General

[quote=CherryTigers]@bobkiller2: You're a pretty relaxed person. In my mind, I consider that scamming and if any of my guildies did that to someone, I would kick them for it or at least give them a huge lecture on it. I find it to be a serious offense.

Please be careful next time. You could have asked Basilmarket for a price check BEFORE the trade.[/quote]

Yes I'm with this as well, I find it how ridiculous it is for a guildie to charge a higher price to other guildies, even in alliance. I would definitely give them a lecture if it happened to my guild.

@BoredAF that's exactly what the person said afterwards: "I didn't know the price of the items". She proceeded to put the ring up in her shop for 2.5b and then told me "my friend said it was worth this much". Honestly, I know I made a mistake but there's no reason for these people to lie about it.

@BoredAF @LiftConcept
If someone in my guild is fully aware that they are taking advantage of someone by lying, then...

I don't care about the business side of things. I'm all about the ethical side of things and perhaps in a business perspective, you snooze you lose, but in an ethical stand point, I don't tolerate liars. That's just how I run plan on running things in my guild. Other people in other guilds don't care, but that's just their opinions of course.

[quote=sparkshooter]@Tricks122:
I don't that you understand why I have my opinion. I'm just saying that in a world/environment where there's no net to catch you, you have to be independent and not rely on someone else. I agree that the trades are deceptive, because they are. I wouldn't consider it morally acceptable, either. The deceiver, in my eyes, is unfair and shameful. But the person who is tricked, to me, doesn't deserve too much sympathy. I'll pity them, but to an extent. In Maplestory, you put an extra 0 digit in, there's no proof so no one can help you. In life, you put an extra 0 digit in, and the bank or law can help you.[/quote]

I can agree with that, unfortunately. When trades are done all you can really rely on is your own knowledge and whatever arbitrary facts are present; I don't feel too bad for the person who got ripped off, however I dislike the person who is knowingly taking advantage of them. My apologies for the misinterpretation, and I see where you're coming from; it's unfortunate, but considering how much Nexon has to deal with, in theory, I can see why they don't even bother.

@Tricks122:
I don't that you understand why I have my opinion. I'm just saying that in a world/environment where there's no net to catch you, you have to be independent and not rely on someone else. I agree that the trades are deceptive, because they are. I wouldn't consider it morally acceptable, either. The deceiver, in my eyes, is unfair and shameful. But the person who is tricked, to me, doesn't deserve too much sympathy. I'll pity them, but to an extent. In Maplestory, you put an extra 0 digit in, there's no proof so no one can help you. In life, you put an extra 0 digit in, and the bank or law can help you.

[quote=BoredAF]lol That's silly. The responsibility is on the seller not the buyer to perform due diligence. If anything, I would consider it laziness on the sellers side. I don't merch in maple but as far as how I handle trades in real life, that's how I operate. I wouldn't try and sue, if I sold something for less than it was worth and say that the buyer, committed an act of fraud against me. That is in itself laughable.[/quote]

This. There's a difference between being scammed and merely being unaware of current prices.. any good merch would take advantage of cheap items am I right?

[quote=BoredAF]@Tricks122: lol Good luck.It does amuse me though that your maple character of goku as a saiyan is how you choose to live your life. That pure-heart'ed, wanting to make the world a better place attitude. I could appreciate that. But like Goku, I think you hit your head at one time or another and that change, is never going to happen in this world. Not in any amount that will matter anyway. Anyways, this discussion was fun. Take care.[/quote]

It may happen, it may not. What was once deemed unfathomable before is commonplace, even trivial now. The change doesn't need to be through the whole world, even a small section of it in which people of similar interests and values can be is enough for me. And thank you, take care as well; I mean after all, I'm just saiyan. And thank you for noticing the outfit, I tried. If the world doesn't change at all, then I'll make due, but even now I have people who think of those similar values around me, and I'm more happy with them than with a band of wolves ready to tear me apart when the opportunity presents itself.

@sparkshooter That seems to be adopting the mentality of "It's only illegal if you get caught.". I'm not saying these trades should be punished, I'm merely saying that, personally, based on several criteria I view of what makes a fair trade, they are not fair, and are deceptive; as a result, saying that this practice is morally acceptable just because it's a game or because it can't be enforced is, to me, silly, and not one I could adopt in good conscience.

