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Sair Vs Merc

Corsair Forum Talk about Gunslinger, Outlaw and Corsair

Beesafree Level 200 Mardia Corsair
please point out flaws
Changes to be made:
Stunning strikes delay changed, # attacks changed, and damage changed

the following are the ramblings of an insane corsair obsessed with damage
note: i am biased, biased towards sair, but numbers and math dont lie
there is a too long didnt read part at the bottom

for simplicity, the long tedious and boring math parts (the entire comparison) will be in quotes

Sair and Merc Damage Bonuses
Beesafree:
SAIR:
+33.5% dmg
+20% PDR
+80 atk
+20% dmg vs a single target
100% chance 70% damage - Final attack
+10% Crit min
55% Crit Rate
Ahoy mateys (very complicated skill, and going to turn this otherwise relatively small equation into a fillabuster)
Double down (another complicated skill, with 2 important rolls, 4's and 5's)
  1. 6x gun multiplier

Merc:
+45% dmg
+40% PDR
+80 atk
70% chance 175% damage - Final Attack
+15% crit min
60% crit rate
extra wep eqp (21% dex assumed, or 70% boss assumed)
28 more base attack on their wep
  1. 3x bowguns multiplier

Balanced:

SAIR:
+20% dmg vs a single target
100% chance 70% damage - Final attack
+10% Crit min
55% Crit Rate
Ahoy mateys (very complicated skill, and going to turn this otherwise relatively small equation into a fillabuster)
Double down (another complicated skill, with 2 important rolls, 4's and 5's)
  1. 6x gun multiplier

Merc:
+11.5% dmg
+20% PDR
70% chance 175% damage - Final Attack
+15% crit min
60% crit rate
extra wep eqp (21% dex assumed, or 70% boss assumed)
28 more base attack on their wep
  1. 3x bowguns multiplier

15% main stat is equal to 24 watk which is equal to about a 4k range increase at about lv 165, so we will assume this (i know, assume, but we have to for a fair comparison, provide data to make it more fair, and i will alter it)
Altered to usable data:

SAIR:
+20% dmg vs a single target
100% chance 70% damage - Final attack
+10% Crit min
55% Crit Rate
Ahoy mateys (very complicated skill, and going to turn this otherwise relatively small equation into a fillabuster)
Double down (another complicated skill, with 2 important rolls, 4's and 5's)
  1. 6x gun multiplier

Merc:
+11.5% dmg
7% dmg mobbing (pdr)
20% dmg bossing (pdr)
70% chance 175% damage - Final Attack
+15% crit min
60% crit rate
5600 more range mobbing (extra wep)
70% dmg on bosses (extra wep)
  1. 66 more range base
  2. 3x bowguns multiplier


Double Down and Ahoy Mateys
Beesafree:
these equations involve 2 very complicated sair skills, ahoy mateys and double down
in order to do this we need to know how the crit from ahoy mateys reacts with double down (%dmg is easy, crit is harder)
in order to do that we need to know how often we will get the important numbers, 4, 5, 44, 45, 55

the rate at which we get a number is determined by the possibilities of a dice roll and the number of dice rolled (one or two)
we roll one die 50% of the time and two dice the other 50%, so a chance of either is weighted the same

when we roll one die we have 6 possibilities, 1,2,3,4,5,6
when we roll two dice we have 36 possibilities,
11,12,13,14,15,16,
21,22,23,24,25,26,
31,32,33,34,35,36,
41,42,43,44,45,46,
51,52,53,54,55,56,
61,62,63,64,65,66.

the only ones we care about are any with a 4 or 5 in it, or both, or double that
so....
XX,XX,XX,14,15,XX,
XX,XX,XX,24,25,XX,
XX,XX,XX,34,35,XX,
41,42,43,44,45,46,
51,52,53,54,55,56,
XX,XX,XX,64,65,XX.

