AGF's New and Improved Archer Where-to-Train
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By AGF and the Archer community at BasilMarketLast Updated: August 5, 2008 What is the EXP/HP ratio? 1-hitting vs 2-hitting Regarding FA archers and training Maps for Levels 10-25 Maps for Levels 20-30 Maps for Levels 25-40 Maps for Levels 35-50 Maps for Levels 45-60 Maps for Levels 55-80 Maps for Early AR/E, 72-90 Maps for Levels 80-1337 Party Quests Links This guide is intended to help bowmen find places to train, and tips on how to train there. Each map entry gives the map where the monster(s) can be found, ratings, and any important notes. Here is an example entry: Map Name and link to map on Hidden-Street.net List monster(s) that spawn in the map. (Those in parentheses appear in the map, but don't make a significant portion of the EXP.) Spawn: High/Medium/Low (this is how many monsters you'll see) Training Cost: High/Medium/Low (self-explanatory) Movement: High/Medium/Low (how much you have to move; for example Platoon Chronos is High while Flyeyes is Low) EXP/HP Ratio: 1/X (I will explain this later) Overall Rating: A, B, or C I Recommend: Skills, a certain amount of damage, added speed/jump, etc) that would help in training here. Notes: Recommended method(s) of training here, tips, important facts, etc. You will notice that the level categories overlap slightly. This is because the appropriate level to start training at any given monster is often flexible, as this depend largely on your individual stats, equips, skills, and playing style. If you want easier and cheaper training, go for the lower bracket; likewise, if you're looking for a challenge, try the higher one. This thread will never be 100% complete, due to the fact that new training maps are found, new monsters are released, and new training methods are developed. However, we will do our best to keep it as updated as possible. Tzk221's Simplified Archer Guide - basic overall quick reference for archer knowledge, go here if you're lost or new. Bluebomber24's Skill Build Guide - specifically for skill builds. If you need skill help, look here. The Forest of Wisdom - miscellaneous archer-related stuff, check it out. Also has a page that lists the EXP/HP of every monster that spawns regularly in GMS. Compilation of (other) Training Guides - this has some good ones, especially for specific areas. I link to some of these in their specific training entry. Sybaris's damage calculator - useful if you want to know what kind of damage you can expect to hit on monsters you train on. If I have a link to a specific area training guide, it will be under the entry for that area. Feel free to request a link to something, please post it here or PM me about it. This ratio is explained by LordMufasa as follows: LordMufasa said: "I calculate this ratio by dividing the amount of health a monster has by the amount of experience it gives. Here is an example: Brown Teddy's have 950 health, and they give 60 experience. 950 divided by 60 is 15.8. So essentially, it takes you 15.8 damage to get 1 point of experience. As you can imagine, the amount of damage it takes to get 1 experience adds up. For instance, in the Brown Teddy example above, it would take around 65 damage to get 4 points of experience, while a monster with only an experience to damage ratio of 1/11 would only need to do 44 damage. And it goes up and up and up, with the more you train on a monster, the worse this difference gets between a monster with a high ratio and a monster with a low ratio." An important note: any damage you do above the monster's HP does not count. For example, a Pig's EXP/HP ratio is 1/5. This apparently means that if you hit 2000 damage on a Pig, you'll gain 400 experience--but this is misleading. Most of your damage is wasted, hurting the Pig after it is already dead. This is why you wouldn't train on Snails all day even though they have the best EXP/HP ratio. The key is finding a balance between high EXP/HP ratio and a minimum of overkill. And in case of confusion, when I refer to high and low EXP/HP ratio in this guide, high means the denominator of the fraction is low. 1/5 is a higher ratio than 1/10. Think of it this way: a high ratio means you get more EXP for your damage, a low ratio means you get less. This is a tougher question than it seems. Both types of training each have their own merits, and it all comes down to your playing style. 