General

[quote=Axnslicer]Yes, but what I mean is that these details should be unquestioned. I certainly can prove my profit:time ratios from last year, but it's an irrelevant distraction from the actual conversation. It's like talking about the justifications and motivations for a war, and then having a people overly focus on the budget for a certain type of gun in one particular year. That level of detail detracts from the discussion, and really, you should be trusting I know what I'm doing when I gloss over such minor details.

I'm in this discussion because people are, once again, complaining about the p2w aspects of MS. I'm trying to show that

A) Maple is not traditionally p2w because "winning" should be defined as having fun.
B) There are very reasonable ways to fund yourself without spending money.
C) Having max range vs having 100k range is actually not all that different in terms of fun.[/quote]

Just wanted to tell you that I really enjoy your threads and messages here. You're one of the more unique, interesting people I've met and it's obvious that your thoughts are well thought out and always of a very high quality.

[quote=Axnslicer]Yes, but what I mean is that these details should be unquestioned. I certainly can prove my profit:time ratios from last year, but I should not have to as it's an irrelevant distraction from the actual conversation. It's like talking about the justifications and motivations for a war, and then having a people overly focus on the budget for a certain type of gun. That level of detail detracts from the discussion, and really, you should be trusting I know what I'm doing when I gloss over such minor details.

I'm in this discussion because people are, once again, complaining about the p2w aspects of MS. I'm trying to show that

A) Maple is not traditionally p2w because "winning" should be defined as having fun, and that having max range vs having 100k range is actually not all that different in terms of enjoyment.
B) There are very reasonable ways to fund yourself without spending money.[/quote]

I would argue differently in your comparison, and about the impact of details, but I suppose we can just leave that.

I believe I said this before, but there are significant 'milestones' of range where new content opens up, and I believe that's important for a player who enjoys bossing(Which tends to be a focus and fun aspect of the game, at least in my opinion). At many points some of the bosses are either pushovers or much too difficult, and a higher range is vital to provoke challenges for the player to pass; it's definitely not the main point, but it is a significant one to consider, particularly for the average player.

I agree with your second point. no arguments there, even outside of events; most Maplers are just too lazy to take advantage of the common methods to fund themselves.

[quote=Tricks122]Oh, you don't, but you also don't need to respond to me at all. This is a discussion, that's all; if you don't really want to participate you don't need to. I'm saying that if you look at what the average person was getting they wouldn't be coming close to what the leaf rate you gave was, based on the proof you provided. Not to mention that inferior mobbing classes would be pulling much less leaves than 22k/hour, given how the example you gave had ludicrous amounts of increased drop bonuses; regardless I'd say it's relevant because it modifies your previous claims about how easy and profitable it was for previous events, especially for the average player.

I'm aware of the Kanna glitch with Kishin(Looked it up just in case; it was what I suspected), although unless it broke every Evo map(Or you'd always get the same map), since they're instanced, you might be thrown off by others farming at the same time; my only experience with it is in R&J since my Kanna mule is pretty low, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Not everyone can figure out ways to increase efficiency on their own; if I'd never trained a Kanna I'd never have noticed the glitch. Not everyone has a spare Kanna(Especially newer players); I spoke to someone in my Alliance who said "farming cubes from Veins is easy", and he had a permanent Hyper Rock with maps nobody ever visited(For good reason) in it, and he was speaking about how anyone could do it. Increased efficiency isn't always something that can be obtained by players, especially the average one.[/quote]

Yes, but what I mean is that these details should be unquestioned. I certainly can prove my profit:time ratios from last year, but it's an irrelevant distraction from the actual conversation. It's like talking about the justifications and motivations for a war, and then having people overly focus on the budget for a certain type of gun in one particular year. That level of detail detracts from the discussion, and really, you should be trusting I know what I'm doing when I gloss over such minor details.

I'm in this discussion because people are, once again, complaining about the p2w aspects of MS. I'm trying to show that

A) Maple is not traditionally p2w because "winning" should be defined as having fun.
B) There are very reasonable ways to fund yourself without spending money.
C) Having max range vs having 100k range is actually not all that different in terms of fun.

[quote=Axnslicer]-snip-[/quote]

Oh, you don't, but you also don't need to respond to me at all. This is a discussion, that's all; if you don't really want to participate you don't need to. I'm saying that if you look at what the average person was getting they wouldn't be coming close to what the leaf rate you gave was, based on the proof you provided. Not to mention that inferior mobbing classes would be pulling much less leaves than 22k/hour, given how the example you gave had ludicrous amounts of increased drop bonuses; regardless I'd say it's relevant because it modifies your previous claims about how easy and profitable it was for previous events, especially for the average player.

I'm aware of the Kanna glitch with Kishin(Looked it up just in case; it was what I suspected), although unless it broke every Evo map(Or you'd always get the same map), since they're instanced, you might be thrown off by others farming at the same time; my only experience with it is in R&J since my Kanna mule is pretty low, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Not everyone can figure out ways to increase efficiency on their own; if I'd never trained a Kanna I'd never have noticed the glitch. Not everyone has a spare Kanna(Especially newer players); I spoke to someone in my Alliance who said "farming cubes from Veins is easy", and he had a permanent Hyper Rock with maps nobody ever visited(For good reason) in it, and he was speaking about how anyone could do it. Increased efficiency isn't always something that can be obtained by players, especially the average one.

[quote=SnailShells]well they have to make money somehow

it IS a company after all[/quote]
It's funny how often people make this same mistake. They genuinely seem to have deluded themselves into believing that Nexon is providing a community service which they should not have to pay for at all.

Money isn't evil. All money is is the value you choose to represent the product of your hard work. Nothing wrong with that...it's actually a pretty healthy concept.

well they have to make money somehow

it IS a company after all

I just got Witcher 3 the other day...and its games like that that highlight for me just how poorly written and designed the vast majority of the content in Maplestory really is. I play 10 minutes of Witcher and find myself getting engrossed by the story. I can honestly say that I have never once noticed story in Maplestory. The only reason the game gets by for me is because I play to be with my friends.

[quote=Tricks122]...[/quote]

Lol. You know I don't really have to defend my 20-30k leaf/hour rate to you right?