XX represents a roll that does not matter
any remaining 1-2-3-6 does not matter so counting those as a single roll of that number we get
16 out of 36 results end up as nothing
8 out of 36 results end up as a single 4
8 out of 36 results end up as a single 5
2 out of 36 results end up as a single 54 or 45 (same effect as single 4 and single 5)
1 out of 36 results end up as a double 4 (44)
1 out of 36 results end up as a double 5 (55)

at a 50% chance those look like:

16 out of 72 results end up as nothing
8 out of 72 results end up as a single 4
8 out of 72 results end up as a single 5
2 out of 72 results end up as a single 54 or 45 (same effect as single 4 and single 5)
1 out of 72 results end up as a double 4 (44)
1 out of 72 results end up as a double 5 (55)

one dice chances look like:

4 out of 6 results end up as nothing
1 out of 6 results end up as single 4
1 out of 6 results end up as single 5

at a 50% chance those look like:

4 out of 12 results end up as nothing
1 out of 12 results end up as single 4
1 out of 12 results end up as single 5

add together those results and you get a grand total of:

40 out of 72 results end up as nothing
14 out of 72 results end up as a single 4
14 out of 72 results end up as a single 5
2 out of 72 results end up as a single 54 or 45 (same effect as single 4 and single 5)
1 out of 72 results end up as a double 4 (44)
1 out of 72 results end up as a double 5 (55)

or if you prefer %'s:

  1. 55% results end up as nothing
  2. 45% results end up as a single 4
  3. 45% results end up as a single 5
  4. 77% results end up as a single 54 or 45 (same effect as single 4 and single 5)
  5. 39% results end up as a double 4 (44)
  6. 39% results end up as a double 5 (55)

now onto actual effects, lets do crit first, since it's harder

the roll %'s that matter to crit only deal with the number 4, so lets take the previous equation and add all that contain strictly 5's to nothing

  1. 55% results end up as nothing
  2. 45% results end up as a single 4
  3. 45% results end up as a single 5
  4. 77% results end up as a single 54 or 45 (same effect as single 4 and single 5)
  5. 39% results end up as a double 4 (44)
  6. 39% results end up as a double 5 (55)

to

  1. 39% results end up as nothing
  2. 22% results end up as a single 4
  3. 39% results end up as a double 4 (44)

the crit formula is:
( Crit rate ( min crit damage + max crit damage)/2) + 1

our base crit:
((.55(.3+.5)/2)+1)) (= 1.22)
Roll 4:
((.70(.3+.5)/2)+1))) (= 1.28)
Roll 44:
((.80(.3+.5)/2)+1))) (= 1.32)

our true base crit with the double down buff looks like:
(.7639 (.55(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .2222 (.70(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .0139 (.80(.3+.5)/2)+1))
(.7639 (1.22) + .2222 (1.28) + .0139 (1.32))
(.9319 + .2844 +.0183)
  1. 2346

  1. 2346 is our modified crit rate after double down

lets see our automatic dmg multiplier for double down

the roll %'s that matter to dmg% only deal with the number 5, so lets take the previous equation and add all that contain strictly 4's to nothing

  1. 55% results end up as nothing
  2. 45% results end up as a single 4
  3. 45% results end up as a single 5
  4. 77% results end up as a single 54 or 45 (same effect as single 4 and single 5)
  5. 39% results end up as a double 4 (44)
  6. 39% results end up as a double 5 (55)

to

  1. 39% results end up as nothing
  2. 22% results end up as a single 5
  3. 39% results end up as a double 5 (55)

so our average multiplier on double down is:

(.7639 (1) + .2222 (1.20) + .0139 (1.30))
(.7639 + .2666 + .0180)
  1. 0486

  1. 0486 is our base dmg modified after double down on average, about +4.86 more dmg %

lets handle ahoy mateys with double down, since the only thing modified is crit, the only thing that matters is double down's crit, and the double down crit equation looks like this:

(.7639 (.55(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .2222 (.70(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .0139 (.70(.3+.5)/2)+1))

ahoy mateys modifies crit like so:

