basilmarket

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Reply December 26, 2012

[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2565467]Once again I am plugging my guide in progress.[/url] This and bluebomber's post should clear up everything.

Reply December 26, 2012

twopointonefour

To get SP for your Hyper Skills, all you have to do is level up! Every 10 levels from 140 to 200, you'll get specific SP for each of your tabs. They total to 6 S SP, 5 P SP, and 3 A SP. - From Orangemushroomblog

Should answer some questions.

Reply December 26, 2012 - edited

ralphiee

@twopointonefour: Ok thanks for the help

Reply December 23, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

[quote=archusz]what different hyper skill huriicane-walking with wild arrow blast + jaguar?[/quote]

I believe it acts like Phantoms Mille (forgot the full name) skill where your speed is lowered to compensate for being able to move. Wild Hunters don't have that I believe.

Reply December 20, 2012 - edited

archusz

what different hyper skill huriicane-walking with wild arrow blast + jaguar?

Reply December 20, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

[quote=ralphiee]I am lvl. 140 but I didn't get hyperskill. What did I do wrong ?[/quote]

Hyper skills aren't available for Adventurers currently. Only Kaiser, Angelic Buster and the 5 heros.

Reply December 19, 2012 - edited

SillyBox

[quote=bluebomber24]Hm...I personally don't think a guide is neccesary....unless you REALLY don't know what your doing...which for some poeple that actually may be true...>_>. With Hyperskills, you get set points that you can use at certain levels and have the ability to reset. At times, your forced to put points in a skill and reset it later if you are under level 195. You can't guide someone when they have no choice

the only hard part is what you will give up. Which isn't hard...its just the hardest thing about hyperskills. Heres a snippet I have though, because I store way too much data about maple -_-:

For Stat Increases, if you have max speed, max jump, not stupid and pick Hyper Skills LUCK/INT, you will be able to have the following passive skills at level 200 for optimal DPM/survival:

Heart Point- HP 15%
Critical Rate-Crit 10%
Strength-Str 50
Dexterity-Dex 50
Physical Guard-PDef 500
Magical Guard-MDef 500

For the Attack/buff skills (Epic Adventurer, Wind of Frey, Preparation) When you receive the points at the appropiately level you can use them. There is nothing to sacrifice, you just have to get to the righ tlevel.

For the passive skills, I am just going to post something I already did in another thread as that is slightly harder choice:

Based on the non-hyperskill buffs to Phoenix and Inferno I personally consider the follwing mandatory:

[*]Phoenix - Reinforce
[*]Phoenix - Bonus Attack
[*]Ultimate Flame Shot - Reinforce

Putting points in those actually makes us VERY VERY good Archer mobbers for a change, don't pass up Nexon's gifts, they don't come often. That leaves you with 2 points. Which I can't decide for you.

[*] Phoenix - Persist, There are plenty of ways to circumvent such as Pirate cards and Perma Auto-Buff Pet equip (I think). It still has an indirect impact on DPM, albeit small due to Phoenix's already decently long summon time. And if you don't want Pirate cards or don't have the auto-buff it can mitigate the annoyance of recasting.

[*] Ultimate Flame Shot - DoT Persist, I don't get this, As long as your still facing the mob you can reset the DoT. I don't think BMs Inferno mobs and then go do something else...but who knows, maybe there is some other benefit I am not seeing. However in big mobs that move around it could be marginally helpful.

[*] Ultimate Flame Shot - DoT Reinforce, This will increase your mobbing by bit, assuming you are fighting monsters like the ones at Azwan. It accounts for a 7% increase in mobbing DPM if you are using WoF.

[*] Hurricane - Add Range, it will let you hit a couple of steps farther.

[*] Hurricane - Moveable Shot, Because its cool.....and on maps where you move alot, like ToT, your "actual" DPM will be nominally higher.

[*] Hurricane - Split Damage, IF and only IF you will scratch the damage cap will this be beneficial. If you won't don't put points in this skill.

