The Comprehensive, Impartial Guide to Warrior Weapons
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 Note: http://www.profil3.com/show/blog/41120 Feel free to save. If someone takes charge over this, they are free to do as they wish (opensource/GNU) as long as they credit contributers and past authors. Note that this has had two past authors/editors, myself and Senyain. The Comprehensive, Impartial Guide to Warrior Weapons This guide has been reproduced and rewritten using previously written material by Senyain as its primary source. Table of Contents: 1. Introduction2. The Five Factors 3. Damage formulae: Max and min and how they work 4. Attack speed and why it is important 5. Range and its benefits 6. Consistency and knockback 7. Scrollability - how does price impact your weapon choice? 8. How weapons are used Defensively 9. Special info on bossing 10. Summary 11. For Spearmen and Dragon Knights 12. Pre-emptive answering of questions 13. Weapon Speed Reference 14. Credits 15. Revision Log 1. IntroductionBack to top Why does this guide exist? Because there's way too many people who are unsure of which weapon to use, and too many misconceptions about which weapons are better than which other weapons. Some of the worst ones that make people angry, are the "2h > 1h" and "Swords > everything" ideas. There is no reason you can't be unique. Axe Crusaders (Not heros, necessarily), BW Paladins, and 1-handed crusaders (yes, most don't go 1h in the early levels, although its the BESTS time in terms of dpm and scrolling to do so) And this will fully justify the reasoning behind going hybrid DK, and why there should be no other build. This guide has no detail on how to play the game, only as a comparison between weapons. Please refer to the Complete Warrior. As Annihilatron (real name omitted), I have extensive experience in roleplaying and math itself. D&D since v2.0, DM'ing as well, and playing generally most of the popular RPGs (although I have missed a few, due to not having the correct console). I am an Engineering student at the University of Waterloo. I solve problems of interest for fun. While I have not used all the weapons in this guide, it is a matter of statistical analysis, within acceptable error, and simulation, to solve the problem, rather than actual experience, since that is all maple is; numbers, speeds, and calculations. I do not give permission to reproduce this guide anywhere. 2. The Five FactorsBack to top There's a lot more to a weapon than damage. The following are important things to consider when talking about Warrior weapons, as there are many ways to play, and the most important gauge of how good a player is, is not the yellow numbers flying above their head. Character control directly ties into three of these categories; someone who simply picks the highest damage, without being able to justify why, is probably not efficient. No weapon is best at everything (yet), but here are the things to consider: a) Damage formulae b) Attack speed c) Range d) Stability e) Scrollability/cost Again, due to playing style, you should choose the ones that are most important to you. Again, no weapon is best at everything. 3. Damage formulae: Max and min and how they workBack to top Firstly, dispel any thoughts you have that may be wrong. If you're reading this section, its probably because you've heard claims of axes doing 60% damage on a stab and 120% on a swing, or how 1-handed swords deal 70% of a 2-handed sword's damage. Its not that simple, and its not even related in such a percentile fashion. Of course, to a kid out of grade 7 math, they might not think any better, though. Sourced by global.hidden-street.net: Maximum damage: 1-handed sword: (STR * 4.0 + DEX) * W ATT/100 2-handed sword: (STR * 4.6 + DEX) * W ATT/100 1-handed axe or BW: (STR * 4.4 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) 1-handed axe or BW: (STR * 3.2 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) 2-handed axe or BW: (STR * 4.8 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) 2-handed axe or BW: (STR * 3.4 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) Spear: (STR * 3.0 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) Spear: (STR * 5.0 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) Polearm: (STR * 5.0 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) Polearm: (STR * 3.0 + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) Minimum damage: 1-handed sword: (STR * 4.0 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 2-handed sword: (STR * 4.6 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 1-handed axe or BW: (STR * 4.4 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) 1-handed axe or BW: (STR * 3.2 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) 2-handed axe or BW: (STR * 4.8 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) 2-handed axe or BW: (STR * 3.4 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) Spear: (STR * 3.0 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) Spear: (STR * 5.0 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) Polearm: (STR * 5.0 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Swing) Polearm: (STR * 3.0 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATT/100 (On Stab) The 'average' hit is by far the most important element when comparing damage, as it has been proven that the damage hit distribution is random - you're as likely to hit the minimum as the maximum. Take note though, the minimum is far more important when trying to figure out if you can consistently 1hko or 2hko something you're training on. For weapons that are affected by swing/stab ratios (the axes, the blunt weapons, and the polearms and spears), to get the average damage, you need to take the swing formula and multiply by 3, and stab formula multiplied by 2, and divide the added result by 5 (the commonly known 2/5 stab and 3/5 swing). The usual formula for mean damage doesn't apply here. For weapons with different multipliers for swings and stabs, you should do this for the swing formula, multiply that by 3; do it for the stab formula, multiply that by 2; then divide the result by 5. Here's an example of an 80 base dex warrior, with equips on. STR: 435 DEX: 90 Weapon attack: 120 Mastery: 0.6 (60%) Based on the above, his base damage range with each weapon type would be: 2-handed sword: 1404-2509 1-handed sword: 1235-2196 2-handed axe/BW: 1066-2613 1-handed axe/BW: 1010-2404 Spear or Polearm: 953-2718 The above is correct only for 1-handed swords and 2-handed swords. For all weapons affected by slash/stab ratio, you will see the actual minimum damage, being the weak-use term (stabbing for all except