Muirhat: +10% crit damage
((.55(.4+.6)/2)+1))) (= 1.275)
Valerie: +10% crit rate
((.65(.3+.5)/2)+1))) (= 1.26)
Jack: nothing
((.55(.3+.5)/2)+1))) (= 1.22)

so the entire equation looks like:

.3333 (.7639 (.55(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .2222 (.70(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .0139 (.80(.3+.5)/2)+1)) + .3333 (.7639 (.65(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .2222 (.80(.3+.5)/2)+1) + .0139 (.90(.3+.5)/2)+1)) + .3333 (.7639 (.55(.4+.6)/2)+1) + .2222 (.70(.4+.6)/2)+1) + .0139 (.870(.4+.6)/2)+1))

simplify

.3333 (.7639 (1.22) + .2222 (1.28) + .0139 (1.32)) + .3333 (.7639 (1.26) + .2222 (1.32) + .0139 (1.36)) + .3333 (.7639 (1.275) + .2222 (1.35) + .0139 (1.4))
.3333 (.9319 + .2844 +.0183) + .3333 (.962514 + .2933 + .0189) + .3333 (.9739 + .2999 + .0194)
.3333 (1.2346) + .3333 (1.274714) + .3333 (1.2932)
.41149 + .42486 + .43102
  1. 2673

so, with double down and ahoy mateys, on average we will see a 1.2673 crit damge multiplier, vs our normal 1.22 crit multiplier average it's a nice increase
and our damage multiplier from double down is 1.0486


MOBBING, ELE vs SS:
Beesafree:
Sairs have speed 5 gun which alters ele's speed to 1140, booster raises 2 levels, makes it 990ms, .99 seconds
  1. 01 attacks per second

mercs have speed 6 dual bow guns, which alters Stunning Strikes speed to 600, with a 1 speed atk increase and the booster inreasing another 2 levels, makes it 500ms, .50 seconds
2 attacks per second

SAIRS:
ELE deals 590% damage 4 times on a max of 6 enemies
14160% per skill use, max targets
9440% per skill use, 4 targets

MERCS:
SS deals 140% damage 4 times on a max of 4 enemies
2240% per skill use, max targets

The equation, first pass, not including: double down (sair), Ahoy mateys (secondary effect of the crew, not the 10% dmg) (sair), parrotargetting (Sair, not used in mobbing - usually)
i will add an advantage to the losing party, and will most likely make 4 passes or more so a written out verbal version of this equation looks like: (sair on the left, merc on the right)

ELE's dmg % * #of targets hit * times hit * rate of attack for ele * weapon multiplier(double down average bonus multiplier( damage range sans buffs (Sairs modified Crit multiplier)) + (# of targets hit * Majestic Presence (sairs FA) Dmg % * rate of attack for ele * weapon multiplier(double down average bonus multiplier(damage range sans buffs (Sairs modified Crit multiplier)) = StunStrikes Dmg % * times hit * #of targets hit * rate of attack for StunStrikes * weapon multiplier (damage % increase from other additions ( (damage range sans buffs + added damage from other effects)((( Crit rate ( min crit damage + max crit damage)/2) + 1 ))) + (#of targets hit * FA dmg % * Hit rate * rate of attack for StunStrikes * weapon multiplier(damage % increase from other additions ( (damage range sans buffs + added damage from other effects)((( Crit rate ( min crit damage + max crit damage)/2) + 1 )))

FIRST PASS, 6 targets, 21% dex arrows

  1. 9 * 6 * 4 * 1.01 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2673))) + (6 * .7 * 1.01 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2673)))) = 1.4 * 4 * 4 * 2 * 1.3(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + (4 * 1.75 * .7 * 2 * 1.3(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))))

Simplify!
  1. 7031x + 9.019x = 69.014 ((x+10266.66)(1.255)) + (15.096 ((x+10266.66)(1.255)))
  2. 722x = 84.110 ((x+10266.66)(1.255))
  3. 722x = 105.558 (x+10266.66)
  4. 722x = 105.558x + 1,083,728.096
  5. 164x = 1,083,728.096
x = 6601.4917

this means sair needs only 6602 min range in order to outclass a merc of the same level while the merc has arrows that apply 21% dex, and has a weapon of equal value (mercs are 28 atk better)
this assumes 6 targets constantly, sair easily wins, 7k range is a puny range

