General

@Winner: yeah, I found that to be the case so long as I stand behind the head, which is what I've been doing now.

[quote=hangwithhung]

By the way, when you do HT, during the first two stages when the heads appear from the walls, do you notice that your skills are kind of like... unresponsive? I don't know, I'll try to toggle Slice and Shield in between Exceed hits and they just don't respond and I have to jump around and move before I can use any other skill, and by the time I can use Exceed again the counters have reset and I have to start stacking all over again. That's one of the problems I'm facing with DA, if I spend too much time away from Exceed, it feels like it takes forever to get it to start up again.[/quote]

I find it's a range/distance problem. There is a certain distance near the head where you will face these problems. I just move a little bit away from the head and I can "spam" shield and execution as normal.

@hangwithhung: Well ultimately you shouldn't really be aiming for 100% PDR. It's just 90+ or a little more than 90 is good.
DA's 1v1 power isn't horrid though. You shouldn't think that and if funded well enough it outshines a lot of other classes.

The special trait potion things are a fixed amount of exp. So like 2500 of a stat or something. Able enough to get you from 1-30 from 1 of them. Then like 30-40 something or almost 50. That's just an example.
I haven't done HT enough to know the fix for it but I'm sure one of the things you mentioned probably help reduce the lag. Either way I have noticed that myself with the spammable skills. Also not a problem and I'm glad to help! ^^

@SlyOne: I think one of the things that saddens me most about DAs is that their skill is so amazing but I don't know if it's going to be as efficient as a dedicated 1v1, despite its power. Mm... Hella awesome mobbing and avg bossing vs hella trash mobbing for above avg bossing. That is the question to juggle between for classes haha. I feel that 100% PDR Ignore is just a pain to achieve and most people I know have given up on it :[

It is a pretty nasty way to go about doing it and I'd rather just use a trait booster but... oh well. I think they do have those, like once every so often. Or maybe it's not +100, just +30 or +50 from the special trait booster thinggies? Hmm.

HT's not that bad, the two heads are a pain but that's it. Either they've fixed it or standing close to where the heads pop out of generally reduces the lagathon I'm not too sure. Yeah, Nexon's new unspammable skills makes playing any class hard unless you're a chaining/comboing class Oooh I rather enjoy the guides haha. thanks!

[quote=hangwithhung]@SlyOne: nah all good. i've been super busy myself and so i only check basil 1-2 times a day and i don't have a ton of time to post lengthy responses to anything lol.

Yeah, I thought it might be useful because you can hit the hotkey to make it go back and forth but then you have two limiting factors, one being the duration and the other being the number of hits you get. I found that if you activate it and send it at a boss, like Zakum, and hold the key right when the bats are over Zak, it'll just keep going back and forth and it won't leave, but that requires you to take your fingers off of all the other keys otherwise it won't work. And if that's the case, well... I mean I'd rather be hitting with Exceed than with a skill that only does like 300% dmg and hits only every one second or so. I think it was a gimmicky feature but it wasn't even useful for training. Like at DIPQ it doesn't even run to the edge of the screen before it runs out :[

Yeah, I love Exceed's range but I honestly wish there was a %Boss Bonus like on Slayer's Demon Impact. I think they get +40% boss damage on top of 100% crits x_x oh well I guess they kind of need it, they hit super slow. Honestly I think that with trash funding I out DPS'd my DS which had like 300 mil worth of equips... %STR is so pricey lol. But yeah my DS had a full Faf set and I was only hitting 1.2 - 1.3m on bosses... My DA doesn't even have any %Boss. But, then again DS DOES get Blue Blood and that is always nice :]

I guess the lv 11-12 not falling by the hour is a good thing because then that means you can actually craft cubes and whatnot lol. Nah, it's the same in Windia, too. There's only like 2-3 people who sell any ores at all anymore and those things are 100k each. It'll cost a fortune just to get to lv 10, let alone unlearn and start the profession all over again. However, I do have the max number of characters and I was thinking it might be possible to just use every one of them and mine until I max fatigue. I'd probably get a few hundred easily in a day but honestly the harvesting and mining processes in MS is such a pain in the butt I don't think I'm willing to put that much time and effort into crafting haha. I'm considering just getting to lvl 10 and doing the one craft per day thing to max out diligence. It's probably more cost effective and doesn't take that much longer.

