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How do you feel about the Bishop changes

Bishop Forum Talk about Cleric, Priest and Bishop

How do you feel about the Bishop changes

24%7 / 29Love it
55%16 / 29Hate it
20%6 / 29I don't care
0%0 / 29What's a Bishop?

Replies

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Deathnile Level 200 Khaini Evan 10th Growth
I sorta like it with the new animations, especially Mystic Door and Angel Ray. Sort of don't care for Bahamut with the armor, still looking for nexon to make Mir's armor show...
May 29 2013
jolteon7 Level 205 Broa I/L Arch Mage
Angel Ray is losing a count, but will have increased damage per hit. With a 50mil cap, it shouldnt be too bad.
May 29 2013
DrStrangenoob Level 200 Windia Bishop
I dunno. I wrote my ramblings on another thread in a tired rush last night.

Also, bear in mind that this is still just KMSt, so none of this is final they even specifically mentioned it in inkwell's diary.
So I'm assuming there was quite a bit of response from the KMS community if Nexon had to directly respond like this. And it makes sense, seeing as hyper skills haven't been adjusted yet as far as I'm aware.

I'm kind of tired, but I guess I'll give my thoughts on the revamp now that I've given it a good look. I'm going by southperry translations for skill data: www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=66864
See post #6 for english skill tables.

I'm not sure about the math, but while it looks like our damage may have gotten nerfed (AR nerfed to 3 hits and longer delay), it depends on whether skills like blessing ensemble, heal's new damage boosting effect, and big bang will make up the difference. So I'm not sure.

Guess I'll start with 2nd job:
Blessing ensemble: I'm assuming it works according to how many party members, rather than how many total buffs you've given them (because that would be kinda crazy, I can count bless, door, HS, holy shell, and MW), so that means 15% damage boost for a 3 member party, and a 25% damage boost for a 5 member party based on the 4th job enhanced version. Great buff for large party bossing / large PQs, not so great for solo bishops Zzzzzzzzzzz. I'm pretty meh about the 20% bonus exp from having other bishops in your party, since it doesn't apply to the party (if I read it right).

Heal: According to SP, it looks like heal now applies a 20% damage boost for 8 seconds on any non-undead monsters affected by it. If it works for the party, this could mean a nice party version of corsairs parrotargeting skill. Looks like a great party skill if it turns out to be true.

3rd Job:
Holy Fountain or whatever: I like the idea of enabling party members to heal at their own discretion, this seems useful at pot cooldown bosses, particularly empress. But outside of it, it's kind of meh. I see the best use of this skill if you need to split up your party and this let's you better divide up your healing. Supposing your at post-unlimited empress, and you need someone to pin Mihile or empress while everyone else focuses on the other instructors on the other side of the map, you can throw up fountain on one side of the map, and focus on the other side.

Divine Protection: I JUST DON'T KNOW. It's like a poor man's version of Lumi's status shell skill in 3rd job. And removing % status resist from bahamut? Oh boy, 50% status resist from skills --> 30 % status resist with HS hyper. Oh boy, we can resist 1 status ailment for good. You know what I want back? I want an improvement of our old holy shield. Not holy magic shell, I'm talking about an old skill we had pre-BB, pre-JUMP revamp which gave our party immunity from status effects for a period of time. Sorta like holy magic shell for status effects only. This is probably my biggest gripe about the revamp.

4th job:
Advanced bless: They nerfed the mastery level. Really? When the JUMP revamp was first revealed, I never entirely felt the small extra atk justified a while 30 SP spent on it. Heck I didn't max it till lvl 165 originally. If we're supposed to be the "core of every strong party" I wouldn't expect something like this. Here's hoping they change it later on.

Res: Hooray, halved cooldown and 2 min cooldown with CO is too much. Great to have, if they ever get rid of no cooldown res.

Bahamut: Removed status resist passive... BBBRRROOOOKKKLLYNNN RAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEE! Meh, I think the new armor looks tacky, but meh.

AR: So it heals while it attacks. I enjoy that alot, I just hope it doesn't trigger zombify. As for the damage nerf... I'll wait and see how the overall effect is at the end.

Genesis: I'm genuinely impressed with what they did to mage ultimates. I'd been advocating doing something to make them more useful other than as a showoff skill, and nexon actually did something creative to make them useful. Giving final attack to A/Ms and making big bang have no cooldown for us after we use it. I question whether we'd want to max this skill at all now, seeing as a longer cooldown is a good thing. Maybe they'll change it later, but a definite improvement here.

Big Bang: As much as I dislike the vertical range on AR, I'd still take it over the nonexistent range on big bang. Based on the changes, I think they expect big bang to be our main attacking skill now (especially with the defense ignore effect), but I don't want to have to stand right on an enemy to be able to hit them. Not sure how the damage compares to AR, but I'm hoping they'll revamp VoA accordingly in a later patch, (I don't think they touched hypers so far). Still, look forward to switching my attacking skills around in 4th.