SECOND PASS, 4 targets only, 21% dex arrows

  1. 9 * 4 * 4 * 1.01 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2673))) + (4 * .7 * 1.01 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2673)))) = 1.4 * 4 * 4 * 2 * 1.3(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + (4 * 1.75 * .7 * 2 * 1.3(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))))

the mercs side doesnt change so we will plop that in right now, also we'll simplify the sairs side a bit

  1. 801x + 6.0119x = 105.558x + 1,083,728.096
  2. 813x = 105.558x + 1,083,728.096
  3. 813x = 105.558x + 1,083,728.096
  4. 255x = 1,083,728.096
x = 14594.5759

still rather pathetic, when looking at the skills ELE and stunning strikes, ele is superior in terms of dps/dpm
mercs cant compete with sairs in terms of mobbing at high damage targets
i cant give any more advantage to mercs, its obvious mercs are easy to beat here
next we will handle the mercs combo.


MOBBING: Mercs Combo VS ELE:
Beesafree:
we know the info for ELE, it's in the Mobbing: SS vs ELE

lets check out the mercs combo, the combo is:

Rising Rush > Rolling Moonsault > Leaf Tornado > Leaf Tornado

as for damage they do:
Rising Rush: 200% (first attack), 280% (Launch Damage) (+50% from Rolling Moonsault, +20% from Aerial Barrage) [on 8 enemies]
Rolling Moonsault: 170% (+30% from Rising Rush not added) [on 8 enemies, 6 times]
Leaf Tornado: 165% (+30% from Rising Rush not added, +30% from Spikes Royale) [on 8 enemies, 4 times]

rising rushes bonus does not activate on monster at lhc, so we will not include them

so per skill use they do:

Rising Rush: 3840%
Rolling Moonsault: 8160%
Leaf Tornado: 5280%

Their delay is, with the 1 atk speed boost they get from mercs beginner skill and they gain a 2 atk speed boost from booster

Skillname: MS delay
Rising Rush: 510 ms
Rolling Moonsault: 660 ms
Leaf Tornado: 630 ms

in total, with no delay in between attacks the total is 2430 ms, with % as they currently stand that is 9283.95 %/Sec

FIRST PASS: 8 Targets, 21% dex arrows
ok formula time, its about to get heavy
and since this is three moves hitting the same number of enemies multiple times, and i already have the %/sec, we will use that instead of the longer drawn out formula

  1. 9 * 6 * 4 * 1.01 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2673))) + (6 * .7 * 1.01 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2673)))) = 92.8395 * 1.3(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + (8 * 4 * .4115 * 1.75 * .7 * 1.3(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))))

FA for merc is calculated as: # of targets hit * # of skills used * rate of fire for the entire combo * damage of FA * rate of FA activating * wep multiplier
Sairs side is unchanging from the first pass, we will substitute the answer from that right away and simplify the merc side some

  1. 722x = 143.0191 ((x+10266.66)(1.255)) + (24.8494 (x+10266.66)(1.255))
  2. 722x = 167.8685 ((x+10266.66)(1.255))
  3. 722x = 210.6750 (x+10266.66)
  4. 722x = 210.6750x + 2,162,929.4278
  5. 047x = 2,162,929.4278
x = 36,630.64

actually quite impressive here
mercs out classes a sair when a equivalent sair's range is less than 36,630.64
otherwise sairs, this is a very probable working range

of course this assumes the merc can hit at a consistant rate and timing, casting all skills before the merc lands, and casting all in sequence without delay, a person with perfect reflexes, but, still probable situation


SUMMONS:
Beesafree:
due to the high demand that i include summons somewhere, here they are, this will compare the corsairs 2 summons, Octo-Cannon and All aboard, against the mercs summon, Elemental Knights

in my opinion, this info will be generally useless because the corsairs summons CAN NOT keep any reliable dpm, it is all over the map from one minute to the next, so to combat this we assume that both summons have constant access to a target and spam thier attacks as fast as they can, we will not consider there summon time, both are relatively low to matter

the stats on the 3 summons in question are:

