General

[quote=dreamglaze]"The burden of proof of showing higher being lies in the hands of those who claim it to exist."
That is more appropriate in a court case, where i'd be trying to convince you something were real. It is not up to theists to convince atheists or vice versa. It's up to each person's drive as a thinker to find out for themselves if there is a god.

I still dont understand why you compare god to fairytale. [b]I am not talking about religion, but a higher being whose existence has philosophical bases, something that fairytales do not have.[/b]
cosmological argument: everything that exist has a cause. there is a 1st cause. let's call this entity "god"
kant:we could not know reality directly as thing-in-itself. What is real in itself is beyond our experience. Even if God exists, we can not know God as he really is.
there are others.
in sum, what i'm getting from your post is that 1. god is a baseless claim, and [b]2. its existence is up to other people to prove.[/b]
if you wont rule it out and it makes sense to you to be partial, i dont think you should put god on the level of fairytale, which have no substantial bases.

hmm. i kind of take back that large hadron collider question, though i still don't quite agree with you. if i delve too deep into that, i start asking questions to myself like 'how do i know other people really exist', which i dont feel like finding out if i'm smart enough to answer[/quote]

I disagree with this. I believe that God is created BASED on the philosophical beliefs of people, not the other way around.
i think the problem is that people don't give themselves enough credit so they give the credit to another entity.

And yeah, I think that if you want to say a supernatural being exists, then I want proof of it. Because it's like saying that Santa Claus exists, but not showing me any proof/evidence.
I think that the problem with the theory of evolution and ideas that counter creationism is that it's based on a huge probability.
Evolution had a 1/1000000000000 chance of occurring, I know, but given all the planets in the universe, it's not that bad of a probability.
Whereas religion gives you a firm answer that fits into what you perceive (hence its based on philosophies that already existed), that a god created everything for a purpose and is perfect in every way.

And you're not the only one that thinks about that last question of yours. I ask myself that same question and it really does make me feel insignificant/all-powerful, depending on how you look at it.

[quote=aznanimality]The burden of proof of showing higher being lies in the hands of those who claim it to exist. that's what I meant to do by my metaphor using the unicorn.
And by physically proven things, I meant things that are present and can be shown. Either through hard facts/microscope/telescope. Not just limited to my five senses because obviously, I can't see oxygen molecules with my bare eyes haha.

Your perception question is really interesting. Carl Sagan made a video on just what you were talking about and it was really interesting.
It was something like how a 4th dimensional being can't be perceived in the 3rd dimension. Just as how a piece of paper can only "perceive" things that are flat or 2-D, it doesn't know what the 3rd dimension is. But when a 4th dimensional being enters the 3rd dimension, the residents of the 3rd dimension don't know how to explain it.
I'll show you the video haha, he's better at it then i am.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0
It's a good video.

And your last point is really good. I sat here and thought about it and it made a lot of sense to me. It's what science is all about really, that there is a chance that you could be wrong and/or proven later on--the fundamental of science.
However, I'm going to go back the idea of the tooth fairy to dispute this. Let's say we were discussing the existence of the tooth fairy. It would make more logical sense for to be on the side that rules out the possibility that it doesn't exist because I grew out of it and don't believe in it.[/quote]

Two things here.
1) It doesn't matter if the tooth fairy exists, because frankly, it wouldn't have any real effect on anyone's life.
2) I do not know of any other being in the unseen that is claimed to be real. Assuming we're talking about mature people, no one really believes that Santa exists, or that the tooth fairy exists. But there are people who believe, with no doubt, that a higher being exists, why do you think this is so?
If you believe that you "grew out of it", I gotta say, with all due respect, there are people way more intelligent and aware than you, that still believe in this higher being.

[quote=OhioMapler]A biology major who is an atheist? Study the eye for a few minutes, in detail, and you are saying that was just from random chance? Take it all back to the very beginning, whatever theory you choose....where did those first "particles" come from. Heck look at the Heart, how amazing is that?

another thing, if you are an atheist then you think that there is no afterlife or heaven....then why are you spending your time on here?

Have a nice day.[/quote]

You didn't even bother to read my thread. I am trying to give a civilized argument and you come in here and just simply state your extremely biased views without reading any of my posts.
This also brings me to another point about religion.
From the very beginning, people could not learn how to cope with death. So they made up things to tell people so that they wouldn't be afraid of it.
The idea behind an afterlife is founded due to concept that people feared death, so they tried to rationalize it.
But for me, dying just puts you into a state that is similar to before you were born (nothingness). I know it sounds terrible but that's what it is for me.