Basically, it depends on wheter you want to completely optimize your mobbing and/or increase your characters indirect utilities. Outside of Hurricane Split Damage and Inferno Persist DoT, the remaining above points most likely contribute about 1% or less to your DPM depending on the situation. So it doesn't matter which you choose, pick the one that you feel will make the game fun/efficient for you.

In other words, if you want your Hurricane and AFA to indirectly be around 2% higher(guesstimating here) efficiency on maps where you have to move around and use 1v1. Movable shot and Add range are yours to choose.

If you want an extra 8% or so in mobbing, DoT Reinforce/Persist is what you should aim for.

If you want accommodation for your playstyle, Phoenix Persist and Split Damage are the way the go.

Or mix them up or pick the skills for qualitative reasons and not quantitative.

@Vyncent: Its a forum, people ask questions. Imo, anything is better than Bow or Xbow Sometimes its difficult for some people to look through various information.

[b]Edit: Made changes to Inferno Persist DoT, for somehow I did the comparative wrong...knew something was odd about it[/b][/quote]

I just want to have the longest quote.

Reply December 19, 2012 - edited

ralphiee

I am lvl. 140 but I didn't get hyperskill. What did I do wrong ?

Reply December 19, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

@bowmushro0m: Well damage decreases/increases in general because of the skills % damage regardless. Jeez, they're really making this like the old Double Shot or Arrow Blow arguments.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

bowmushro0m

[quote=twopointonefour]@bluebomber24 I'm pretty sure it has it's own seperate crit chance. From seeing videos of the skill in action it appears that each hit can critical individually. But yeah.. It does equal the same damage in the end doesn't it?[/quote]

._. this is age old, and has been a problem since mercedes was introduced. split hurricane is..a gray area. for most of the players, it's useless.
but for a few of us, it's the only thing worth getting in hyperskills. you have to keep in mind how irritating it can be to be dojoing as fast as possible, and still only amount to rank 3-7 strictly because it's not possible to keep up with the extra dps that an over-funded mercedes can.

but critical chance is the same no matter what- to simplify it, let's say you have a 50% critical rate, with 1.5x critical damage. 1x cane is 240% (just for this example) 2x is 120%, your constant damage is 100k with regular shots. so let's use..a base of 10 shots. again, this is all just to keep things simple and easy to follow.
with 1x hurricane and 10 shots, you would get 5 criticals, and 5 noncriticals so 5 shots would add up to 240k each, and 5 would add up to 360k. adding those together you get a total of 3,000,000 total damage in 10 shots.

so let's take the double hurricane, (20 shots) 10 of them would be 120k (1.2mil) and 10 would be 180k (120k x1.5) (1.8mil) which adds up to 3mil ._. sorry if that's annoying to follow but you get the gist.

critical chance does increase, but critical damage would decrease because it's proportional with the damage of the arrow

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

TheMagi

[quote=twopointonefour]@bluebomber24 I'm pretty sure it has it's own seperate crit chance. From seeing videos of the skill in action it appears that each hit can critical individually. But yeah.. It does equal the same damage in the end doesn't it?[/quote]

He never said they weren't separate critical hits, however because of criticals being Multiplicative you are correct in it literally having no effect.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

@bluebomber24 I'm pretty sure it has it's own seperate crit chance. From seeing videos of the skill in action it appears that each hit can critical individually. But yeah.. It does equal the same damage in the end doesn't it?

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

bluebomber24

@twopointonefour: Crits are multiplicative not additive.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

[quote=bluebomber24] If that's how you would go about it, yes.

Edit: Split Hurricane does not get an extra critical chance. I believe that was mentioned by some people in this thread.[/quote]

Why would it not..? Does it literally act as a shadow partner..? That's even better then.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

bluebomber24

@twopointonefour: If that's how you would go about it for [i]your[/i] character, yes.