Ohh I didn't know Willpower did all that... so I'm guessing it's 10% MaxHP, Def, and Status resist, too? That's really good... however, I am kind of wondering if I want to switch to a Zero. I love the bossing capabilities on my DA but the skills Zero has just... they blow my mind haha. There's less wait time/setup required for it and I think I might enjoy it. But if I can't fund a Zero enough to take on bosses faster or easier than on my DA, I think I'll come right back to my DA.

By the way, when you do HT, during the first two stages when the heads appear from the walls, do you notice that your skills are kind of like... unresponsive? I don't know, I'll try to toggle Slice and Shield in between Exceed hits and they just don't respond and I have to jump around and move before I can use any other skill, and by the time I can use Exceed again the counters have reset and I have to start stacking all over again. That's one of the problems I'm facing with DA, if I spend too much time away from Exceed, it feels like it takes forever to get it to start up again.

Hmm... level 60? Or +60 Willpower EXP? I'm considering just going crazy during the events and just picking up every drop I can find for the trait EXP stuff. Those are like +100 EXP for a trait per pop lol. Just hot key it and get like 1mil exp in a day Other than that I think logging on a character and just leaving it there gives Willpower so I might just AFK on my characters overnight lol.[/quote]

Haha, understood
That's exactly what I was saying, so yeah at this point just a skill to have unless you can cap with it or make the most of it at Hellux summons. Since it can fall and turn on platforms. Pretty sure there might be more uses for it!
And while Exceed Execution might not have any boss damage on it, don't forget about that innate 30% PDR. Which on top of your other 30% DEF ignore Nether Slice you also get 30% from that passive Expertise. DA's could possibly get highest PDR if they really tried just won't be shown on the screen.

Crafting like that eh sounds terrible. Though it might be worth it in the long run you would be putting off too much time to get ores and such for whatever you needed. I don't really craft for cubes much but when I do I guess it really depends. Too bad their nonexistant here. At least you have people selling something haha. I wish they had some system where you can stand in a spot and afk and mine some stuff at least for a set time not too long though. Would be useful however people could always find ways to abuse it which could be what holds them back.
Willpower is 2000HP at level 100. So no not MaxHP%. Only HP and that Def and Status resist. DEF is negligible as it's so miniscule.
I saw your Zero thread though and it wouldn't be a bad idea. What you could do is get your DA to 200. Level it casually until you get to 210 for the link skill I have a guildie who seems to have some just regular sets and it didn't take him too long as long as your motivated enough. But you can still start your Zero. Ya know so you have osmething at least!
Zero's could have their faults though. They can be bad at bossing depending on your control and how you play them.

Haven't done HT on DA at all 'cause I get too lazy but yes it's like that for every character. The heads map are glitched I believe and I know from playing my Dark Knight the same thing happens all the time. Even potting gets unresponsive sometimes. It has bad lag too.
If you stand in one spot too long using Nether shield and execution you will need to move around for the anti-bot thing so it doesn't stop you from attacking. Nonoo you might not be using overload release when you're suppose to as well. If you do it too early then yes that can happen and it will cripple you especially if you needed it most. I guess it takes practice but you'll know eventually there are times where you have to manage without those 20 stacks and build them. You shouldn't be spending much time away from exceed anyways as it's your most powerful skillset and fastest too!

+10 Willpower after 4 hours of staying online and if you check the guide [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Personality-Ambition-Empathy-Insight-Willpower-Dilligence-Charm.html]here[/url] and [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Guide-Personality-Traits-455.html]here[/url] they should help you out enough..
Yes afk overnight is the best way And I don't recall anything giving 100 exp per item? o.O

@SlyOne: nah all good. i've been super busy myself and so i only check basil 1-2 times a day and i don't have a ton of time to post lengthy responses to anything lol.

Yeah, I thought it might be useful because you can hit the hotkey to make it go back and forth but then you have two limiting factors, one being the duration and the other being the number of hits you get. I found that if you activate it and send it at a boss, like Zakum, and hold the key right when the bats are over Zak, it'll just keep going back and forth and it won't leave, but that requires you to take your fingers off of all the other keys otherwise it won't work. And if that's the case, well... I mean I'd rather be hitting with Exceed than with a skill that only does like 300% dmg and hits only every one second or so. I think it was a gimmicky feature but it wasn't even useful for training. Like at DIPQ it doesn't even run to the edge of the screen before it runs out :[