ALL ABOARD:
jack, 250% 810ms
muirhat, 310% 1530ms
valerie, 320% 1530ms

OCTO-CANNON:
140% 810ms

ELEMENTAL KNIGHTS:
Ice Spirit - Damage: 550%, Freeze Chance: 90%, Freeze Duration: 5 sec 1530ms
Fire Spirit - 550% damage, burns 110% damage every second for 5 sec 1530ms
Shadow Spirit - Damage: 625% 1530ms

the info on summon attack speed was obtained from: [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=57525&p=990766&viewfull=1#post990766]Summon Attack Speed[/url]

  1. 53 secs per attack means .653 attacks per second
.81 secs per attack means 1.234 attacks per second

so lets handle each of the seven cases individually, on dps, ahoy mateys secondary effect is a constant in some (we will obviously average it later)
we already figured out crit rates for the individual crew members in the double down and ahoy mateys section so they are placed where crit would normally go

Jack: (melee)
  1. 5 * 1.234 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2346))
  2. 390x
(639.0% per second)

Muirhat: (melee)
  1. 1 * .653 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.2932))
  2. 392x
(439.2% per second)

Valerie: (ranged)
  1. 2 * .653 * 1.6(1.0486(x(1.274714))
  2. 468x
(446.8% per second)

Octo-cannon: (ranged)
  1. 4 * 1.234 * 1.6 (1.0486(x(1.2673)))
  2. 673x
(367.3% per second)

Ice Spirit:
  1. 3 * .653 * 5.5(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1)))
  2. 532((x+10266.66)(1.255))
  3. 943(x+10266.66)
  4. 943x + 71287.023
(694.3% + 71287.023 per second)

Fire Spirit:
  1. 3 * .653 * 5.5(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + (1.1 * 1.6(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))))

the first part of this one, to the left of the plus sign, is a carbon copy of above, we will replace that right away

  1. 943x + 71287.023 + (2.085((x+10266.66)(1.255)))
  2. 943x + 71287.023 + (2.617(x+10266.66))
  3. 943x + 71287.023 + 2.617x + 26872.243
  4. 56x + 98159.266
(956% + 98159.266 per second)

Shadow Spirit:
  1. 3 * .653 * 6.25(1.185((x+10266.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1)))
  2. 287((x+10266.66)(1.255))
  3. 890(x+10266.66)
  4. 890x + 81007.980
(789% + 81007.980 per second)

so the formula looks like this:

FIRST PASS: 21% dex arrows

  1. 673x + .3333 (6.390x ) + .3333 (4.392x) + .3333 (4.468x) = .3333 (6.943x + 71287.023) + .3333 (9.56x + 98159.266) + .3333 (7.890x + 81007.980)

you know the drill by now, simplify
  1. 673x + .3333 (6.390x + 4.392x + 4.468x) = .3333 (6.943x + 71287.023 + 9.56x + 98159.266 + 7.890x + 81007.980)
  2. 673x + .3333 (15.25x) = .3333 (24.393x + 250454.269)
  3. 673x + 5.0828x = 8.130x + 83476.407
  4. 755x = 8.130x + 83476.407
.625x = 83476.407
x = 133,386.1814

what does this mean?
not much
like i stated sairs summons are so random that it throws this equation out the window, but
if all summons could attack constantly...
a merc beats out a sair in their summons by quite a bit even, a very high range is required of a sair to be on par with a mercs summon

this is offset by the fact that mobs die, meaning a sair could cover more of the map at the same time it is attacking a different area, avoiding the need to move, avoiding any down time with the summons, but all this is so situational, that summons just can not be considered


