General

@phoenix23: Since you only wanted me to respond to one section, I'll ignore your cracks at me.

Here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v338/DeadlyJesus/MS/?action=view&current=Jumpcast.jpg

This is a somewhat more complicated algorithm than is necessary. It will make you jump to the right while final tossing and then final toss in place a few times, and then repeat the action. I can modify it down to certain levels depending on what is necessary for a scenario. I personally don't see a point in jump casting since we already get a 90% stance. Rather than jumping at them when you knock them too far away, it's faster to rush them again and then keep FTing..

As for "tighter control": It's different. For pure reliability, organic systems lose horribly; they're more unpredictable and imprecise. On the other hand, organic systems are much easier to adapt to more varieties of tasks. The limitation for programming is the ability to design smart algorithms for tasks, and this limitation is the user's.

For anyone who happens upon this topic and decides that they can't make sense of our argument, then I'll paraphrase your main argument.
xshadow2 says: "This is my way. Every other way is stupid. Also I'm going to argue until I run out of arguments then state that I never cared."
Fine with me!

@xshadow2: I do have one more honest question for you, though, before you tune out: how do you jumpcast FT?

@xshadow2: I find the main problem with FT is that you're stuck in one spot while you spam it. Your solution, while perhaps very relevant for people seeking a keyboard macro, and especially relevant against stationary/pinned bosses, is optimal for standstill FT spam, but not as versatile as the keyboard.
This is the core of my argument, and perhaps my counterarguments were a bit unfocused, but, to reiterate: I ascertain that full use of the keyboard without automation will always give you tighter control and mastery over your character's movement and actions, despite the higher cost (focus, energy, keyboard wear, and as you argue, strain).

@xshadow2: I should note that jumpcasting FT is especially tricky and took me a lot of practice. It has very particular uses, and I find myself jumpcasting FT at LHC when engaging a mob with intention of obliterating it in 3 jumps (say 9 FT's) and moving through. This is faster than rushing them to the corner.

@xshadow2: Thanks for the info and for the argument, it was fun. I hope someone somewhere will learn something from it. It's nice to have a different perspective around these forums once in a while. Good luck with the job hunt.

Yeah, and I'll let him have the next and last shots. I made my points, and this is just getting silly.

I have microcontrollers to program, jobs to search for, and interviews to do. I'm not gonna spend any more of my senior year in college arguing with some random dude on basil about optimization for a Maplestory class. I probably should have just let him have his way earlier and wasted less time, but I was tired at the time.

Shots fired

[quote=phoenix23]See: rest of this argument, above and below this post, Re: real risks, and Re: Reasons I can't be bothered to take unneccessary cumbersome costly precautions
See: current research on adverse effects of wrist strain, both for and against, not just the first link you happened upon that agreed with you.
See: setting up a controller (they're cheap now and seem better for your wrists than a keyboard, with macro or not), have you tried one?
See: your own family doctor, everyone is different and some people just have fragile / limp wrists. If strain is a reality for you, maybe get looked at. [/quote]

I don't even care, since this part of the argument is going in circles.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury

[quote=Wikipedia]Adaptive software
There is also automated mouse-clicking software that has been developed, which can automate repetitive tasks in games and applications.[/quote]

I've switched over to repetitive motion injuries in general, instead of just carpal... in case you haven't caught on. Yes, I know it's wikipedia. No, I don't care.

[quote=phoenix23]
Not willing to share? I was just curious as to what your setup is. Your reluctance to share hints at hypocrisy on your part. Afraid someone will criticize your less-than-optimal ergonomics?[/quote]

Lol. Obviously baiting here. This is what I do: I press button S6 on my Sidewinder X4 (you can look up if you want images; I'm not bothering) once. It keeps final tossing at perfect speed and without me having to lift a finger, until I press it again.

[quote=phoenix23]
We already discussed how many other adverse health effects (with significant evidence of causality) incited by playing MMO's. Or did you forget? Short attention span already kicking in?[/quote]

Yes, and I pointed out that it was along the line you were talking about, too, in that post. That is to say, it was irrelevant. Apparently you're the one that has trouble remembering.