spears) and you will see the corresponding strong-use maximum (slashing for all except spears). Spears get their maximum when stabbing and minimum while slashing. You would need to take weighted average of the swing/stab (due to 3:2 ratio) to get the actual average damage for the warrior. The above warrior's damage range, therefore, is more like: 1-handed sword (swinging or stabbing): 1235-2196 (Average: 1715) 1-handed axe or BW (swinging): 1348-2404 (Average: 1876) 1-handed axe or BW (stabbing): 1010-1778 (Average: 1394) 1-handed axe or BW (overall): 1010-2404 (Weighted Average: 1683) 2-handed sword (swinging or stabbing): 1404-2509 (Average: 2067) 2-handed axe or BW (swinging): 1461-2613 (Average: 2037) 2-handed axe or BW (stabbing): 1066-1882 (Average: 1474) 2-handed axe or BW (overall): 1066-2613 (Weighted Average: 1812) For a 2nd job spear/polearm (this makes a difference, as in 3rd job, their damage range completely does not reflect their actual damage) Spear (swinging): 953-1674 (Average: 1313) Spear (stabbing): 1517-2718 (Average: 2117) Spear (overall): 953-2718 (Weighted Average: 1635) Polearm (swinging): 1517-2718 (Average: 2117) Polearm (stabbing): 953-1674 (Average: 1313) Polearm (overall): 953-2718 (Weighted Average: 1795) For a 3rd job spear/polearm, their actual damage range does not include slash/stab ratio, as they control it. However, they have other fun things as well, including dragon roar's default 4.0 multiplier (same as a 1-handed sword). Dragon Knights using Sacrifice will use the 2nd job multipliers above. Dragon Roar: 1235-2196 (Average: 1715) Basically, a weapon with the highest multipliers (stabbing spears; swinging polearms, axes, and BWs; 2-handed weapons) gets the most advantage if the build is low dex or dexless. There is no universal percentage of damage one weapon deals over another; it depends on your actual stats. Let's take a look at where weapons rank in 2nd job, based on their multipliers used for maximum, minimum, and average damage. Analysis based on maximum damage: Spear = Polearm > 2h axe/BW > 2h sword > 1h axe/BW > 1h sword Analysis based on minimum damage: 2h sword > 1h sword > 2h axe/BW > 1h axe/BW > Spear = Polearm Analysis based on average damage: 2h sword > Polearm > 2h axe/BW > 1h sword > 1h axe/BW > Spear In 3rd job, spears and polearms gain dominance in damage formulae as they begin ignoring the bottom half of their damage range. However, there are many other merits to weapons, which include the weakest area of spears and polearms; the following section. 4. Attack speed and why it is importantBack to top This section will lightly graze the surface of attack speed. Most of the important data can be found in 13. Weapon Speed Reference. Powerstrike or Slashblast + Final attack numbers: Fast(4) weapons: Red Whip, Red Katana, Lionheart; Japanese Map, Lunchboxes, Glowing whip, Hero's Gladius, Astral Blade 100-126 attacks per minute (113-117 average) Fast(5) weapons: Most 1-handed swords; Maple Impaler; Ribgol/Stonetooth/Night Raven's Wing; Tubes (1-handed blunt weapons), Paintbrushes and Hulahoops (1-handed axes); Purple Surfboard (level 95 polearm in MSEA) 90-116 attacks per minute (104-108 average) Normal(6) weapons: Most 2-handed swords; most 1-handed BWs and axes; some 2-handed BWs and 2/3 of 2-handed axes; some spears/polearms; skis; snowboards; surfboards 82-106 attacks per minute (94-98 average) Slow(7) weapons: Most 2-handed BWs; 1/3 of 2-handed axes; most spears; some polearms; Beheader/True Fire Sword (alternate level 100 2-handed sword) 80-104 attacks per minute (91-95 average) Slow(8) weapons: Berserker (alternate level 90 2-handed sword); most polearms 74-93 attacks per minute (83-87 average) Slower(9) weapons: Maroon Mop (level 36 220 attack Beginner polearm); Frozen Tuna (low-level polearm), Eviscerator (level 120 polearm) 69-87 attacks per minute (77-81 average) Without Final attack (applicable for attacks such as brandish, blast, ACB, Sacrifice, etc) Fast(4) - ~100 Fast(5) - ~90 Normal(6) - ~82 Slow(7) - ~80 Slow(8) - ~74 Slower(9) - ~69 However, you're never actually going to achieve such numbers in practise, due to being knocked around, or using a secondary attack, or running out of things to hit. So, here's a breakdown to some more numbers that may or may not be interesting: Time spent to attack 10 times with Final attack (without FA in brackets) Fast(4) weapons: 5.21 seconds (6) Fast(5) weapons: 5.71 seconds (6.67) Normal(6) weapons: 6.25 seconds (7.31) Slow(7) weapons: 6.59 seconds (7.7) Slow(8) weapons: 7.59 seconds (8.7) Slower(9) weapons: 8.1 seconds (9.375) Number of attacks in 5 seconds: Fast(4) weapons: 9-10 (8) Fast(5) weapons: 9 (7-8) Normal(6) weapons: 8 (7) Slow(7) weapons: 7-8 (7) Slow(8) weapons: 6-7 (6-7) Slower(9) weapons: 6 (5) Some attacks are also slower than others - Particularly for Dragon Knights, where their main attacking ability uses a speed slower than normal attack. More information for dragon knights can be found in the Dragon Knight Section. Fast attacks have good and bad traits, including occasionally, faster kills, and faster reaction time (since weapon swing time is less). An example of reaction time would be to jump onto a platform with an approaching monster; the fast weapon would be able to swing in time to KB the monster, while a normal or slow weapon probably would not. Taking more hits to kill something is not always bad (especially at higher levels). If the 1-handed sword takes 10 hits to kill something and the 2h takes 9, the 1-handed is still faster. However, the 2-handed kills faster if it takes 3 to the 1-handed's 4. It all depends on the actual number of hits involved. Fast attacks can both prevent you from taking a lot of damage, and cause you to take more. This is discussed later in defencive weapon tactics. As long as you know how to use the 1-handed weapon, most of the time, the faster weapon will be the faster killer. Most of the time, throughout your maple life, the two weapon types will be within 1 hit of each other when looking at number of hits to kill. However, the 1-handed weapon's commonly stated weaknesses in 2nd and 3rd job, namely, knockback and range, are also important, although, maybe not so much weaknesses as you might think. Analysis based on attack speed: 1h sword (with exceptions) + Lionheart and Japanese Map > Stonetooth/Night Raven's Wing > 1h axe/BW = 2h sword > 2h axe/BW > Polearm > Spear Musings about Wind Booster: Current weapon booster increases speed by roughly two speed levels, with experimental cap being fast-4/boosted, as faster-3/boosted (fushion mace + booster) appears to be the same speed or marginally faster than fast-4/boosted. However, no testing has been done with wind booster to see what it actually does - a test would be something like a RK/boosted/wind vs a DSR/boosted/wind to see if they have the same attacks/minute. However, there are two schools of though here, one that booster increases speed by a static amount (removes a constant # of frames, which corresponds to speed levels anyway), or that it actually reduces speed levels. If it is the first item, then wind booster should have an effect, although minimal as theoretical speed cap is reached (which is really close to fast-4 boosted anyway). If it is the second item, then wind booster will not have an effect beyond fast-4/boosted. In any case, there are two important things to consider: - Fast-5 and Normal-6 weapons and compete with Fast-4 setups. - You'll never have a pirate following you around on a leash so you can show up the fast-4 warriors. Thus, largely, its unimportant, as you'll have wind booster less than 1% of your accumulated time on Maple. 