General

@wingless666: yeah personally I hope that they change cross surge, I dont like the way it works and I dont like that it gives us such an advantage

the good news is that crit has a much bigger boost for our damage than most classes, so with all classes at 100% crit, our dps gets a bigger boost than others
(with arrow platter ofc. mille is almost guaranteed to proc carte noir every time with >50% crit)

@ieatnoobz: i have only 5k avoid with over 300k range, i still get hit much more often then I'd like to.
It's high luk that gives us avoid right?
does dex do much/anything for avoid?

@iEatNoobz:
~I wouldn't agree only because %luk is not cheap. Though if we are concerned about damage and bossing~ our magic avoid isn't spectacular high but not
as high as our physical. But if you are funded, you are going to meet bosses that have dot/potion cd/aoe/full map attacks. For example magnus and gollux~
it can be managed with our judgement draw but meh~

@wingless666: If someone's so concerned with their damage, then yes, I feel like they should at least have a decent range which generally comes with high avoid. Even without anything near 10k avoid, you shouldn't be getting hit often enough to worry about crossover only being at full power for a smaller fraction of the time.

@iEatNoobz:

So every phantom has near cap avoid?
~~~~

@wingless666: I don't know about you, but I avoid a majority of attacks with near cap avoid and the standard thief dodge abilities. I also carry 2k ales at all times, so unless I'm in a place that restricts potion use, cross surge is almost always at 100% for me.

[quote=daringwaffle]@Aiacu: in a way, it kind of does. if phantom is doing 31k%/second, AND can more than double his range through buffs, he pulls way farther ahead of any class who even does 31k%/second simply because his range is higher, let alone classes who arent even breaking 20k%/second.

Personally I think Cross surge makes us overpowered. obviously drks are still ahead of us with it though haha
without cross surge we would still be top 10 anyways

phantom does not need the noir carte buff. Ill take it, but we I wont say we are lacking in terms of damage before that

Im actually more happy that mercedes got a well deserved buff. nearly 50% damage increase on 1v1 [/quote]
@iEatNoobz

Cross surge is pretty questionable to add to this considering that skill like many of our other stolen skills are subjected to change. Quite easily in fact ~~
it would be nice to have solid buff to our only unique attack skill. Another thing to consider is that our range isn't 100% all the time, unless you are using a
potion pot. Also top 10 with mille and no surge is questionable even with noir added in since we only have 55~65% crit base.

@Aiacu: in a way, it kind of does. if phantom is doing 31k%/second, AND can more than double his range through buffs, he pulls way farther ahead of any class who even does 31k%/second simply because his range is higher, let alone classes who arent even breaking 20k%/second.

Personally I think Cross surge makes us overpowered. obviously drks are still ahead of us with it though haha
without cross surge we would still be top 10 anyways

phantom does not need the noir carte buff. Ill take it, but we I wont say we are lacking in terms of damage before that

Im actually more happy that mercedes got a well deserved buff. nearly 50% damage increase on 1v1

@daringwaffle: Range doesn't mean everything.

@iEatNoobz: I had a long post, but basil messed it up, sadly I didn't pre-write it, as I should have, knowing Basil. But oh wells, I'll give the few important points I had ready.

Arrow Blaster hits 4 mobs. There goes that argument. Sort of.

AFA is a solid comparison, since these classes hits faster, and that gives them more chances to activate AFA within a minute's time of attacking.

I didn't ask for much, just a delay-decrease for what some old-school phantoms consider to be phantoms signature-skill.

You said Arrow Blaster is stronger than Mille, so how would a slight buff to Mille make it overpowered? Mixing it with Final Cut? Sure, that'd make it strong, but with a cooldown, for those who doesn't throw NX into getting buff-duration abilities.

I had more, but I'll bring that up later, if I deem it necessary.

Yeah I kind of feel we don't deserve more buff, I mean it's nice to get direct buffs but right now we are sitting pretty. Mille buff is pointless imo, personally I started using showdown for mobbing and for leveling it's just better.

A useful phantom buff imo would be noire or piere D'aria buff.

@Aiacu: Arrow blaster is only a single target skill (or two with turret) while mille hits a solid eight with the hyper bonus. However, I agree that phantoms should have more bossing potential if arrow blaster out damages our main means of attacking in a 1v1 situation. That's something you should note though, mille was meant to be a MOBBING SKILL. As for mille compared to other keydown skills, other classes don't have the ability to constantly gain extra hits on criticals with carte noir like phantoms do (AFA isn't really a good comparison since it's fairly inferior and doesn't proc anywhere near 100%). I don't think, and I may be wrong, that arrow blaster with turret and NO carte noir will out damage mille WITH carte noir assuming close to 100% critical in a 1v1 situation. That being said, phantoms out damage many classes with keydown skills. Note that me saying phantoms outdamage keydown skills with mille used by other classes versus themselves is completely different. I acknowledge that arrow blaster used by phantoms out damages using mille, but you should accept that phantom is a job that steals skills. There's a reason we used to use rapid fire as our main 1v1 and use arrow blaster for the same role now. By simply wanting a buff on mille while it's a mobbing skill to the point where it out damages arrow blaster is just you, and others, being greedy. I'd say with the RED update and our ability to steal crossover surge, phantom actually IS one of the easiest classes to fund. Though there may be a class or two that will out damage us with similar funding, we're definitely up there on a funding to damage scale.

