more educated Basilers, I don't think that A "God" would make his people born a certain way and punish them for it for no real reason, since you're such a Jesus freak, tell me this; Why does 'God' randomly pick people to torment with more 'trials' than others? I thought 'God' loved us all equally? And can you also explain to me as to why this appears to be the only negative rule in the Bible people seem to notice? And last I checked the old testament is supposed to be ignored in modern times? Well, if we're going to be paying attention to it's rules, I say we go around stoning Women that lost their virginity before marriage, to death. Let's go around enslaving people and making them have incest sex for our pleasure. Because obviously we need to bring up silly, pointless, biased, and illogical rules that aren't even mentioned in the 10 commandments, right?[/quote]

Well, the one of the commandments is to not commit adultery. Homosexuality is defined as sexual immorality.

By the way, there is a story about a man who had almost unbearable suffering and survived with his faith to God. Job. God got an offer from the devil to test Job to see if his faith could break. After all, Satan wants to pull people away from God. As prince of the world, he tries to do this (adultery is rampant nowdays). God is confident that Job's faith wouldn't break. And it didn't. His wealth, family, land, and livestock got taken away. Additionally, he developed painful boils all over his body. The point is, God used his life to prove that the Devil was wrong.

And then, God rewarded Job with all of his previous riches and more.
The point is, you do not see families bragging that they are gay. Being gay is still a shame, and it is not supported by God. Sexual immorality isn't and never will be a good thing. God can forgive, though. That is, if you want it and ask for it.

Think about it. God is the Father, and a father. He is the father of this world. Now, we are his children. We don't acknowledge he exists. Well...
He gave us free will from the start. The first choice was to obey or disobey God. Because we disobeyed him, we were bestowed with the curse of knowing right and wrong, ("Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil&quot and therefore, we were cast out because we had been infected with sin.

Therefore, sin came in through disobedience.

We Christians are not supposed to hate. We may be frustrated with those that do not listen to us and remain ignorant, but we should never shut our doors. The basis of Christianity is God, His law and word, and His love. His love is the most important, but we are not allowed to adapt to the world. The reason is that Satan is the prince of this world, and therefore, he influences the world.

Literally, in our eyes, all who reject God are going to Hell. Now, because we love because God loved us, we will try to save people. God cared for us, and therefore, we are to care for each other.

[quote=Dude2847]That sounds pretty unfair. So much for a "just" god. He makes all these people imperfectly, which makes them act up. Then he all flips out and threatens to send them to hell for eternity if they don't conform to his ridiculous standards. But at the same time he loves them to the greatest possible extent.

Also, how can someone feel pain in hell if their nervous systems dies along with their body?[/quote]

It would be like giving life imprisonment to any crime disregarding the severity. Yes, it would probably be unfair, but if you don't do the crime, you don't do the time. So for the people who don't commit crime, they have nothing to be worried about. Similarly, God gave us the choice to repent our sins on top of our free pass to avoid this "unjust punishment". It really is just, you sinned, you suffer.

Think of it this way. If you have no intention of committing a crime, the severity of the punishment will not matter to you. If it does matter, it obviously means you have intentions of committing the crime.

[quote=ph33rm3pl0x]Dude, don't be an idiot. I'm a HUGE gay hater, but i know for a fact that the legit Gay people don't have a choice.
It's a proven fact that homosexuality is a brain error. It could be anything from denatured neuro-proteins to an irregularity in hypothalamic, or petuitary secretions.

The most recent study and examination of 500 homosexuals showed the Gay males have the brain shape of a female, and Gay females have the brain shape of a male.

I'd say that people who 'choose' to be gay are the sinners; the ones who are biologically gay are the victims of genetic mutations.[/quote]

What about those single men who are heterosexual. They had no choice to be straight,but they had the choice not to act on it. Just like homosexuality.

[quote=Drynk]That's right guys . Keep arguing . There's never going to be a winner . No one is ever going to change the other person's mind . "Is being gay a sin ?" There's really no direct answer to that . Both sides are a-holes who aren't willing to give up for any positivity or negativity .[/quote]

Thats like saying there is no direct answer to whether or not murder is a crime.

Is being gay a sin? Yes and irrefutable.
Is being gay wrong? Subjective, but I say yes.
Is being gay a choice? Subjective, but I say yes.
Is being gay some form of birth defect? Subjective, but I say no.

[quote=Dude2847]So if I were to kill someone it would be the equivalent of stealing a box of cereal?[/quote]

The only sentence given is 'eternity in hell"
So, one is spending eternity in hell, and the other is spending 3 eternities in hell. By definition 3 eternities and 1 eternity is the same thing.