Yeah, I love Exceed's range but I honestly wish there was a %Boss Bonus like on Slayer's Demon Impact. I think they get +40% boss damage on top of 100% crits x_x oh well I guess they kind of need it, they hit super slow. Honestly I think that with trash funding I out DPS'd my DS which had like 300 mil worth of equips... %STR is so pricey lol. But yeah my DS had a full Faf set and I was only hitting 1.2 - 1.3m on bosses... My DA doesn't even have any %Boss. But, then again DS DOES get Blue Blood and that is always nice :]

I guess the lv 11-12 not falling by the hour is a good thing because then that means you can actually craft cubes and whatnot lol. Nah, it's the same in Windia, too. There's only like 2-3 people who sell any ores at all anymore and those things are 100k each. It'll cost a fortune just to get to lv 10, let alone unlearn and start the profession all over again. However, I do have the max number of characters and I was thinking it might be possible to just use every one of them and mine until I max fatigue. I'd probably get a few hundred easily in a day but honestly the harvesting and mining processes in MS is such a pain in the butt I don't think I'm willing to put that much time and effort into crafting haha. I'm considering just getting to lvl 10 and doing the one craft per day thing to max out diligence. It's probably more cost effective and doesn't take that much longer.

Ohh I didn't know Willpower did all that... so I'm guessing it's 10% MaxHP, Def, and Status resist, too? That's really good... however, I am kind of wondering if I want to switch to a Zero. I love the bossing capabilities on my DA but the skills Zero has just... they blow my mind haha. There's less wait time/setup required for it and I think I might enjoy it. But if I can't fund a Zero enough to take on bosses faster or easier than on my DA, I think I'll come right back to my DA.

By the way, when you do HT, during the first two stages when the heads appear from the walls, do you notice that your skills are kind of like... unresponsive? I don't know, I'll try to toggle Slice and Shield in between Exceed hits and they just don't respond and I have to jump around and move before I can use any other skill, and by the time I can use Exceed again the counters have reset and I have to start stacking all over again. That's one of the problems I'm facing with DA, if I spend too much time away from Exceed, it feels like it takes forever to get it to start up again.

Hmm... level 60? Or +60 Willpower EXP? I'm considering just going crazy during the events and just picking up every drop I can find for the trait EXP stuff. Those are like +100 EXP for a trait per pop lol. Just hot key it and get like 1mil exp in a day Other than that I think logging on a character and just leaving it there gives Willpower so I might just AFK on my characters overnight lol.

[quote=hangwithhung]@SlyOne: haha yeah swarm would be so good if it was some 3rd job skill that had some actual use. i think it's pretty cool tho, if it would last longer, too lol.

i don't even get how it works lol. i currently have 70 star forced items (basic items, but they'll carry me to 160+ until i can replace them with Fafs and SW accessories). I can't wait until I can OHKO with Slice. It looks so sick, too. It wasn't until a good time into 4th job that I realized how it was kind of like a whip. I'd love to be able to use it as a main attack and not just a debuff but it really does serve its purpose. When I HT, it hits every head and due to the large hitbox, I think I can hit all 3 at once with Exceed. Then again my screens' always at 800 x 600 so I can't quite see if I'm really hitting the last head

Hm from what I see, it seems to be a mix of both. I'll equip a +10%MaxHP item and my total HP won't go up by 10%, only like by 4 or 5 at a time. But when I use a +MaxHP equip, it doesn't go up by the supposed amount, either.

There was another way to increase dilligence but it relied completely on the server resets. How the guy did it was that he got to max level, and get to [i]just[/i] under level 11. Crafting one more item would get him to lvl 11 and then he'd level up and get a ton of dilligence. He'd then let the level drop back to 10 and restart the next day, cos of the reset... but now that I think of it, there's no reason why he couldn't do that multiple times per day. From what I understand, level 11 and 12 professions don't decrease based on server resets but by hour... I'll get to lvl 10 first. If I did it his way, it'd take 45 or so days to hit lv 100. Doing it the way I described last time would take between 30 and 40 cycles, and you could do those multiple times per day as long as you had enough time to let the fatigue drop back to zero. I'll try out both however, it does require a ton of opal/silver ores or their purified versions and that takes a looooot of time/monies so I'm not planning to pursue it until a while later.