Also, why are you so shocked that a biology major is an atheist? Evolution is one of the core ideas that you have to study if you are to be a pre-med.
On top of that, the majority of PhDs and professors are atheists. Not saying that all of them are though.

Edit: I will be going to sleep now. Thank you to everyone who had a great discussion with me and actually being intelligent and well-mannered about a really, really hot topic that almost always flares tensions. Successful thread is successful.

[quote=dreamglaze]There is more logic in believing in a higher being than a unicorn, such as the explaination of the world.
By your posts's thinking, what do you mean physically proven things, the things you sense with your 5 senses? How about the large hadron collider about which you likely only heard from media?

Diff. Question. I might be going too far with this but o well.
If we look at a pic of a nebula on the net, we only see a computer simulation of what it really is. If we look at our own hands, do you believe we see it as a "thing-in-itself"(as Kant says)? I think I once heard on tv that some animals dont have depth perception(like cant tell the difference bet. background and foreground).
anyway, do you trust this physical reality viewed from human perception so much that you would deny the existence of a higher being?

anyway, i don't get why you have to be either a theists or an atheist. it's obviously more logical to be partial and think that there is possibility that a higher being could exist and there is also possibility that a higher being couldn't exist. only a Sith would deal in absolutes.[/quote]

The burden of proof of showing higher being lies in the hands of those who claim it to exist. that's what I meant to do by my metaphor using the unicorn.
And by physically proven things, I meant things that are present and can be shown. Either through hard facts/microscope/telescope. Not just limited to my five senses because obviously, I can't see oxygen molecules with my bare eyes haha.

Your perception question is really interesting. Carl Sagan made a video on just what you were talking about and it was really interesting.
It was something like how a 4th dimensional being can't be perceived in the 3rd dimension. Just as how a piece of paper can only "perceive" things that are flat or 2-D, it doesn't know what the 3rd dimension is. But when a 4th dimensional being enters the 3rd dimension, the residents of the 3rd dimension don't know how to explain it.
I'll show you the video haha, he's better at it then i am.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0
It's a good video.

And your last point is really good. I sat here and thought about it and it made a lot of sense to me. It's what science is all about really, that there is a chance that you could be wrong and/or proven later on--the fundamental of science.
However, I'm going to go back the idea of the tooth fairy to dispute this. Let's say we were discussing the existence of the tooth fairy. It would make more logical sense for to be on the side that rules out the possibility that it doesn't exist because I grew out of it and don't believe in it.

[quote=CookiiMonstaa]lol, I'm more directing it towards the people who's making this into a dispute. People don't understand the message behind religion again. For example, Christianity, why is the ten commandments there for? To make a better place.[/quote]
I'll be honest. If you just take the 10 commandments out of the Bible, that's all you really need. That's really all the world looks for you know?
Just some guidance and some morals to make the world a better place! I think the stories are unnecessary.

[quote=oreeeeeeo]@aznanimality : none taken bro. I respect the fact your taking your time answering everything without enraging and ending up a flame war.

Also. What do you think off muslems saying " islam is not just a religion, but a way of life". I myself is a catholic and find that phrase very cool because it is true. Do you believe its true?[/quote]
Are you referring to the religious wars associated with Islam or just the sentence itself? If just the sentence, I think it's a respectable idea. it shows devotion and sacrifice.
I don't particularly want to discuss the battles involved with it.

I was planning on making this, just a serious one.

[quote=Instinct]This is only going to start a massive flame war.[/quote]

it's actually been pretty civilized so far.
i hope it stays this way ^_^

[quote=CookiiMonstaa]All religions aim to make a world a better place... Did everyone lose the idea of religion?[/quote]
I understand this but I am only against the concept of having a supernatural God, not against the idea of making the world a better place.
If you looked at my defintion of what being an atheist is about, you would have understood this.
Additionally, I even acknowledged what you have said on Page 1.

[quote=oreeeeeeo]At what point in your life dis you lose your faith in god and why?[/quote]
On the first page i wrote why I lost my faith in God.
The belief in some supernatural entity that created everything just because doesn't make any sense to me.
It's the same as believing in the Tooth Fairy for me. (I'm sorry if this is offensive to you, I'm really not trying to provoke anyone, it's just how I feel)

[quote=dreamglaze]ok, let me rephrase my question.
do you disagree that the existence of a higher power has not yet been disproved?
if yes, do you agree that absence of evidence is evidence of absence? why?
if no to the 1st question, do you disagree that it is more logical to consider all possibilities?
unrelated question: are physically proven things the only things that are real to you?[/quote]
I believe in the saying that the burden of proof lies in the hands of the person claiming it.
So, I'm not ruling it out, of course not.
But at the same time, I could say that I am currently sitting on a robot unicorn that I found last night.
I wouldn't be able to show proof of it obviously. But that's what the presence of a god is like for me.
I see no blatant evidence for it.

And I know your last question is a trick to lure me into some argument you have prepared haha.
But i'll take your bait. Yeah physically proven things are the only things that are real to me.

[quote=moonpanda]Do you think Christians are crazy people who try to convert people?[/quote]

I personally believe that there are factions within Christianity itself.
There are those who just go day-to-day calling themselves Christians yet blatantly sin without any regard for what they preach/believe in. These people drink, have pre-marital sex, lie, and cheat and are just generally bad people.
There are also those who are Christians that attend church and are just generally good, friendly people that you would LOVE to be neighbors with! IE Ned Flanders!
However, then there are those who try to push their beliefs onto other people. These are the ones that try to say that one person's beliefs are wrong or that another will go to hell for what they are doing. These are the Christians that I believe are "crazy". However, I support the freedom of expression and I support the fact that they are so devoted to their ideals.

I forgot who said it but: "I may not support what you are saying, but I will defend you to the death your right to say it."

[quote=dreamglaze]what reasons support this biased answer?[/quote]

For the reason that I am an atheist?
Of course I'm going to think that my opinion/arguments are more logical than those of theists.
I just said that earlier...

[quote=dreamglaze]who in your opinion is more logical, atheists or theists?[/quote]

I'm clearly going to have a biased answer, because I am an atheist.
In any argument, you are going to have two sides who think that their respective ideology is the more logical choice.

[quote=moonpanda]Why do you believe God and Jesus don't exist?[/quote]

The same reason you don't believe Santa and the Tooth Fairy don't exist.
I know it sounds offensive, but I am very much serious about this.
I used to believe in God, but I grew up and started questioning things and looked for the more rational answer.

Edit: I believe Jesus did exist.
However, I believe that the stories of his life were blown out of proportion.

[quote=taleko]As a fellow atheist could you explain to me your thoughts on how life started? how did that first single cell organism come to be?
Its the only thing i get stuck on with the scientific view on the world.[/quote]

The following statements are based on what I believe to be true, I may have some factual errors and feel free to correct me as I am not a full-on expert in the evolutionary field (yet, haha). I'm actually majoring in Evolutionary, and Ecological Biology but I'm getting through the horrible pre-requirements right now.
ANYWAY
As you know, Bacteria were the first forms of single-celled organisms on the earth. How did these guys come to be? All these guys need are DNA (and mitochondria).
Back when the earth was very young, we didn't have the same form of compounds that we do today in the atmosphere, Nitrogen, oxygen, etc.
We DID have H2O, NH3, etc etc more boring chemistry formulas.
These guys were all abundant in the atmosphere/oceans of earth. Additionally, the weather of the earth in its early years were VIOLENT AS MY DIARRHEA. Anyway, UV rays that penetrated through the ozone (that didn't really exist at all yet) along with SUPER violent thunderstorms caused for a huge mixing of these compounds into new compounds. Among these were AMINO ACIDSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Any high school biology class will tell you that when you have amino acids, you have DNA, you have single-celled organisms.

brb waiting for people to destroy my arguments.

Edit: @pr3stig3 beat me too it.

[quote=taleko]As a fellow atheist could you explain to me your thoughts on how life started? how did that first single cell organism come to be?
Its the only thing i get stuck on with the scientific view on the world.[/quote]

I'm not sure, althought I have ideas which aren't certain, and that's perfectly fine.

Better to acknowledge that you don't know than to make assumptions and b/s to cover it up.

[quote=aznanimality]Well I AM 19 years old and i AM a bio major. So don't immediately go assuming things about people.
However, my comment about having no life is a mockery, I'll give you that.
Regardless of whether or not I failed--the thread exists and I really am trying to give honest answers.
I am sorry if you feel otherwise my friend. I really am.[/quote]

I would have been fine if you had just left out the "no life" part.
Otherwise, I have no real beef with your thread. At least you're offering actual viewpoints with solid reasoning.

@taleko: Chemical reactions that occur in nature led to the formation of amino acids. From there, they combine to form proteins, leading to the first organic molecules. In other words, spontaneous and accidental.

[quote=pr3stig3]Let me give you a vocab lesson.

Fail: "Be unsuccessful in achieving one's goal"
Parody: "A humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing"

Seeing as how his thread wans't humorous or satirical, I think it's safe to say he [i]failed[/i].

EDIT: And don't give me the "this wasn't meant to be a parody" excuse. The fact that the TS mentioned he was 19 and is a Bio major with no life is a total mockery of the other thread.[/quote]

Well I AM 19 years old and i AM a bio major. So don't immediately go assuming things about people.
However, my comment about having no life is a mockery, I'll give you that.
Regardless of whether or not I failed--the thread exists and I really am trying to give honest answers.
I am sorry if you feel otherwise my friend. I really am.

[quote=GeEmEs]One individual's views does not define a majority's views.[/quote]

I was simply defending my position good sir. You're free to believe in whatever you want.
I'm not going to impose my views on you.

[quote=pr3stig3]Let me give you a vocab lesson.

Fail: "Be unsuccessful in achieving one's goal"
Parody: "A humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing"

Seeing as how his thread wans't humorous or satirical, I think it's save to say he [i]failed[/i].[/quote]

One individual's views does not define a majority's views.

[quote=pr3stig3]EDIT: And don't give me the "this wasn't meant to be a parody" excuse. The fact that the TS mentioned he was 19 and is a Bio major with no life is a total mockery of the other thread.[/quote]

How do you know he is lying?

And to counter the 'How do you know he isn't lying?" - He could be lying he could not, but that isn't the point of this thread.

[quote=GeEmEs]Edit: I realised my question was a tad vague - Does your atheist views impact your lookout on life compared to that of a person that believes in a religion? Do you think there is more to the universe than just what we see?

I myself have a mixed view on the existence of god, but I wouldn't necessarily consider myself an Atheist - I'm inbetween the two (Makes no sense, but whatever).

@pr3stig3 , @guyOFguy : I don't see how this would be a 'fail parody'. It may be copying the same thread concept as another, but it is offering another point of view from someone else.[/quote]

For the most part, no, I share all the same morals as any other religion.
My only difference is that I do good deeds simply because it makes me feel good about myself and because I WANT to help other people/society just for the betterment of society. (Most) Religious people do good things because they are scared of going to hell or suffering for eternity because their souls are lost.

And your question about if I think there is more to the universe is a bit vague as well.
On the one hand, I do not believe that there is anything more to the universe than what is physically present. IE I don't believe that we have souls/ghosts.
When we die, we just go back to whatever state that we were before we were born. So no heaven/hell. No singularity.
If you are wondering if there are other life forms out there or things about the universe that we don't understand, like anti-matter and wormholes, than yeah there is more to the universe.

[quote=GeEmEs]Edit: I realised my question was a tad vague - Does your atheist views impact your lookout on life compared to that of a person that believes in a religion? Do you think there is more to the universe than just what we see?

I myself have a mixed view on the existence of god, but I wouldn't necessarily consider myself an Atheist - I'm inbetween the two (Makes no sense, but whatever).

@pr3stig3 , @guyOFguy : I don't see how this would be a 'fail parody'. It may be copying the same thread concept as another, but it is offering another point of view from someone else.[/quote]

Let me give you a vocab lesson.

Fail: "Be unsuccessful in achieving one's goal"
Parody: "A humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing"

Seeing as how his thread wans't humorous or satirical, I think it's safe to say he [i]failed[/i].

EDIT: And don't give me the "this wasn't meant to be a parody" excuse. The fact that the TS mentioned he was 19 and is a Bio major with no life is a total mockery of the other thread.

What is the meaning of life?

Edit: I realised my question was a tad vague - Does your atheist views impact your lookout on life compared to that of a person that believes in a religion? Do you think there is more to the universe than just what we see?

I myself have a mixed view on the existence of god, but I wouldn't necessarily consider myself an Atheist - I'm inbetween the two (Makes no sense, but whatever).

@pr3stig3 , @guyOFguy : I don't see how this would be a 'fail parody'. It may be copying the same thread concept as another, but it is offering another point of view from someone else.

[quote=guyOFguy]Fail parody.
But anyway, Did you become athiest because you thinks it's cool or you don't want to spend an hour of your life at church?[/quote]

Raised a Christian. I attended a Christian Private school from preschool until middle school.
After I came into the public school system, i realized that there were more idealogies out there that made sense.
I got tired of the fact that whenever I asked a teacher something they would just tell me, "because god did it" or "god it made it like that."

[quote=iLuvCake]How about, he simply doesn't believe that god exists? That's why I'm an atheist[/quote]

Or how about it's a [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2026294/1/Ask_a_Creationist.html#]fail parody?[/url]

I'm an atheist as well. You don't see me acting like an idiot though.

Fail parody.
But anyway, Did you become athiest because you thinks it's cool or you don't want to spend an hour of your life at church?