General

Dude, just diffuse that 15% neb and replace it with %TOTAL damage, then you'd have only 2% of useless pdr, and not 17%, and you'd end up with between 1% and 4% more total damage, since %boss isn't worth it in your world, then do the next best thing and replace your neb with %total instead.

@WireWorks: I think we can all agree on the fact that he has too much Ignore PDR if he uses Leafre. 113% doesn't help more than 100%. thus, we can agree he should change a 15% Neb to %Boss or something. however, that's not to say the Leafre set is useless because "anything above 80% pdr is useless" because it still increases your dmg more. the separate dmg reduction is Physical resist?
I didn't factor them because they affect both things the same.
let's assume we're against Empress with 70% PDR and 70% from Physical Resist. let's factor in 30% Boss on weapon so we can factor in more things.
using 800k as before: Base - 800*(1-(1-0.83)(0.70))*1.3*0.7 for dmg, PDR, Boss, Resist respectively = 641.368k
Leafre - 800*1*1.3*0.7 = 728k
Empresss - 800*(1-(1-0.83)(0.70))*1.3*0.7*1.03 = 660.61k
so again, Ignore PDR is not useless and has a much greater effect than simply 3% Atk. if he had %atk on his equips, the effect from Codex is reduced.

rather than change his codex because he has to much Ignore, he should change nebs. it does not change the fact that Leafre is still better unless he has 100% from other sources. obviously if he's training, something that boosts his range more since there's Low PDR. I do not see why you picked Von Leon when it's just much less than Empess. Hob would probably be better.

as for formula changing in the future, that's a problem for his equips. he can easily change the Codex in the future so it's irrelevant. if anything, the change favors large chunks of Ignore PDR and still outweighs a measly 3% Atk in comparison.

[quote=GoXDS]then back up your statement somehow. everything I calculated was for his situation, so I don't see why you brought that up.
%Total actually stacks with %Boss additively so in general, %total isn't as good as %atk
why wouldn't %Ignore PDR benefit the same way? let's say he does 800k on a normal monster (w/ 0% PDR)
on monster with 50% PDR, that's 800*(1-(1-0.83)(0.50))*1.03 = 753.96k w/ Empress Set
800k with Leafre Set
800*(1-(1-0.83)(0.50))*1.01*1.01 = 746.7132k w/ Von Leon Set
in WHAT case, might I ask, would these numbers not apply anyway?

sure, he probably should go for %Boss lines/Nebs for his weapon but that's a separate issue[/quote]

How is it a separate issue? If you stack too much PDR from any source it's a waste and if he has enough from other sources then preparing for the future is much better. If you stack that much pdr now and don't account for the fact that the pdr formula is being changed in a couple months and that it does absolutely nothing above 100% then ok fine stack away but if he can pick up all he needs from his codex advising him to pick up total or boss on his weapon is better than saying for now take that set its better. If hes going to keep the pdr on his weapon going to 113% pdr is not needed so dropping it for a set that increases damage be it either empress or von leon is better. The calculations currently show that anything above 80% pdr is useless because of how the major bosses work they have a separate damage reduction that is applied after all modifiers so going to a higher range or %boss is actually a better choice when fighting pb empress magnus or any of the root abyss bosses. Your numbers don't take in to account any of the other factors that affect damage in this game and are far too simplified to provide the whole picture as to what is actually better. Sure I can say 100% pdr will improve your damage over any stat in the game just because it negates any defense any monster has but when the monster has no defense to begin with you get 0 benefit from it and when a boss has innate pdr that calculates after ignore stacking more ignore isnt going to help you as much as more range or even boss damage.

The simple answer is if you have 80% pdr from other sources change tour codex to something that improves your range if you don't have 80% change your codex to one of the 3 that gives you ignore.

