General

Multiple enemies or body parts: Reflect
Single part: Spectral

[quote=OmnipotArc]It also depends on your range and equips.

if you have decent SI but dont hit max damage, reflection is better

If you dont have SI, but hit max damage (~180k range), apoc (if youre hitting max on it) is better than reflection, but spectral is better for a boss that doesnt require you to cancel it.

If you have 220kish + range, spectral is best as it will start hitting max.

BTW I'm assuming you have at least 30% boss, it might require higher ranges if not.[/quote]

Dude, I personally know this man, and he has far from 30% Boss, so yeah.

Numbers means nothing in comparison to actual usage. Use Spectral light for any 1v1 boss / multiple "limbs" in a reachable distance. Reflection is only every good at training, not really bossing except maybe horntail.

[quote=foomps]spectral = 350%
reflection = 420% or 502% with hyper

the choice is obvious[/quote]

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. I have a 4th job lumi and it depends on the map and the mobs and how they're positioned. SL constantly attacks, so if you've got say, 2 or 3 mobs directly in front of you, all piled up, SL stomps the hell out of Reflect because of it's attack speed. The damage difference is insignificant. If the mobs are scattered around the map, like 2 on one plat, 1 on another and 1 on another, Reflect is better because it can hit all of them at once. Don't make stupid statements if you don't know wth you're talkin' about, please. Thanks.

Edit: See? The guy above me knows too. -_-

Ah gotcha, thanks for clearing that up

iVege included it in his calcs. I didn't bother at first since Ender was stronger either way if Spectral was 500 ms

Even if it isn't 2x it should be higher than the base of 333% since it is always a critical, be it 1.5 or w/e

crit is not 2x (this isn't Pokemon!)

Ender is always a critical though so shouldn't that be factored in as 666%?

.54 and .6 from? x_x activation and deactivation?
I'm almost always on Crit Tide since I can't seem to keep my HP low.
and we seemed to have strayed from OT... XD

[quote=GoXDS]I'm assuming the 1.425 and 1.19125 are the crit mods since those seem about right but what's 0.3225?[/quote]

0.18 + 0.54 / 8 + 0.6 / 8

[quote=GoXDS]and even then, I'm talking about when I use Lvl 19 (or even back when it was 14) Ender. it killed a decent time faster than Spectral Light.
so Lvl 14 is 301*7*2*1.425/.81 = 7413.5%/s, which is less and doesn't explain the decently faster kill time[/quote]

Which tide were you on? And the 8 second is a guess.

@iVege: I'm assuming the 1.425 and 1.19125 are the crit mods since those seem about right but what's 0.3225?
and even then, I'm talking about when I use Lvl 19 (or even back when it was 14) Ender. it killed a decent time faster than Spectral Light.
so Lvl 14 is 301*7*2*1.425/.81 = 7413.5%/s, which is less and doesn't explain the decently faster kill time
and there seems to be different delays for Ender so need to retest that tomorrow...

oh, also if we're to compare Spectral and Reflection, I don't think Spectral kills LHC mobs THAT much faster than Reflection when I trained there but I'll have to just check that again as well. Lumi's just weiiiird

[quote=GoXDS]iono... the numbers don't seem to be coming in nearly that fast for some reason.
also, if it was actually 180 ms, 340*4*1.5/0.18 = 11333.33%/s compared to Ender's 333*7*2/0.9 = 5180%/s and yet Ender kills bosses much faster than Spectral (even factoring all crit, Spectral's way stronger if 180 ms).[/quote]

[b]Ender[/b]

333 * 7 * 1.425 * 2 / 0.81 = 8202%/s

[b]Spectral Light[/b]

340 * 4 * 1.19125 * 1.5 / 0.3225 = 7535%/s

This is with Critical Rate Tide (with Damage Increase Tide, Ender would have an even greater advantage) and 8 seconds per Spectral Light. And then there's Reinforce for Ender as well.

@iVege iono... the numbers don't seem to be coming in nearly that fast for some reason.
also, if it was actually 180 ms, 340*4*1.5/0.18 = 11333.33%/s compared to Ender's 333*7*2/0.9 = 5180%/s and yet Ender kills bosses much faster than Spectral (even factoring all crit, Spectral's way stronger if 180 ms).

[quote=GoXDS]yea, completely ignore me... the extractions SAY 180ms (maplearchive or southperry) even if observations are different.[/quote]

Southperry doesn't tell us the delay between hits.
Maple Archive assumes that it's 180ms because of its flags.

As for observations, with an unstable <=60FPS, I get ~160ms. So it's safe to say it's 180ms I guess.

[quote=foomps]Spectral light does not have a 180ms delay, i don't know what class you're playing but it's definitely not luminous. 180ms would mean 5 sets of damage, or 40 hits of spectral in light mode EVERY SECOND. I can tell you are just pulling random numbers out of your ass so show source or get out

and it also seems like 90% of basilers cant do math since the dps of spectral and reflection w/hyper with sunfire buff land magic booster are roughly:

spectral: 350%x1.5x4x(1s/500ms) = 4200%

reflection: 420%x1.5x1.2(1s/750ms) = 4032%

as you can see reflection isnt as bad as you all make it out to be[/quote]

yea, completely ignore me... the extractions SAY 180ms (maplearchive or southperry) even if observations are different.
also, Reflection can't be 750 since...that's faster than Fast 2... and Lumi only hits Fast 4.
factoring in Hyper, we can get 420% x 1.5 x 1.2 x 4(you left this out...) / 900 ms = 3360%/s

@foomps http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=61576

@askmiller: what's half a second when Spectral Light completely trumps Reflection? it can be held down for like 8 secs. even if it's 5, you're increasing the time to cast by only 10%. Spectral still wins by a landslide

5 seconds worth of attacking without needing to redo, that's 10 attacks. add in reactivation of 0.5 secs, that's 10 attacks in 5.5s. that's 550ms delay.
340*4*1.5/0.55 = 3709.1%/s. and this is assuming lower time than what Spectral should be able to do. the longer it can hold out, the closer to 4080%/s

Spectral Light: 340% x 4, 180 ms delay (observed numbers seem more like 500 ms or so so I'll use this instead)
- 340*4*1.5/0.5 = 4080%/s (if it was properly 180ms, 11333.33%/s...OP stuff)
Reflection: 420% x 4, 900 ms delay (Fast 4 since Booster from Normal 6)
- 420*4*1.5/0.9 = 2800%/s
Apocalypse: 350% x 7, 1350 ms delay
- 350*7*1.5/1.35 = 2722.22%/s
these are all maxed Lvl numbers (not factoring in Hypers, which wouldn't help anyways) so it's plain and obvious which is best. only way for Reflection to be better would be if it hits 1.5x more monsters than Spectral. @kayspace1 @SombraManx @foomps @games500

for fun, Ender: 333% x 7, 900 ms delay
- 333*7*2/0.9 = 5180%/s <---- and all crits!

[quote=maple1114]Reflection is amazing with Fma[/quote]
Get out.

It also depends on your range and equips.

if you have decent SI but dont hit max damage, reflection is better

If you dont have SI, but hit max damage (~180k range), apoc (if youre hitting max on it) is better than reflection, but spectral is better for a boss that doesnt require you to cancel it.

If you have 220kish + range, spectral is best as it will start hitting max.

BTW I'm assuming you have at least 30% boss, it might require higher ranges if not.

Reflection is better. I have both maxed and reflection hits higher and all over map.

[quote=foomps]spectral = 350%
reflection = 420% or 502% with hyper

the choice is obvious[/quote]

Not so obvious when you consider that spectral attacks continuously.

[quote=foomps]spectral = 350%
reflection = 420% or 502% with hyper

the choice is obvious[/quote]

You need to account things like delay or speed.

[quote=foomps]spectral = 350%
reflection = 420% or 502% with hyper

the choice is obvious[/quote]

Unless you hit max with both.

apocalypse is the best DPM

It really depends on which boss you're fighting. If it's something like HT or Zak, where there are multiple limbs that need to be attacked ,then use reflection to get rid of those annoyances. Then use spectral light to finish off the remaining heads or body of Zakum. (Although spamming ender is also a great choice)