Overall, not sure what to think. It looks like they've encourage us to be much more active in supporting. Some things I question, but meh, I'm pretty tired right now, and I'm not sure if all the skill translations are accurate, and how things will change in future patches. Didn't go over every minor change, may have forgotten or misread some stuffwhen I'm tired. So I'm off to bed. I'll see if I have anything new to add/change. [/quote]

So here's what I think now. Nexon's actually trying to emphasize our support role more finally with this update. Sure it looks like our attack skills may have been nerfed a bit on the surface, but apparently the mage damage formula has been changed, something has to account for our potential 25% damage increase from blessing ensemble. Depends on how viable big bang is as a main attacking skill.

It seems like this revamp tries to make our support and attack skills "synergize" or work together more, don't know how to put it better. Stuff like giving heal a "increased damage to affected monsters" buff, making big bang apply defense ignore, having AR heal, that's all stuff I like. I also like how it makes some skills work in conjunction, making big bang spammable at full charge when genesis is on cooldown (they actually came up with a good solution to make mage ultimates actually worth using, which surprises me, seeing as I used to advocate giving them passive benefits like +% crit/crit damage to have a point in putting SP into the skill), having dispel lower the cooldown on divine protection or whatever that 3rd job (which happens to be the only thing I like about that lame skill). Overall, I think it encourages a bit more diversity / active playstyle in terms of support and damage. Which is why I think they'll revamp VoA later. If they really want us to diversify our support and attacking, no sense in restricting us to just AR, seeing as AR has been nerfed anyways.

Also dear lord, dat vertical range on SR: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewrp4BmE2HY

Hopefully they buff the range on big bang, if they really want to make that our main attacking skill based on the changes to genesis. I'm not interested in standing right on top of a monster to be in range to hit them.

And now there are several changes that baffle me.
1. Divine protection. Now I get they were making similar skills for all adventurer mages with slightly varying effects. But... really? They removed bahamut's 40% status resist and gave us 20% from this? And it's not even a party skill? Now I like the idea of dispel lowering it's cooldown, but that seems kinda contradictory, as that'd imply we'd want our party members to be affected by status effects more often to lower its cooldown faster. I'd rather have a revamped version of our old holy shield from pre-BB. Because this skill is just a poor man's version of Lumi's shadow shell.

2. Advanced blessing nerf: I already mentioned it in an earlier rant. Not much to say.

3. Removal of bahamut's 40% status resist. Already mentioned with divine protection. I don't get it. They gave archmages additional mastery tied with their summons. I don't see any useful passive for ours, and bahamut attacks too slow to be useful to DPS.

4. Removal of doom: Minor, but I know I'm gonna miss trolling people with this when they bring back PvP.

I'm thinking this first KMSt patch was just to put in the new animations and just test the whole "unique class skill" gimmick which they're using to differentiate classes. I'm hoping they'll change the numbers in the later patches according to feedback.
May 29 2013
Azwelf Level 160 Cassiopeia Evan 10th Growth
Seriously, i see the 40% abnormal status removed from bahamut and i flipraged everywhere ; yet the arch mages recieved 70% mastery for their summons? really nexon? Ok. so good healing on AR ( do note there is NO vertical range fix) and now they make this duo of spamming gene and bb. iunno man, wouldn't it make us totally busy juggling between buffs like VoA , AR , gene , bb , heal, shell, heavens door,infinity,hs, bless,invincible, bubbleshieldcrap (not to mention VoA not synergizing with all the other skills and it seems the new AR cant be telecasted).

Bad. just bad. So we have to rely on that half-assed bubble shield that comes with a big fat 5minute cooldown which can only be reduced by using dispel. I'm pretty sure people press their all-cures faster than we could do VoA > dispel so the cooldown reduction part seems pretty unreliable. Also that healing fountain seems to only fully shine in pot lock/cooldown endgame bosses. Always wished they made HS delay cast animation faster, but noo, herre comes a huge ass one that's just as slow as the old one (yay?)

Inbefore people like bubblecup comes and strawman all my argument and say stuff like why not use the BB-gene duo/bishops should stay as pure supports and people that say it's not the final version since lolKMST.

tldr : Very mad on 40% asrR removed from baha, too many skills for us to alternate now, everything intertwined. lulsrsly AR vert range pls.

EDIT : just found out our oh so very pathetic 5minute cd bubble shield can be broken by puny abnormal status effect like slow from leafre beetles. GG bishops
May 29 2013
Overall, I like the greater focus on support but I'm on the fence about our attacking abilities.

Holy Fountain seems good for small parties or specialized groups like in Empress or something and just looks like an interesting skill. I'm not sure how I feel about the AB nerf but it's almost understandable with how BB reduces def. Divine Protection is a lacking skill to me since protection from one status every few minutes doesn't exactly make up for losing 20% resist.