[quote=WireWorks] its not which is better overall its which is better in his situation where he already has a huge chunk of ignore. Going over 80% is useless so your advice to take leafre for the 30% is only good for anyone under that mark. Now the 3% attack from empress can be better depending on the class but often the %total actually improves damage more if you're already high on the attack range which I assumed from his already having the empress card set.[/quote]

then back up your statement somehow. everything I calculated was for his situation, so I don't see why you brought that up.
%Total actually stacks with %Boss additively so in general, %total isn't as good as %atk
why wouldn't %Ignore PDR benefit the same way? let's say he does 800k on a normal monster (w/ 0% PDR)
on monster with 50% PDR, that's 800*(1-(1-0.83)(0.50))*1.03 = 753.96k w/ Empress Set
800k with Leafre Set
800*(1-(1-0.83)(0.50))*1.01*1.01 = 746.7132k w/ Von Leon Set
in WHAT case, might I ask, would these numbers not apply anyway?

sure, he probably should go for %Boss lines/Nebs for his weapon but that's a separate issue

@GoXDS: its not which is better overall its which is better in his situation where he already has a huge chunk of ignore. Going over 80% is useless so your advice to take leafre for the 30% is only good for anyone under that mark. Now the 3% attack from empress can be better depending on the class but often the %total actually improves damage more if you're already high on the attack range which I assumed from his already having the empress card set.

[quote=WireWorks]The point is if he has enough to reach 80% with the set effect he doesn't need to keep the lines on his weapon and other sources because he would be better off with more damage than ignore and if he doesn't want to recube his weapon taking the %att %total from von leon would be the better option for damage improvement.[/quote]

potential lines on his weapon is a completely separate issue that you can argue separately. however we were arguing Leafre Vs Empress and which is better.
as for Von Leon, let's assuming 0% atk and 0% Total again since that's when maximum effect. 1.01*1.01 = 1.0201x, which is less than Empress.
so, Leafre > Empress > Von Leon

[quote=GoXDS]we're talking solely about Set Effects from the Codex which do not provide % Boss. also, how does factoring in those values change the results? the effect %atk or %Ignore PDR has on dmg is not affected by additional %Boss.[/quote]
The point is if he has enough to reach 80% with the set effect he doesn't need to keep the lines on his weapon and other sources because he would be better off with more damage than ignore and if he doesn't want to recube his weapon taking the %att %total from von leon would be the better option for damage improvement.

@Wireworks we're talking solely about Set Effects from the Codex which do not provide % Boss. also, how does factoring in those values change the results? the effect %atk or %Ignore PDR has on dmg is not affected by additional %Boss.

[quote=GoXDS]I already gave calculations proving otherwise ._.[/quote]

Factor in boss damage with your calculation and %total damage and you'll see the difference. At 80% PDR anything you add to boss or total will increase your damage more than additional pdr.

[quote=WireWorks]After around 80% pdr it falls off dramatically and its much better to start going for %att and boss at that point.[/quote]

I already gave calculations proving otherwise ._.

After around 80% pdr it falls off dramatically and its much better to start going for %att and boss at that point.

@shanlan ah, right. DoT.
@johny2toes how much do you do? at Root Abyss vs normal mobs. also, huge difference comparing 70% to 50% vs 90% to 40-60% ._.

[quote=ShadowSkillz]@Chutiya: Er... 100% PDR doesn't leads to higher damage... It gives you 100% chance to ignore boss's defends and deal your [b]original[/b] damage.[/quote]

which is higher damage than you would be doing without the pdr....

[quote=GoXDS]er, if you hit dmg cap, then you just go with the one with better side benefits meaning Leafre +1 All Skills anyways o_o even without the other benefits, wh switch if you hit cap?
@johny2toes say that to all my friends and my DrK. what makes you say it isn't 50% as opposed to 90%?[/quote]

Maybe because I Root Abyss almost everyday and do 70% of my normal dmg on them? And I've tested on other bosses comparing my boss dmg% on other mobs to them. It isn't 50% reduction.

[quote=shanlan]Cygnus V2 have 60% PDR. By having 83% ignore, you will ignore 49.8% PDR out of 60% and do 100%-10.2% = 89.2% of your original damage. Apply that to your current range and compare to your range with 3% attack crusader codex; the PDR will most likely to be better. (Until you hit damage cap)[/quote]

er, if you hit dmg cap, then you just go with the one with better side benefits meaning Leafre +1 All Skills anyways o_o even without the other benefits, wh switch if you hit cap?
@johny2toes say that to all my friends and my DrK. what makes you say it isn't 50% as opposed to 90%?

@GoXDS: Your dmg isn't cut in half on Root Abyss bosses. o_O I never said there was a way to avoid physical resist either.

[quote=Demon671]That's my problem. Im just 17% shy of 100%. And I am not sure if that 17% really makes a difference vs the 3% att might make a difference. I am not really know it all about the maths of these things so I thought I'd try and ask someone else who might be more "Specialized" in this sort of matters.[/quote]

Trust me, pdr makes a world of difference when dealing with dps.