[quote=phoenix23]
What you're doing is hardly 'minimizing possible negative health effects'. There are larger health concerns than unproven CTS. Maybe carpal tunnel runs in your family and you have a good reason to fear being genetically predisposed to it or something, really, that's totally fine. But what about the other health effects? Did you buy a fancy screen to minimize eye strain? Don't want to get cataracts! [/quote]

*Sigh.* You still don't get it do you? I wasn't expecting you to be this much of an fool, considering that you can at least type past a primary school level. Let me put it plain to you:
->The subject we are on is Aran builds.-> This is specifically advice for Arans wishing to follow down the Final Toss path. ->My advice only pertains to that section.

Yes, there are "greater" health risks all over the place, and they're not specifically relevant to what we're discussing. Do you finally understand?

[quote=phoenix23]
FYI you can't get away with pretending not to care how someone plays their aran then evangelize the aran community about how they should play their arans.[/quote]
Yes, I can. It's called, "I never pretended to care about what you guys actually do, I was just suggesting the optimal decision." At this point we're just debating my intentions? This is getting really stupid, and I'm not joining in for that.
[quote=phoenix23]
You're a few steps past "just pointing out the optimal path".[/quote]
No.

[quote=phoenix23]
In case anyone here is inclined to follow your advice, or if anyone is looking for a new cheap keyboard incidentally, it might be helpful to provide details on your ideal keyboard solution. I'd quite like to know![/quote]

The Sidewinder X4 was 20 dollars off when I got it. Just look for Newegg shellshocker deals.

[quote=phoenix23]
No, you set me straight. I'm going to live in my bubble now. Basketball is too risky. Don't want to tear my ACL or something, then have knee problems for the rest of my life![/quote]

Good. I'd prefer it that you also crawl into a grave and ask someone to provide the dirt, so nothing else will happen to you for the rest of your life.

[quote=xshadow2]<snip>why take risk, could take years, etc.</snip>[/quote]
See: rest of this argument, above and below this post, Re: real risks, and Re: Reasons I can't be bothered to take unneccessary cumbersome costly precautions.
See: current research on adverse effects of wrist strain, both for and against, not just the first link you happened upon that agreed with you.
See: setting up a controller (they're cheap now and seem better for your wrists than a keyboard, with macro or not), have you tried one?
See: your own family doctor, everyone is different and some people just have fragile / limp wrists. If strain is a reality for you, maybe get looked at.

[quote=xshadow2]Irrelevant. [/quote]
Not willing to share? I was just curious as to what your setup is. Your reluctance to share hints at hypocrisy on your part. Afraid someone will criticize your less-than-optimal ergonomics?

[quote=xshadow2]What, wanting to play a class while minimizing possible negative health effects and having an easier time is bad? Okay, yeah, sure. I'm glad you got your priorities straight.[/quote] We already discussed how many other adverse health effects (with significant evidence of causality) incited by playing MMO's. Or did you forget? Short attention span already kicking in? Internet overuse give you ADHD or something? What you're doing is hardly 'minimizing possible negative health effects'. There are larger health concerns than unproven CTS. Maybe carpal tunnel runs in your family and you have a good reason to fear being genetically predisposed to it or something, really, that's totally fine. But what about the other health effects? Did you buy a fancy screen to minimize eye strain? Don't want to get cataracts!

[quote=xshadow2]Cool stuff. FYI, I never honestly cared what you did. I'm just pointing out the optimal path.[/quote]
FYI you can't get away with pretending not to care how someone plays their aran then evangelize the aran community about how they should play their arans. You're a few steps past "just pointing out the optimal path".

[quote=xshadow2]I got this keyboard for 30$, and I mainly got it for Wolfenstein ET, long before I committed to this Aran.[/quote]
In case anyone here is inclined to follow your advice, or if anyone is looking for a new cheap keyboard incidentally, it might be helpful to provide details on your ideal keyboard solution. I'd quite like to know!

[quote=xshadow2]Yeah, no problem. Now buzz off and go play basketball with your head.[/quote]
No, you set me straight. I'm going to live in my bubble now. Basketball is too risky. Don't want to tear my ACL or something, then have knee problems for the rest of my life!

[quote=phoenix23]
<snip first section>[/quote]

Honestly this is just getting stupid. To begin with, no, there is no experimental evidence that links that to it. My whole point was this: why bother taking the risk? You seem to love casually skipping over that point while repeatedly pointing out that no one has any experimental evidence that it is or is not linked to it. Fyi, though:

http://www.dps.missouri.edu/resources/Handbook/repetitive.pdf

Either way, prolonged repetitive hand motions are not good for you. SURPRISE. Most other classes can simply hold down a key to do their main attack, or they have pretty varied attack patterns. Arans using OS+FB don't need to press the keys as fast--nor as many keys at once--as an Aran spamming FT.