@SerenadeBass: That was what I said.
You said:
[quote=SerenadeBass] Actually temptation is a sin. [/quote]
Now you are changing your stand I see.

[quote=j0s3a4d]@SerenadeBass: Being tempted is not a sin. Jesus was tempted, and he never sinned.[/quote]

Being tempted isn't a sin, but giving into temptation is.

@SerenadeBass: Being tempted is not a sin. Jesus was tempted, and he never sinned.

Can I have yippe-yi-yay? Sin is sin. You do it everyday anyways, no matter what.

[quote=demonchaos]Honestly, in my opinion gay people are as cool as anyone else in my book. As long as you don't come up to me and hit on me. But on topic, I googled "being gay a sin?" and got a bunch of sites saying that it is in the catholic religion. And to me, religion is pointless, I still believe that people have souls and that there is no God that makes us think any of this stuff. I think that people only are afraid of the fact that people like the same gender and can't help that fact. And to me if you honestly don't know yourself enough to bring feelings out in the open then maybe you don't deserve to be who you are. And the fact that government (in the united states) are still being governed by laws of religion is ridiculous. I honestly believe that anyone should do whatever they want with their own state of mind without being judged by others. Sadly, society doesn't allow this without being ridiculed by others and no matter what we do it'll take time in order for people to fully accept homosexuality.[/quote]

Calling religion pointless is ignorance. Its like saying being part of any club/team/group/association is pointless. And yes I agree with your statement. If you're going to suicide because people flame on your sexuality, then maybe its giving us a reason to persecute you. However, I do not agree that anybody could do whatever they want without being judged. For all I care, thievery should be legalized. I should be able to steal without being judged. Being more cunning then the person that I stole from right?

[quote=Zora]Christians can believe and interpret whatever and however they want in the bible if they feel like their religious values are worth more than their sexual orientation. However, they should respect those who are gay/lesbian/etc...and let them have their freedom. I mean just because you're religious doesn't mean you should discourage others or force them to agree with you. As for gay marriages, it really depends on what the country as a whole thinks about them. Two males who truly love each other have more than the right to be together than a married couple who hate each other. People these days are more accepting and you just have to live up to our generation and accept it as well.

[url=http://www.givesmehope.com/view/GMH/76319?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter]Oh and this makes me awwe.[/url][/quote]

And people should respect criminals and let them have their freedom. Just because you're a law abiding citizen, doesn't mean you should discourage others or force them to agree with you right?

[quote=j0s3a4d]This wasn't meant to be a thread on whether the Bible is right or not.
The TS asked if being gay is considered a sin in the Bible.
Having sexual intercourse with a person of your same sex according to the Bile is a sin, but I don't see why would want to do it be a sin.
Temptation is not a sin, therefore if I am tempted to lie but do not lie I did not sinned. Same goes for homosexual activities, acting on it and being tempted to do it are two different things.[/quote]

Actually temptation is a sin. Hence why its a line in The Lords Prayer. Being tempted to do something and not doing it is by all means not a sin. But contemplating to do it on your own accord is as good as doing it.

[quote=sonikuboy]If only there were more religious people that were respectful and kept their dislikes to themselves.

Too many people these days all like YOU'RE GOING TO HELL FOR THIS.[/quote]

I was under the impression that it was older people who looked down upon on this.

[quote=Marc19X9]Things the bible allows you to do:
1) Stone your wife
2) Sell your daughter
3) Marry your cousin

The bible also says you should have dealings with women on their period or eat seafood. There is also a huge list of foods in the old testament that you shouldn't eat. The bible says a lot of things are sins that people do these days anyway. There are things the bible said you should do that no one does.

Here's the thing, God has better things to worry about. God wants you to love your neighbor. He wants you to be a good person. He wants you to believe in Jesus. Whether its a sin or not, God will love that person.

I am still not even sure how much of the bible to believe, but I do believe in God and Jesus.[/quote]

There is no such thing as "better things to worry about". All sins are of equal value to God.

This wasn't meant to be a thread on whether the Bible is right or not.
The TS asked if being gay is considered a sin in the Bible.
Having sexual intercourse with a person of your same sex according to the Bile is a sin, but I don't see why would want to do it be a sin.
Temptation is not a sin, therefore if I am tempted to lie but do not lie I did not sinned. Same goes for homosexual activities, acting on it and being tempted to do it are two different things.