BOSSING:
Beesafree:
since pdr is monster based we assume a 50% pdr on bosses, this would be chaos zak or chaos horntail
this means the % pdr changes into a pure dmg bonus (20% pdr = +20% dmg)

lets examine their moves first

Sair has a hurricane-esque skill called rapidfire, it does 330% damage per shot at a speed of 1 bullet per 120ms or 8.33 shots per second, including a final attack that activates 100% of the time for 70% damage
the RF does:
  1. 9% per second + MjP

Merc has a hurricane-esque skill called Ishtar's ring, it does 110% damage per arrow at a speed of 2 arrows per 120ms or 16.66 arrows per second, including a final attack that activates 70% of the time for 175% damage
The IR does:
  1. 6% per second + FA

Mercs have a debuff on their move spike royale, and i am told they use it vigorously at bosses (@Razgorth: )

Spikes royale, with a base 6 bowgun speed with a bonus of 3 wep atk speed making spikes royale attack at a delay of 690 ms
it deals 520% at a 100% crit rate on 12 enemies twice (we consider 1 mob at a boss)
it debuffs all hit monsters for 15 seconds with -20% def

we will be comparing on a dps formula (smaller numbers, easier to understand) so we need to know what percentage of this combo is taken up by casting spikes royale

since the debuff lasts 15 seconds we assume IR hits for a total of 15 seconds
the other part of this, spikes royale lasts for .69 seconds

spikes royale lasts for 4.397% of the combo while IR takes up the other 95.6022%

the attacks per second on spikes royale is 1.4492 attacks per second

....
so...
the big formula looks like this:

RF dmg% * RF rate of fire * wep multiplier (Single target attack bonus ( Double down dmg % bonus (x(Sairs Modified Crit Rate))) + (RF rate of fire * MjP Dmg% * wep multiplier (Single target attack bonus ( Double down dmg % bonus (x(Sairs Modified Crit Rate))) = % of combo that is Spikes Royale (Spikes Royale dmg% * Spikes Royale Rate of fire * Wep Multiplier (Boss % from arrows(DMg % from pdr and other adjusted buffs((x + extra attack range from weapon)(((crit rate of spikes royale (crit min + crit max)/2)+1))) + % of combo that is Spikes Royale ( Spikes Royale Rate of fire * Total FA dmg% * FA rate of activating * Wep Multiplier (Boss % from arrows(DMg % from pdr and other adjusted buffs((x + extra attack range from weapon)((( crit rate (crit min + crit max)/2)+1))) + % of combo that is IR (IR dmg% * IR Rate of fire * times IR Hits * Wep Multiplier (Boss % from arrows(DMg % from pdr and other adjusted buffs((x + extra attack range from weapon)(((crit rate (crit min + crit max)/2)+1))) + % of combo that is IR (IR Rate of fire * Total FA dmg% * FA rate of activating * Wep Multiplier (Boss % from arrows(DMg % from pdr and other adjusted buffs((x + extra attack range from weapon)(((crit rate (crit min + crit max)/2)+1)))

and with numbers

FIRST PASS: 70% boss arrows

  1. 3 * 8.33 * 1.6(1.2(1.0486(x(1.2673))) + ( 8.33 * .7 * 1.6(1.2(1.0486(x(1.2673)))) = .04397 (5.2 * 1.4492 * 1.3(1.7(1.315(x+4666.66)(((1(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + .04397 (1.4492 * 1.75 * .7 * 1.3(1.7(1.515(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))))) + .956022 (1.1 * 8.33 * 2 * 1.3(1.7(1.515(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + .956022 (8.33 * 1.75 * .7 * 1.3(1.7(1.515(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1)))))

simplify?