Surprise #2, it points out that it could take years for you to actually get something wrong with you.
[quote=phoenix23]
I'm not sure what kind of keyboard macro you have, but (personally) using down-up-attack isn't much strain at all. Do you just hold spacebar or something? Or do you have a G1-G12 keyset on the side, like a real gamer? Do you have a Dvorak keyboard to minimize your typing strain? Do you sit in an ergonomic chair while you rest your wrists on gel-filled pads?[/quote]

Irrelevant. This macro suggestion is pretty much limited to Arans as a class. That's why it's relevant here. Your other ideas to improve at-computer health are great and all, but not relevant to this discussion.

[quote=phoenix23]
My point is (was) that if you're concerned about carpal tunnel syndrome while playing an Aran you've got very odd priorities, and there are probably better changes to make than switching out your keyboard. [/quote]

What, wanting to play a class while minimizing possible negative health effects and having an easier time is bad? Okay, yeah, sure. I'm glad you got your priorities straight.
[quote=phoenix23]
Moreover, I use a laptop for maple with a built-in keyboard. And I don't want to spend 40-150$ on a better keyboard (and if I do it won't be for some terrible game like maple). And I don't wish to download 3rd party software. And I already overkey my FT spam to ensure maximal speed (at no extra strain I assure you). And I've confirmed my speed long ago with rigorous chronometer and framecount tests.[/quote]

Cool stuff. FYI, I never honestly cared what you did. I'm just pointing out the optimal path. I got this keyboard for 30$, and I mainly got it for Wolfenstein ET, long before I committed to this Aran.

[quote=phoenix23]
Thanks for trying to look out for us Basilers, though! Glad to know there's a [b]wannabe doctor / keyboard salesman / guardian angel[/b] watching over us![/quote]

Yeah, no problem. Now buzz off and go play basketball with your head.

[quote=xshadow2]No, that's not "[b]the[/b]" smart decision when we're talking about this topic. "Hours on end" was just a term where I meant "insert however long you plan to be playing here." What you're bringing up is quite beside the point. Nice try, though.

Also, if we're going that route, playing MMORPG's is unhealthy. They're meant to be addictive games that rope you in for what is possibly hours at a time, in long periods of exposure. Heck, MS starts telling you to try to take a break at... what, 3 hours? Lol. If we're gonna go with the "smart" decision here, don't play MMORPG's at all.[/quote]

Indeed.
Don't patronize me, though. "Beside the point?" Your point, that wrist strain is linked to carpal tunnel syndrome, is presumptuous and, as far as evidence-based science goes, baseless. As long as you keep assuming an unproven fact to be true, then there's no use following your point logically.
I mean, I get why you'd THINK that CTS is caused by repetitive wrist motion, and sure a lot of people throw around the term CTS not knowing that it has no known cause (and that repetitive strain is not recognized by the American Hand Surgeon's Association as a risk factor) so sure, you link them in your head. But no evidence links them.
Another wild assumption of yours: spamming 3 keys over and over is profoundly worse than spamming X keys over and over.
Let me assure you, no one has proven a link between carpal tunnel syndrome and repetitive keyboard motion, and even there was a link, FT spam will not increase the risk any more than typing here on basilmarket does.

And until you provide some sort of accreditation or certification as a health professional I'm not really inclined to take your word for it.

I'm not sure what kind of keyboard macro you have, but (personally) using down-up-attack isn't much strain at all. Do you just hold spacebar or something? Or do you have a G1-G12 keyset on the side, like a real gamer? Do you have a Dvorak keyboard to minimize your typing strain? Do you sit in an ergonomic chair while you rest your wrists on gel-filled pads?
My point is (was) that if you're concerned about carpal tunnel syndrome while playing an Aran you've got very odd priorities, and there are probably better changes to make than switching out your keyboard.
Moreover, I use a laptop for maple with a built-in keyboard. And I don't want to spend 40-150$ on a better keyboard (and if I do it won't be for some terrible game like maple). And I don't wish to download 3rd party software. And I already overkey my FT spam to ensure maximal speed (at no extra strain I assure you). And I've confirmed my speed long ago with rigorous chronometer and framecount tests.

Thanks for trying to look out for us Basilers, though! Glad to know there's a [b]wannabe doctor / keyboard salesman / guardian angel[/b] watching over us!