Edit: Split Hurricane does not get an extra critical chance. I believe that was mentioned by some people in this thread.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

@bluebomber24: Maybe pointless is a better word.

Split damage is good providing you can do the damage to make it good otherwise your point is better spent in the DoT Reinforce.

Added range I don't know for sure if it applies to AFA or not, yes afa does have a maximum range.

I believe most bosses use mapwide attacks making the extra range a wasted point if you're just going to get hit anyways.

I have a more or less if it isn't broken don't try to fix it, hence if I can stay out of bodyguards range then I'm okay with that and I won't need to boost that anymore.

Non Cap :
Inferno DoT Reinforce
Phoenix : Attack Count
Phoenix : Reinforce
Movable Hurricane
Inferno Reinforce

At Cap :
Hurricane Split Shot
Phoenix : Attack count
Phoenix : Reinforce
Inferno : Reinforce
Movable Hurricane

Is that clearer..?

One advantage to Split hurricane is the extra critical chance and damage. 130 x 157 x 2 + AFA Isn't that bad imo even for unfunded players.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

bluebomber24

@V2roler: No difference as explained.

@twopointonefour: [b]Useless[/b]...I hate that word, as most of the time its used incorrectly in maple. Which is why even in that stickied outdated skill build guide I have a whole section dedicated to that word. Something is not useless unless its impact is 0. You may not value somethings nominal output but it doesn't mean its useless. I already gave some examples of how the skills could benefit a player, but I acknowledge the value you view those skills though. However, I do want to talk about a couple of things that you talked about though.

Hurricane - Split Damage; Your statement confuses me, you would have to clarify what you are talking about. If a person has a 0% chance of hitting the cap, then the skill is [b]useless[/b] at least quantitatively. If you are doing it for aesthetic reason, I don't blame you. And yes, Ultimate Flame Shot - DoT Persist would be quantitatively better as its usefulness is above 0%, as stated in my previous example I gave on its use.

Hurricane - Add Range: I don't see what other classes have to do with it. I don't see how having a larger range will hurt on bossing especially when considering most mobile bosses have their own attack range, and the future release and actions of bosses is unknown.

Also, as I said before in the thread where we talked about 50+ range in the past, its equivalent to a Range +1 or 1 step. You can hit 1 more monster w/o moving than you normally could compared to a BM that doesn't have it. The comparison of one BM with it and one without [b]literally[/b] means the Idiom [url=http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/one+step+ahead]"1 step ahead"[/url] As a result, in scenarios like ToT, if all things were the same except 1 of the BMs having the Add Range, he would be in "killing terms" 1 step ahead of the other BM without it. Its not that great but its not useless.

I don't disagree with your outlook, as its a valid opinion, but I disagree with the term useless.

[quote=bowmushro0m]@airforce1: look, i respect you and rujin. aside from you two this whole forum is a joke xD if you write a guide it will get neglected and people will just continue asking. just like the age old "mm or bm" xD[/quote]

For some reason, I feel like you are taking a jab at AGF and [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/520805/50/Bow_or_Crossbow__The_Ultimate_Decision.html]this[/url]. As the sole purpose we made that was to completely eliminate that question. We didn't eliminate it, but we did reduce the questions by a good 10-20% when it was relevant. It did receive alot of comments so somebody used it...hopefully. Was thinking about updating it since I have legal rights to it and other long forgotten stuff...but maple changes too much and I hate wasted work.

I also think @Airforce1 posting a guide could be helpful, if he did it at around the time the patch for Hypers happened. That way, even if it doesn't become a stickied guide, the majority of questions that will be asked around that time will see his thread. Proof that it can [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2203437/13/Ascension_Bowmaster_Skill_Build.html]work[/url].

@hummer195: Yes it stays unused, which is why I don't care if you call me silly, but I smell a 5th job or something that will utilize our wasted SP. Outside of the Preparation, WoF, and Epic Adventurer, I would say no. But combined with the non-hyper updates (Inferno's increased damage, 15% Status Resist, Phoenix's increased Speed), yes we get a lot better. I can not emphasize enough how much better mobbers we become and TBH if you are not bossing ODDS are your primary skill isn't Hurricane, its Ultimate Inferno.