  1. 1373x + 14.8776x = .04397 (21.9002((x+4666.66)(1.425)) + .04397 (5.9438((x+4666.66)(1.255)) + .956022 (61.3581(x+4666.66)(1.255)) + .956022 (34.16535(x+4666.66)(1.255)))
  2. 0149x = 1.3722 (x+4666.66) + .3279 (x+4666.66) + 73.6179 (x+4666.66) + 40.9918 (x+4666.66)
  3. 0149x = 116.3098 (x+4666.66)
  4. 0149x = 116.3098x + 542778.2913
-31.2949x = 542778.2913
x = -17,343.9854

this means a merc is infinitely better than the sair
the sair never has a period where it beats an equivalent merc with a 70% boss arrow

SECOND PASS: no pot on arrows (Even Funding)

  1. 3 * 8.33 * 1.6(1.2(1.0486(x(1.2673))) + ( 8.33 * .7 * 1.6(1.2(1.0486(x(1.2673)))) = .04397 (5.2 * 1.4492 * 1.3(1.315(x+4666.66)(((1(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + .04397 (1.4492 * 1.75 * .7 * 1.3(1.515(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))))) + .956022 (1.1 * 8.33 * 2 * 1.3(1.515(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1))) + .956022 (8.33 * 1.75 * .7 * 1.3(1.515(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1)))))

sairs side does not change at all, we can replace his side with his answer from the previous equation, and simplify mercs

  1. 0149x = .04397 (12.8824((x+4666.66)(1.425)) + .04397 (3.4963((x+4666.66)(1.255)) + .956022 (36.093(x+4666.66)(1.255)) + .956022 (20.0972(x+4666.66)(1.255)))
  2. 0149x = .8071(x+4666.66) + .1929(x+4666.66) + 43.3046(x+4666.66) + 24.1128(x+4666.66)
  3. 0149x = 68.4174 (x+4666.66)
  4. 0149x = 68.4174x + 319280.7439
  5. 2425x = 319280.7439
x = 256947.41

Sairs pass merc with even funding
assuming no cap
sairs will pass mercs when their damage range equals 256947.41 before the wep multi
or...
  1. 856 after the wep multi
fairly high range, to hit cap with RF it takes 303,030 range after multi, so we will hit cap before we beat mercs

Third PASS: IR only, no pot on arrows (Even Funding)

  1. 3 * 8.33 * 1.6(1.2(1.0486(x(1.2673))) + ( 8.33 * .7 * 1.6(1.2(1.0486(x(1.2673)))) = 1.1 * 8.33 * 2 * 1.3(1.315(x+4666.66)(((.6(.35+.5)/2)+1)) + 8.33 * 1.75 * .7 * 1.3(1.315(x+4666.66)(.6(.35+.5)/2)+1)))

sairs side does not change at all, we can replace his side with his answer from the previous equation, and simplify mercs

  1. 0149x = 31.3282(x+4666.66)(1.255)) + 17.4441(x+4666.66)(1.255))
  2. 0149x = 39.3168 (x+4666.66) + 21.8924(x+4666.66)
  3. 0149x = 61.2092 (x+4666.66)
  4. 0149x = 61.2092x + 285642.5233
  5. 8057x = 285642.5233
x = 11998.91309

sair can pass merc!
at a 11998.91309 clean range before wep multi
with wep multi it is 19199!

thats a very reasonable range, a sair will beat out its merc equivalent when the merc only uses IR


The Too long didnt read part:

("range" is considered before a weapon modifier, to know the range you'd see in the stats screen clean, multiply a sairs number by 1.6 and a mercs number by 1.3, also while mobbing mercs have a +10266.66 modifier to their range, while bossing +4666.66, add that before the wep multiplier)

at 14.6k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent in mobbing while the merc is only using Stunning Strikes (even with the extra pot from the arrows)
at 36.7k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent in mobbing even if the merc uses "The Merc combo" (even with the extra pot from the arrows)

at 133.4k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent in summons, a quite ridiculous range to achieve, see summons section for more info

a merc will be better than the equivalent sair at bossing, if the merc is using spikes royale
  • *at 11.9k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent in bossing while the merc is only using Ishtar's Ring (even funding)/b]

AFTER WEP MULTI:

at 23.4k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent (32.4k range) in mobbing while the merc is only using Stunning Strikes (even with the extra pot from the arrows)
at 58.8k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent (61.1k range) in mobbing even if the merc uses "The Merc combo" (even with the extra pot from the arrows)

at 213.5k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent (186.9k range) in summons, a quite ridiculous range to achieve, see summons section for more info

a merc will be better than the equivalent sair at bossing, if the merc is using spikes royale
at 19.1k range or more a sair will always beat its merc equivalent (28.9k Range) in bossing while the merc is only using Ishtar's Ring (even funding)