Honestly, in my opinion gay people are as cool as anyone else in my book. As long as you don't come up to me and hit on me. But on topic, I googled "being gay a sin?" and got a bunch of sites saying that it is in the catholic religion. And to me, religion is pointless, I still believe that people have souls and that there is no God that makes us think any of this stuff. I think that people only are afraid of the fact that people like the same gender and can't help that fact. And to me if you honestly don't know yourself enough to bring feelings out in the open then maybe you don't deserve to be who you are. And the fact that government (in the united states) are still being governed by laws of religion is ridiculous. I honestly believe that anyone should do whatever they want with their own state of mind without being judged by others. Sadly, society doesn't allow this without being ridiculed by others and no matter what we do it'll take time in order for people to fully accept homosexuality.

[quote=guydudeasian]To liberal Christians (like me), No. To hardcore conservative Christians, Yes (They're are exceptions to conservatives).[/quote]

Being liberal or conservative doesn't change the bible.

[quote=SerenadeBass][b]An idle mind is the devils workshop.[/b] If you can contribute to society, you should.
Yes, I'd assume that was marriage is for. Most people look down upon adultery anyway
Read above.
Yeah, they can't.

What else could a women be?
No.
No.
No.[/quote]
I have no idea what are you trying to say
Using an improper punctuation makes the sharp meaning of your ideas into random sentences
I could only understand the bolded sentence, and I can assure blaming your so-called-devil for our own mistakes won't get us anywhere

[quote=guydudeasian]To liberal Christians (like me), No. To hardcore conservative Christians, Yes (They're are exceptions to conservatives).[/quote]

This is what I believe.

[quote=inugami92]chirstian are seriously just a organized hate mob[/quote]

You represent what is wrong with the world today. You can't seem to get out of your bubble.

[quote=Beginnered]In the Jewish Religion, it's a sin.
But IDC. Being gay isn't a sin IMO. And should be everyone's opinion.. x_x[/quote]

I don't think thievery should be a crime.
Crimes aren't set by us, just like how sins aren't set by us

[quote=ruby123]Well it is considerd a sin. HOWEVER ,
These days people commit 'sins' beyond belief.
So not sinning basically means nothing.
It's okay to find the same gender attractive.
Even if you don't do anything h0m0sexual, or think it, You'll still probably commit what some fanatics may refer to as a sin.[/quote]

People these days also commit crimes beyond belief. So not committing a crime means nothing as well right?

[quote=bumberu]It is not.[/quote]

Learn what sin means. Then read the bible.

[quote=iSpiffster]But that's twisting the words to fit what you what's convenient for ya
Mothers are women, yes, but the idea of a mother =/= that of a woman.[/quote]

Then enlighten us, on what the idea of mother is.

[quote=Chema]According to the bible:

A man can't be jobless
A man can't desire "another" woman
A man can't commit adultery
A man can't be homosexual

A woman MUST be either married or a nun
A woman can desire "another" man/woman
A woman can commit adultery
A woman can be homosexual[/quote]

An idle mind is the devils workshop. If you can contribute to society, you should.
Yes, I'd assume that was marriage is for. Most people look down upon adultery anyway
Read above.
Yeah, they can't.

What else could a women be?
No.
No.
No.

[quote=theNorm]I don't think It's a sin, simply because it's not a choice. If it's something that is a part of who you are, then being religious you'd have to believe that God made you, so it begs the question: Why would God make something he hates? "Oh dammit I made another Gay Guy! I hate those... I need to stop drinking so much..." Humor aside, it just doesn't make sense.[/quote]

Again, I don't think thievery is a sin. A sin isn't what we perceive, its what God said. Everything you do is a choice. God doesn't hate, God judges. God gave us free choice, but he judges us. Its like saying the person who invented the computer "Oh dammit, I made another hacker, and a family who is now homeless because someone committed fraud and stole his money online".

@CeruleanMuse:

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
What about mental retardation? Is that not a mutation? (Technically, we shouldn't be calling anyone mutants...) If they don't display physical abnormalities, but mental ones, does that not count as a mutation? Are autistic people, who look morphologically the same as we do, but behave in erratic ways, always considered "normal"? Unfortunately not, they're still bullied for being "retards" and "abnormal" aren't they? Mutations do happen all the time, but the only reason they're still in the gene pool is because society has acted in a way that would enable it to continue happening, inbreeding, mutagens, pollution, carcinogens, whatever.[/quote]

I don't get your point regarding this? I'm not saying they're not "mutants" or anything, my basic point was to explain why we don't call them mutants and to point out that mutations aren't rare.

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
Regardless of whether you think it's a choice or a gene, you're still not treating them as people, but as something to argue about[/quote]

What? I'm arguing about religious people, politicians,scientists and a lot of other people all the time. That I argue about some group doesn't make them less "people"(Although politicians aren't people xD).