Reply December 8, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

[quote=abgl015]Maybe im not seeing something here as along with 99.98% of the BM players i cant and wont ever hit the current cap dmg, so how exactly is this beneficial?[/quote]

If you don't find a benefit from split hurricane then you'll find a bigger benefit in Inferno's DoT Reinforcement.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

TheMagi

[quote=abgl015]Maybe im not seeing something here as along with 99.98% of the BM players i cant and wont ever hit the current cap dmg, so how exactly is this beneficial?[/quote]

It currently isn't at this point. Especially with the new 50mil cap.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

hummer195

Thanks @blueeraser, @bowmushro0m and @bluebomber24. I just got so confused about what to do. Does our extra sp from 4th just stay unused then? I'm curious if you guys think this will make us much better than how we are now. Oh and I'm a guy btw o-o

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

abgl015

[quote=twopointonefour]
Hurricane - Split Damage - Only real use is for bossing.
[/quote]

Maybe im not seeing something here as along with 99.98% of the BM players i cant and wont ever hit the current cap dmg, so how exactly is this beneficial?

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

bowmushro0m

@airforce1: look, i respect you and rujin. aside from you two this whole forum is a joke xD if you write a guide it will get neglected and people will just continue asking. just like the age old "mm or bm" xD

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

airforce1

[quote=FalenXangel]it would potentially make a difference because it allows you to proc AFA and crits more, however the difference is probably negligible for people who don't hit anywhere close to max -OR- split does nothing to change it and crits only either proc for both or neither and the AFA proc rate remains unchanged (instead of a 91% chance proc you stay at 70% chance)... if it does count the arrows as separate for the purposes of crit and AFA procs, it'd be nice, but chances are it'll count the 2 arrows as 1 cast for the proc rate[/quote]

More precesily, the normalized damage is exactly the same. AFA still only procs once. Crits are multiplicative so there's no difference aside from more consistent damage which just averages the same.

@bowmushro0m @bluebomber I'll do everyone a favor and write a new SP guide (including hypers) on Wed when I'm done with finals. I'm getting really tired of these repetitive posts clogging our forum.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

twopointonefour

@bluebomber24 : Phoenix - Persist - Useless

Ultimate Flame Shot - DoT Persist - Also useless, you never use the DoT in any situation other than when training.

Ultimate Flame Shot - DoT Reinforce - This is the more useful of the bad hyper skills.

Hurricane - Add Range - We are not Mercedes or Corsairs here we do not need this to be able to solo bodyguard A stunless.

Hurricane - Moveable Shot - Potentially something to get.

