General

[quote=Lecarde]Godly people don't [I]need[/I] to upgrade anymore, but they still do. You don't need a full set of 15 star tyrants in order to hit cap on bosses, but that doesn't stop them from perfecting their equips, literally for no reason. Once you can hit cap damage, for most players it turns into a bragging contest. They try to perfect their equips in order to show off. I can't count how many times people have done that in Windia recently. Someone showed off all of his gear, 3 15 star tyrant equips, a 38ish% equip, and more beyond godly items all the while trying to buy pre-scrolled sup pendants because his gear wasn't perfect enough. This is a problem in Maplestory. It isn't enough to simply hit cap damage and be able to solo all bosses. You have to then perfect every single piece of gear you have. [/quote]

Well, what they choose to do with their money is their choice. If spending money on showing off perfect gear makes them happy, oh well. I would call it a waste of money, but look at how many people buy alcohol.

[quote=Lecarde]
In itself it isn't a problem, but in reality it is. You have these people, some of the few who can afford to wear %drop gear while killing cRA or Magnus to increase the supply of endgame items and they choose to instead spend their time on their own gear. This encourages some of them to sit on their tyrant and fafnir supplies, waiting until prices rise before selling 8 or 10 at once so they can make the most money, so they can work on their own gear even though they don't need to.
[/quote]

Buy low, sell high. Nothing wrong with that.

[quote=Lecarde]
They make it harder for the unfunded to acquire decent items at a reasonable cost, not that they even know what reasonable is anymore (seriously, I have heard one of them actually wonder aloud about why no one in our alliance jumped at the chance to drop 40bil on a ring, and not even a gollux ring), which makes it harder for them to start to close the gap. Ideally, when a player hits cap he/she should be invested in helping others in their alliance get stronger. Whether that means giving them gear, taking them on cRA/Magnus runs [B]and letting them keep drops[/B], giving free or almost free gollux scroll service, etc... but they don't. They care only about perfecting their gear, or perfectly funding a new character. And anyone that says they need the money can shut up right now. If you are funded enough to hit cap you certainly aren't hurting for money and you won't have any trouble making more. Its a toxic mindset that you have to perfect your own gear before even considering helping other people in your own alliance or guild.
[/quote]

Just because they're rich doesn't mean they have an obligation to give away their mesos. They can invest their mesos wherever they want. If that's in helping their alliance, fine, but there's nothing wrong with investing in more profitable areas. Why should they give free Gollux scroll service and boss runs when there are plenty of people willing to pay or work for it?

Anyone can get Tyrant capes/CRA/Empress easily, just make a support character and ask to join boss runs. There are many people who will be perfectly happy to take a Blaze Wizard /Bishop/Kanna/Paladin along since it makes the run that much easier. Or you can just pay market price for them.

[quote=Lecarde]
And to be honest star force will only make it worse. These same people are the ones who can afford to buy dozens of fafnir weapons for when they boom their, or dozens of clean tyrants for when those boom. This will drive the price up way beyond what any non-funded person can buy. Already risk holders are at almost 3 bil clean in Windia as people get ready for this. They are going to use star force to enhance a lot of items just to sell to other players at a massively inflated price in an effort to get back the mesos they lost on enhancing tyrants. Honestly, if they would just stop this type of behavior it would overall decrease the price of items as supply would increase (from people no longer sitting on their supply) and demand would decrease. This would not only help the unfunded players, but it would also make it cheaper for a funded player to perfect an item. Everyone wins. But seeing as how that requires you to put off the immediate gains, it will never happen because Americans have, in general, lost the ability to look at the bigger picture and instead focus on immediate gratification.[/quote]

Remember that these are the same people beating CVellum so you can have Fafnir weapons at all. Before they could beat CVellum, Fafnir claws went for over 8 B, so compared to that 3B is still pretty good.

At the end of the day, you're asking rich players to stop trying to make mesos. That just doesn't make sense.

@Dominating: That's right, but it doesn't change the fact that the rich people hoard these items until they can get as much money for them as possible. That just makes it harder to actually fund yourself, which makes it harder to close the gap, which makes it harder to change it

Nexon is actually making an effort to listen to their community for once in the past several years. If you look at old threads on their forums there are numerous posts about the majority of people wanting both starforce as well as the massive character revamp. For once it feels like Nexon ACTUALLY LISTENED and did just that. Though they still obviously have profit incentives (as does ANY corporation), at least they are finally making an effort to make the game somewhat more enjoyable to their paying customers. It's like they do and they don't sometimes and when they actually go out of their way to do, some of these inconsiderate children are still unsatisfied..