[quote=Tricks122]Oh, don't get me wrong, I do not think the world is all candies and sugar-coated. I know it's a harsh place; however, I believe that the argument that it is a harsh place, ergo harsh actions are okay is wrong. I believe that we should strive to get to the kindhearted, fair sort of world that is possible, but not in place; whether you agree or not, that's fine, but there is a point where this wolf attitude just devolves society to a point where it no longer functions, and that harms everyone, yourself included.

I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it; however, needless to say, I'd rather be in a fair and equitable world for everyone, rather than have a small chance to be a wolf, and a high chance of being abused, with neither being a permanent position. If you disagree, eh, whatever; it won't stop me from, when I can, striving to form that sort of world, even if it's only in a small portion of what exists.[/quote]
Your opinion is very admirable. I do agree in some aspects. I believe that the real-world merchant-techniques that use underhanded methods or deception should be illegal/punishable. But for things like Maplestory, I disagree. In game transactions aren't exactly monitored on Nexon's side. Millions upon millions of trades happen each day, and it'd be simply too difficult to keep track of them. In Maplestory, where a single mistake lies in a single click, you have to be more careful. GM's or the law won't really help you. So people who are merched in game just have to deal with it. There is simply no way for Nexon game masters to crack down on every "I was tricked" case.

On a side note, does anyone wanna give me compensation for the losses I suffered? (4b ish?) Much appreciated

[quote=BoredAF]@Tricks122: Well you are free to have your opinions ofc. I just disagree with some of them. Luckily for me, your opinion doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form. So feel free to continue having them. I will continue to have mine as well.

To each their own. I rather be a wolf in this world, than a doormat. This kindhearted, fair, candy-coated world you seem to want to live in, doesn't exist. Let me know if the world ever turns out that way. I'll change my 'wrong' ways.[/quote]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do not think the world is all candies and sugar-coated. I know it's a harsh place; however, I believe that the argument that it is a harsh place, ergo harsh actions are okay is wrong. I believe that we should strive to get to the kindhearted, fair sort of world that is possible, but not in place; whether you agree or not, that's fine, but there is a point where this wolf attitude just devolves society to a point where it no longer functions, and that harms everyone, yourself included.

I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it; however, needless to say, I'd rather be in a fair and equitable world for everyone, rather than have a small chance to be a wolf, and a high chance of being abused, with neither being a permanent position. If you disagree, eh, whatever; it won't stop me from, when I can, striving to form that sort of world, even if it's only in a small portion of what exists.

Oh don't worry too much. Right now the ecomomy is so unstable that you can easily make a few mils, bils, trils~

I hoarded so much back then but now all the things I hoarded are selling like McDonalds

Let's just agree if the seller waited and found out the prices this whole incident would be avoided. If people are too lazy or don't have enough time to do this well, it is what it is.

[quote=bobkiller2]@BoredAF while I did make a large mistake in the game, I wouldn't call it a lack of "common sense". I simply sold because I, like many other sellers, was afraid that I wouldn't be able to get a better deal later, especially if the person stated that she saw a cheaper price a while back.[/quote]

Never trust anyone, unless it's me! ;D
On a serious note though, it only takes a few seconds to do research with (.fm maple) switch those two around.
Trust me, screw everyone who doesn't want to trade with you. There'll always be someone else.
Never fear.

[quote=BoredAF]@Tricks122: lol Go ahead, I have good insurance coverage. Well the system is flawed, because life isn't fair. While you may say it isn't a good argument, it doesn't change the fact that some times it's true. Crap happens, deal with it.

That Red Bull case was pretty amazing though, wish I thought of it first. While you may say he lacked common sense, maybe he had not only common sense but the mind of how the law worked. In which he used it to his advantage. Genius imo.

While I'd love to agree with you on societies standards, the way our own governments rip us off with money. I really don't care much if other people find a way to 'abuse' the current laws to get ahead in life. When it comes down to right and wrong, it becomes subjective. If the gov can do it and get away with it, I'm all for people of society who are smart enough to try as well.[/quote]

It was more or less showing you how the concept is flawed. Yes, life isn't fair, that's a fact, but it is NOT a justification for unfair acts to happen needlessly. As for the Red Bull case, perhaps he knew how the law worked to exploit it, but regardless you honestly can't say that most people, much less someone of average intelligence, expect to get wings from a drink, especially not at that price.