Hurricane - Split Damage - Only real use is for bossing rarely for single targets in training imo.

~~~~~

I'm obviously going for Split damage and Movable hurricane. While my other 3 points boost phoenix and Inferno.

My Stat passive hyperskills will be a bit different probably going to change the Crit Rate hyper skill for something else.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

TheMagi

[quote=FalenXangel] -OR- split does nothing to change it and crits only either proc for both or neither and the AFA proc rate remains unchanged (instead of a 91% chance proc you stay at 70% chance)... if it does count the arrows as separate for the purposes of crit and AFA procs, it'd be nice, but chances are it'll count the 2 arrows as 1 cast for the proc rate[/quote]

It's this.

Cept for the crit part. Ever since Big Bang, Criticals are considered multiplicative damage, meaning that even if it hits more red numbers, they won't mean anything because they don't give an additive boost anymore.

Split damage literally affects you in no way unless you're hitting cap. Which isn't going to be exactly the easiest thing to do when the Ultimate Patch hits anyways.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

V2roler

[quote=FalenXangel]it would potentially make a difference because it allows you to proc AFA and crits more, however the difference is probably negligible for people who don't hit anywhere close to max -OR- split does nothing to change it and crits only either proc for both or neither and the AFA proc rate remains unchanged (instead of a 91% chance proc you stay at 70% chance)... if it does count the arrows as separate for the purposes of crit and AFA procs, it'd be nice, but chances are it'll count the 2 arrows as 1 cast for the proc rate[/quote]

Thanks for that info, and seeing how the DMG cap will be raised to 50M soon I dont think anyone will come close to that.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

FalenXangel

[quote=V2roler]Uhm, can split DMG not be usefull? Seeing as aldo you dont have AFA with the second arrow you DO have a chance at critical right?
I don't know it for sure, but wouldn't that make a difference?[/quote]

it would potentially make a difference because it allows you to proc AFA and crits more, however the difference is probably negligible for people who don't hit anywhere close to max -OR- split does nothing to change it and crits only either proc for both or neither and the AFA proc rate remains unchanged (instead of a 91% chance proc you stay at 70% chance)... if it does count the arrows as separate for the purposes of crit and AFA procs, it'd be nice, but chances are it'll count the 2 arrows as 1 cast for the proc rate

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

V2roler

[quote=bluebomber24]
[*] Hurricane - Split Damage, IF and only IF you will scratch the damage cap will this be beneficial. If you won't don't put points in this skill.
[/quote]

Uhm, can split DMG not be usefull? Seeing as aldo you dont have AFA with the second arrow you DO have a chance at critical right?
I don't know it for sure, but wouldn't that make a difference?

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

EckoLeader

[quote=bowmushro0m]@bluebomber24: i would wonder because i personally have no idea about hyperskills or how they work, my big plan was to just wait for the patch and figure it out (genius i know) i don't know how many skills i have to sacrifice xD but for me, hurricane split and walking hurricane are very important ._. i plan to be hitting max with both.

but at the same time, mega phoenix and inferno that doesn't suck is really good ._.

but for all i know i might be able to have all of that and more. cause i literally don't know anything about how many hyperskill points we're gonna get.[/quote]

6 SP for stat booster skills, 5 SP for passive skill boosters, and 3 Sp for active hyper skills.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

bowmushro0m

@bluebomber24: i would wonder because i personally have no idea about hyperskills or how they work, my big plan was to just wait for the patch and figure it out (genius i know) i don't know how many skills i have to sacrifice xD but for me, hurricane split and walking hurricane are very important ._. i plan to be hitting max with both.

but at the same time, mega phoenix and inferno that doesn't suck is really good ._.

but for all i know i might be able to have all of that and more. cause i literally don't know anything about how many hyperskill points we're gonna get.

Reply December 7, 2012 - edited

bluebomber24

[quote=bowmushro0m]alright let's clear some things up:

1. i would agree with you if this was a regular skill guide, but seeing as hyperskills is actually ..relevant, your spoonfeeding argument is invalid (as an english bm guide, probably doesn't even exist)

2. you can't tell people to stay out of a public discussion, it's super annoying.

3. you were attempting to be funny, you failed. (and our hyperskills aren't even OP so it's just kind of..bad)

4. it's not about whose minding their own business, it's about whose staying on topic. if you asked your teacher a question and he or she responded with a half witted smart ass remark, you'd probably be very annoyed.

OT: i'm actually also curious about bowmaster hyperskill SP guide..i don't know anything about kms, so while i could probably make one that was fairly accurate, i would need to play threw the update for awhile though. literally i could make a guide a couple hours after the patch. but i'm betting you want something sooner. you should talk to @bluebomber24 he tends to keep up with things like this[/quote]

Hm...I personally don't think a guide is neccesary....unless you REALLY don't know what your doing...which for some poeple that actually may be true...>_>. With Hyperskills, you get set points that you can use at certain levels and have the ability to reset. At times, your forced to put points in a skill and reset it later if you are under level 195. You can't guide someone when they have no choice