[quote=Aiacu]@iEatNoobz: If Mille's so overpowered, why do most Phantoms use Arrow Blaster? 2 lines, sure. But it's slower than other keydow-skill, if you didn't catch that.
Easy to fund... There are classes that are far easier to fund, sir. Phantoms wouldn't be broken. All I was asking for was the same delay as every other skill that, btw, has about twice Mille's damage percentage.[/quote]

i dunno, not many classes get 130% damage boost and 60 atk right out of the gate
because of their buffs, i would say phantom is probably one of the easiest classes to fund right now
sitting at 132k clean, 310k buffed, sounds insane to me lol

@iEatNoobz: If Mille's so overpowered, why do most Phantoms use Arrow Blaster? 2 lines, sure. But it's slower than other keydow-skill, if you didn't catch that.
Easy to fund... There are classes that are far easier to fund, sir. Phantoms wouldn't be broken. All I was asking for was the same delay as every other skill that, btw, has about twice Mille's damage percentage.

[quote=Beheilor]Hey guys just curious, how much would a Phantom need in range to hit 1 Mil with Milhe?[/quote]

Counting only critical hits, around 350k range buffed.

Omg... this revamp is huge...

I prefer a noire buff than mille as noire is in fact the most used attack regardless of which move we use, especially good for Arrow Platter. If mille proc'd with each hit then that'd also be cool

[quote=iEatNoobz]Mille's already pretty overpowered as it is now, given that it's two lines and multi-mob. Not to mention Phantoms are easy to fund and get higher ranges easily, so having an even stronger mille would make Phantoms a pretty broken class.[/quote]

You are right but I can't agree with mille being overpowered. A few things you should look at:
-milles range is short which makes it ineffective at sniping unlike other attacks in its class which
is why I assume the devs allowed you to move while using it and allowing it to mob.

-mille is 300% counting the two hits but it is slower then other attacks also the two lines doesn't
make a difference when it comes to noir. It is a bit mixed considering you only need one critical
every 2 hits to proc a noir but it doesn't apply to each hit which is where the decreased attack speed
comes to play. ~~~~~

-mille is a multi-mob but because of that we don't have a clear boss skill. Milles definitely has its perks
(fighting magnus/gollux ect) but there is a clear difference between ours and theirs. Considering mille
is both our main mobbing(peno being questionable same with tempest) and main bossing skill, we should
definitely have a buff towards it for bossing.

Also, to say one more thing. I thought when nexon made the class, they made it with this outline
pos>neg
-two line>low damage and lower attack speed
-mobbing>low movement speed and short-mid ranged
Mille imo is ok but it could be better. I know marksman have their damage based on distance and other classes
have extra multiplier towards single target so why don't we? ~~~~Just me being jelly and opinionated~~~~~

*cough* text wall *cough*

[quote=Aiacu]Thx. This makes me wish for a Mille-buff all the more. Noir-buff is all in all good, but how about a buff to our own actual attacking-skill. With the sexiness of Mille, it deserves more power. X_X If not that, make it 120ms, like.. most if not all other "keydown"-skills. Or make it give more damage when attacking only 1 mob.[/quote]

Mille's already pretty overpowered as it is now, given that it's two lines and multi-mob. Not to mention Phantoms are easy to fund and get higher ranges easily, so having an even stronger mille would make Phantoms a pretty broken class.

22slot hat...gg
and 500matk staff +200 all stats w/1 slot

they need to change our hyper T.T

True I mean we can't really complain after Red update anymore, but it would be nice to have a mille that's on par with other key down skills.

@tzionmesil: Well, I was referring to the turret. And I'm aware. I just.. Don't particularly like Arrow Blaster. And the reason it sends more cards would be, well, as I mentioned, its delay. Mille is 180ms, compared to most other keydown skills at 120ms.

[quote=wingless666]Arrow blaster turret does not activate noir[/quote]

Thx. This makes me wish for a Mille-buff all the more. Noir-buff is all in all good, but how about a buff to our own actual attacking-skill. With the sexiness of Mille, it deserves more power. X_X If not that, make it 120ms, like.. most if not all other "keydown"-skills. Or make it give more damage when attacking only 1 mob.

Yeh i did find the lack of a buff to mille interesting, i guess they figured they would buff the most used phantom skill which is Noir, especially since with the introduction of blaster, most phantom just use Blaster+turret for dps or other stolen skills for damage anyway (even though i use mille+fc for gollux jaw due to blaster DC issues).

I guess if you think about it buffing noir by 100% is equal to a buff to mille by 100% per attack count if they didn't increase noir, or in short increasing mille to 170 or 180% (can't remember what the base values are lol).

Mixed feelings, buffs are always nice but why no mille buff or why def debuff and no damage debuff.
Really though I am being a hater towards kaisers~

Arrow blaster turret does not activate noir

About time, really. Phantoms deserve this. Sort of. Now.. Anyone know if Arrow Turret activates Noir? I haven't played my Phantom in a long time..