Credits:
People
@Beesafree:
the comparison itself
@mmurrr:
adding the mercs begginner skill that adds an attack speed
@Razgorth:
adding wep multipliers
adding 20 atk to merc side
fixing gun booster effect
fixing stunning strikes damage
fixing a missing set of paraentheses
Mercs Combo info (including rising rush bonus, leaf tornado delay while falling, ect)
Adding Spikes Royale to Bossing
added summons damage - even though i dislike this
@twopointonefour:
added summons damage - even though i dislike this
corrected gun multiplier
@ryuushinou:
Stunning Strikes update
@IMRz:
Correcting AFA activation rate in the bossing formula
Sites:
@Basil:
general moves
@MapleWiki:
Specific move effects, more detailed
Double down effect
Roll of the die effect
@MapleArchive:
Attack delays
General Move effects
@SouthPerry:
Crit Formula
Range Formula
Summon Attack Delay
Posted: September 2012 Permalink

Replies

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sleepyheadXIII Level 200 Windia Corsair
Nice stuff. All though in the newest kmst update seems everyone gets a 2ndary weapon;
www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=59760
Also, probably be nice to show at what point sair hits damage cap and mercedes' range to pass that, and what not.

Edit; also if doing what I'm asking should probably change RF and MJ to 300/100 since those will be the new numbers in a few months soon. (getting really tired of the revamps)
Oh and also just thought of mercedes's hyper skills. You forgot to include that.
Sep 14 2012
Beesafree Level 200 Mardia Corsair
So if a merc gets 70% bossing it is at top of dpm chart?[/quote]

if merc gets 70% bossing on their arrows right now, an equivalent sair will never beat that merc in bossing

EDIT:

@sleepyheadxiii
yeah thats a good point - because that does happen, since mercs do have a lower % they will eventually pass sairs
Sep 14 2012
sleepyheadXIII Level 200 Windia Corsair
if merc gets 70% bossing on their arrows right now, an equivalent sair will never beat that merc in bossing

EDIT:

@sleepyheadvii
yeah thats a good point - because that does happen, since mercs do have a lower % they will eventually pass sairs[/quote]
should probably go to southperry as well to check the delay on Wrath of Enlil since pretty sure that will use that mixed with istar as well.
Even though it's kind of not fair to compare the two since one has hyper skills and one doesn't, should probably include those since it seems that mercedes will have them for a long time while we are waiting for ours.
orangemushroom.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/kms-ver-1-2-171-beginning-of-evolution-hyper-skills/
Sep 14 2012
Darkstar764 Level 200 Windia Buccaneer
@Beesafree: So tht doesnt mean a merc with 20k range and 70% bossing isnt better then a 70k ranged sair?
Sep 14 2012
Beesafree Level 200 Mardia Corsair
@Beesafree: So tht doesnt mean a merc with 20k range and 70% bossing isnt better then a 70k ranged sair?[/quote]

definitely not
it is only based on the equivalent sair/merc

a 70,000 range sair's merc equivalent has 74,666.66 range
70000 sair = 74666.66 merc

if you have any more questions, i will try to clarify as best as possible
Sep 14 2012
ImNoMerchant Level 142 Windia Mercedes 4
I can't believe I read all this.[/quote]
Stop being on EVERY thread.
Sep 14 2012
ImNoMerchant Level 142 Windia Mercedes 4
@PraisedAura: Im not stalking lol
I just go on the General, Bowman, and Chat Island and i see a comment of yours everywhere i go.....
Sep 14 2012
ImNoMerchant Level 142 Windia Mercedes 4
Maybe its a sign...[/quote]
[url=http://i45.tinypic.com/2gtawyw.png]Or mabye?[/url]
Sep 14 2012
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