Can't wait for BTs to come around again. Maybe they'll celebrate the release with some other item or something

Yeah I hear willpower is best increased by just staying logged on but idk how long it would take to get to lv 100 and idek the effect lol. i'll look into it... if this patch would ever download and install on my computer x_x[/quote]

Dude, I'm super late replying with this, my fault. Eventually I check these quotes but since I don't get the time to reply right away thinking they might take long and they end up getting pushed away from my quoted tab lol.

Yeah I don't like how swarm goes right through the monsters too lol, you need to keep control of it while maintaining main attacks. I guess it's something though, maybe they should make it toggable for on/off passing through enemies. Maybe that would just make the class too OP lolol.
Yeah Exceed I think does hit all 3 heads. It's range is pretty good for a 1v1 skill compared to Shadowers who had B-Step. Capping with Nether Slice will definitely take lots of funding though to say the least.

I have been trying to test it out but I will get back to you on that how the max HP thing works. I've had no luck yet so far though.
Level 11 and 12 mastery professions I know don't drop by the hour o.O I've been doing it everyday and I have not noticed it ever falling by the hour o_O.
But yeah the 45 day method thing I recall I believe was one of the fastest ways haha.
Unfortunately those two ores are like non existant in Khaini I mean in shops...

Willpower goes up +4 or something every hour if I recall I know that's one definitive way to get it up but were there any other mentioned methods? Willpower is good for MAX HP and some uhh under 100 magic and weapon defense as well as status resistance which is CRUCIAL for a lot of classes.

So far I'm on my MM for about 12 hours and I have +60 willpower I believe according to "today's willpower".

@SlyOne: haha yeah swarm would be so good if it was some 3rd job skill that had some actual use. i think it's pretty cool tho, if it would last longer, too lol.

i don't even get how it works lol. i currently have 70 star forced items (basic items, but they'll carry me to 160+ until i can replace them with Fafs and SW accessories). I can't wait until I can OHKO with Slice. It looks so sick, too. It wasn't until a good time into 4th job that I realized how it was kind of like a whip. I'd love to be able to use it as a main attack and not just a debuff but it really does serve its purpose. When I HT, it hits every head and due to the large hitbox, I think I can hit all 3 at once with Exceed. Then again my screens' always at 800 x 600 so I can't quite see if I'm really hitting the last head

Hm from what I see, it seems to be a mix of both. I'll equip a +10%MaxHP item and my total HP won't go up by 10%, only like by 4 or 5 at a time. But when I use a +MaxHP equip, it doesn't go up by the supposed amount, either.

There was another way to increase dilligence but it relied completely on the server resets. How the guy did it was that he got to max level, and get to [i]just[/i] under level 11. Crafting one more item would get him to lvl 11 and then he'd level up and get a ton of dilligence. He'd then let the level drop back to 10 and restart the next day, cos of the reset... but now that I think of it, there's no reason why he couldn't do that multiple times per day. From what I understand, level 11 and 12 professions don't decrease based on server resets but by hour... I'll get to lvl 10 first. If I did it his way, it'd take 45 or so days to hit lv 100. Doing it the way I described last time would take between 30 and 40 cycles, and you could do those multiple times per day as long as you had enough time to let the fatigue drop back to zero. I'll try out both however, it does require a ton of opal/silver ores or their purified versions and that takes a looooot of time/monies so I'm not planning to pursue it until a while later.

Can't wait for BTs to come around again. Maybe they'll celebrate the release with some other item or something

Yeah I hear willpower is best increased by just staying logged on but idk how long it would take to get to lv 100 and idek the effect lol. i'll look into it... if this patch would ever download and install on my computer x_x

@hangwithhung: Yeah I was aware it is just for the DPS. Especially if you remember the whole scenario with I/L's Frozen Orb and the outrageous HPS on that. That was when DA's bat swarm was good to use too. That would be a cool idea though.

OHKO with shields will eventually come once you start to take advantage of the starforce thing that DA's have since we don;t have a cap of 40 stars or so as it was discovered. Yes Execution > Slice until 1HKO JUST LOOK AT THAT HORIZONTAL RANGE! (IMO).
Jump attack ftw!

That's okay take your time I was just suggesting the Commerci thing for a lot of good rewards + exp.. I mean it was how I leveled anyways haha. Hyper should be a decent boost. Is it multiplicative or additive though? I mean it goes to base? Have you read anything about that?
OH damn, that's a pretty brilliant idea I haven't thought of that though I know alot of you guys have been doing that. You're absolutely right that is a good idea hahaha. I agree

I think they'll release Beast Tamers this upcoming year very soon. Maybe anniversary, maybe summer. We'll see but I assume soon as in soon soon. Just like world merges yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy!
Honestly the only other way to take advantage of DA's HP gain is getting a lot of mules to 210 like Cannon and Kaiser because of the boost but I mean a lot of don't have that kinda willpower. I mean, I don't at least... haha.

@slyone nah the bats for DA don't heal :[ they just do terribad damage and.. yeah honestly idek why it's even a skill. i'd much prefer it to be a skill like what DS' have, esp cos we burn through our HP pretty quick while bossing while DA's HP bar remains as static as their DF bar x_x

Lol if only I could OHKO with shields, I'd be living the life. Sadly, I'm not. I think Execution is faster and does more damage than Slice anyway so I'll probably be sticking to that
That's good. I feel control would be easier almost, just because jump attack <3

oh is that what it is? hm... i'll have to double check the quest book again haha. i wanna commerci pretty bad and i hear doing the trade boats thing gives decent rewards.

i realy hope it does a good amount still gotta wait til 192 to get the hyper HP tho.

to get to 100 dilgence, basically you just empty all your funds on either steel or opal ores and then you refine them. after that, you just keep crafting basic arrows until you level up to lvl 10, and then you unlearn smithing, start all over, and repeat the process. I think it takes just around 37 full lv 1-10 crafting cycles before u can hit 100 dilgence but yeah, that +10% scroll rate is worth it. i'd rather spend hundreds of M in game, once, and be able to increase every item's success rate than have to buy freaking lucky day scrolls for every slot x_x

yeah , saw that one. well, in any case, it's when something big happens to the class. who knows they might do it again with BTs I'm just working on the resistance ring :] they extended it by like a month or so and I'm going to get another WH to lv 130 pronto then i'll work on BT and hayato haha

@hangwithhung: I agree. They definitely need ot bring it back.

I'm glad to hear you're loving your DA and that's good. Most classes could not even hope to take out low end bosses as fast as a DA can. Consider it a privilege too
Yes Nether Shield hits through cancel attack yes. It'll get that higher though no worries
No one really uses the bats I mean I think it helps heal you but you need to also control it side to side which impacts DPS. It would be great if you could hold onto it while using other skills though.

Nether slice is actually pretty good for SD training I mean it has a long horizontal range but even if you can OHKO with your shields I guess it really depends on what you personally feel. I think OHKO Nether shields are faster though.
Control shouldn't be hard at all to master. You'll get there over time just like everyone who plays their main class! ^^ No worries man! Yes the Gollux prequests and Commerci ones are somewhat similar its just the Commerci ones get unlocked like 1 quest before the collecting part I believe for Gollux of the 50 emerald thingies or 100 of them. I forgot...

The 10% Hyper Health will come in handy though it should give you a good amount. And of course I get what you mean haha.
How do you plan on getting 100 diligence so quickly?

Actually I don't know if you've seen my thread about BT's but also Artasi confirmed they are coming back soon! Like literally "soon" haha. They don't do ring events only for first releases, what about when KoC's and such revamped classes came out?
Goodluck though! Definitely make the Hayato for the crit

@slyOne man I'd so buy the hyper tele and the pendant. sigh... so useful. i wouldn't need to do all the frigging prequests for ToT just to be able to farm lyka coins for spell tracdes.

oh yeah so i found out my clean range is actually around 68k but my buffs are always on and that adds a significant increase to my overall range. but i was doing czak yesterday with just ~110k buffed and with the MPE Red and Green potion and a Gingerbread thing from Winter and I took out Zak within 15 minutes... took me just as long on my FP which had a significantly higher range and I only got seduced once. It's amazing when you block every other status move and then you have HP enough to tank all the mobs that try and hit you... I'm really loving DA :] plus, I think Nether Shield hits through super defense. I can't wait for the boost in Nether Shield's attack :] I can't wait til it does like 1m or more per line <3 I've never considered summoned/extra in bossing but seriously nether shield gives a huuuuge damage boost. It's fun to have to toggle back and forth between it and Exceed even on long arse boss runs I'm beginning to wonder if anyone uses the cloud of bats from 2nd job tho. it only hits one line and slowly, at that. However, having to constantly toggle between 3 things might get a little tricky and i'd need 0 lag and precision keystrokes if I were ever to use Bats, Exceed, Nether shield, and not to mention Nether Slice, as well. I think they need to up the damage on Nether Slice and increase its speed, too, cos I actually wouldn't mind using that as a main attack skill

Yeah, I think Demon Avengers are probably one of the easier classes to maneuver and move around the map with just because there's less to worry about when it comes to getting damaged and taking statuses so I'm pretty sure just a bit of practice would result in a good amount of control.

Are the Commerci prequests the same as the Gollux ones? Cos if so, I'm going to jump right on it asap and I'll definitely get some SW items to merch for some monies.

I can't wait for the 192 hyper for health, too, and i seriously wish it were as good as a free 10% HP boost :[ but there's so much HP each %HP increase just doesn't count for as much anymore. So i think after I've gotten at least a few faf items to collect a bunch of leaves and whatnot during the next Maple event and just scroll up with 15%s. Hopefully I'll have 100 Diligence by then so I can increase the success rate to 25%. And then if I have enough money, I'll 10 star it, though I could see myself burning thru like 3 bil to get that to work. Cheaper than getting 5 star enhances, tho haha.

I... just can't see BTs getting deleted. Like nobody ever deletes a class. However, even GMS said that they'd be working to fix the bugs on BT five or six months ago and that after they did, BTs would be re-released. And BTs have never been seen again. There might be some truth to what JMS players say but, as you said too, if there's no proof I wouldn't bank on it being true just yet. Oh well, they only do ring events after first releases and seeing as BTs already came out, I'm probably not getting any rings anytime soon.

Hmm I'll consider it. Come to think of it my Hero is 168. If another job advance coin comes around I'm definitely switching it back to DrK just for the %HP. It might not be much but every point counts :] And I'll make space for Hayatos :O I want that min crit!

@hangwithhung: Hahaha, yeah I know what you mean. It does rain equips there Yeah I know I even told them I'd be willing to drop 60$ or 50$ I think lolll.
It would make everyones lives so much easier. Maybe they will if people want to end up quitting or something! o-o

Oh you're right haha. Okay oops my bad.
Oh I actually never realized that. That's even better than and I could have sworn it had a base amount maybe they changed it or included it within some patches ago I guess.
Honestly just practice and train. ALSO do Commerci man, commerci and killing the boss you can wreck it will give you like 10% per run or more or something like that at level 140+. That's what I did at least loll.
Yeah it is but yeah you can get 10 more once you get to 168 for the Hyper Aiming for 100% crit and 100% status resist on mine though.

Yeah it is unfortunate for those who missed out on Beast Tamer. They say they are trying to bring it back but... It looks even more and more daunting as the days go on. I hear they deleted Beast Tamers in JMS? *Which is where it came from, mind you. But it seems like no one has any actual proof they did... o-o Maybe it was just a rumor? Yeah they should though ALSO the ring when it came with beast tamer was a magic attack ring so I guess it could go towards your BaM if they do ever bring it back.

Haha, yeah uhm also Dark Knight Character card if you get to 200 thats 4% HP right there. 3% at level 100. So only worth getting 200 if you're already or almost there lol.
But make a Hayato right now since you still can.
You're right though not only DA's for a lot of classes though. Xenon's are useless to us as of late but really good for every other main you have
That's good though!

@SlyOne: oh even better, utgards and pensalir equips drop at all the bosses and it was raining 140 equips at MPE. ohhh yes HYPER ROCKS i'd pay 30 bucks for a perm hyper rock ughhhh it'd make my life SO easy :[

oh hmm. no, I wish that were true. I think I was speaking in regards to others and wishing that BaMs had more PDR/EDR/MDR.

and wait, you're right, it does give a boost in HP. Just talked to Shammos and Perf Rex' Earrings are the same, only 10% MaxHP. However, it is a part of the Party Quest set which gives like +15% Party Quest EXP overall or something, and that's always nice :] And they look nicer

Ahh it'll be a bit until I can do that, given that my range is a bit far from 140k rn (I'm only at 80k clean, probably 110 buffed) and my control on characters is probably the worst haha. I'll have to watch some other videos to see the best way to do it.

Hmm I only have 2 Cygnus chars so my total Stat Resist is only 67 with buffs (and I think 77 with hypers?) so it's better than going in with nothing :] It's like shadow shifter but for statuses, and with a better guard chance, too.

Holy hell, what? NO! I WANT. UGH. ;JLADFKS;JKLDSF Hayato and BT are the two classes I've never once created. I can't believe the utility I'm missing out on rn :'[ -cries forever- I realy hope they release it and allow for the ring, too.

Oh really? I thought it was just a joke to make the class sound cuter than it was dangerous at mobbing

Yeah, I think I'll do the shade one, too. Man, so many good things I can do for my DA... everything is a source of range or crit increase lolol

[b]edit[/b] turns out I already have the shade.. that's wher I got my min/max crit rates increase from. Kanna's 4% increase on boss. A lv 200 DA will give the same %Boss, plus it'll be part of the warrior set, too.

@hangwithhung: Yeah that's actually not a bad idea at all. What the heck, I'm sure people sell in FM for under 1m a piece haha. Like in Khaini.
All Perm stuff need to be back including their Hyper rocks. I sent a ticket regarding it but they shut me down Lol totally unrelated though haha.
Oh yeah, I know that much about it but you were saying it like BaM's got an update which let them ignore it completely. I think you misunderstood it. The hyper lets you ignore 10% of the Elemental Reset. So you basically deal 60% more damage is it? Rather than 50. BaM's don't get an elemental reset skill like the other mage classes you listed.

I don't mind it rushing I don't really need the rush though. Personally though, it is perfect for me just the horizontal range could use a little more work. And apparently normal rex earrings don't what? I think Perf Rex earrings are 20% or 15% HP while regular are definitely 10%.

Yes you should be able to cakewalk Gollux with 140k Range. Hell even take on Normal. Haha, assuming if you have enough % boss too though. Also your character control is vital to your survival.
Yeah it is 10% I have 10% status resist on my other DA while I have the 10% crit rate on my main DA. I actually like both they both have pros and cons but 10% crit rate is obviously the better choice. Getting 5 Cygnus links to boost your Status resist +25% more is also very helpful.
The resistance 15% crit rings are pretty amazing though, I'm not going to lie. Add Beast tamers 7% boss/critrate/HP/MP at 120 which is EXTREMELY helpful for a DA. You better hope they release them again if you don't already have it!
Yes use your lumi. (PS saying lumi that way will get you banned lulz.)

Shades character card and link skill is pretty good too. Make sure you get Shades 4% min/max crit from the 100 character card.
Also if you have 3 level 100 thieves and the character card set and don't mind sacrificing a lot of things you can also get another 4% max crit from that I believe.

@SlyOne: Oh okie. I think for the time being what I'm going to do is use an Utgard Desparado, the Pensalir Battle Boots and the Battle Cape. Screw Empress equips, they're too expensive and with the basic potentials on each of these items and the set effects, I'll be getting +15% MaxHP anyway, which is what I'm more concerned about until I can get enough money to upgrade to fafs :]

Yesss perma slots need to be back x_x ugh. So nice.
Well almost every character, bossing with lower level/tier equips results in a 50% damage reduction due to PDR and EDR (physical and elemental damage reduction, respectively) the bosses have. With AMs, Evans, and Luminus, they can bypass MDR by resetting the elemental damage so they're just magic and it bypasses all the defenses of the boss :]

Haha yeah, Demon Strike is great. Love its animation. I wish it rushed mobs doe I got my mbooks tho, thanks to potions i stocked up from all the boss runs that I NPC'd :] I'm also working on trying to get the perf rex earrings for the +10%. Apparently normal rex earrings don't... -sadface-

LOL wait are you serious? Idk, I was hoping to take it out as easily as I do Zak or something so... yeah, I guess the more the range, the better

oh okay yeah you're right it's probably 10%. I thikn even with 15%, the critical explorer/resistance/char rings are a bit generous lol.

Hmm I have a kanna for +3 min/max crit Even tho Kanna has like the lowest crit rate for any mage lol. Yeah, I'll be adding a Zero if I get around to deleting a char in time for Zero's rerelease. So far I'm just using my lomi

@hangwithhung: Oh, that's interesting. Thanks for the information. I do know how much Kanna's ranges do inflate though. Yes, it is a good idea to get Fafnir regardless though! Trust me the Terminus Desperado isn't no big of a rush but that's really depending if 10th anniversary attack scrolls would come back and you'd want to take advantage of that or something.

If only perma slots were brought back, the world would be so happy
What's the broken Elemental Reset? free 100% MDR? Sorry I didn't really look into the BaM update but what is it exactly?

Demon Strike does have a short range but its use really makes up for it and it's not that big of an issue like you said, hahah. Yes, thats exactly when you'd use it to get around town with bosses Oh, definitely try to save up for Mastery Books then because you know, it can get rough without them. You should try to max your main priority skills first. That's like all of them sadly but you know, you can find a way to make it work. Yeah I guess you're right about the innate 10% on the CHTP but whatever floats your boat for the time being

Yeah that's good though and I'm glad to hear that. But there are also the other perfect REX earrings if you can get your hands on those... Whew those are nice too!
140k Range for Easy Gollux? Man that's overkill! Do you mean Normal or what? o_O

That's okay thought I'm sure there will be plenty more events where you could get those rings! Also yeah, it is and no the Onyx one is 10% unless they buffed it is what you're saying?

Yes Hayato should be in everyones card set because of its 6% min crit it would give your other characters. It definitely is a huge helping hand to have!
Also Lumi link skill and Zero for even more PDR because DA's have an absurd amount

@SlyOne: sort of? its cast time is a bit faster and it hits 15 mobs at once. given that kishin makes mobs cluster like they're gettin' super friendly with each other, killing 10 mobs at a time is nbd. plus, it's damage is 500% of your range or so (though it's really about 1000%). so my Kanna had 100k range clean, then 320k with all buffs, and then it hit 3m/line.

Hmm I might get a Faf only because it's probably easier to manage, there are less pieces, and it'll give a massive boost in Att and boss damage.

Yeah, like the extra pendant slot. I tried looking for it but it turns out it's like 3k NX for 30 days worth of an extra equip slot and that's just not worth it. I'd rather pay like 9 bucks for a perm, tho. Then I could get 2 sets :] And yeah, BaM's passives are kinda icky compared to all the other mages lol. Including that broken Elemental Reset... man, that's so OP x_x free 100% MDR on bosses lol.

I do rather enjoy Demon Strike, tho I wish its range were longer. It's not bad though :] I feel there might be some use when dodging Gollux's head/jaw whenever he faces whichever side you're on. I mean you'd have to be standing right on top of his head for Demon Strike to be useful but it's pretty fast and it beats having to jump in the air and glide to the other end. Plus you still get to do some nice damage.

Haha yeahhh I was posting a toooon of threads x_x I'm only using these so far until I can get myself enough money to get the other sets. So far, most of these are pretty cheap and so I'm pretty happy about that. I can't even get my mastery books rn LOL. And yeah I saw a lot of %HP Tempest pendants floating around in the FM but tbh I think CHTP will be better. Innate +10%, plus I can just go on a boss run for it :] And then it'll be a part of another set, too, which is aaaalways nice.

Lol it's not too hard as a DA and that's what I really enjoy. I'm sure it'll get more difficult as time goes on but if I can only find some cubes here and there and %HP potentials are running amok in the cubing department, then I think I'm pretty set. Right now the only %HP equips i have are... the PB suit. That's it... Buffed, my range comes just under 100k and I can't wait to get the Rex earrings and CHTP and see how far I get. I hear I can do easy gollux at just around 140k range so I'll be really, really happy with that :]

I made the unfortunate mistake of getting all my Resistance classes to 130 only to give the rings away to chars I don't even play x_x But I hear the Sylph ring is coming back (I think it'l be called the Onyx ring?) so that's +15% right there. I'm only at 40% rn with the Phantom's Link tho so I'm also looking for ways to up the crit rates

Hmm the suggestion about hayato tho, i should probably get on that sometime. I've never even made one before lol so I gotta get on that.

@hangwithhung: Ah, I didn't know that thanks for letting me know! That's actually pretty good though. It's like Demon Slayers DC isn't it? It's just level 150.
CRA shouldn't be too much of a problem if you have at least 200-300m down to spend. Ignoring the pants at least...

Terminus weapons are only obtained through Marvel so you're going to have to smega to ask for one or like hope to find one in FM or wait until like May/June when it comes around again. I'm sure people will get it and sell it cheap for under 300m.

What do you mean by release the 2nd pendant slot? The only way is by paying which is not worth it if you want to do it every month unless it marginally helps a lot and don't have the nx to blow haha.
BaM's can get a bit tricky I assume when increasing their range. I mean at least I've noticed but yeah it could be because of the other passives the other mages seem to get.
At least since you've moved everything you should be sitting above a 50k range on Demon Avenger? That is assuming you're 150+.

Yeah, