General

Let's just say a paladin with an end-game shield will be stronger and have higher defense than a 2h-pali.

[quote=alex168]@eswarrr: the more total w.att you have, the more funded you are. the more funded you are, the better the shield you can get.
let's say you have 400total attack and like 300% str. vip has 20more attack so your shield needs to make up for 6.6% dmg. being crazy funded as you are, you'll easily be able to afford a 8atk shield with 15% str. this adds almost 7% to your dmg, beating nrw or whatever.
let's say you have 200total attack and no %str. vip has 20more attack so your shield needs to make up for 1.6% dmg. being crazy weak as you are, you only need a 3%str shield to beat nrw.[/quote]

I think I calculated this out on another thread but let me do it again since I like number crunching anyway. I'll assume lvl 200 for max str and maybe 150 total dex. Assuming 400 atk and 300% str with 2H and say 447 (20 more for VIP and 27 for perfect shield) and 321% str (21% str on the shield is insane coupled with 27atk but whatever it's mildly possible). That makes the damage range on the 2H weapon: 86,478. For the 1H it is: 91,044. So maybe a 4.5k diff with basically a perfect shield. However if you use an apple with it your range goes to 2H: 108,097 and 1H: 111,411. So the difference got smaller. As a side note that 27 atk 21% str shield is going to cost an appalingly large amount of money and the clean VIP is also going to be a lot more expensive than a clean NRW/ST (I got my 105 clean ST for only 500mil and that is only 13 atk less than an average VIP and 16 less than a really good one). I'm not saying that 1H + Shield isn't better it's just that, at least compared to a ST, the difference isn't that huge. Once we get the Lionheart weapons they will utterly crush the ST but with our current weapon the ST is as good or better than almost all 1H swords even with an amazing shield. Granted I still think Pallies should go 1H + Shield thanks to their unique skills but for a Hero I think the ST is a good choice.

Get a scrolled Red Kantana(fast 4 1h) and try scrolling a Maple Warrior Shield since it has 10 slots. Believe me, shields are really useful for Paladins.

1h+shield does more DPM, 2h does less dpm but looks cooler

no point going over the details, its been done so many times its not even funny

tiny bit less attack, much more %STR, faster attack rate, even without the faster atk rate, more %STR, and as the 200 pally chick said, youll be invited to Empress runs (and after Legend, General runs) as a tank, a tank dat cant tank aint a tank, unless dat tank can be tank without tanking, like me =D, but i aint a tank, im a tank!

1h/shield>2h if u want dpm

[quote=DemonArmX]It's off-topic because the thread is about the pros and cons of shields for Paladins. Not once did you mention shields. You went off on a tangent about a Paladin's prowess or lack of prowess in tanking at Cygnus. Off-topic.[/quote]

They did mention shields actually. The point of their post was that at Cygnus while trying to be a tank they (or whoever they were talking about) died with 50k HP using a shield. They then tried to make the point that without a shield even at max HP you would only be as effective at tanking as a 1H + shield pally with 50k HP. The entire point of the post was that having a shield makes them better tanks which is what most people think of pallies as.

There's no Captain America without the shield.

I like how this thread has gone around in circles, with maybe a handful of people who actually know their facts. I'm just going to state what I know and you decide for yourself. Some of which I'm glad people above me have pointed out, thanks.

Anyway, facts:
- Despite being greatly endowed with defense, this benefit only derives itself from the skill "Shield Mastery". Without a shield, this passive skill doesn't activate, and you're left bare, defense comparable to every other warrior class.
- Guardian, one of the skills this class is known for, has great benefits. Although one doesn't begin to max it right off the bat, its uses are quite reliable. 40% chance to block physical attacks (soon to be magic as well), 32% resistance to all status-ailments, seduce included. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?
- A shield is another form of eqiupment; that's more possibility to get %potential stats, not only that, shields have the power to gain attack. I'm not going to go out of my way to say you can get a perfect attack shield that's 27 attack or whatever. Most decently funded individuals land themselves a nice 9-15 attack one. That's enough to rival a decent two-handed sword, provided you have a decent one-handed sword. Anything greater is spectacular.
- The majority of one-handed swords are at fast(5) speeds, with no secondary stat requirement. Whether that's a problem to you or not, I don't know, just adding that in there.
- PVP: Yes, I'm going to mention PVP. I don't know if anyone plays it anymore or not, but you're given one Battle Attack per 400 DEF thanks to a lovely skill called Guardian Armor. Unfortunately, this benefit only strengthens if you have large amounts of defense, which in turn suggests you need a shield because of shield mastery, blah, blah, blah.
- Divine Shield activates regardless of a shield present. You'll get the +32 attack bonus and the 6 Guard chances no matter what weapon you're wearing.

Yatta, yatta, yatta. The only benefit to you using a NRW is saving money. Most of the facts I pointed out really only matters in late stages of this class anyway. Won't apply to you much unless you suddenly start wanting to take little-to-no-damage to everything.

All-in-all, what I'm trying to pitch for is, the shield isn't needed, but its benefits far-outweigh the latter. However, you can get away with the beginning stages of this class continuing to use the current weapon you possess and it won't make a big difference... for now.

[quote=DemonArmX]Lazy? The obvious benefits of 1h can be bullet-pointed in a quarter of the time it took you to type that completely off-topic post. lol[/quote]

Well frankly, un-detailed posts isn't my thing, so it's either explain it all or don't bother at all.

Now for the real question, explain how my post was "completely" off-topic.

I'm currently too lazy to list the obvious advantages of 1H path over 2H for a Paladin, but let me tell you this, if there is something that a Paladin can be the best at it will be surviving, and surviving only. Now what will you do if you know that a 1H Paladin with over 50k HP can still die at empress easily when attempting to tank/lure 4~5 Chief Knights (2nd set) at once, while getting stunned constantly by two different types of stunning ? That means as a 2H Paladin, you will still fail to survive in such a condition without the help of a healer or a bait even with MAX HP (yes, 99999 HP), so think about this for a second, what's the point of a tank who can't tank properly ? That's like a Bishop trying to become one of the main attackers in a boss run, it's possible but obviously not worth it.

Divine Shield activates with a shield, no? Well then.. 2H users lose out on the 26atk bonus

@ernest1234: I... didn't calculate it with %str on the shield. The only changes I used from 1H to 2H was the difference in multiplier and the extra attack from using a higher lvl sword and a shield with 27atk.

[quote=Sephie]It depends on what is important to you.

If your 2h weapon can do a considerable amount of damage more than your 1h weapon+shield then obviously you'll train faster with it. Plus with Divine Shield, Self Heal, and your naturally high defense, pot costs shouldn't even be a problem even without Shield Mastery and Guardian.

And even then, pots are super cheap because of the over inflation of mesos. Pot costs stay the same but mesos are worth less meaning an inventory of 1200 ginger ales is practically nothing compared to buying... say... one chaos scroll.

Paladins have the option of going 2h and the option is there for a reason. Eventually you'll reach the cap of 9999 wdef without shield mastery and guardian isn't imperative to have compared to your attacking skills.[/quote]

I don't think divine shield procs without a shield. Might be wrong though.

[quote=anisbro007]@Sephie : Wow! Thanks for this extensive amount of information! It helped out a ton!

I'm thinking I'll just stick to my NRW for my Pally's career.

EDIT: And after I've calculated a 1H + Sheild vs. my future 2H I'll actually have an attack advantage with the 2H over the 1H.

I'd originally go with a Pyrope with 87ish attack clean -> perfectly scrolled (132 atk) -> 8 enhancements (when protection scrolls come back)(164) + 10%/30%d Sheild (21 atk) = 185 total attack from Sword+Sheild.

However, with my Night Raven's Wing (101 Atk clean) -> My stored 20% anniversary scrolls (164 atk) -> 8 enhancements (196 atk).

So I guess that'll work out. I only have 2H 20%s and no 1H 20%s. If I did have 1H ones I'd probably be doing a perfect Pyrope+Sheild than a NRW. Sure the Sheild will have a %Str advantage but I think I'd still stick with my 11 Atk advange + better looking. xD

Thanks to everyone who has helped![/quote]

You Forgot that you can only get 21% Str from the NRW. and 42% Str With the 1h + shield. Oh and, the 3rd Tier Warrior Shields have 7 slots. With 2 hammers you could get 27 att not 21.

Makes it 196 + 21% Str for the NRW. And 191 + 42% Str. i think the 1H + Shield is Better.

[quote=ernest1234]14% higher multiplier isn't the same as 14% damage sherlock. And its a REALLY BIG DEAL especially if you have lots of weapon atk on it.

you would need a shield that somehow gives approx. 35% total damage to match up with a 160 atk stonetooth[/quote]

Well my math was somewhat off thanks to me trying to be lazy and not calculate everything out in long form. Still the end result isn't that far off. A perfect 1H Agares and perfect atk shield will net out 231 total atk. So 41 more attack than the ST. Depending on total attack values and str values (and keeping in mind that the 1H + Shield can have more %str than the 2H set-up) I still think that the 1H user will win out. Let me just pause here and crunch some numbers.

350 total atk and 4500 total str after %str (around 280-300% str). Basically as high end as it gets right now. Assume maybe 140 total dex thanks to all the +all equips we have these days. This gives a total range of: 85,076 with a 2H weapon. With the extra 41 atk along with being 1H that nets a range of: 85,112 and this assumes no %str on the shield which is silly but would make more work for me so I ignored it. 1H wins out at super funding levels but only by a miniscule amount. If you use an Apple the 2H might even win. Let me see: 106,880 for the 1H and 107,751 for the 2H. So yeah it seems to win with an apple and OMG levels of funding.

275 total atk and maybe 750 str. Around my level and funding. Oh and 140 dex again for the hell of it. Gives 11,570 for 2H and with the 41 atk for 1H we get: 11,906. 1H still wins out here but for the fun of it lets see it with an apple. That changes things to 15,674 for 1H and 15,778 for 2H. So I guess the 2H wins again but in all situations it is very close.

As a side not: Thanks for helping me realize just how awesome the ST is. I mean I knew it was a great weapon but never calculated out how awesome it could be.

@ernest1234: Care to explain what makes you believe this? ST is fast (5) just like most 1H swords so speed won't come into play. The only difference is the Multipliers. 2H sword has 1.34 and 1H sword has a 1.2 multiplier. 1.34 divided by 1.2 is 1.116. 190 * 1.116 is 212.166. So the ST should be equal to a fast (5)1H + Shield set up with 212-213 atk.

[quote=anisbro007]@imthelord333 : You realize that a NRW is the same speed as a Pyrope....? And that if I scroll my NRW correctly, I won't even have to worry about having a Shield cause I'll have more Attack from the 2H than the 1H + Shield. Not to include that 2H has a higher damage multiplier than a 1H sword does.[/quote]

Pyrope is one speed level higher.

@ernest1234: I think that would depend on which weapon and the stats on the shield but the ST is a very good weapon. Let me think. 150atk +40 for enhances would be 190 total atk on a perfect GMed and Enhanced ST I think. So I would need 212 total attack on a 1H fast (5) set up to equal that. Subtract 27 for a perfect shield and we have 185 atk which is less than a perfectly scrolled and enhanced.... well any lvl 120+ 1H sword really. So yeah 1H + Shield is better than 2H if you have a good shield. If you don't have an attack (or %str) shield only the 140 1H sword would be better than the 190 atk ST but that's a silly situation to imagine.

@alex168: Well I'd personally rather spend that much on Shielding Wards for a ST than go 1H. I know it isn't as good DPM of course but I just don't like 1H weapons for some reason.

so you will be weak and defenceless?.. wow, even worst than a Drk, at least we have HB..

I use 2h BW's and I am fine with that.