Not only is it something that happened last year and therefore basically irrelevant to this discussion which is about how to win MS, it's also the result of a technique I figured out personally.

The technique is useless/commonly known now so I don't mind sharing, but if you had asked me during last anniversary I would have probably declined to tell. Simply put, I discovered a way to get Kanna level spawn in Evo without a Kanna, and was smart enough to use a good mobbing class instead of a DB. I answered another thread earlier today with a relevant link if you feel like looking it up.

You can't be a mindless drone when you do these events, you need to always be looking for ways to increase efficiency.

[quote=Axnslicer]While I didn't record my runs, Mazz recorded one of his getting 11k in 30 minutes, and he's a DB with mediocre mobbing skills.l[/quote]

He has several Legendary equips with increased drop rate and a Wolf, not to mention his own personal Kanna. With all due respect, the average person couldn't really afford most of those, so saying you should get anywhere near his amount of leaves seems like you're assuming the average person can get those multipliers. He's a DB, so the mobbing does matter, but with how much percent drop he has more than the average person(Not to mention the personal Kanna for increased spawn rate, which both offsets his lower mobbing abilities AND helps a ton when mobs got dragged into the middle), it seems really silly to say someone could get 20k-30k leaves per hour with an 'average' class/gear.

I wasn't around for last anniversary, but when Evo 3 used to make the fact that you weren't a good mobbing class irrelevant when it pulled mobs and you consider the pretty large drop/spawn advantage this player has... it doesn't seem like it's fair to cite that as what an 'average' player could expect for each run. Granted, even at 3k leaves that seems like 60m per hour(Assuming 20k each), so that's not bad, but certainly not the much greater gains you've made it out to be previously.

@fmonglobal: I also part took the anniversary event as a xenon. With only greed pendant and spider familiar, I only got on average 900-1.2k leaves per run. But I didn't complain that i needed more drop rate. I gambled with those leaves wisely and made a primed heart that sold for 12b which i actually underpriced a bit.

You know what i did after the event is over, I bought halloween perm nx and winter perm nx dirt cheap. I was able to resold the halloween perm nx 3 times its value.

Winter Perm NX was resold 2x its value.

I know there's a faster method to gain mesos but I didn't have time to play as much. Most of the time i just log in once a week.

At the time doing gollux was actually faster than my merching but I couldn't do gollux since i kept lagging.

As you see, profit is profit. It builds over time. Sometimes you gotta gamble and get lucky or you can just have a rant and do nothing

EDIT: and also the 9th anniversary boxes sometimes gives out primes. I sold those primes as service. 500m each

[quote=fmonglobal]It's not an excuse when it's valid. I partook in the anniversary last year and when I farmed leaves at evo lab (drop rate equips, Wolf underling, 3 pets with skills) I could little over 3,000 leaves per run. So I find it hard to believe an unfunded player can get 5,000 leaves a run.[/quote]

Because you were doing it wrong. I farmed my 20-30k leaves/hr with a single pet and spider.

While I didn't record my runs, Mazz recorded one of his getting 11k in 30 minutes, and he's a DB with mediocre mobbing skills.

http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-11_000_9th_anniversary_leaves_in_30_minutes___the_evo_system-Commentary-Video-29617.html

[quote=dr4g0ns1ay3r]@fmonglobal
here's the trend of you posting.

Every time @axnslicer gives a reasonable answer, you respond with an excuse like I cannot farm that much leaves since i don't have tons of drop rate or oh no my pet will not be able to pick up all the items. It is still profit. you only lose like 10-15% of the leaves. You can get greed pendant and spider/giant pig familiar. that's 80% drop rate.

Then you go on that my world is dead. I'm like if that's the case then you have to adjust yourself and find which is the most popular selling.

"not everyone has as much time as you do to spend so much time farming" @axnslicer gave a reasonable rate. Like some event can be only 200m/hr. That's only an hr You don't have to go full 4 hr grind.

You are just nitpicky of that everything has to be perfect. There are times that you have to cut your loss in order to gain some profit due to the lack of accessibility to certain items or lack of market.[/quote]It's not an excuse when it's valid. I partook in the anniversary last year and when I farmed leaves at evo lab (drop rate equips, Wolf underling, 3 pets with skills) I could little over 3,000 leaves per run. So I find it hard to believe an unfunded player can get 5,000 leaves a run.

@fmonglobal
here's the trend of you posting.

Every time @axnslicer gives a reasonable answer, you respond with an excuse like I cannot farm that much leaves since i don't have tons of drop rate or oh no my pet will not be able to pick up all the items. It is still profit. you only lose like 10-15% of the leaves. You can get greed pendant and spider/giant pig familiar. that's 80% drop rate.

Then you go on that my world is dead. I'm like if that's the case then you have to adjust yourself and find which is the most popular selling.

"not everyone has as much time as you do to spend so much time farming" @axnslicer gave a reasonable rate. Like some event can be only 200m/hr. That's only an hr You don't have to go full 4 hr grind.

You are just nitpicky of that everything has to be perfect. There are times that you have to cut your loss in order to gain some profit due to the lack of accessibility to certain items or lack of market.

[quote=fmonglobal]@Axnslicer: not everyone is in an active world with strong funded people in their connections, not everyone has as much time as you do to spend so much time farming, not everyone can play Maple when it's "most profitable" etc, just because these things, by no means can you expect other people to have the same opportunities.
[/quote]

Okay, so now that I've successfully proven that getting 2-2 M within 6 months without spending money is doable...though quite difficult, let me reiterate my original point.

You should be playing MS for fun, not damage. MS isn't p2w in the traditional sense because the only winning in MS is having fun. It doesn't matter whether you're 100k range or 8 M range, if you enjoy playing the game, you're doing it right.

Somehow managed to double post? Just.. ignore this I suppose.

[quote=Axnslicer]-snip-[/quote]

Yeah, I suppose the 'focus on making profit' is what keeps a lot of players from having a higher range(And that generally entails merching which is... bleh, so boring to me personally). A good Alliance/Guild are also pretty hard to find(At least in my opinion), and a lot of your choices seemed like it was just due to circumstance(In the sense of when bosses were profitable and you had a 'viable' main).

I loot decently well with one pet and no skills. I think you really only 'need' two pet skills for maximum efficiency(Increased range and having them work with platforms), and even then proper rotations work well enough to make up for both those.

The main problem with shops is that most games offer a similar function for free(Especially MMO's). It just seems really disrespectful to players to charge for shops when it's a pretty essential part of every MMO. That's just my opinion on it, but spamming in the FM is not as efficient, and Nexon giving free Owls makes spamming all but useless in my experience; having some form of auction house(Which is in KMS, I think?) would be a good move in the right direction. You can say it's "just 2$", but isn't that for merchants that aren't automated, meaning you have to idle for extended periods of time with your character? That just seems like a pretty big slap in the face(Not that Nexon isn't used to doing that).

But eh, just sell items once a month with reward points in the meantime. That's personally what I do and it works out decently well.

@Axnslicer: not everyone is in an active world with strong funded people in their connections, not everyone has as much time as you do to spend so much time farming, not everyone can play Maple when it's "most profitable" etc, just because these things, by no means can you expect other people to have the same opportunities.

Yes nice argument on the pets. 1 pet with 1 loot skill requires to to move around a lot and you will be bound to miss spots where your pet didn't pick up.

[quote=Tricks122]
I don't doubt you could get to 2M-2M within six months(Although I'd be interested at your play per day time)[/quote]

I managed 100k->over 3 M range within 6 months without paying a cent.

With roughly 100k in December 2013-January 2014, I farmed 10,000 RED coins to reach 500k-1 M range.
Then during the February Valentines Event I farmed nearly a million candy points for Prots/Cubes/Epic Pots/Bonus Pots/AEEs to reach 1-1.5 M range.
Next I used my numerous unique potential scrolls farmed from attendance events and the March Miracle Time to cube/tier my gear and reach 2-2.5 M.
And finally during the May 9th Anniversary I farmed roughly 2 million leaves, perfect primed my gear, sold the rest for 25-30k each, and used the Miracle time to get 3-4 M range.

Inbetween these events I was selling Gollux service from multiple characters and running CRA with a team weekly, you would be amazed how much a dozen Gollux/CRA mules adds to your profit over time.

For a regular player, I would expect a year of playing 2-3 hours (very focused on making profit) a day to reach 2-2 M range without spending NX.

[quote=fmonglobal]@Axnslicer: There are a minimum of 3 pet skills needed to loot sufficiently, each costing 1k NX. To get as many leaves as you wanted, oe would also need 3 pets. Pet Snack can be bought in the Reward Points shop, but the pet skills need to be bought for the other two pets as well, totalling to 9k NX spend on pet skills alone, The only way to avoid having to pay NX for Water of Lifes for each pet every time they expire (since Reward Points shop only sells 1 Water of Life a month) is to have each pet expire one month from the next, and use one Water of Life for the pet that expires that month. The problem with this is that if you take a break from Maple for even jsut a month or two, all your pets will be expired and you either have to pay NX for Water of Life or get some new pets (and buy pet skills wtih NX again). It can get expensive quickly.
[/quote]

This person thinks you need 3 pets + 3 pet skills to loot effectively. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, and that's really all I should need to say on the matter.

[quote=fmonglobal]
Again, a permit should be made available in-game because not everywhere wants to spend money on this game, and that needs to be respected..[/quote]

I'm not going to talk with you about a 1.8k NX permit. Don't get me wrong, I'm still all for free permits; but it's 1.8k NX, deal with it. I see no reason to respect misers who whine about spending $2. If you can't afford a shop then you can sell your items by spamming alliance/BL.

This isn't really a game that you're supposed to win at though... There's other ways to have fun in this game other than having the best damage/items,etc.

@Axnslicer 100% botting multi maples yeah snapped u out boy

@Axnslicer: There are a minimum of 3 pet skills needed to loot sufficiently, each costing 1k NX. To get as many leaves as you wanted, oe would also need 3 pets. Pet Snack can be bought in the Reward Points shop, but the pet skills need to be bought for the other two pets as well, totalling to 9k NX spend on pet skills alone, The only way to avoid having to pay NX for Water of Lifes for each pet every time they expire (since Reward Points shop only sells 1 Water of Life a month) is to have each pet expire one month from the next, and use one Water of Life for the pet that expires that month. The problem with this is that if you take a break from Maple for even jsut a month or two, all your pets will be expired and you either have to pay NX for Water of Life or get some new pets (and buy pet skills wtih NX again). It can get expensive quickly.

Again, a permit should be made available in-game because not everywhere wants to spend money on this game, and that needs to be respected..

[quote=Axnslicer]-snip-[/quote]

Yeah, making Gollux mules is a pretty tedious process, and I think there's more efficient ways nowadays. One Card is... well, save a Green card as your last one; you'd be surprised how many people will win the game for you with an Irena, but it's not a bad way to get Cubes/other goodies.

The main problem with CRA versus RA is that the RA bosses themselves(Not their Chaos versions) are a pushover in every sense of the word for me at 200k range. I definitely agree you don't need it to have fun, but if the normal versions of bosses were ACTUALLY difficult to do, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

I'm personally against getting leeched/carried for free things. It may be fast, but it's quite honestly one of the laziest and poorest mechanics in the game. It's really not your victory in the least, you're sitting there and doing nothing; I guess this is more of a personal thing, but I find it very hard to argue this is a 'viable way' to fund one's self when it's quite possibly the most reliant on others rather than your own skill-set/work.

100M-200M doing what, selling service? If you don't have rich, trusting friends willing to buy it that seems like wishful thinking. In the grand scheme of things, that's not really much for a casual player since farming it gets them locked out of other dailies; I've never heard of anyone doing this successfully(Nor do I find it being possible in some cases as many people willing to buy Cubes have character locked gear).

I don't doubt you could get to 2M-2M within six months(Although I'd be interested at your play per day time), but that's probably going to involve a heavy amount of merching on your part(Something that, just by nature of the trade, not everyone can do). I get your point, but for the average player progression is pretty slow, especially when that 600m/hour goes down the drain pretty quickly with little return if Nexon decides to screw you with upgrades. It's definitely enough to progress for some players, but past a certain point(Especially in that 'dead zone' where you need a huge range increase for new content) it's simply not enough for a reasonable pace.

[quote=fairystories]...Really?

The whole point of Nexon adjusting the NX prices when and how they did is precisely as you said: To prevent people from going to stores and hoarding NX cards before the changes were implemented.

What do you not understand about currency conversion?

[b]1 CAD = 0.82 USD[/b]

Do you know that that means? It means that 1 Canadian dollar cannot even buy you a 99 cent cheeseburger from any McDonald's in the US.

Nexon is a company that is based in the US. It makes sense for them to have their prices be in USD. Every other place in the world adheres to currency conversion, so why would Karma Koins be an exception? The fact is that players who were living outside of the US were paying [i]less[/i] for their NX than players in the US.

25 CAD = 20.45 USD
25 AUD = 19.69 USD

That means that people outside of the US were paying $5~6 USD less for 25k NX than US players. Not only was this unfair for US players, but it was one of the many ways that the company was basically hemorrhaging money. For those who aren't already aware, when a company loses money it's generally [i]very very very bad[/i].

This issue was rectified and now it's fair for all players. Nexon isn't responsible and has no control over the global economy, but they can at least control what price NX is sold for.

[/quote]

well if 1 CAD = 0.82 USD, they should be getting 8k per 10k instead of 7. I love how you're pretending as if Americans weren't smart enough to go on sites like PC gamesupply and bought Canadians code for USD, therefore they got the exact same "discount" as Canadians, among other countries. No matter how you look at it, Nexon screwed themselves doing this, they will make LESS money now compared to before. Other countries won't be as inclined to buy NX because they get less compared to past experiences. Americans won't buy as much because they can't take advantage of "discounts" on sites such pcgamesupply. Not every buys their nx fresh from the store.

[quote=Tricks122]Either I have horrible luck or Mining Cubes aren't really something you can rely on(I've got what, maybe 2~3 out of 100+ veins with both level 10 Herbalism/Mining if that matters). Gollux is limited if you're not selling service and Commerci is one I'll gladly give you as a consistently profitable way(I think it's something like 7~9 days per SW equip the optimal way without a Dreadnought, which is nothing to scoff at), as I will Reward Points. But this is a very limited amount of content and players can reach a certain wall that prevents progression even while doing this content.[/quote]

Fair point, I've noticed that cubes from mining have been slower recently as well.
When Gollux first came out I made a dozen Gollux mules and I've profited like 100-200 B from them. It's still okay, but I do miss selling scrolls 200 M each.
Reward points are the real winner at this point. But there's usually a limit of how much One Card we can play before it becomes boring as well. Or you rage quit because someone plays an Irena and wins the game one turn before you play your last card.

[quote=Tricks122]
I'm just going to specify that I don't care too much about range(I play a Buccaneer after all), nor about excessive amounts of funds(Which is why I Commerci towards a Dreadnought and not for pure profit). But you hit a road-block pretty early on where a lot of bosses are either too easy or too hard, and progression(In the sense of 'unlocking' new things to do successfully, mainly bosses) just halts; perhaps this is partially due to my class having poor bossing abilities, but it definitely feels like a bit more than that.
[/quote]

It's true there's a damage gap between 500-1.5 M where there's not much you can solo, and that this gap is more pronounced for classes like Buccs than NWs/Zeros. But really everything above 1.5 M is funded territory, you don't actually need to touch it to have fun in the game. Hell and Hard mode Gollux have basically the same mechanics, and the same can be said for CRA vs RA and Hard vs Normal Magnus.

[quote=Tricks122]
As for my stance against teamwork, to the contrary; teamwork is great, but in my experience most 'teamwork' involves either you being carried(Not really 'teamwork' as much as 'do the work for me'; would you say that you loading boxes with a crane into a cargo ship with me standing by watching you is also 'teamwork'? It doesn't seem so to me.) or has you doing an average boss(Note: something most people can solo, myself included) with people who don't have the courtesy to turn pet loot off. Most of my friends willing to be decent and not insta-loot tend to be pretty well funded, so it's not really teamwork if they're doing everything and I'm not. [/quote]

Lol, you're right. It's not really teamwork like we traditionally think of teamwork. It's more, you loot for a funded player at CRA/Magnus/Hellux, and they'll give you 20-40% of the profit from the extra loot you bring in.

It's kind of similar to the deal that support classes get, HS/Kanna/Bind/Heaven's Door and they'll let you leech exp or pay you for your service.

Being carried by funded players is one of the fastest and easiest ways to get funded yourself. You just need to think with a support mindset, their victory is your victory, their exp is your exp, and their profit is your profit.

[quote=Tricks122]
As for events, I'm not against them, but saying the game is less pay to win on the basis that events can sometimes be ridiculously profitable and are highly advantageous in comparison to the more difficult, always available content(Much less saying that "It's not even hard lol.&quot seems like poor phrasing. Simply put, if people have to rely on events regularly for higher amounts of profit, it seems more like the game is 'pay to win sometimes, other times not' with how massive the profit events can sometimes yield in comparison to normal Gollux/Commerci/Mining Cubes/Reward Points with the same time put in.[/quote]

Reward point farming puts a pretty solid baseline at 100-200 M/hr. Event farming is currently netting me around 300-600 M per hour, which I'm going to expand into 500M-1 B/hr through merching.

My phrasing was to show that you could earn 40 B in a month from profitable events, in response to someone expressing disbelief over getting 2-2 M range within 6 months without spending your real life money.

It's possible, I actually got significantly more than 2-2 M range within 6 months w/o ever touching my bank account, and this was before all those "Better Maple" updates. I'm still kind of miffed than I spent so much effort on getting 8 M range right before Nexon decided crash the 12-21% stat market by increasing tier up rates and giving us like 10x cube drop rates.

If I started on a new world with no connections/money/NX/mesos, I could have a leg item within a week, and 2-2 M range within 6 months easily.

[quote=Axnslicer]Gollux. Commerci. Boss cubes. Mining cubes. Reward points. Any one of those methods works, though naturally slower than events or working together with funded players. Though I'm not sure why you're so dead-set against teamwork or beneficial events.

My posts were to show that getting 2-2 M range within 6 months without spending your real life money was possible. I've shown that pretty decisively.

My actual point is that the goal isn't getting 2-2M range anyway, it's to enjoy playing the game. Many players can testify that they enjoy the game just fine without max range.[/quote]

Either I have horrible luck or Mining Cubes aren't really something you can rely on(I've got what, maybe 2~3 out of 100+ veins with both level 10 Herbalism/Mining if that matters). Gollux is limited if you're not selling service and Commerci is one I'll gladly give you as a consistently profitable way(I think it's something like 7~9 days per SW equip the optimal way without a Dreadnought, which is nothing to scoff at), as I will Reward Points. But this is a very limited amount of content and players can reach a certain wall that prevents progression even while doing this content.

I'm just going to specify that I don't care too much about range(I play a Buccaneer after all), nor about excessive amounts of funds(Which is why I Commerci towards a Dreadnought and not for pure profit). But you hit a road-block pretty early on where a lot of bosses are either too easy or too hard, and progression(In the sense of 'unlocking' new things to do successfully, mainly bosses) just halts; perhaps this is partially due to my class having poor bossing abilities, but it definitely feels like a bit more than that.

As for my stance against teamwork, to the contrary; teamwork is great, but in my experience most 'teamwork' involves either you being carried(Not really 'teamwork' as much as 'do the work for me'; would you say that you loading boxes with a crane into a cargo ship with me standing by watching you is also 'teamwork'? It doesn't seem so to me.) or has you doing an average boss(Note: something most people can solo, myself included) with people who don't have the courtesy to turn pet loot off. Most of my friends willing to be decent and not insta-loot tend to be pretty well funded, so it's not really teamwork if they're doing everything and I'm not. As for events, I'm not against them, but saying the game is less pay to win on the basis that events can sometimes be ridiculously profitable and are highly advantageous in comparison to the more difficult, always available content(Much less saying that "It's not even hard lol.&quot seems like poor phrasing. Simply put, if people have to rely on events regularly for higher amounts of profit, it seems more like the game is 'pay to win sometimes, other times not' with how massive the profit events can sometimes yield in comparison to normal Gollux/Commerci/Mining Cubes/Reward Points with the same time put in.

[quote=fmonglobal]@Axnslicer: you said a free paying player can get 10,000 leaves from 2 evo lab runs... yeah, sorry, this ends here.

And now you're claiming buying pet skills and a permit doesn't count as paying because it doesn't seem like much? If I wanted to be baby-fed, I would demand frequent Hot Day gifts and get a permit or store from there. I'm not saying these stuff should be free, but they should be obtainable in-game.[/quote]

You might want to read my quote again.

[quote=Axnslicer]Last anniversary leaves sold for 25k each. An hour in Evo lab netted me 10,000+ leaves. That's 500 M/hr = 1.2 B per day.
[/quote]

You're complaining about paying $1 vs having to move a little to loot. In the amount of time you've spent whining you could have made $8 working as a waiter. But whatever, you can keep crying about how unfair life is for making you pay a dollar. Meanwhile the rest of us will be enjoying the event.

@Axnslicer: you said a free paying player can get 10,000 leaves from 2 evo lab runs... yeah, sorry, this ends here.

And now you're claiming buying pet skills and a permit doesn't count as paying because it doesn't seem like much? If I wanted to be baby-fed, I would demand frequent Hot Day gifts and get a permit or store from there. I'm not saying these stuff should be free, but they should be obtainable in-game.

@GlobalKorean: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=AUD&to=USD&view=5Y

during 2011, 1 AUS dollar reached just over $1.10 USA dollar.

and yes you'e right about the game cards previously. where paying $12 for a card only gave you 10k NX but at least it correctly specified how much NX each card gave you.

@fmonglobal: Just to clarify, you're pretty wrong about AUD having a higher value than USD. In the past only for less than a year did the Aussie Dollar actually beat USD and it wasnt even a large margin, 1 AUD equalled 1.05 USD which happened over 4 years ago (i remember this well as I was still in high school...) If you're basing your information of Australia's pricing off that then I highly recommend you to edit your post.

I understand your frustration though. With the currency conversion coming along and that NexonNA announced that we'd be losing about 25% of NX per purchase, I was hoping that they'd reduce the pricing on NX items by atleast 10%, to ease the currency conversion rates. However as they havent done something like this, complaining about it wont make a difference.
Like any economic break downs either you quit and give up or stand back up and move forward. I prefer to move forward then eat dirt..

@fairystories:
I know other Australian players can confirm this with me, but from my experiences, before Karma Koins were introduced we had the original Nexon Game Cards and whenever I bought a $30 game card, I would only obtain $24. That was already 1-2years ago and like most Aussie's we've already grown accustomed to the pricing of NexonNA, so dont whine at us that we've had it better than you. We always had to pay tax for game cards, due to currency exchange rates. We never paid 5-6 dollars less than anyone.

[quote=fmonglobal]@Axnslicer: If by looting features you mean your pet has incredibly limited range and will only loots what your character walks over, sure, good like getting 10,000 leaves that way.
[/quote]

You complain the game is too p2w. I explain that you can make money from farming.
You complain you can't afford a pet for farming. I show you can get a pet from the reward shop.
You complain it doesn't have looting. I tell you it does.
You complain it has limited range. Yeah, sorry, this ends here.

You've reached the point where you're even whining about a 1k NX pet skill and a 1.8k NX shop permit. Do you want everything baby fed to you on a silver spoon?

At some point you're going to need to stop whining and actually work for what you want.

@Axnslicer: If by looting features you mean your pet has incredibly limited range and will only loots what your character walks over, sure, good like getting 10,000 leaves that way. And I don't think people are willing to get a 90 day out every 90 pets because that is more expensive than getting a perm pet esp when you want to buy features for it.

Sure, in theory you can get 2m range in 6 months if you wasted your life on it and dedicated your whole time to it, but even funded people could not farm 10,000 leaves in 2 evo runs in the old evo lab. And getting a permit requires someone buying NX.

[quote=fmonglobal]You and I probably have a different definition of funded then because I wouldn't expect an unfunded player to survive Hard Hilla. And not everyone has funded and strong friends that their beck and cal, esp if you're weak. Blackheart pet or Reward Point pet aren't perm and do not come with any looting features, how can you expect them to farm 10,000 leaves in an hour?
[/quote]

My mules with 70k range survive Hard Hilla just fine. We don't mind carrying people through Hard Hilla. Funded players are generally pretty nice and willing to help out, they're just sick of hearing "mesos plz".

Reward point pets and blackheart do come with looting features. And 90 days of life is longer than the entire anniversary. Check your facts next time.

[quote=Tricks122] If the game forces players to rely on events then it clearly doesn't offer enough well-balance opportunities for players to advance.
Can you really say that the game is less 'pay to win' when the only way to progress is to hope that players can exploit a certain event for massive profit rather than actually be rewarded on a similar level for their work in other tasks? I'm not going to argue that some events can be very profitable, but not everyone can exploit these for various reasons, and progression is pretty difficult otherwise.[/quote]

Gollux. Commerci. Boss cubes. Mining cubes. Reward points. Any one of those methods works, though naturally slower than events or working together with funded players. Though I'm not sure why you're so dead-set against teamwork or beneficial events.

My posts were to show that getting 2-2 M range within 6 months without spending your real life money was possible. I've shown that pretty decisively.

My actual point is that the goal isn't getting 2-2M range anyway, it's to enjoy playing the game. Many players can testify that they enjoy the game just fine without max range.

[quote=Axnslicer]Stop whining about past events. I didn't give those as examples for you to complain about, they're shown to illustrate the pattern.

The past is full of opportunities you've missed, what's important is to see the opportunities that stand in front of you.[/quote]

There's a pattern that's hit and miss. Some events are profitable, others are not. There are few consistent ways to earn mesos without exploiting hackers/strong players(Both of which can be argued as not progressing at all or as being inherently flawed as methods of self-progression) for several reasons. If the game forces players to rely on events then it clearly doesn't offer enough well-balance opportunities for players to advance.

Can you really say that the game is less 'pay to win' when the only way to progress is to hope that players can exploit a certain event for massive profit rather than actually be rewarded on a similar level for their work in other tasks? I'm not going to argue that some events can be very profitable, but not everyone can exploit these for various reasons, and progression is pretty difficult otherwise.

[quote=Axnslicer]No one needs to be funded to be carried through Hard Hilla, or to buy a pet from the Rewards Shop.

The irony is amusing. Those of us actually farming will get the joke.

Something to read when you get tired of making excuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

Stop whining about past events. I didn't give those as examples for you to complain about, they're shown to illustrate the pattern.

The past is full of opportunities you've missed, what's important is to see the opportunities that stand in front of you.[/quote]
You and I probably have a different definition of funded then because I wouldn't expect an unfunded player to survive Hard Hilla. And not everyone has funded and strong friends that their beck and cal, esp if you're weak. Blackheart pet or Reward Point pet aren't perm and do not come with any looting features, how can you expect them to farm 10,000 leaves in an hour?

Stop talking in circles. You think that Nexon always hands out these freebies so that free players can survive?

[quote=fmonglobal]
What about now, how does a non-paying player get a decent perm pet that is good for looting?
[/quote]

No one needs to be funded to be carried through Hard Hilla, or to buy a pet from the Rewards Shop.

[quote=fmonglobal]
And you cannot expect the majority of people to be able to farm 10,000 leaves in an hour. Not only does that require a ton of expensive drop buffs, equips and a Wolf familiar, not everyone is a class suited for mobbing.
[/quote]

The irony is amusing. Those of us actually farming will get the joke.

Something to read when you get tired of making excuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

Stop whining about past events. I didn't give those as examples for you to complain about, they're shown to illustrate the pattern.

The past is full of opportunities you've missed, what's important is to see the opportunities that stand in front of you.

[quote=Mynameisgregory]ffs, Nexon is a publicly traded company and you are surprised that they are all about money? Dunno what to say about that. Also, check out the events! For example, the Murgoth Dungeon event allowed many people to raise their range from a measly 50k to 1mil after waiting a couple of months to sell their items.[/quote]
Again, that is a past event that players can no longer do. What is Nexon doing now? [quote=AntiSenpai]Jesus, you complain too damn much.

Nexon is a company, of course they care about money more than you.

Is lowering prices and making things so they lose money going to pay their bills?

You need to stop thinking all about yourself, you're the greedy one.

You cry cause they adjusted the Nx, why? Cause you can't get cheap Nx anymore?

I believe somewhere it was explained rather thoroughly about why they did it, and it actually made sense. You should do some reading on that, cause people like me, you and many others were taking advantage of the Cheap CAD Nx, it's stupid to think we'll keep being able to get cheap ass nx, when others have to pay more.

Get over it man, none of this has anything to do with Nexon caring for its players.

Nexon has been improving many aspects of the game.

Cube drops (Yes they did nerf them, but even since then i get at least 5 a day, just from my daily bosses with only a spider for drop rate.)

Customer Support is back! Better than ever, Live chat is amazing, and if Live chat can't help you, ticketing takes less than a day to get an reply.

The perm NX from the boxes are godly, the royal hairs and eyes are amazing and you want to make it seem as if they did it just cause they adjusted the nx? Seem like someone wearing a foil hat, don't ya.

Nexon, as a company is becoming better to it's players, even is Artasi or w.e his name is, is an meh person, the Game Masters, are being pretty damn awesome, and very straight forward.

I don't know what you're going through when you play, but my experiences have gotten so much better as of late.[/quote]
I complain because I'm right, which most people realise, but sadly yet again you don't.

NX was never cheap in the first place. Customising your avatar's appearance and improving your range can be extremely costly as many players will attest to.

By adjusting the NX rates, their sales will plummet from the countries affected. And thank you for further proving my point on Nexon deliberately putting a better array of items on sale after the NX rate adjustments.
[quote=o0Raul0o]This game isn't even pay2win anymore. Like, at all. With all these events and free cubes from mining and farmable spots, the elite bosses and gollux...
The game has reached a balanced point where pretty much everything that's possible to payers, is also possible for those who don't.
We still need to get rid of the FM and have a working auction house, and make sure EVERY PLAYER gets a permanent(!) pet for free, because those are just
basic necessities for playing maplestory, other than that I think it's in a great state[/quote]
I forgot to mention how Miracle Time is only for Red and Black cubes and how unfair that is to those who farm and craft cubes. I can understand that it may be quite imbalanced, but they could limit the number of In-Ha me cubes affected by Miracle Time to perhaps 5 or 10.