[quote=deadlifts]I agree that the biggest problem with this game lies in the potential system.
Also fafnir weapons were never expensive, but the other RA equips were. And by the way I don't remember even fafnir going down in price; it's more expensive now than before.[/quote]

No. The only RA equip that really matched weapon costs were the pants.
And where were u when fafnir equips and weapons were 1 bil +

[quote=Lecarde]Godly people don't [I]need[/I] to upgrade anymore, but they still do. You don't need a full set of 15 star tyrants in order to hit cap on bosses, but that doesn't stop them from perfecting their equips, literally for no reason. Once you can hit cap damage, for most players it turns into a bragging contest. They try to perfect their equips in order to show off. I can't count how many times people have done that in Windia recently. Someone showed off all of his gear, 3 15 star tyrant equips, a 38ish% equip, and more beyond godly items all the while trying to buy pre-scrolled sup pendants because his gear wasn't perfect enough. This is a problem in Maplestory. It isn't enough to simply hit cap damage and be able to solo all bosses. You have to then perfect every single piece of gear you have.

In itself it isn't a problem, but in reality it is. You have these people, some of the few who can afford to wear %drop gear while killing cRA or Magnus to increase the supply of endgame items and they choose to instead spend their time on their own gear. This encourages some of them to sit on their tyrant and fafnir supplies, waiting until prices rise before selling 8 or 10 at once so they can make the most money, so they can work on their own gear even though they don't need to. They make it harder for the unfunded to acquire decent items at a reasonable cost, not that they even know what reasonable is anymore (seriously, I have heard one of them actually wonder aloud about why no one in our alliance jumped at the chance to drop 40bil on a ring, and not even a gollux ring), which makes it harder for them to start to close the gap. Ideally, when a player hits cap he/she should be invested in helping others in their alliance get stronger. Whether that means giving them gear, taking them on cRA/Magnus runs [B]and letting them keep drops[/B], giving free or almost free gollux scroll service, etc... but they don't. They care only about perfecting their gear, or perfectly funding a new character. And anyone that says they need the money can shut up right now. If you are funded enough to hit cap you certainly aren't hurting for money and you won't have any trouble making more. Its a toxic mindset that you have to perfect your own gear before even considering helping other people in your own alliance or guild.

And to be honest star force will only make it worse. These same people are the ones who can afford to buy dozens of fafnir weapons for when they boom their, or dozens of clean tyrants for when those boom. This will drive the price up way beyond what any non-funded person can buy. Already risk holders are at almost 3 bil clean in Windia as people get ready for this. They are going to use star force to enhance a lot of items just to sell to other players at a massively inflated price in an effort to get back the mesos they lost on enhancing tyrants. Honestly, if they would just stop this type of behavior it would overall decrease the price of items as supply would increase (from people no longer sitting on their supply) and demand would decrease. This would not only help the unfunded players, but it would also make it cheaper for a funded player to perfect an item. Everyone wins. But seeing as how that requires you to put off the immediate gains, it will never happen because Americans have, in general, lost the ability to look at the bigger picture and instead focus on immediate gratification.[/quote]

I know what u mean about the show off in windia ... I saw xpose's 49% luk ring made me want to rage quit and then some 190 att shoes
I thnk you have a point , but a little too pasimistic

After all , only thanks to drop gear there are more end game items which means lower prices due to higher supply , right

[quote=Dominating]It is pay to win ... But still... It was not the point
Godly people don't need to upgrade anymore , right ? so miracle times are useless to them?
They stay in a certain point, and the less godly people get near that point with every miracle time that comes! With NX deals , with events and more in game content

It is pay to win but now the godliest people arent x10000 stronger than the avg player , only like x10
At least thats how I feel[/quote]

Godly people don't [I]need[/I] to upgrade anymore, but they still do. You don't need a full set of 15 star tyrants in order to hit cap on bosses, but that doesn't stop them from perfecting their equips, literally for no reason. Once you can hit cap damage, for most players it turns into a bragging contest. They try to perfect their equips in order to show off. I can't count how many times people have done that in Windia recently. Someone showed off all of his gear, 3 15 star tyrant equips, a 38ish% equip, and more beyond godly items all the while trying to buy pre-scrolled sup pendants because his gear wasn't perfect enough. This is a problem in Maplestory. It isn't enough to simply hit cap damage and be able to solo all bosses. You have to then perfect every single piece of gear you have.