5. Range and its benefitsBack to top Weapon range is directly related to graphical weapon length. The way the game functions is that when you swing, the weapon length uses collision detection with a monster's hitbox (thus, the missing hitbox of Wolf spiders, Ex-Elder Wraiths, Firebrand 1's, etc, acting as a plague upon our training because we miss something that's apparently there). Generally, weapons can be divided into: Category A: These are the longest ranged warrior weapons, and include spears, polearms, and the longer 2-handed swords. They can hit from far away where you are less threatened but if a monster is right on you, they have something of a blind spot. They can also hit enemies overhead pretty well. Category B: These are almost as long ranged as category A. This includes most 2-handed swords, and most blunt weapons and axes. They still have somewhat of a blind spot up close but can also hit enemies above them. Category C: These are very short ranged weapons, and include mostly 1-handed swords, and the rest of the blunt weapons and axes. They are good for close range mobbing but not so good at hitting an enemy from far away, keeping it there. They also generally can't hit enemies overhead too well. The main way to divide them is to simply think about their uses. Category A tends to miss objects right next to them, Category B is 'average', and Category C is all the weapons that need &%$&*%$&^& of character control to hit all 6 gobies when they pop from a Goby House. What works for you? Category A and B are excellent for knockback and keeping enemies away from you. This is useful in many scenarios, but might make your life difficult in some levels and maps, as you might push them too far away, or if they're mobbing right next to you. Category C specializes in fast close-range combat and mobbing. Generally, there's two schools of thought here; the school where you don't care how much damage you take, and the 2nd, where you want to kill a monster before it even has a chance to hit you. This works well in closely packed mobs and when you have a high amount of moving speed. When attacking a mob, your attacks generally select targets randomly (Technically, you will hit the closest 'oldest target spawned' followed by the rest of the 'oldest targets' - Examples are bosses that spawn creatures - you will always hit the boss if you are close enough). Long ranged weapons prefer control of a mob; being able to hit every monster that is aggressive, to knock them back. A shorter weapon does not care. If you have a mob of 16 creatures, the 1-handed sword, in compilation with excellent character control, could kill all 16 before using too many potions. A longer weapon might target the oldest within range, and hit a bunch of monsters in the back of the mob. Then you have to deal with the blind spot of the weapon. This benefit begins to disappear as you move to higher levels, although is still evident as long as you're fighting mobs larger than 6. This doesn't mean to switch weapons whenever you want. As I've said, character control is the best method to play. Feel free to experiment until you find the weapon that's right for you. Playing style is more important that simple choice of weapon. Attacking from safer range (i.e. defencive game-play, damage avoidance): Spear/Polearm > 2h weapons > 1h weapons For close ranged mobbing and brawling (i.e. faster-killing style defence, or just don't care about damage taken): 1h weapons > 2h weapons > Spear/Polearm 6. Consistency and knockbackBack to top Occasionally when you hit an enemy, you knock it back - "knockback," or KB for short. KB occurs whenever you hit above the damage threshold required for an enemy. In general, tougher enemies have higher thresholds; whereas Mixed Golems take 1100 damage to knockback, easily achieved by any weapon type by level 60, Gigantic Spirit Vikings take 5000 damage! KB is one of the most important factors for a warrior and it is also the primary weakness of 1-handed weapons. A weapon's ability to knockback is partially a factor of its maximum damage, and partially a factor of its minimum. As earlier, swords are most stable, while spears, polearms, axes and blunt weapons deal much less damage on one type of attack than they do on the other. Higher maximum damage might mean you can knock a monster back earlier, but that's not useful unless you can do it 100% of the time. Generally, KB is linked to minimum damage, which is what is referred to as stability. Swords are best for stability, with 1-handed swords taking the cake in damage over time. In 3rd job, Spears and Polearms become stable. Eventually, most weapons will KB an enemy. But, with final attack activating, the final attack may not only fail to KB (especially if using slashblast), but MIGHT deactivate the previous KB and send the enemy flying into you. This is largely an issue of hitting the enemy during a certain frame of KB animation, and largely a problem on certain enemies. Experiment and find out for yourself how your weapon KB's, and adjust your playing accordingly. Some more info from Ryannosaur3, specific to Crusaders and their main training spot, Gobies: 2400 is the minimum base to 1-hit Gobies with Coma. Assume 700 STR and 100 DEX (~ level 125-135) With 142 weapon attack for a 2H Axe (Gear: 115 Colonian, 12 attack glove, 12 attack elixers, 3 attack Pink Cape), the base damage goes up by ~130 every 10 levels of + 50 str. Minimum Damage: 1966 Maximum Damage: 4913 With 134 weapon attack for a 2h sword user (109 Sunrise, 12 attack pots, 11 attack glove, 2 attack cape). Base damage increase doesn't really matter as they will alway 1-hit gobies that spawn from the