[Quote=CeruleanMuse]
we do not have the right to treat them as anything other than people at all[/quote]

I do thought have the right to talk about them as I like.

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
If they wanted something, wouldn't they stick to it? [/quote]

Yes, but if you want guys already, then it is not a choice.

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
Like with religion, the person's religious [b]conviction[/b] could be strong enough to die for, as martyrs do.[/quote]

Bolded part is important. Religion is something your convinced of, not something you *just* choose.

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
As for your second point, what advantage does the allele for being gay give?[/quote]

I've heard that siblings of gays should have a greater fertility rate, they have better sperm. You know, genes can do more than one thing. Thus meaning that those with higher rate of "gay genes" would reproduce more. The thing is though, that the genes doesn't make you gay or not, there is different degree's of it, and the degrees of it will always fluctuate therefore gays will most likely stay.

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
"Should" show? What do you mean should show? Do they show or not? If not, how is that at all relevant? [/quote]

Sorry, I'm not so good at English so mistakes like that will occur from time to time. It did show.

[quote=CeruleanMuse]
So you can't. Course you can't prove that it's not, but I never said you could. I just pointed out the flaw in the argument of whoever I was responding to.[/quote]

I only made it clear because I'm used to playing with semantics against YEC's, so I always try to be as correct as possible, both in wording and the philosophy of it. But there is very good reasons to think that it isn't a choice, that's the only thing I actually want to argue for.

[quote=MaikuX3]The fact that you don't want answers from anyone that is Non-Christian, you already proved his point. You only want biased answers your own side and not from those of other beliefs...theistic or not. Which is pretty much implying that you do not care what so ever about what people of other views thinks, especially if they don't believe in your faith. And as non-Christian theist that does not see homosexuality as an act against a higher supernatural being, I feel offended that you only want answers from those of your own religion rather than those of others. Thats indeed ignorance right there. I would appreciate your honesty alot more than your backing out when it comes to this topic.

And to the thread itself, the fact that one third of Christians are saying its is a sin to think about it, another third of Christians are saying it only a sin to act on it, and the other third of Christians are saying its not a sin whatsoever, I think the point has been made. [b]There is no right or wrong way to interpret the Bible, Torah, Quran, Eightfold Path, or any other religious book.[/b][/quote]

I never said I don't want any non-Christians to answer. I said this question was not asked to atheists because they don't believe in God, and thus, they don't believe that there is sin.

in my opinion:

growing up with a christian family i was told it was immoral, wrong, don't do it. anything to do with it can be a sin if it triggers applicable homosexuality in that person who's deeming a sin's eyes.

while i don't really care, i believe a person has the right to choose, and I'm not going to be all up in someone's business anyways, its just not my style, i don't think it's polite, wouldn't want that happening to me. so people, do whatever you wanna do, i don't care because i won't stop you anyways!

but i am a serious advocate of evolution and keeping the human race alive so it can evolve into a more advanced society, and while the prejudice that the homosexuality of today is fighting and breaking is in some cases good for society, but i believe in procreation, and that we need to be smarter and stop fighting each other; homosexuality stifles procreation in certain ways, that's my only beef, but its just me.

[quote=CowWhiskahs]Fixed.[/quote]
Bible says nothing about women
other than being mere objects available to men

[quote=CowWhiskahs]Not sinning basically means nothing to humans but what does it mean to God?
But dont act upon it.
Everyone commits sins but homosexuality is avoidable.[/quote]

So is 'Sinning'.
I find it to be extremly disgusting when people talk about how it is a sin.
Then friday night they go out and commit a whole lots of sins. And I'm not refering to sexual acts.
You CAN avoid sinning. You just don't want to.

Comitting sins is a choice.

Well it is considerd a sin. HOWEVER ,
These days people commit 'sins' beyond belief.
So not sinning basically means nothing.
It's okay to find the same gender attractive.
Even if you don't do anything h0m0sexual, or think it, You'll still probably commit what some fanatics may refer to as a sin.

According to the bible:

A man can't be jobless
A man can't desire "another" woman
A man can't commit adultery
A man can't be homosexual

A woman MUST be either married or a nun
A woman can desire "another" man/woman
A woman can commit adultery
A woman can be homosexual

[quote=gath]Atheists dont believe in God. Why would I ask them if they think it's a sin when they don't even believe God exists? I want a real debate between people who agree with different interpretations of the Bible, not those who don't believe it.[/quote]

Because sin means an act against God.

If the question were "Is being gay wrong" then it would be a different story.
But since it isn't, its a matter of whether or not its against God