I'm not sure how I feel about our new attacking style. I understand how it relies more on synergy but it may make our playstyle too busy for a class focused on the party. Alternating between BB and AR after Gene would be manageable but our AA toggle would just make it more annoying to alternate between the two. Coupled with how BB outdamages AR without AA, you'd have to toggle it every single time you want to do more damage than BB.

Gene>BB>AA>AR>AA>BB>AA>AR>AA repeat. No thanks. That doesn't even take into account responsibilities to the party. If anything, AA will be down more than up, if it actually gets a chance to be up at all. In terms of attacking, our revamped style clashes with our old style yet they've included both. The revamp emphasizes Gene and BB for attacking and AR as an alternate that heals but our hypers emphasize AR for attacking. You can't have two main attacks and have something as intrusive as a toggle get in the way every time you want to alternate between the two.
May 29 2013
Overall, I like the greater focus on support but I'm on the fence about our attacking abilities.

Holy Fountain seems good for small parties or specialized groups like in Empress or something and just looks like an interesting skill. I'm not sure how I feel about the AB nerf but it's almost understandable with how BB reduces def. Divine Protection is a lacking skill to me since protection from one status every few minutes doesn't exactly make up for losing 20% resist.

I'm not sure how I feel about our new attacking style. I understand how it relies more on synergy but it may make our playstyle too busy for a class focused on the party. Alternating between BB and AR after Gene would be manageable but our AA toggle would just make it more annoying to alternate between the two. Coupled with how BB outdamages AR without AA, you'd have to toggle it every single time you want to do more damage than BB.

Gene>BB>AA>AR>AA>BB>AA>AR>AA repeat. No thanks. That doesn't even take into account responsibilities to the party. If anything, AA will be down more than up, if it actually gets a chance to be up at all. In terms of attacking, our revamped style clashes with our old style yet they've included both. The revamp emphasizes Gene and BB for attacking and AR as an alternate that heals but our hypers emphasize AR for attacking. You can't have two main attacks and have something as intrusive as a toggle get in the way every time you want to alternate between the two.[/quote]

The obvious solution is to allow Big Bang to be cast during Avenging Angel - I honestly don't know why they haven't already made this change, but it needs to come.
May 29 2013
natty2 Level 225 Broa Bishop Nimbus Guild See what games, anime & art natty2 is intonatty2
Im okay with the animations,
I'm not okay with the changes.
Making BB a part of my attack series? ARE YOU NUTS?
I only use genesis when my Infinity is about done and I wanna see some CAP damage~
But Genesis sux, and BB sux, and why the hell would you buff it?
Also, when asking a bishop what's his problem with the current attacking pattern, they will all answer the same: Diagonal range.

NOT being able to hit whatever above me, now thats crap!
Every other class has a great range (or at least a way to expand the range, by jumping / moving around!)
What we got is only "healing some friends".
WHAT THE F?
Nobody needs my healing!
Will all of the thiefs moving arounds like real ninjas, and Pirates stable but jumpy, all we get to heal is the warriors who stand still thanks to their stability~ AND THEY DONT NEED our healing.

I'd rather have a new skill, and let VoA work for that new skill only~
Or maybe make VoA a real buff that works with every skill instead of freaking useless BB!
May 29 2013
jolteon7 Level 205 Broa I/L Arch Mage
Well i mean, stop complaining about the game requiring a certain amount of skill and knowledge now. All of these changes just need practice to get used to, it doesn't slow anything down. With no cap, genesis is legit and big bang finally has a purpose.

It sounds like you are complaining that you have a lot of useful skills and would rather not think. And the game gets harder too with unlimited, all of the monsters get stronger, and if you did any high-level bossing now, you know that people want a good bishop. Nexon is defining roles and making classes unique and dependent on each other. Its muy bueno, imo.
May 29 2013
JustAnotherUser Level 200 Khaini Bishop
I like the new skill synergy stuff, however, that playstyle completely clashes with our current Avenging Angel getting in the way of the somewhat complex relationship between our skills. I'm hating that divine protection too, I mean wat? 20% status resist for that active effect? if you at least made it so you can chose which status resist it should block, but nooo, the stuff will mainly be blocking harmless things like darkness or curse.
On the bright side, magic door no longer needs magic rocks, the new animations look great, not sure if anyone noticed that MP boost now gives an extra 120 MP per character level (That's an extra 24k mp by Lv.200!)
[url=http://static.southperry.net/patch/skill/Kaiser.2321003.summon.fly.gif]Can't get over the new Bahamut look, too sexy[/url] it might be my imagination but judging from those videos, I think Bahamut's attack speed was slightly increased. If they're gong to strip Bahamut from it's 40% status resist at least make it:
A) Obscenely powerful
B) Give some other kind of passive, like what they did to Ifrit and Elquines.
I don't know how to feel about this patch, the feels are too much.
May 29 2013
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