In itself it isn't a problem, but in reality it is. You have these people, some of the few who can afford to wear %drop gear while killing cRA or Magnus to increase the supply of endgame items and they choose to instead spend their time on their own gear. This encourages some of them to sit on their tyrant and fafnir supplies, waiting until prices rise before selling 8 or 10 at once so they can make the most money, so they can work on their own gear even though they don't need to. They make it harder for the unfunded to acquire decent items at a reasonable cost, not that they even know what reasonable is anymore (seriously, I have heard one of them actually wonder aloud about why no one in our alliance jumped at the chance to drop 40bil on a ring, and not even a gollux ring), which makes it harder for them to start to close the gap. Ideally, when a player hits cap he/she should be invested in helping others in their alliance get stronger. Whether that means giving them gear, taking them on cRA/Magnus runs [B]and letting them keep drops[/B], giving free or almost free gollux scroll service, etc... but they don't. They care only about perfecting their gear, or perfectly funding a new character. And anyone that says they need the money can shut up right now. If you are funded enough to hit cap you certainly aren't hurting for money and you won't have any trouble making more. Its a toxic mindset that you have to perfect your own gear before even considering helping other people in your own alliance or guild.

And to be honest star force will only make it worse. These same people are the ones who can afford to buy dozens of fafnir weapons for when they boom their, or dozens of clean tyrants for when those boom. This will drive the price up way beyond what any non-funded person can buy. Already risk holders are at almost 3 bil clean in Windia as people get ready for this. They are going to use star force to enhance a lot of items just to sell to other players at a massively inflated price in an effort to get back the mesos they lost on enhancing tyrants. Honestly, if they would just stop this type of behavior it would overall decrease the price of items as supply would increase (from people no longer sitting on their supply) and demand would decrease. This would not only help the unfunded players, but it would also make it cheaper for a funded player to perfect an item. Everyone wins. But seeing as how that requires you to put off the immediate gains, it will never happen because Americans have, in general, lost the ability to look at the bigger picture and instead focus on immediate gratification.

I feel like the way they managed to fix the gap is by creating work for the poor players. Basically only the poor players that are really dedicated in the game and patient can become as strong as the people that pay.

They did a slightly good job of fixing the gap, but in reality, what nexon did was make the rate to get strong through nx much much faster than the rate to get strong through work. As above posters have said, it takes months for a single tyrant glove which can easily be attained instantly through marvel or buying nx to sell.

I agree that the biggest problem with this game lies in the potential system.
Also fafnir weapons were never expensive, but the other RA equips were. And by the way I don't remember even fafnir going down in price; it's more expensive now than before.

Fafnirs are way to expensive now. Good thing i bought mine few weeks ago. But "meso gap"will indeed reduce because all the rich people will just throw money into star force. say byebye to billions and billions of mesos from the economy =p

[quote=AbidingHero]I have a really, "good" standpoint on this because of how I've played the game.

I used to have a good amount of funding (by no means amazing, i was not owning the server hitting 9,999,999's but my damage was decent and i had a lot of items and money i was merching with)
The game was very hard for me to not spend money on but i managed to do it (i spent money in the starting days of me playing)
I made a "perfect fafnir staff" and spent a few bill on it.

but i got hacked, i lost everything and i quit / played on off for a year (by played on off i mean checked in every month or so)

But recently my IRL friend and i started to play again, he is completly new, 3 character slots on his account, no nx, nothing. I still have a bit of what i had before.

I gave my friend minimal mesos (probably about 30m in mesos and i bought him a few items so like 40m)
But by 2 weeks of playing later my friend has full lionheart gear (not good in the slightest but he still has it)

2 weeks of me playing
I have a fafnir cross bow that is 8+ with spell trace scrolls, the amount i spent on the 5 magic attack 8+ staff was probably 9x the amount i spent on the fafnir xbow

So in my opinion the game shifted the market to this

Extremly rich - stayed around the same
Upper middle class - lost a bit of money
Middle class - lost a significant amount of money but gained new methods to gain money
Lower middle class - stayed around the same but can now make more money and get more items
Low class - Gained a lot of new options and new oppurtunities to gain meso[/quote]
How exactly was your friend able to get full empress in 2 weeks? I haven't got that in 2 months.

I have a really, "good" standpoint on this because of how I've played the game.

I used to have a good amount of funding (by no means amazing, i was not owning the server hitting 9,999,999's but my damage was decent and i had a lot of items and money i was merching with)
The game was very hard for me to not spend money on but i managed to do it (i spent money in the starting days of me playing)
I made a "perfect fafnir staff" and spent a few bill on it.

but i got hacked, i lost everything and i quit / played on off for a year (by played on off i mean checked in every month or so)

But recently my IRL friend and i started to play again, he is completly new, 3 character slots on his account, no nx, nothing. I still have a bit of what i had before.

I gave my friend minimal mesos (probably about 30m in mesos and i bought him a few items so like 40m)
But by 2 weeks of playing later my friend has full lionheart gear (not good in the slightest but he still has it)

2 weeks of me playing
I have a fafnir cross bow that is 8+ with spell trace scrolls, the amount i spent on the 5 magic attack 8+ staff was probably 9x the amount i spent on the fafnir xbow

So in my opinion the game shifted the market to this

Extremly rich - stayed around the same
Upper middle class - lost a bit of money
Middle class - lost a significant amount of money but gained new methods to gain money
Lower middle class - stayed around the same but can now make more money and get more items
Low class - Gained a lot of new options and new oppurtunities to gain meso

The gap is smaller between the funded and the poor. The super funded are still maintaining their huge cap between super funded and funded.

[quote=fmonglobal]Wth are these Benjamin's you people are talking about?

o.o[/quote]

Benjamin short for Benjamin Franklin- one of America's founding fathers and the face of the American hundred dollar bill- is American slang for currency.

e.g. Disregard women, acquire Benjamins.

[quote=Dominating]It is pay to win ... But still... It was not the point
Godly people dont need to upgrade anymore , right ? so miracle times are useless to them?
They stay in a certain point, and the less godly people get near that point with every miracle time that comes! With NX deals , with events and more in game content

It is pay to win but now the godliest people arent x10000 stronger than the avg player , only like x10
Atleast thats how I feel[/quote]

Godly people get bored and either quit the game or start to fund a new character.

[quote=xBallsDeepx]Omfg thank you god bless you for saying this. Everything you said was100% true especially the it's easier to just drop Benjamin's than farm 3 months for 1 tyrant equip. I am going to quote you every time someone is q-qing about pay 2 win.[/quote]
[quote=Sammi]Smaller, but not small. Cubes still play a huge role, even though they have those in-game cubes. I think cubes are still a pretty big problem, I only managed to far 11 cubes worth of cubic (chaos) blades [55 regular cubic blades, 50 chaos cubic blades] in over [b]4 months[/b].

Same type of situation goes for tyrants too, it's easier to just drop Benjamin's than farm 3 months for 1 tyrant equip.
Tyrant gloves? I don't even want to think about that. Of course I understand if they made it any easier, everyone would have them, but they made it so its almost impossible to try to get the tyrants unless you spend a minimum of MONTHS. Why can't they make it so the difficulty is so hard it's discouraging, but still possible to farm for the stuff sooner? (A way so that botters can't abuse either).Why make it so it takes months for 1 equip? Oh right, MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Everything takes too much time if you want to play for free, but if you drop a few Benjamin's you can get where you want faster (in terms of equips).

But I guess some appreciation is due for Nexon's "efforts" in making a smaller gap.[/quote]

Wth are these Benjamin's you people are talking about?

o.o

[quote=Dominating]So lately i have realized that although Nexon are so very really bad the big gap that there was between poor and rich is now alot smaller than or was
Especialy with Star force now , people can EE their weapons and for cheaper, epic and slates more available to everyone
spell traces also help the poor people get some more att on their weapons for very cheap
Even fafnirs are now super cheap due to the new drop system

So I thin Nexon do deserve a little bit of appreciation ?
Do you agree the gap is now small?[/quote]

Fafnir claw rose in price by 1b today.

well yah, with scarce fighting content available to the unfunded ppl, ppl with more money seem to have more "fun"

everyone else is stuck in a grind game that makes em suffer til they pay or leave.

less skill, more about the money. simple.

It is pay to win ... But still... It was not the point
Godly people dont need to upgrade anymore , right ? so miracle times are useless to them?
They stay in a certain point, and the less godly people get near that point with every miracle time that comes! With NX deals , with events and more in game content

It is pay to win but now the godliest people arent x10000 stronger than the avg player , only like x10
Atleast thats how I feel

Smaller, but not small. Cubes still play a huge role, even though they have those in-game cubes. I think cubes are still a pretty big problem, I only managed to far 11 cubes worth of cubic (chaos) blades [55 regular cubic blades, 50 chaos cubic blades] in over [b]4 months[/b].

Same type of situation goes for tyrants too, it's easier to just drop Benjamin's than farm 3 months for 1 tyrant equip.
Tyrant gloves? I don't even want to think about that. Of course I understand if they made it any easier, everyone would have them, but they made it so its almost impossible to try to get the tyrants unless you spend a minimum of MONTHS. Why can't they make it so the difficulty is so hard it's discouraging, but still possible to farm for the stuff sooner? (A way so that botters can't abuse either).Why make it so it takes months for 1 equip? Oh right, MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Everything takes too much time if you want to play for free, but if you drop a few Benjamin's you can get where you want faster (in terms of equips).

But I guess some appreciation is due for Nexon's "efforts" in making a smaller gap.