[quote=phoenix23]Playing a video game for hours on end, as you suggest, is bad for your health in the first place. Take breaks.

That's the smart decision, whether or not you use a macro.[/quote]

No, that's not "[b]the[/b]" smart decision when we're talking about this topic. "Hours on end" was just a term where I meant "insert however long you plan to be playing here." What you're bringing up is quite beside the point. Nice try, though.

Also, if we're going that route, playing MMORPG's is unhealthy. They're meant to be addictive games that rope you in for what is possibly hours at a time, in long periods of exposure. Heck, MS starts telling you to try to take a break at... what, 3 hours? Lol. If we're gonna go with the "smart" decision here, don't play MMORPG's at all.

[quote=xshadow2]This is a bit late, but yes it does depend on factors, but it is also generally linked to repetitive hand motions. As for pianos, unless you're sitting there playing the exact same 3 keys for a single piece for hours on end, it's not really comparable. It's not really a condition that just develops all the sudden, either. It's something that will not only take time, but will take deceptively more and more time depending on your past history and your health level. It's not like the condition will be "hey, you're slowly getting me, you know..." You've been fine for a year. You may be fine for another year. To most people the span of a year is a long time, so it doesn't seem like anything's happening. Heck, it might not within your lifetime. The question is this: do you wanna risk it, or do you wanna get a keyboard with a macro and not only have an easier time training, but play it safe?

There's a smart decision and there's a stupid one. Choose.[/quote]

Playing a video game for hours on end, as you suggest, is bad for your health in the first place. Take breaks.

That's the smart decision, whether or not you use a macro.

[quote=phoenix23]FYI, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome has never scientifically been linked to repetitive wrist strain injuries, last I checked. Maybe you mean a more general term, "wrist strain".

By your same logic, of course, all piano players should switch to being DJs, right?
Gotta save those hands and put out music that you know with 100% certitude is in tune.

I've played piano for 19 years, basketball for 12 years, and I've been spamming Final Toss for a year. No wrist problems ever. Then again, perhaps it's because of my past history of healthy wrist use (go wai pervs ;D) that I have the capability to safely operate my keyboard.
Obviously there are other risk factors for repetitive strain injuries, most notably the person's posture, break frequency, overall fitness, flexibility, etc!
I'm sure many maplers out there are absolute ogres who are unable to muster up the finger dexterity to spam 11 keys per second, and sure, I'm glad there are controller and keyboard macros for them. Spamming toss with a controller is pretty much impossible without a macro, in my experience! But don't be so quick to dismiss practiced arans who can spam FT with the same effectiveness with or without a macro.

Personally I prefer not to use a macro, because I've practiced enough that I can jump forward in between my FTs without sacrificing any significant damage. If you can work out how to do that with a macro, then that's cool too! Like I said, if a player doesn't have the dexterity, then hopefully they have the intelligence to program themselves a solution.

I completely agree with your other advice though.[/quote]

This is a bit late, but yes it does depend on factors, but it is also generally linked to repetitive hand motions. As for pianos, unless you're sitting there playing the exact same 3 keys for a single piece for hours on end, it's not really comparable. It's not really a condition that just develops all the sudden, either. It's something that will not only take time, but will take deceptively more and more time depending on your past history and your health level. It's not like the condition will be "hey, you're slowly getting me, you know..." You've been fine for a year. You may be fine for another year. To most people the span of a year is a long time, so it doesn't seem like anything's happening. Heck, it might not within your lifetime. The question is this: do you wanna risk it, or do you wanna get a keyboard with a macro and not only have an easier time training, but play it safe?

There's a smart decision and there's a stupid one. Choose.

[quote=xshadow2]Dude that range was with no equips but my surfboard. Yours isn't that much worse. Just get your Sudden Strike maxed, get High Mastery (+30 attack), get Advanced Final Attack up as high as you can (20-30 attack), etc. Also, make sure you do the Silent Crusade quests to get your Memory Returned buff (+10 attack, irc?). Also, try to get the Empress Blessing to 24+ (24-30 attack). Making a Mihile and getting him to 120 should be pretty easy. Plus, you get a free UA out of it. MoN is the pendant you see on me. Just ask your guildies for some runs (I'm not sure if it's glitched right now though), and someone should eventually help you out. Just ask around.

For potentials, you should just buy some 2-4% belts and shoes to start out with. If you can, nab a set of 6% str earrings; if you don't have enough, get 3%. If you look in the FM long enough you can get that stuff for not much money; either that or craft and fuse your own set. For the top and bottom, it might be easier to craft and fuse them.