You can't expect a non-paying player to get anywhere near the level of a paying player. How does a free player manage their bonus pot? They can't, and bonus pot scrolls are rare and mostly obtainable from the Cash Shop. Philosopher's Book holds no boom AEEs so a free player can forget about getting 15 star tyrants (or anything past 7). How does a free player sell their items? Me chants are in the Reward Points shop but those only last a day, and permits require NX. You've hit a roadblock.
[quote=Axnslicer]As a matter of fact, I have both free perm pets from the NX giveaway events, and I used both during the anniversary. But really, I could have just asked one of my friends to carry me through hard hilla for the free blackheart pet.

This year the anniversary has a trick. I'm sure most people have already realized that while farming leaves is still quite profitable, there's a faster method.[/quote]What about now, how does a non-paying player get a decent perm pet that is good for looting? It's impossible, and I wouldn't expect many people to have those pets from 2 years ago.

And you cannot expect the majority of people to be able to farm 10,000 leaves in an hour. Not only does that require a ton of expensive drop buffs, equips and a Wolf familiar, not everyone is a class suited for mobbing.
[quote=MishaPlease]Not sure if true but definitely made me chuckled. [/quote]
It's not true. Don't chuckle. [quote=fairystories]...Really?

The whole point of Nexon adjusting the NX prices when and how they did is precisely as you said: To prevent people from going to stores and hoarding NX cards before the changes were implemented.

What do you not understand about currency conversion?

[b]1 CAD = 0.82 USD[/b]

Do you know that that means? It means that 1 Canadian dollar cannot even buy you a 99 cent cheeseburger from any McDonald's in the US.

Nexon is a company that is based in the US. It makes sense for them to have their prices be in USD. Every other place in the world adheres to currency conversion, so why would Karma Koins be an exception? The fact is that players who were living outside of the US were paying [i]less[/i] for their NX than players in the US.

25 CAD = 20.45 USD
25 AUD = 19.69 USD

That means that people outside of the US were paying $5~6 USD less for 25k NX than US players. Not only was this unfair for US players, but it was one of the many ways that the company was basically hemorrhaging money. For those who aren't already aware, when a company loses money it's generally [i]very very very bad[/i].

This issue was rectified and now it's fair for all players. Nexon isn't responsible and has no control over the global economy, but they can at least control what price NX is sold for.

People need to shut up and just be grateful they got to save a few hundred CAD or AUD on NX at all.[/quote]
Yes they didn't tell their players because of their greed. I like how you conveniently what I said about CAD and AUS having a stronger dollar than USA before but the rates were never adjusted back then. It has lasted this long like this and now because of the change, does Nexon really think their sales won't be affected?

[quote=fmonglobal]The NX price adjustments were unnecessary and out of line. Why now? Implementing it straight away, as if to catch people off-guard so that they couldn't go and buy a large amount of NX and hoard it seemed like a typically greedy move on their behalf. And it seemed Nexon tried to sweep it under the rug by only posting a short notice of on their website, as if to hope people wouldn't know about it, but be covered for when people do find out. The Australian and Canadian dollar have been higher than the USD before, so why weren't the rates adjusted then? The Euro has always been higher than the USD, so why do Europeans have to pay more for NX too?[/quote]

...Really?

The whole point of Nexon adjusting the NX prices when and how they did is precisely as you said: To prevent people from going to stores and hoarding NX cards before the changes were implemented.

What do you not understand about currency conversion?

[b]1 CAD = 0.82 USD[/b]

Do you know that that means? It means that 1 Canadian dollar cannot even buy you a 99 cent cheeseburger from any McDonald's in the US.

Nexon is a company that is based in the US. It makes sense for them to have their prices be in USD. Every other place in the world adheres to currency conversion, so why would Karma Koins be an exception? The fact is that players who were living outside of the US were paying [i]less[/i] for their NX than players in the US.

25 CAD = 20.45 USD
25 AUD = 19.69 USD

That means that people outside of the US were paying $5~6 USD less for 25k NX than US players. Not only was this unfair for US players, but it was one of the many ways that the company was basically hemorrhaging money. For those who aren't already aware, when a company loses money it's generally [i]very very very bad[/i].

This issue was rectified and now it's fair for all players. Nexon isn't responsible and has no control over the global economy, but they can at least control what price NX is sold for.

People need to shut up and just be grateful they got to save a few hundred CAD or AUD on NX at all.

[quote=FwuffehStarz]I don't mind the price adjustment, just feels like I'm paying tax which I didn't pay for before.[/quote]

You do know that you're paying 21% more ....thats probably the highest tax you'll ever come across

[quote=wanker]Providing a service to someone is not assistance. By that means, selling someone an item would mean they are "assisting" you.
There is so much to gain from providing services and items to other people, that take nothing more than a level 180 character.[/quote]

I fail to understand your point, as providing a service = giving assistance or helping in all that manner. Now if you were to say selling an item cheaply to you, then that would make sense. If you were to say gaining an item for free then that would fall under the part of assistance.

[quote=dilweezy]lol

the op complaining about pay to win when his knowledge of the game is terrible and he spends his money on nx to look "cute" with bright eyes[/quote]

Not sure if true but definitely made me chuckled.

ffs, Nexon is a publicly traded company and you are surprised that they are all about money? Dunno what to say about that. Also, check out the events! For example, the Murgoth Dungeon event allowed many people to raise their range from a measly 50k to 1mil after waiting a couple of months to sell their items.

[quote=MerkelsDisk]@Axnslicer: That's under an event and in a sense you were taking a advantage of an event. Furthermore, you needed a pet, which would require Nx. So you would have to spend Nx already to get a pet. Of course if you were present during the and managed to snag one of the free perma pet from the 2013 event then this point is dismissed. However, under a hypothetical means of "No assistance and help" we will simply say it did not occur. Therefore, to suggest collecting every 10,000+ leaves in 1 hour, with drop items disappearing every 1-2 minutes, If that is achievable with pressing "Z" I would say that's hardcore devotion and would apologize. However, unless if my logic is working I don't see that happening easily. Furthermore, I do not know if the drop rate for leaves this year was a reflection of last year, but getting 10,000 leaves in one hour is pretty difficult of course if you had drop rate multiplier then I could see it happening.[/quote]

As a matter of fact, I have both free perm pets from the NX giveaway events, and I used both during the anniversary. But really, I could have just asked one of my friends to carry me through hard hilla for the free blackheart pet.