house. Minimum Damage: 2482 Maximum Damage: 4481 Maximum damage doesn't matter as much as the minimum, here, as it simply becomes 'overkill' damage. Axes seriously overkill the gobies (and will have trouble if they kill the house in 4 hits). With their maximum, they're doing nearly double the required amount with a slash coma to 1hko the mob of gobies, and still have problems hitting the minimum with a stab. You could say at 4 orbs, the axe user can 1-hit all 6 Gobies with a slashed coma, but they can also 1-hit no Gobies with a stabbed coma.... Dragon Knights' become the most stable during Third Job, when using the appropriate attacks, but often fail to KB with spears, since each attack deals 3 hits that are slightly weaker than a WK or Crusader's Slashblast with their boosts on. This is one of the reasons Dragon Knights have an obsessive need for Priests (the other being no Powerguard). This is a primary reason why all dragon knights should be hybrid and train with polearms until they move from himes to 3-enemy mobs. Some miscellaneous info from Ryannosaur3: Analysis of weapons, based on how early they can KB 100% of the time: 2h sword (3rd job polearm) > 1h sword > 2h axe/BW > 1h axe/BW > Spear/Polearm 7. Scrollability - how does price impact your weapon choice?Back to top Consider the following: - On Basilmarket (circa 5/18/2009), 60% spear go for around 1.8M, 2-handed sword for 2.2M, 1-handed sword scrolls and polearm, are 300k or less, and axe/BW scrolls are often in the low five-digit range. How is this relevant? Simply put, it allows you to do better scrolling. This is where axes and blunt weapons can achieve advantages. When you compare a blunt weapon or an axe to a sword, they will generally lose greatly on damage over time and minimum damage, even when compared to a 1-handed sword. Therefore, the path to getting an axe or BW superior is obvious: skew the weapon attack values. Think of the following scenario: scrolling a level 50 weapon. Depending on your build as a Fighter, with that much money, you could: - Buy a clean Lion's Fang, and scroll it with 60% scrolls. Your outcome would average 8 attack above the base, and 4 STR. (~14M project) - Buy a clean Japanese Map, and scroll it with 60% scrolls. Your outcome would average 8 attack above the base, and 4 STR.(~14.5M project) - Buy 4-6 clean 70 attack Jeweled Katars (these go for as little as 250k-400k), equivalent 30% 1h sword scrolls (1.5M each), and six 60% scrolls. Then scroll the first slot of each with a 30%, until one passes, then 60% the remainders of any winners. On average you will scroll two and your average outcome will be around 13 attack and 7 STR above the base. (~13.5-14M project) - OR you could buy a whole slew of axes, 30% scrolls and 60% scrolls, and keep scrolling these until two or even three 30% scrolls passed on the first 2-3 slots of the same one, then 60% the rest of that one. Your average outcome will end up potentially as many as 19-21 attack above the base - all while spending about the same amount as either of the above projects. (...Probably a 6M project) How does this affect your power? Well, as you increase weapon attack advantage on an axe or blunt weapon, its average damage starts to approach that of a sword. Once they reach the same number, the axe/BW will still have lower minimum damage, but also much higher maximum, and it won't seem so unstable anymore. Using the warrior from earlier, giving him a 130 attack axe vs. 125 with the 1h sword and 120 with the 2h sword. Here are his new damage ranges: 2-handed sword: 1404-2509 (Average: 1956) 1-handed sword: 1286-2287 (Average: 1786) 2-handed axe/BW: 1154-2040(stab) 1583-2831(slash) (Weighted Average: 1963) 1-handed axe/BW: 1094-1927(stab) 1461-2605(slash) (Weighted Average: 1824) But, one could argue, you can also scroll a godly 2h sword with enough funds! This is true, but at the same time you can also scroll an even godlier axe - or use the money saved to get a godly attack glove! Typically, to have the same average damage, an axe or BW should generally have roughly 108% of its equivalent sword's weapon attack. For instance, a 2-handed axe should have roughly 108 weapon attack to match a 100 attack 2-handed sword. For damage over time, this varies as the axes/BWs tend to vary by speed. Now, of course if a weapon relies on scrolling projects, this requires a large number of weapons, as you will be blowing up or failing the first slots of many with 30% scrolls. For this reason, axe and BW use are not for everyone, but for the extremely patient. If you are willing to spend a lot of time to find, buy, and scroll immense numbers of clean axes, BWs, or 1-handed swords, however, it can be quite rewarding. Analysis based on scrollability (lower costs are better): 1h axe = 2h axe = 1h BW > 2h BW > 1h sword > Polearm > 2h Sword > Spear 8. How weapons are used defensivelyBack to top This is more of a section on tactics than facts. There are several ways you can use weapons to minimize damage taken: Here's the obvious one; Shields. Shields are not useless for defence; if you're actually using a warrior shield, you can reduce damage by hundreds. For example, at the end of my crusader life, I had points to throw away. I threw them in shield mastery, raising my shield's defence by a mere 20-30ish. I reduced damage by more than 150 points. While I have never heard of defence having an equality to damage reduction, you can ignore anything you hear about it. The function involves level difference, level of equipment you're using, defence, and the monster's actual attack rating. The function isn't even linear. 1 handed weapons can use fast-killing at close range to prevent damage. Simply killing fast enough will prevent damage. A secondary method is to use reaction time. Being able to jump backwards and land and attack quickly allows for excellent damage reduction. And finally, again using character control, jumping OVER or around enemies is possible. I've reduced pot consumption by more than 100 honsters an hour by using my mobbing technique, requiring at least 130 speed and 108 jump, and literally jumping over each hime and attacking it. A 2-handed weapon might have problems with this due to the blind spot. Also, for warriors with powerguard, this allows you to hug enemies for physical damage (ignoring the blind spot that 2-handed weapons have). Got problems with a boss? Can take physical damage? Push it into a corner and keep it there with your 1-handed weapon. I did it all the time with Papa pixie, and soloed the fat pig when I was level 60, taking the kill from pretty much everyone else with a 92/6 Neocora (Circa early 2008). Most were too scared to bother, as his magic attack surpassed 1500 damage. His physical attack was a measley 1200, reduced after PG to 900 or so. During parts of 3rd job, the 1-handed weapon becomes weaker in defence as it is unable to KB successfully on maps that would require KB; thus, you might hear about 1-handed warriors complaining that they must train at different locations than traditional training spots. 2-handed weapons actually become superior defensive tools during mid to late 3rd job. Lacking a shield or reaction time means they take a lot of damage in closely packed maps like FoG, but once you are out of those and fighting Ludi monsters, the 2-handed weapon tactic of "keeping the enemy at bay" works. If you do it right, you'll save more money than a 1-handed warrior; the enemies will simply never get close enough to hit you. 2-handed weapon range also has an added benefit: time to dodge. While 1-handed weapons have a quicker response time, a 2-handed user will typically be standing further back. This gives him more time to notice enemies such as Death Teddies are about to shoot something, giving him time to move back and then jump to dodge the attack in question. It is less of an issue against enemies that try to ram into you, as both weapon types can move back, turn around and hit with roughly the same reaction time (2h because of range, 1h because of reaction speed), but it's there. In general, the balance of tactics will shift as you gain levels. During lower levels, 1- handed tactics like killing speed make more of a difference, and shields make more of a difference. At level 55, a shield might take off as much as 1/4 of the damage you take at FoG. 2-handed tactics won't work as well at those levels because you will be in a lot of maps that either involve big mobbing, or enclosed space. Likewise, at the higher levels monsters take very many hits to kill and have high KB thresholds; as a result 1-handed tactics can cost you some damage there, as the failure to KB impacts you more when you can't kill the monster before it bumps you. The tactics shift as you move back into 1-handed territory after level 110-120. There is a final 'defencive' tactic, although it shouldn't really be called that. The final style of 1-handed play simply does not care about pot consumption (although does try to reduce it). This is done by standing inside the mob, in essence, always taking physical damage, but getting the bonus that all you have to do is hold down slashblast and hit coma every now and then. This is not a defencive style of play, but rather one that focuses on mob-building and mob destruction. In a way, this in itself reduces pot consumption, although not to the levels of actual defencive gameplay. People that have this style will often complain about high pot costs in places that have high physical touch damage, like Wolf Spiders and Dreamy Ghosts, but still achieve comparable results to everyone else in terms of damage and exp/hour. The keys here are to have a shield, and to have speed and jump to save pots while mobbing. 9. Special info on bossingBack to top In terms of raw damage per minute, with identical stats: Fast-4 2h swords, fast-4 1h swords = fast-5 2h swords > 1h swords = 2h swords > 2h axes/BWs > 1h axes/BWs When bossing, damage per minute makes Red Katana look godly even compared to 2-handed weapons. However, in reality even for a 1-handed user, a 2-handed weapon may be the best choice for bossing, especially in 3rd job. The current list of bosses with floating hitboxes are Pianus, Papulatus, Ergoth, and Zakum. Pianus, unless you have a longer 1-handed sword (like the sparta) and know exactly where to stand, half your attacks will miss unless you jump attack. Big single-hit damage is also important at Pianus, because you need to be able to blow up blood booms. Papulatus, you want to be able to hit him from a range, preferably on a platform, and KB him; you also want to be able to kill his dark stars in one hit, however, there are certain good locations to stand for 1-handed users, including a sweet spot almost directly under him where all your attacks will hit. At zakum, the top right arm is impossible to hit with a 1-handed sword unless you already have brandish, and you will need to jump-brandish regardless of your weapon. In these cases, the 2-handed weapon has some advantages. Once you have brandish though, all three bosses are easily hit regardless of weapon. Paladins will still find the 2-handed weapon's range better for attacking, even with extended blast range, as there will be some things that will be completely unhitable, like Zakum's top right arm. The other bosses are places where a 1-handed user could shine; All party quest bosses (King Slime, Alistar, Papa Pixe, Lord Pirate (and his other incarnations)) and all area bosses (Mano, Stumpy, etc etc etc) all have grounded hitboxes, where the 1-handed weapon has the definite advantage, although most of these bosses become mere footnotes as they are easy to kill. 10. SummaryBack to top Each weapon type, for Fighters/Crusaders and Pages/White Knights, represents a different playing style. These are as follows: 2-handed swords: The most popular, the favorite, the strong stable one. You like to hit enemies from far away, and keep them at bay. If someone asked you to impress them with your damage, you would want to hit the highest number on a single hit on average, with the lowest chance at a low number. You don't care as much about speed as power, and you like to smash things up. You don't mind spending a lot of money and you don't really want to stand out. You want to be like a Samurai, or a GreatKnight, a King.....etc. 1-handed swords: You're a brawler. You like to get in your enemy's face and smash the hell out of him as fast as you can, and you don't care if people laugh at the numbers appearing on your screen. You don't care about being flashy either; efficiency is more important to you than being impressive. You want to be a Shield Knight, or a Berzerker, or a Brawler. 2-handed axes or blunt weapons: You like to stand out. You like to save money and don't mind scrolling the same items repeatedly for great results. You don't care how many times you hit low; you want to see those big numbers that appear every once in a while. You want to be like a Berserker. 1-handed axes or blunt weapons: You go really far out of your way to look different. You like conservative spending and godly scrolling and you don't mind putting a tremendous amount of effort into something before it pays off. You want to be like a... idk, a Dwarf I guess. 11. For Spearmen and Dragon KnightsBack to top Spears and Dragon Knights are different, due to their 3rd job control factors. Except for special cases of weapons being varying speeds, Polearms and Spears are IDENTICAL except that one deals the most damage on swings, but least on stabs, and one deals the most on stabs, but least on swings. Since more swings occur than stabs during attacks, it stands to reason that Polearms have an obvious advantage. And during first and second job at least, this is true. A Polearm user will deal much more damage over time than a Spear user while both are still Spearmen. During the Dragon Knight job, however, everything changes. Spearmen get two primary new attacks in addition to the minor ones: Crusher and Fury. Crusher hits three times, 170% damage each hit, on up to three enemies, but forces a stab motion; it deals optimal damage with a Spear and low damage with a Polearm. Fury hits up to 6 monsters, somewhat faster than Crusher, but only once, for 250% damage on each. Fury forces a swing motion, which is optimized with Polearms and sucks with Spears. The two main DK attacks, Fury and Crusher, respectively force swing and stab motions. This means that a Polearm using Fury will use only the formulae with a 5.0 multiplier, while a Spear will only use the 3.0; reverse this for Crusher. Therefore, taking section 3's warrior as a Dragon Knight, here are his damage ranges with each attack type: Polearm Crusher: 4,307-8,357 to 3 - average total: 20,532 Polearm Fury: 3,792-6,795 to 6 - average total: 34,092 Spear Crusher: 7,736-13,861 to 3 - average total: 34,233 Spear Fury: 2,112-4,095 to 6 - average total: 19,806 This makes it obvious why many Dragon Knights are Hybrid: if you concentrate only on one weapon type, either spears or polearms, you can only really use one attack efficiently: Fury or Crusher. Using both, however, grants you the ability to use both POLEARM Fury and SPEAR Crusher effectively, even if you only plan to use one. Dragon Knights have a few options regarding their weapons. Most simply choose typical Spears and/or Polearms, which are generally Slow(7) speed. However, there are options for weaker but faster weapons. Those who wish to use Crusher a bit faster have the option of Skis, which are Normal speed Spear class weapons, while those who wish to speed up their Fury may use Snowboards or Surfboards, which are Normal speed Polearm class weapons. There is a Fast(5) speed Super Surfboard, it seems unpopular and weak as it is a much lower levelled weapon. However, normal speed weapons do exist for both spears and polearms. Dragon Knight attacks per minute counts, with Booster, are roughly as follows: Crusher (Slow-8): ~58 attacks/minute Crusher (Slow-7): ~60 attacks/minute Crusher (Normal-6): ~64 attacks/minute Crusher (Fast-5): ~69 attacks/minute Fury (Slow-8): ~72 attacks/minute Fury (Slow-7): ~78 attacks/minute Fury (Normal-6): ~82 attacks/minute Fury (Fast-5): ~90 attacks/minute There is much debate over which is better over time: Spear or Polearm. Much of this debate is meaningless, as both work better on maps designed for them. Spears are superior on small mobs and single enemies like Grims or bosses, while Polearms are superior on large mobs like Himes. In general, Hybrid is probably the optimal build for this reason. 12. Pre-emptive answering of questionsBack to top Q: What about shield attack scrolls? A: Shield attack scrolls are still ridiculously expensive, and good shields are ridonkulously so. However, the explanation is simple. During lower levels, the 1-handed sword can easily outdamage a 2-handed sword over time just through better scrolling. During higher levels, this is highly dependent on funding, although still possible, with the exception of fast-4 and fast-5 2-handed swords. However, with the inclusion of shield attack scrolls, special weapons that are exceedingly expensive can be beaten with an equally expensive 1-handed setup which includes a shield. A well made shield can even beat an unappled stonetooth (apple has better effect on stonetooth by at least 5% than any other sword). However, the gameplay itself is the same; 1-handed sword users will still have to jump to hit Pianus, will still have trouble with knockback on Final Attack, and will still be faster killers. In fourth job however, brandish has a fixed reach, so for heroes, 1-handed swords are king for most purposes, although in appling condition (very rare), the stonetooth might win marginally. For paladins, it is up to the user and situation; spamming blasts with damage cap removed, the two weapons are essentiall equal, as the speed will trade off in damage per hit. Q: Who is the best 3rd job warrior class? A: Read other guides and skills and decide for yourself. Basically, there IS no best class just as there is no best weapon. To summarize, each class specializes in its own areas of influence: Crusaders - Weak in early levels but by level 100, become the best against the largest mobs. Also specialize in the most impressive damage numbers and best damage over time on most bosses. They can also stun mobs with Shout, although this stun gets interrupted if they hit the stunned enemy. They get two other new attacks: Coma and Panic. Not counting Meso Explosion, Panic deals the game's highest damage on a single enemy, and Coma deals the highest on a mob of up to 6, plus stuns like Shout. However, to use these attacks they must build up a "Combo," by hitting an enemy with 5 other, weaker attacks like Power Strike. Finally, they have Rage which rids party members of the need to waste money and use slots on Warrior Elixirs, and Power Guard, an awesome defensive skill. White Knights - Deal the highest damage per minute in the game on a single target - as long as that target is weak to lightning or fire. They can also freeze and stun stuff, and have Power Guard, making them the ultimate in defensive tactical play. Add to this the ability to knock back their targets more consistently than Crusaders, and they have a lot more going for them than people rate. One of their finest hours is at level 90, when most White Knights can solo Pianus. Because their stun isn't interrupted when the enemy gets hit, like with Crusaders, White Knights can potentially solo just about anything they can hit, that isn't a boss, without taking damage. White Knights are in my opinion the game's most underrated class. Dragon Knights - Are pretty much necessary in bossing parties, as without Hyper Body, Hermits and Archers cannot survive many boss attacks. Beyond this, their Crusher attack, while slow, deals the highest damage over time anyway on mobs of 2-3 monsters, and their Fury attack is very good against larger mobs. Fury has the most consistent knockback on mobs of any warrior attack in third job. DKs tend to have trouble with taking damage, as Crusher is one of the game's worst knockback moves, and they have no Power Guard, so they party Priests a lot. Luckily for them, Hyper Body helps them with that endeavor... Q: What about 4th job? A: Basically, all warriors get several useful skills, such as Maple Hero (the skill that boosts all of your parties basic stats by 10%), Monster Magnet (a sort of legit vac technique that works about 90% of the time on one monster), Rush (an attack that lets you move very fast across the screen, hitting monsters on the way for low damage to help with mob formation), Stance (prevents you from being knocked back 90% of the time when mastered), and Blocking (for shield users, prevents you from taking damage entirely 15% of the time, provides temporary invincibility, and KBs the monster hitting you). Beyond that, here's what the individual jobs can look forward to: Crusader's Fourth Job - Hero Heroes get two main skills: Brandish and Advanced Combo. Advanced Combo increases a Hero's maximum orb count to 10, and enables the Hero to charge two orbs with a single hit 60% of the time. (This does mean Power Strike + Final Attack can charge as many as 4 orbs.) Brandish is an attack similar to Crusher, but about twice as fast, and hits twice for 260% damage base on 3 monsters. One use of Brandish charges one orb, possibly two with AC, but not 3 or 4. Brandish acts as one swing and one stab, which helps sword users and hurts axe users. Finally, Combo is of course much stronger now; Damage boosts are up to 190% with 10 orbs, while your finishers (though many Fourth Jobbers don't use them much) will become even stronger. There are confirmed 100k+ Panics and 70k+ Comas, unbuffed (self-buff of rage only). White Knight's Fourth Job - Paladin Here we are: the second most hyped of all Fourth Jobs, and for good reason. Paladins get Holy Charge, which is 140% to base damage, Advanced Charged Blow (for 10 SP, it increases your Charged Blow's base damage to 350% and prevents you from losing your charge when using it), Blast (a single-hit attack on one enemy for 550% base damage, which does not activate Final Attack), and Sanctuary (with Holy Charge, this attack deals 900% damage to everything on the screen, but cannot kill; it will reduce most monsters to 1 HP remaining). The class somewhat reeks of a spammable 3rd job Crusader; Holy Charge's bonus upon activation is the same as that of 5 orbs on a Crusader, ACB on a holy weak enemy is like spamming 5 orb Coma (735% damage to mob with uninterruptible stun vs. 700% to mob with interruptible stun), and Blast is like spamming a slightly weaker 5 orb Panic on a holy weak enemy (1155% damage vs. 1225% damage). In recent patches, blast's damage limit and damage range has been increased, making 1h weapons AND slower 2h weapons more viable, compared to the current paladin so-called king weapon of a fast-5 2-handed sword. Dragon Knight's Fourth Job - Dark Knight On the other hand, this is often the most lamented Fourth Job... perhaps the most underrated of all. Dark Knights get a Beholder which grants them 80% Mastery. In addition, they have another function for the Beholder that, when activated, randomly gives them boosts like +25 accuracy, +50 avoidability, +100 weapon or magic defense, or +15 weapon attack. They also get Berserk, which when maxed (you must defeat Horntail to get the book), doubles all damage as long as you have less than 50% of your max HP. This is lamented by many DKs, but in my opinion, underrated. If you're a skilled enough player to reach Fourth Job to begin with, you should be capable of playing at 50% max HP unless you're fighting a boss. Finally, you still have Hyper Body which will always be required for bossing, as Hermits, Archers, and others *still* don't get any boss survival techniques in Fourth Job. 13. Weapon Speed ReferenceBack to top Weapon Speed Repository as of 2009/February In the charts, if you are still confused, it can be said the ROW has ### advantage over the COLUMN or that the COLUMN needs ### more attack than the ROW to match it. Weapon Advantage Multipliers I'd like to note that I've removed all sample comparisons from this paper - it's meant to be a reference. To make a comparison, total all attack on a character (weapon, shield, glove, cape, normal training boosts, etc) and use the multiplier. For example, if you're using a fast-4 1h sword and trying to match a stonetooth in brandish, and the total weapon attack of the ST user is 142 (120+12 (equips)+10(rage)). The multiplier is 103.05%. You need a total of 146.3 attack to beat the ST; remove equips and rage to get 124.3 attack - plausible using a 110 RK and a 15 attack shield. Or easy if you have a level 120 lunchbox. 14. CreditsBack to top In hindsight, I think previous researchers, contributers, etc etc....... - Senyain, WolfJounin, Ryannosaur3, Zenkat, Vaust, WillUPhystMe I would also like to thank the following: Superalmightyon 15. Revision LogBack to top Version 1.3: Nov 17, 2008 - re-uploaded; minor updates regarding weapon speed and brandish for bossing. Will read and continue later on. Nov 24 2008 - updated disclaimer Jan 2009 - reposted (again), added night's raven wing as a fast-5, updated shield attack, updated weapon speeds with footnote on wind booster, updated a few things for 4th job. Feb 2009 - added weapon speed repository, self-done work using references from external sources (other forums), added Paladin note on Blast, revised speed tables as per Senyain, Revised dragon knight speed tables. Added completely overhauled weapon multipliers reference. May 2009 - Blast stuff increased. May 18 2009 - Rewritten. New Blog: Quitting Contributing
Replies
Heavens hammer is a instant damage cap on every monster, of course, leaving them with 1 hp.
iLOLiPOP: I should go to 1h instead of 2h now huh? o-o Its been like that ever since scroll for shield attack come out ;o Fawking bxtch, you stole Senyain's work.
New Blog: Welcome to our group
You can't really claim this work as yours just because you assume that the person that initially created it wanted nothing to do with it. That doesn't relinquish the fact that it is still his. I'd try to get his permission before you go ahead and steal his work. It's his calculations and hard work. Its good that the guide is stickied and all, but you shouldn't garner any respect from a guide that from what i can see, was not even changed.
lol at people having a betch at anni about this, Sen still lurks and if he had a major problem with this he would have had a mod take it down.
You morons, its completely rewritten, and has been for over 3 months now.
New Blog: Quitting Contributing
Annihilatron: You morons, its completely rewritten, and has been for over 3 months now. So what. Who cares. I can take a text, re-write it and claim it as mine. Is it mine? No! It's just a copy-pasta of the original. @Anna: It's simply the fact the asswipe stole Anthony's work New Blog: Welcome to our group
I'm sick and tired of you haters. Would you prefer this didn't exist?
All you've ever done is flame. I hope you die and rot in a ditch. New Blog: Quitting Contributing
Annihilatron: I'm sick and tired of you haters. Would you prefer this didn't exist? All you've ever done is flame. I hope you die and rot in a ditch. loldude. i saw that thread were u tried 2 flame that other guy n got PWNED! he rhaped u cuz u cudnt read n u thought u wer tuff cuz ur like 25 n play a kids game. lol dude go get a lyfe or a job or sumthin. u think that by threatenin to take this POS rewrite down, work of which u urself didnt even do mind you, that ppl will fear or respect u or somethin? lol ur a joke dude, go ahead n delete it, no one cares bout it n no one cars about u. if this crap is evr needed we can just use google cache lolnoob Annihilatron: I'm sick and tired of you haters. Would you prefer this didn't exist? Didn't exist? Why? Did you make it? No. Anyone can re-post this, send a report to mrbasil asking to get it stickied again, and there, we got it again. The only change would be that it wouldn't be ran by some stupid feggot, and that it would be credited to the original author, Senyain. I mean, you tell people who want to post it elsewhere to say YOU made it? Wtf? Lol. You have no respect for people, you have no respect for Anthony, and what bugs me most, you have no respect for yourself. [quote]All you've ever done is flame. I hope you die and rot in a ditch.[/quote] Nah, I don't flame smart people. Besides. You're not only an ass now, but also a hypocrite? I see you flame too, so you got no right to speak. New Blog: Welcome to our group
I laugh at your reverence for Senyain. I have no respect for *you people* because indeed, you are below me. There are few worthy of my attention here, and those are the few that get intelligent replies.
I have nothing else to say about you. If you're so smart, you don't need to post here irrelevantly. And the reasoning for the non-repost disclaimer/referencing, if you *read*, is for *version control*. I don't care who says who made it. Its here. And its staying. New Blog: Quitting Contributing
Annihilatron: I laugh at your reverence for Senyain. I have no respect for *you people* because indeed, you are below me. There are few worthy of my attention here, and those are the few that get intelligent replies. Really? How am I "below" you? Does the fact that you're in your 20's automatically make you better than me? Because seriously, if I saw an adult with your mentality, I'd laugh at your face. Even while being 5 ~ 14 years younger. [quote]I have nothing else to say about you. If you're so smart, you don't need to post here irrelevantly.[/quote] "Irrelevantly". You want to avoid discussion with me. I wonder why you took out "Mainly, he cursed at how he hated his life and his own work. So its not really his anymore." I'm glad you did, but why did you? [quote]And the reasoning for the non-repost disclaimer/referencing, if you *read*, is for *version control*. I don't care who says who made it. Its here. And its staying.[/quote] No one said it's not. New Blog: Welcome to our group
ZemekisFenix: I feel, as the topic of the present debate, that I have the right to be granted a bit of input. Ann is right. I did, in fact, disown this guide and the work's current form is mostly his, and he does credit its origins properly. It was written at a time when pressing impartiality was far more necessary than it is now, though there is still much work to be done (particularly with the delusion that short range somehow disqualifies a weapon from killing faster during 2nd/3rd jobs). But I do believe my original guide, as with this revision for that matter, was poorly worded, overly long-winded and probably the least professional of my guides - in essence, less than heipful for those trying to actually choose a weapon type. I confess myself disappointed that with all of my much better and much more advanced guides being on this forum, this is the only one to be stickied. I feel every other guide I've published since the start of 2008 was much worthier than this one. Ann has the right to cite ownership, as I did not ever at any point in the original guide say I wanted to restrict its usage. Ann cites me as a reference several times and yet has (occasionally with my help) rewritten some sections to be more accurate and updated, as well as less wordy. He also cites me as the original author in both the introduction and credits. I do wish he had kept some of the more vital points here. I did, for instance, first discover the exact working of both min and max slash/stab formulae in this guide, which had never been hitherto discussed or clarified. I did also provide the original edits to the attack rate section after many trials, and he does seem to have replaced them with the (very faulty and invariable) SP attack speed reference figures. And I was also the one who first noticed about a year ago that Crusher attacks at the same rate as normal attacks four speeds slower, from which we were able to extrapolate, for instance, how a Fast(4) spear would function. But as the present guide does not cite these facts, I don't require credit for them in this guide's current form either. Ann is also wrong in treating people here so impolitely. I can understand the frustration with forum members, and have myself lashed out wrongly as well. But that doesn't make it right to say things like "you are below me." I do agree however with almost the entirety of his most recent blog. And Ann, while you do have the right to claim primary credit for the guide's current form, don't forget that the work is not solely your own (you even say so yourself several times) and therefore is not a good reason for unwarranted self-importance. I would like to close by reminding the warrior forum that for any of you to flame each other is against my basic principles and the legacy that I hoped this guide, and all of my posts, would leave behind (one of peace and impartiality between warriors). Your energies would be better dedicated to driving off random asshats who do things like confuse facts with opinions, advocate total ignorance of diverse contexts when analyzing warriors and others, overgeneralize class/weapon discussion, and sow confusion among newbies with gross oversimplifications. Rewritten, modified, changed, whatever way you want to call it, it's your guide and your own piece of work. The heart of this guide is made by you. You don't seem interested at all in having anything to do with it so I see it is pointless to keep this argument. I still hate Anni, his elitist attitude, and how he claims this to be HIS guide. To Anni: If we're all so much below you, why don't you go to SW.net then? They're all better than us over there, aren't they? You'd get along pretty well.G New Blog: Welcome to our group
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Use of any BasilMarket.com content without permission is strictly forbidden.
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