1-hitting, or training at monsters you can kill in one hit most of the time, is often considered the most efficient type of training before 3rd job, and the most commonly used. Lower-leveled monsters, in general, have a higher EXP/HP ratio, less defense, and require less potions to fight. Usually, 1-hitting a monster consistently means doing so at least 70% of the time, although in first job it's acceptable to 1-hit only 40-50% due to the lack of Mastery. More time is spent moving rather than standing and shooting, so movement speed is an important factor in 1-hit training rate. 2-hitting is training at monsters you kill in 2 hits most of the time. Since you spend twice the time on each monster, less time is spent moving and more time spent damaging (and therefore gaining EXP). Higher leveled monsters tend to hit harder and have more DEF, but have more valuable drops as well. Damage is more important than movement speed here, because an increase in damage will increase the chance of a 1-hit and decrease the chance of a 3-hit. At around level 80, 1-hitting and 2-hitting become irrelevant. Level 80+ monsters differ from those in previous level brackets in that they take many hits to kill, have better EXP/HP ratios the higher you get, and hit much harder. The archer's training style changes, focusing more on survival and efficiency of killing. The use of an Archer's defensive skills and characteristics (which bluebomber24 has dubbed the 'Archer Seikūken' and explains in his article about it) is required to survive while maintaining the highest possible training efficiency. The general consensus is that Final Attack will allow one to tackle higher-leveled monsters sooner, while decreasing one's capabilities at fighting multiple weaker monsters. With this in mind, those with FA may find it more effective to train on monsters stronger than those recommended for their level. More information on the skill itself can be found here. Click here to continue to 10-25 training (if it doesn't appear below), or here to return to the table of contents. Replies
So... what makes this AGF's new Where-to-train still? =p New Blog: My favorite guitarists =D
freshhh04 said: "you guys need to add the octopus kerning city training spot." At the left side of Kering? If that one then I dissagree since you have to clear the entire map over and over agian to get their spawn up agian, also not enough people train there to do that for you. New Blog: Quit
freshhh04 said: "you guys need to add the octopus kerning city training spot." link You posted there to...
I was wondering...any way you could put up the levels when the experience slows down for each of the training spots? I suppose i can find out myself, but when I'm planning my skill build I need to know when I'll have to find a new training spot.
Well...If you're looking at it %/hour wise, experience at the same place is always going to slow down unless you're pumping a skill or barely penetrating their defense. It matters more when a higher level alternative overtakes it in terms of experience, and that usually happens when you're spending more time moving than attacking.
Okay.....I agree. What does that have to do with my post though? o_OFor example, voodoos has been good exp for me from when i started (level 74?) til now, with only a slight drop in exp/hour. If this thread said when training would stop being good (lower than 13%/hour?) I would know when the right time to switch training places would be. What I'm trying to figure out is, when i'll have to stop training at squids and start training elsewhere. My AR needs to be at a decent level when i leave squids, so that I can train efficiently at Gobies/vikings; but i don't know what level squids become bad exp (if ever), or when another training place becomes better exp. So, I don't know when I'd need to have a decent level of AR, so i don't know what level I should start putting points into it so that it can be at a decent level when I need it to be. Get what I'm trying to say?
Kalderon said: "Okay.....I agree. What does that have to do with my post though? o_O What he's saying is that if you kill them too fast (and therefore spend more time moving than attacking), then it's probably best to move on. He also said that Exp will always slow down (which was your first question), unless you're able to get through their Def better (higher level, less Def) or when you're getting a skill to a higher level. For example, voodoos has been good exp for me from when i started (level 74?) til now, with only a slight drop in exp/hour. If this thread said when training would stop being good (lower than 13%/hour?) I would know when the right time to switch training places would be. What I'm trying to figure out is, when i'll have to stop training at squids and start training elsewhere. My AR needs to be at a decent level when i leave squids, so that I can train efficiently at Gobies/vikings; but i don't know what level squids become bad exp (if ever), or when another training place becomes better exp. So, I don't know when I'd need to have a decent level of AR, so i don't know what level I should start putting points into it so that it can be at a decent level when I need it to be. Get what I'm trying to say?"