For Link Skills, I would go for this order: Phantom (crits)->Demon Slayer (% boss)->Cannoneer (some stats; meh, but helps)

Arans don't need nearly as much money to do stuff as other classes, but you do still need to put some time in. If you don't want to, go buy some NX and use it to get started.[/quote]

I got 4% STR Earrings, 2% STR shoes and 2% top. I'm thinking about replacing my 2% shoe and top for the Homecoming Set. You can find the thread I did about it here
I have maxed Sudden Strike and everything else to there DEFAULT lvs. So meaning that I have no other skills except for the ones you start with when you reach 4th job and they're all lv 10. Oh and what's a MoN? Thanks.

EDIT: I never used the URL link button.. So here, just copy and paste... http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2518616

EDIT 2: Nevermind... I got dis.

[quote=xshadow2]If I actually ever tried to get the timing down, I probably could. I had the rush skill down to an art before I got to 4th job, and I can use everything else fine. The thing with Final Toss is that the delay on it is short as heck. You might think you're doing it optimally but until you see a macro doing it you don't understand just how fast it executes. If you don't do it that fast, you're also missing out on damage. OS+FB is easier to execute by comparison.

The other thing Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Using normal Aran moves might not give it to you because there's gonna be some variation with how you attack. With Final Toss, you're literally pressing the exact same combination for every attack, more than three times a second (if you're doing it optimally). If you really think that's not gonna give you hand problems in the long run, then go ahead and do it for a while.

Personally I prefer saving my hands while dishing out more damage as the optimal choice. Not that I got this keyboard for Maplestory though. I got it for Wolfenstein ET, because some key combinations in it gave me problems and this had 26key rollover.[/quote]

FYI, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome has never scientifically been linked to repetitive wrist strain injuries, last I checked. Maybe you mean a more general term, "wrist strain".

By your same logic, of course, all piano players should switch to being DJs, right?
Gotta save those hands and put out music that you know with 100% certitude is in tune.

I've played piano for 19 years, basketball for 12 years, and I've been spamming Final Toss for a year. No wrist problems ever. Then again, perhaps it's because of my past history of healthy wrist use (go wai pervs ;D) that I have the capability to safely operate my keyboard.
Obviously there are other risk factors for repetitive strain injuries, most notably the person's posture, break frequency, overall fitness, flexibility, etc!
I'm sure many maplers out there are absolute ogres who are unable to muster up the finger dexterity to spam 11 keys per second, and sure, I'm glad there are controller and keyboard macros for them. Spamming toss with a controller is pretty much impossible without a macro, in my experience! But don't be so quick to dismiss practiced arans who can spam FT with the same effectiveness with or without a macro.

Personally I prefer not to use a macro, because I've practiced enough that I can jump forward in between my FTs without sacrificing any significant damage. If you can work out how to do that with a macro, then that's cool too! Like I said, if a player doesn't have the dexterity, then hopefully they have the intelligence to program themselves a solution.

I completely agree with your other advice though.

[quote=max7100]Any tips on how to achieve the range that xshadow2 said? I have a 120 attack PSB without any pots. Current range is nearly 10k clean... And its 15k buffed.
What are some ways to improve it? I'm unfunded so... Ya[/quote]

Dude that range was with no equips but my surfboard. Yours isn't that much worse. Just get your Sudden Strike maxed, get High Mastery (+30 attack), get Advanced Final Attack up as high as you can (20-30 attack), etc. Also, make sure you do the Silent Crusade quests to get your Memory Returned buff (+10 attack, irc?). Also, try to get the Empress Blessing to 24+ (24-30 attack). Making a Mihile and getting him to 120 should be pretty easy. Plus, you get a free UA out of it. MoN is the pendant you see on me. Just ask your guildies for some runs (I'm not sure if it's glitched right now though), and someone should eventually help you out. Just ask around.

For potentials, you should just buy some 2-4% belts and shoes to start out with. If you can, nab a set of 6% str earrings; if you don't have enough, get 3%. If you look in the FM long enough you can get that stuff for not much money; either that or craft and fuse your own set. For the top and bottom, it might be easier to craft and fuse them.

For Link Skills, I would go for this order: Phantom (crits)->Demon Slayer (% boss)->Cannoneer (some stats; meh, but helps)

Arans don't need nearly as much money to do stuff as other classes, but you do still need to put some time in. If you don't want to, go buy some NX and use it to get started.