This year the anniversary has a trick. I'm sure most people have already realized that while farming leaves is still quite profitable, there's a faster method.

@Axnslicer: That's under an event and in a sense you were taking a advantage of an event. Furthermore, you needed a pet, which would require Nx. So you would have to spend Nx already to get a pet. Of course if you were present during the and managed to snag one of the free perma pet from the 2013 event then this point is dismissed. However, under a hypothetical means of "No assistance and help" we will simply say it did not occur. Therefore, to suggest collecting every 10,000+ leaves in 1 hour, with drop items disappearing every 1-2 minutes, If that is achievable with pressing "Z" I would say that's hardcore devotion and would apologize. However, unless if my logic is working I don't see that happening easily. Furthermore, I do not know if the drop rate for leaves this year was a reflection of last year, but getting 10,000 leaves in one hour is pretty difficult of course if you had drop rate multiplier then I could see it happening.

@Wanker and once again I said "no assistance"

This game isn't even pay2win anymore. Like, at all. With all these events and free cubes from mining and farmable spots, the elite bosses and gollux...
The game has reached a balanced point where pretty much everything that's possible to payers, is also possible for those who don't.
We still need to get rid of the FM and have a working auction house, and make sure EVERY PLAYER gets a permanent(!) pet for free, because those are just
basic necessities for playing maplestory, other than that I think it's in a great state

[quote=Axnslicer]It's not even hard lol. Last anniversary leaves sold for 25k each. An hour in Evo lab netted me 10,000+ leaves. That's 500 M/hr = 1.2 B per day.

The anniversary lasted a month. Playing just a single character less than 3 hours a day, I made around 40 B just from farming leaves in Evo.[/quote]

Great, just let me get my time machine and go back to that time period. Oh wait, I'm sorry, I can't. Silly me.

Generally people who aren't as funded have to rely on these events, and I haven't seen this year's events going particularly well in terms of money making. I don't think it's fair to say that it's "not even hard" when every method relies on events that may or may not be profitable, rather than actual dedication on the game's normal content. I mean, is every event a gold-mine and I'm somehow missing it, or is it that events are the only way to progress, which means that those of us who were left out(I wasn't playing at that time) are out of luck and can't progress anymore due to how poor the out of event money making is?

[quote=MerkelsDisk]@wanker: The issue with the" problem with this" part is that I was referring to those who are working to upgrade actively. Obviously those who do not work will not achieve a reasonable range, however those that are working hard without funding(s) to achieve a reasonable range.

However, in response to your second part, although the game is now more structured to be help those who are not spending money on the game. I can not actually agree with the part where you would suggest that someone could achieve 2-2m range without any funding(s) or help at the beginning.[/quote]

It's not even hard lol. Last anniversary leaves sold for 25k each. An hour in Evo lab netted me 20,000+ leaves. That's 500 M/hr = 1.2 B per day.

The anniversary lasted a month. Playing just a single character less than 3 hours a day, I made around 40 B from farming leaves in Evo.

There was the valentines event where they gave prots/epic potential scrolls/bonus potential scrolls/cubes out for Candy Points. You could farm 10 prots a day and sell them 200 M each, so 2 B/day.

There was the treasure hunt event which gave css, lucky days, chaos scrolls, and innocence scrolls. You could open about 300 treasure boxes/hour, which was like 30 LDS = 750 M/hr.

Right now primes are selling for 300 coins, after the anniversary people will be buying them 500-1 B each. I've been using a method to get 300 coins/hr and currently have around 20,000 coins. I'm sure you can figure out the rest.

It's not hard to get funded without spending NX, people are just lazy.

Also, 3 days ago leaf prices were 5-6k. Now they're over 10k. If you had timed your buying correctly, you could have doubled your investment in 3 days.

Hey can someone inform me about the nx rate changes? I just came back half a month ago

I see your point. However, Nexon is a company first and foremost. With the NX Adjustments, it only made sense not to let the whole wide world know until it happened. They were losing money you have to compensate for it. Also with the thing about the 2x Coup. no one is forcing you to buy it. You are more than free to play the game the way YOU see fit. It's your story! If you want to try for 2-2m no clown without ANY NX whatsoever that is your personal goal. You have to try and put yourself in their shoes. Lets say you were the CEO of Nexon, one day you noticed one the Global Branch of Nexon was actually losing out on potential profit (MS/Mag./etc etc games) due the strength/weakness of currency. This branch of Nexon is based in I think SoCal? Therefore they have to pay their employee's with USD. The profit that in turn pays the employee's was being infringed due the the currency differential therefore it had to be balanced somehow.

@wanker: The issue with the" problem with this" part is that I was referring to those who are working to upgrade actively. Obviously those who do not work will not achieve a reasonable range, however those that are working hard without funding(s) to achieve a reasonable range.

However, in response to your second part, although the game is now more structured to be help those who are not spending money on the game. I can not actually agree with the part where you would suggest that someone could achieve 2-2m range without any funding(s) or help at the beginning. If this is plausible, then I'd really like to see how an individual could get 2m range under 6 months without a dime spent in addition without abusing any event or violating the ToS. Many people have made such a claim before, but I would like to see one that catalogs and record it. I don't mean one would have to record everyday, but once every few days would be nice. I respect those who have done it regardless of the amount of time it took them, but to suggest within 6 months is very hard to fathom for me and I'm sure I speak for a lot of people as well.

You either work hard in game to get those items, or work hard irl to get those items.
It is all your choice.

[quote=MerkelsDisk]@Axnslicer I don't mean to be rude, but you do realize [b]you do have a 2-2M range main?[/b] Whereas those that you considered poor and are whining [b]do not have a character and are attempting to fund just one character to achieve a desirable range?[/b] So in terms of perspectives you will be looking at it differently than them* (Edit)[/quote]

Ever find it strange that there are no threads claiming that being funded is enjoyable? It's because once you're fully funded you realize the truth, that winning MS isn't about funding, it's about having fun. As the quote goes, life is a journey, not a destination.