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What to do for 5th job BUCCANEER/VIPER

Buccaneer Forum Talk about Brawler, Marauder and Buccaneer

believemenot Level 200 Bera Bishop
What are some things you guys want to see for 5th job bucc?
me personally:

-more vertical range for bucc blast
- customizable color for bucc's aura
- invincibility skill
- being able to walk and attack in the air(similar to DBZ fighters)
- octopunch key-down version (9-line rapid-fire anyone?)

Another idea I had was for buccs to be able to select what kind of 5th jobber they want. Option one is fast-paced attacking: hurricane skill but damage cap is 50m per line.

Option to is big numbers: Fewer lines but higher 120m damage cap per line.

Once you choose which route to pick you cant change anymore. That would be pretty cool.
Posted: March 2016 Permalink

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tricks122 Level 203 Windia Buccaneer
Absolutely none of the things you mention. All of them are stupid, basic quality of life changes(Only the color one here) or unbalanced/generic changes that further homogenize classes(And this is damaging to the game for more than one reason).

Nexon shouldn't be focusing on things like 5th job, it's just invalidating even more and more of the content. With how easy leveling is there's already tons of neglected content that even a fresh new player can do, chooses not to do because it isn't rewarding and contributes to an active content gap between the mid-late to late game where players need huge amounts of funds to progress.

Instead of working on a 5th job, they should actually overall the game and make it not based around level 200+ characters and fix the numerous issues that plague them. But if they HAVE to make a 5th job, then I'd like to see old Buccaneers actually coming back in a proper, balanced way. Otherwise I just think it's a dumb move on their part and will keep contributing to the already damaging homogenization that's happening among the other classes.
Mar 27 2016
galbatore Level 185 DemethosEMS Buccaneer CandyLovers Guild
+1 Hehe, I was thinking on making this thread.

In any case, I personally want to see some kind of vertical mobility for our man the Bucc. But, not necessarily in the standard 'up-jump' way. These things are hard to explain, but my first thought was an attack useable from the air only, which essentially moves in a long smooth v formation - from the air, swooping down to punch through any mobs unfortunate to be below and in front, then gliding upwards with the force of one's own fist, reaching a greater height than before. Maybe a little flashy, but I always wanted a boomerang skill like that.

And here's a Truly Excellent MS Paint .gif of what I mean. Now, you'll note I spent a very long-time painstakingly animating this masterpiece of which even Ghibli and Disney would be proud, so consider that thorough proof of my good intent and dedication!

i.imgur.com/X1mGGta.gifv

My other idea for some vertical mobility would be a skill with a different function for ground and for the air. Ground: Launches self upwards (kind of like NL's new Shadow Web or Dawn Warrior's Speeding Sunset). Air: Punches quickly downwards, doing good damage to anything below. It could even be a bit like Aran's new Judgment, allowing directional targeting via command - i.e, Air + Right: Launches diagonally downward to the right, with Air and no direction still doing the downward punch. You get the idea! I hope.

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Aside from vertical mobility, I honestly haven't thought nearly as much on new mobbing or bossing, aside from the fact that our new kit should hearken back to our oldest one, in my opinion.

As you all likely know, there are two kinds of invincibility in Maplestory (Dark Sight excepting) - soft invincibility and hard invincibility. Soft invincibility grants immunity to basically everything except %HP, undodgeable attacks, and Buccs can already obtain near-perfect soft invincibility by holding down Somersault Kick. Unfortunately, soft invincibility is a useless mechanic at the new endgame, and hard invincibility - granting immunity to everything, was considered unhealthy for the game.

But in recent times, that's changed. Shade and Night Walker alike receive hard invincibility through their Backstep animations. Kinesis also receives hard invincibility during his long damned Hyper. Based on that, I don't see any problem with Demolition making a grand return as an attack with a fairly substantial cooldown, but one during which we'd be entirely invincible. Bonus points for doing big damage on the lines. ^^ It'd be a good failsafe, don't you think?

I'm relatively happy with Double Blast and Octopunch though (I know neither of them are that good, but I like their animation, their thematics, despite it all), so I'll leave that up to the developers to see if/what they come up with. If they significantly changed either, it could herald a further homogenisation as Tricks warned.