[quote=sapphireno]I'm currently using a devil's sunrise while saving up for a godly 1H VIP sword and shield.

I heard guardian gets in the way or something when you're rushing a monster..? Is that true?[/quote]

Yea, sometimes it pushes the monster the other way, or pushes it some and isnt rushed if you use rush right away.
OT: Paladins are based on using shields, and are usually better with shields with that extra % potential, but can be 2 handed if the sword is good and does enough dmg to compensate.

[quote=alex168]@anisbro007: the tb was correct. NRW is fast5. pyrope is fast4. this makes pyrope like 9.5% faster so 185*1.095 is 202atk which beats NRW[/quote]

Except then you need the 11.66% difference in the multipliers.

@imthelord333 : You realize that a NRW is the same speed as a Pyrope....? And that if I scroll my NRW correctly, I won't even have to worry about having a Shield cause I'll have more Attack from the 2H than the 1H + Shield. Not to include that 2H has a higher damage multiplier than a 1H sword does.

@Sephie: Well, I personally don't like the looks of the ST and my NRW basically almost has the same amount of attack right now clean...

[quote=anisbro007]@Sephie : Wow! Thanks for this extensive amount of information! It helped out a ton!

I'm thinking I'll just stick to my NRW for my Pally's career.

EDIT: And after I've calculated a 1H + Sheild vs. my future 2H I'll actually have an attack advantage with the 2H over the 1H.

I'd originally go with a Pyrope with 87ish attack clean -> perfectly scrolled (132 atk) -> 8 enhancements (when protection scrolls come back)(164) + 10%/30%d Sheild (21 atk) = 185 total attack from Sword+Sheild.

However, with my Night Raven's Wing (101 Atk clean) -> My stored 20% anniversary scrolls (164 atk) -> 8 enhancements (196 atk).

So I guess that'll work out. I only have 2H 20%s and no 1H 20%s. If I did have 1H ones I'd probably be doing a perfect Pyrope+Sheild than a NRW. Sure the Sheild will have a %Str advantage but I think I'd still stick with my 11 Atk advange + better looking. xD

Thanks to everyone who has helped![/quote]

If you're going to 20% something... do it on the Stonetooth because it has a higher base att.

@Sephie : Wow! Thanks for this extensive amount of information! It helped out a ton!

I'm thinking I'll just stick to my NRW for my Pally's career.

EDIT: And after I've calculated a 1H + Sheild vs. my future 2H I'll actually have an attack advantage with the 2H over the 1H.

I'd originally go with a Pyrope with 87ish attack clean -> perfectly scrolled (132 atk) -> 8 enhancements (when protection scrolls come back)(164) + 10%/30%d Sheild (21 atk) = 185 total attack from Sword+Sheild.

However, with my Night Raven's Wing (101 Atk clean) -> My stored 20% anniversary scrolls (164 atk) -> 8 enhancements (196 atk).

So I guess that'll work out. I only have 2H 20%s and no 1H 20%s. If I did have 1H ones I'd probably be doing a perfect Pyrope+Sheild than a NRW. Sure the Sheild will have a %Str advantage but I think I'd still stick with my 11 Atk advange + better looking. xD

Thanks to everyone who has helped!

It depends on what is important to you.

If your 2h weapon can do a considerable amount of damage more than your 1h weapon+shield then obviously you'll train faster with it. Plus with Divine Shield, Self Heal, and your naturally high defense, pot costs shouldn't even be a problem even without Shield Mastery and Guardian.

And even then, pots are super cheap because of the over inflation of mesos. Pot costs stay the same but mesos are worth less meaning an inventory of 1200 ginger ales is practically nothing compared to buying... say... one chaos scroll.

Paladins have the option of going 2h and the option is there for a reason. Eventually you'll reach the cap of 9999 wdef without shield mastery and guardian isn't imperative to have compared to your attacking skills.

shield makes the paladin even more defensive because of guardian activation. If you think you save pots using a 2h and divine shield, you will even save a bunch more pots using a shield