spiritrival said: "What he's saying is that if you kill them too fast (and therefore spend more time moving than attacking), then it's probably best to move on. He also said that Exp will always slow down (which was your first question), unless you're able to get through their Def better (higher level, less Def) or when you're getting a skill to a higher level." True, but that doesn't mean that the exp will slow down considerably (as in the case with me at voodoos). Also, it is hard to compute exactly how fast I'll be killing them (anyone know how much monster def works?); and how fast is "too fast"? I really can't figure this out scientifically, using computations and such because theres just too many variables. That's why I was hoping for people who have already trained there to be able to say when a certain place gets too slow and it would be best to move on.
Kalderon said: "True, but that doesn't mean that the exp will slow down considerably (as in the case with me at voodoos). Also, it is hard to compute exactly how fast I'll be killing them (anyone know how much monster def works?); and how fast is "too fast"? I really can't figure this out scientifically, using computations and such because theres just too many variables. That's why I was hoping for people who have already trained there to be able to say when a certain place gets too slow and it would be best to move on." Yeah, there are too many things to count in for. That's why it's usually best for you to test it yourself. Can't give much more advice than that >.>
But by the time I test it out myself, it'll be too late to plan ahead!
Not really. If you were at say: Voodoos (as you are now), and you noticed the exp was say...15% per hour. You then tried Squids and got 14% per hour. This means you stay at Voodoos. You make 1 level, and get 14% for Voodoos and 15 for Squids. That means you should move on to Squids. you cant really "plan ahead" but you don't need to =P
But after that, I do need to plan ahead. I don't know when to stop putting in points to Strafe and start adding into AR; I'll probably be at Squids until I get a decent level of AR so that I can move on to Gobies/Vikings; but I don't know when I should move on, and so I don't know when to start adding more into AR and stop adding into Strafe. By the time that I know that I should move on, it'll be too late to plan my skill build for the levels that I just reached.In other words, in order to plan my skill build out, I need to know when I need to change training areas, and so I need to know when the exp is worse: In my example, when is the exp from squids worse than the exp from Gobies/Vikings?
Your exp from Squids will be worse when you have enough AR and Strafe to train at those places effectively. It's the same idea, get some AR, try Gobies. If Squids is still better, stay there and add more AR. Max Strafe then move on to AR though.
That's exactly what he's asking, though.He wants to know if it'd be better to pump Strafe to 30 for Squids (if it'd carry him through all those levels), or if Squids will slow down before he has a good enough AR after maxing Strafe (in which case he'd switch and get AR earlier). From what I know, Squids doesn't slow down like V/H does. V/H slows down after 80 because you can kill them in less than 1 hit of Strafe. That's 1) wasted damage, and 2) more time spent loitering around waiting for spawn than actually attacking. For either of those to happen at Squids, you'd have to be well into your 16x. But that doesn't mean you can train there forever and expect to get good EXP. Look at it this way. If you max Strafe out, you will train better at Squids and get more EXP while you're there. But it's going to slow down slightly for every extra level you spend there, so after a while you'll want to switch to Gobies/Vikings. (Though, I can't see Vikings having more longevity than Squids as a training place.) If you get AR earlier, you won't be as strong at Squids for now, but you'll be able to switch over sooner. Let's say you get 15%/hour at Squids at 85 with maxed Strafe, and and only 13%/hour with, say, level 24. If you have maxed Strafe you'll be able to switch to Gobies at 90, if you leave it at 24 you can switch two levels earlier at 88. Your %/hour at Squids drops 1 per level, and Gobies are 16% at whatever level you switch. 30 Strafe: 15% > 14% > 13% > 12% > 11% > 16% 24 Strafe: 13% > 12% > 11% > 16% > 16% > 16% Just an example, and I don't have any solid proof to back up these numbers.
I said: "Max Strafe then move on to AR though." Register / login
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