Oh - I also want a colour-custom aura, though. Soz!
Mar 27 2016
tricks122 Level 203 Windia Buccaneer
@helpingly and @galbatore I wasn't bashing on the quality of life change, it was also asked back when Super Transformation was a skill(Everything from toggling the visuals on/off to choosing the color of it). Nexon doesn't seem too pressed with it, despite how simple it would be(I'm pretty sure Mechanics, and to some degree Wild Hunters, already have some customization with their assets). It's something that Nexon doesn't seem to care about, despite how it seems like it'd be simple to code and would be relatively useful on an aesthetic level.
Mar 27 2016
believemenot Level 200 Bera Bishop
in my opinion 5th job buccaneer needs to be more interesting than just another new attack skill. Maybe a combo system that overrides the current aura/energy system and increases lines of damage as you use your skills to build up the counter. Something like infinite-fists or neji's trigram 64 palms unlimited bloodline technique. 200 lines per second would be pretty awesome.

Also, would be cool if bucc blastuble blast can be angled in different directions like Luminous' spectral light 3rd job skill. Or you can change the directon of the blast mid-stream, like they can with the Kameha wave/ CERO in bleach
Mar 27 2016
tricks122 Level 203 Windia Buccaneer
+2 @believemenot Copy/pasting Hurricane skills and other class mechanics(Arans) to Buccaneers is not healthy for the game, nor is making out mobbing better. There's no point to a 5th job if all it's going to do is make every class more like each other; unless actual, unique changes happen, it's just unhealthy for the game. Depth tends to keep people playing longer, not shiny toys.

@helpingly Pretty much. A whole 5th job is probably going to be copy/pasted skills for most classes. Just look at the ideas in this thread; barring the ones that are inspired by old Buccaneers(No offense to you, @galbatore ), they're pretty much copy/pasted from other classes. And that's a bad thing; we already have something like 20 classes and a good amount of them are already utilizing similar mechanics to each other, so just adding more power can be done with changing our current skill-set. A 5th job is pretty much a way for Nexon to try and generate 'hype' from the community, give us flashier skills, but not actually change much about the game; it's one of those 'decoy' updates that companies drop and advertise as changing the experience of the game, but in the end it's just same mechanics, same play-style, different skin.
Mar 27 2016
galbatore Level 185 DemethosEMS Buccaneer CandyLovers Guild
Note: I wrote half of this post about 5 hours back, but only got to finish it just now. Take the first two responses as being written pre-other stuff, please. d: Also, this is long. Think I'm turning into EternalMemory but with 99% less ukkkkingggg. Basil makes text look so big, I feel like I'm hardly writing anything at all. ^^;;; Sorry!

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@tricks122: (post 1) Yeah, I'm also not impressed with them for ignoring it. After all, Mechanic and Wild Hunter's respective calling skills are responsible for the summoning of the chosen coloured/typed mount. To me, that means Energy Charge could rather easily do the exact same... not that they can be bothered.

@believemenot: The first idea sounds really cool, but I'm pretty much allergic to additional combo systems after seeing how disastrous just energy charging itself can be at bosses, unless they alter both energy and/or this 'new' system to carry over deaths as Aran's combos do.

However, that does lead into what I seriously predict Nexon will add for 5th job - and I do NOT condone this. I reckon we're going to see a 'hyper-charged' state rather crudely fitted onto our class. Not sure how we'll go into it, but I expect the brunt of our new attacks will either require that state or get massive bonuses from being in it (the movement for Buccs as of late has been towards more and MORE emphasis on Charge rather than less!).

As for the last idea, eheh... sorry, totally not my thing. I think most 5th jobs are going to get more mobile attack skills as, while 100-200 can be done predominantly by standing in a few spots blowing mobs away, this changes dramatically in Maze 5 and indeed Warrior Grounds, wherein the best EXP can only be obtained by keeping on the move and killing quickly. I've grown to love Double Blast despite its clunkiness, but I don't want to sign up to making myself even more rooted to one spot.

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@tricks122: Heh, none taken. However, much as I love to hate Nexon, I think you're a little harsh on Maple's homogenisation. Now I know it's a big worry, for me as well (mainly in terms of bossing, where only two or three core skillsets are being rendered viable) - but I have to say Nexon are surprisingly good at making classes feel unique, considering the sheer number of them.

The problem lies in the 2D platform. When all attacks essentially occupy a certain (usually rectangular) space with some caveats attached (number of mobs hit, damage %), it is goddamn hard not to make every class seem like they're just a re-skin of the same 'it hits in this box on its mobskill and that box on its bossskill'. I didn't appreciate what a feat it was until I played LaTale - undoubtedly the better-quality 2D game as compared to Maple, but its classes, while all fun, have quickly evident comparisons with each other.

Even the original 8 classes had 4 that were analogous to another, and now the game has a ton of classes, only a handful really stand out.

6 of the Original 8:
Warlord - chains strong, slow, melee-ranged skills.
Blader - uses quick combos of melee-ranged basic attacks.
Templar - tank, party support, mainly control skills (knock-ups etc.).
Guardian - offtank that uses mobility and iframe chains to stay alive and deal damage.
Treasure Hunter - chains strong, slow, long-ranged skills.
Gunslinger - uses quick combos of long-ranged basic attacks.

I won't list the two mages as they were unique, but I can tell you that Warlord and Treasure Hunter felt very similar, as did Blader and Gunslinger. Yes, you could say that the Explorer Warriors also have a lot in common with one another as an in-Maple example, but through combinations of passives and unique (if gimmicky) mechanics, they evade them all turning into re-skins of one another.

Sorry, I realise I get somewhat besides the point - but I mean to say, maybe Nexon deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not the admins, but their devs at least. If my skill ideas (boomerang excluded, although I guess Jett's double-dash is similar-ish) do have some parallels with other classes, it's mainly because I literally could not think of a way to represent an attack on a 2D plane that has not been done at least once already through the couple hundred attack skills total in the game. Aran's revamped Judgment was the latest skill where I've thought 'okay, that attack method's new on me'. They might be able to pull out a few more new methods, or they might not; but we can't call it for sure here and now.
Mar 27 2016
tricks122 Level 203 Windia Buccaneer
+1 @galbatore It's not really the two dimensional platform itself, but the fact that Nexon keeps making 'x' qualities for skills a necessity for efficient training/bossing. Having vertical mobbing, for a long while, was a huge advantage; being able to control multiple platforms at Lionheart Castle was amazing, and horizontal mobbing wasn't as good(Although it had its moments, such as Carnival PQ). Classes with area control(Such as Mechanics) also tended to do very well, in particular due to vertical mobility combined with Rock 'n' Shock; this was until 4th job, back when leveling was actually kind of taxing. Now, we have the opposite; vertical mobbing is pretty lackluster(Or was, since Stronghold was/is the dominant method of training) and horizontal mobbing is a huge boon to efficient training.

Essentially, there was only a 'middle ground' back when training pre-4th job was an actual consideration, and even then it was clearly favored as to which was better. Instead of addressing the issue(Such as adding more valid training spots; Kritias, Future Perion and other high-level areas come to mind), they just tack on better mobbing on class(Buccaneer Blast is a lazy addition; several classes have laser skills exactly like it and it's really lackluster overall from a design perspective). Core mechanics also get taken, such as Arans and Buccaneers; both work on a Charge/Combo system that is somewhat similar, and have similar mechanics that I'd say pretty much copy each other at this point. The same goes for a lot of classes, where their 'gimmick' is just a re-skin of another class. I'd give Nexon the benefit of the doubt, but that never ends well and they've given me no reason to be overly nice to them in the years that I've played.

End-game bossing, for example, has a few general qualities that your class NEEDS in order to have an easier time. Don't have them? Your success chance is far lower than other classes, and you need to work more for the same output; kind of understandable, but look at the changes that made Buccaneers better at bossing. Specifically, animation cancelling. Shade and Night Walker both had that before, and they just copy/pasted it onto us instead of giving us something unique(Like, as you called it at some point 'hard invincibility', which isn't as unhealthy as Nexon thinks it is; they're just poor at balancing it). They have a lot of unique mechanics that they CAN incorporate into the game, but it's easier to give every class a Flash Jump than to deal with compensating bossing situations for classes that lack it. Nexon just doesn't put much effort into thinking, even with the limitations of MapleStory; most revamps have been taking away from certain classes to homogenize them and make them 'viable' whilst making it so you might as well play a different class if you want to be effective, because it'll have a similar play-style and better output due to the way Nexon chooses to revamp things.
Mar 27 2016
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