Any tips on how to achieve the range that xshadow2 said? I have a 120 attack PSB without any pots. Current range is nearly 10k clean... And its 15k buffed.
What are some ways to improve it? I'm unfunded so... Ya

[quote=nathan9898]Sigh, just because you can't spam FT consistently without a keyboard macro, doesnt mean other people can't. It's actually quite a simple task. Sure using a keyboard macro is easier, but imho that ruins the Aran playstyle.[/quote]

If I actually ever tried to get the timing down, I probably could. I had the rush skill down to an art before I got to 4th job, and I can use everything else fine. The thing with Final Toss is that the delay on it is short as heck. You might think you're doing it optimally but until you see a macro doing it you don't understand just how fast it executes. If you don't do it that fast, you're also missing out on damage. OS+FB is easier to execute by comparison.

The other thing Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Using normal Aran moves might not give it to you because there's gonna be some variation with how you attack. With Final Toss, you're literally pressing the exact same combination for every attack, more than three times a second (if you're doing it optimally). If you really think that's not gonna give you hand problems in the long run, then go ahead and do it for a while.

Personally I prefer saving my hands while dishing out more damage as the optimal choice. Not that I got this keyboard for Maplestory though. I got it for Wolfenstein ET, because some key combinations in it gave me problems and this had 26key rollover.

[quote=max7100]I can spam final toss no problem. I prioritized mastering FT Spam first as soon as I got 1 point in to Sudden Strike. So I can do FT Spam for quite a long time...
Well with that said, I have another question. How much % str and what range would you need to hit 100k's with FT Spam each hit? Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Um... 0% str. Around 20.1k range lol (22.1k with 100+ combo). Here's some screenshots:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v338/DeadlyJesus/MS/

All of my gear is currently on my crusader (which is on another account, and I'm too lazy to start up my laptop just to do this), but with full gear (bout 24% str) my max damage goes to a bit under 300k, at a 75% crit rate.
4th job skills I have:

High Mastery level 20, Sudden Strike level 10, Advanced Final Attack 20 (haven't bothered finding the 30 book yet), Freeze Standing 20 (you get this way easier than if you were going for the Overswing+Final Blow route, just an FYI).

The issue is that you might be able to do it consistently without a keyboard macro, but it probably won't be at max speed possible. Final Toss has an insanely short delay between uses. Well, if you think you can do it, give it a shot. It does more damage than OS + FB (till you hit damage cap?) and it costs less to spec.

[quote=xshadow2]If you have a keyboard with a macro function, by far the cheaper and faster route is maxing out sudden attack and then Final Toss spamming. Final Toss outdamages overswing pretty handily, even after Final Blow. Sudden Attack also maxes out at level 10 and requires no mastery book, which means you get your stance skill and whatnot a lot faster.

Problem is that spamming Final Toss without some kind of macro will probably eventually break your fingers (if you can even pull it off for an extended time successfully...).[/quote]

I can spam final toss no problem. I prioritized mastering FT Spam first as soon as I got 1 point in to Sudden Strike. So I can do FT Spam for quite a long time...
Well with that said, I have another question. How much % str and what range would you need to hit 100k's with FT Spam each hit? Thanks in advance.

If you have a keyboard with a macro function, by far the cheaper and faster route is maxing out sudden attack and then Final Toss spamming. Final Toss outdamages overswing pretty handily, even after Final Blow. Sudden Attack also maxes out at level 10 and requires no mastery book, which means you get your stance skill and whatnot a lot faster.

Problem is that spamming Final Toss without some kind of macro will probably eventually break your fingers (if you can even pull it off for an extended time successfully...).

[quote=Chaosblade]Hello max if you max afa and high mastery the 60 att should be more than enough for you to hit 100k[/quote]

Hi, about the AFA and High mastery, I have no books . I have AFA for Arans 30 but I don't have AFA 20 so I can get it up. All my skills are still lv 10... .

[quote=DannyB416]To always hit 100ks on every hit of overswing @ level 10, you would need a minium range of 35k buffed. So at 142 you would need like 175+ total w.att and 50% str.
Just keep searching the FM for Overswing books for cheap, people miss price books everyday.[/quote]

Don't need that. You can reach that with all your normal skills. Maybe a little bit of str% to hit 100k consistently.

But, if you're talking about the very first hit then you may need some funding for that.