Right and wrong are arguably not subjective, but let's not get into that. The government rips us off due to power, not due to intelligence. I find that using the bad acts of another to justify your own bad acts is wrong, and the basis of why our society is corrupt, and more or less unable to heal itself; people are too comfortable trying to take advantage of each other for personal gain, rather than work for personal gain that is also a gain for everyone. Plus, abusing people who aren't benefiting from the system is more or less useless; if you take advantage of the people abusing the system in a way that forces change, that would be interesting, but otherwise it's a wolf under another name, with the same greed and problems, using the coyote as a justification for the way it acts, when it doesn't need to act that way.

[quote=BoredAF]Life isn't fair though. While you may have a point in that cases can be taken to court, most people realize that the court proceedings usually cost more than the value of what was lost to begin with (either money and/or time). In the end it's better to just know what you're getting yourself into and do the research.

While maple is only a game, it doesn't hurt to learn that even in a game setting it helps to use common sense. We all have our own values in this world, and I like to make money by any means necessary. What you consider fair, someone else may not. That's life.[/quote]

That's a flaw of society and the juridical system in general, where someone who sues Red Bull for not getting wings could, in theory, win a court case for several thousand, or medical bills, for not having any common sense. You can say "life isn't fair", but then by that logic I shouldn't be charged for breaking into your house and stealing your things under the same excuse.

I do agree that common sense is great, but if your value directly conflict with society and/or the rules that are established, there is a problem. There can be some debate about whether pressure tactics or blatant lies are 'scamming' or not, but considering how in the real world you can be charged for both(The issue is that charging a person is more costly, as you said, hence why it is rarely done for some things) it more or less points to the fact that what you are doing is, in fact, wrong based on societal standards.

Life isn't fair, but using that excuse for anything is a poor argument, and values which are inherently disruptive to others are arguably values that are negative in nature to our mutual well-being, and thus immoral in many conceptions of values or morals(Not to get into a long winded philosophical conversation about it).

@BoredAF while I did make a large mistake in the game, I wouldn't call it a lack of "common sense". I simply sold because I, like many other sellers, was afraid that I wouldn't be able to get a better deal later, especially if the person stated that she saw a cheaper price a while back.

[quote=BoredAF]lol That's silly. The responsibility is on the seller not the buyer to perform due diligence. If anything, I would consider it laziness on the sellers side. I don't merch in maple but as far as how I handle trades in real life, that's how I operate. I wouldn't try and sue, if I sold something for less than it was worth and say that the buyer, committed an act of fraud against me. That is in itself laughable.[/quote]

Actually, depending on the words used and the actual law in your region, you may be able to. There's a common tactic in Canada/America(Particularly with Mattress stores, for some reason) where they mark up a product and then put it 'on sale' for what would be the regular price. It appears to be a good deal, but since it was marked up it is essentially fraud; from what I am told, this process is illegal in Australia, where an item must be sold at 'x' cost for 'y' duration before it can be put on sale(Rather than at any time).

Both parties should be performing due diligence, and I do agree that it is not best to trust what someone else has to say when your ignorance is an advantage to them, however in lying in business can, and is often, punishable; in Maple it is different, as in all MMO's, but when one party blatantly lies to another in order to secure a deal, particularly with pressure tactics, it is laughable to say it is anywhere near a fair, equitable practice.

[quote=BoredAF]lol That's silly. The responsibility is on the seller not the buyer to perform due diligence. If anything, I would consider it laziness on the sellers side. I don't merch in maple but as far as how I handle trades in real life, that's how I operate. I wouldn't try and sue, if I sold something for less than it was worth and say that the buyer, committed an act of fraud against me. That is in itself laughable.[/quote]

This.

@CherryTigers well thanks a lot! haha, yeah the person did use "pressure tactics" like I saw in the thread you posted. I wanted to keep searching to find the prices but she kept telling me the prices she offered were much better than market value (even told me that she saw ______ on sale a few days ago for less). Completely my fault for not noticing the blatant lying.

@bobkiller2: You're a pretty relaxed person. In my mind, I consider that scamming and if any of my guildies did that to someone, I would kick them for it or at least give them a huge lecture on it. I find it to be a serious offense.

Please be careful next time. You could have asked Basilmarket for a price check BEFORE the trade.

@cherrytigers i never used the word "scamming", I know that it was completely my fault for not p/c it first. I just remembered these prices the last time I played so I went wit them

red rose is 3-4bil
snowflake is 2bil

All I have to say is this:
http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2851274/0/Why_do_people_compare_scamming_with_merching.html

Check out the 2nd and 3rd page of the thread for what @tricks122 wrote

People like those scammers give us real merchants a bad name.

how many bil?

a few bill thats for sure.