[quote=johny2toes]@BurritoMan: Half is a bit dramatic. Maybe 90% of your regular damage. I'd take doing 90% of my dmg as opposed to only doing 40~60% of my dmg.[/quote]

half is half man. this is their Physical resist, not PDR. there's no way for a Physical attacker to avoid that

OT: assuming you had 0% Atk before Set effects. 3% Atk means 1.03x increase in dmg
let's use a 50% PDR monster just for calculations. 83% Ignore PDR means you do 91.5% of your dmg assuming 0% PDR Monster. 100% Ignore PDR means you do 100%.
1.00/0.915 = 1.093x dmg.
if you had other sources of %Atk, Empress set is less than 1.03x
if you faced something with more PDR, Leafre Set would be more than 1.093x

[quote=channelQUIT]I thought %PDR didn't stack?[/quote]

why the heck would you think that? you should get better informed.

@BurritoMan: Half is a bit dramatic. Maybe 90% of your regular damage. I'd take doing 90% of my dmg as opposed to only doing 40~60% of my dmg.

The extra 17% ignore defense is better.
100% ignore defense will allow you to have regular damage on every mob/boss in the game. This is especially useful in Hilla, PB, Cygnus, Root Abyss (A friend of mine goes from hitting cap to 800~900ks on Root Abyss bosses).

For normal training it's not as much since regular monsters have low defense anyway. But I'd say it's still better to do the 17% ignore because really... Bossing aspect > training aspect.

[quote=Swagtasticmofo]LOL ... first of all % att is useless you should be getting boss dmg regardless/[/quote]Im not cubing. This is a matter of Codex usage. So your post is irrelevant and honestly rude/dimwitted if you could not understand my post.

Also sidenote: Boss nebs are not worth my time or effort as it's nearly non existant in Khaini vs other worlds. The amount that would be needed to make a purchase of a boss neb would be totally irrelevant and would be better put into upgrading/enhancing my gear.

[quote=Chutiya]Okay to put it in simpler terms, Yes the extra 17% Ignore defense to take you to 100% IS worth it more than the 3% increase in attack. A mere extra 15% ignore defense increased my damage output at hilla by about 7-8%. You should be thinking about increases in weapon attack after getting 100% Ignore defense when it comes to bossing for sure.

@ShadowSkillz When i say increases damage, i mean it increases the damage you do on the boss, compared to how much you would do without the ignore defense. I.e i was hitting 86ks on Hilla with the 2% attack el nath set, switched to the 15% Defense ignore hoblin set and saw my damage go up to 92ks.[/quote]

Mm see thats my problem right there. I think I may have high enough att to really have it at a toss up. And I really cannot test it until MS isn't lagging for me anymore. After v128 my ms started to get all sorts of lag which puts me off doing anything. So hence why I asked if the % att will outweigh the % PDR :S but thanks on your input

@Demon671: Hob king set since % stats is better than +1 stats and you have 98% PDR close to 100% . Why waste 13% PDR that isn't going to be used?
If you do normal damage on bossess with 83% PDR, then use 3% attack set.

[quote=mumbhaki]If you're already at 100% pdr then get % attack.[/quote]

That's my problem. Im just 17% shy of 100%. And I am not sure if that 17% really makes a difference vs the 3% att might make a difference. I am not really know it all about the maths of these things so I thought I'd try and ask someone else who might be more "Specialized" in this sort of matters.

If you're already at 100% pdr then get % attack.

My question really isn't what any of you guys are giving me answers too. Im wondering is the whole extra 17% (Because its limited to 100%) is worth it vs the 83% i have usually.
@Wordolio: Not really, I usually just do bosses when I am on my DB. So I'm trying to get advice on whether the 17% would be better than the 3% att. PB is my main skill when bossing unless I come across mobs i.e: Empress summons. I'm just trying to figure out which will be the best outcome.

@Chutiya: I still don't get what you mean. How does % PDR increase damage...
@Antonio06: Help me out bro.

^ I laughed really hard.

@Chutiya: Er... 100% PDR doesn't leads to higher damage... It gives you 100% chance to ignore boss's defends and deal your [b]original[/b] damage.

i would go with PDR. especially since you use other skills im sure than just PB.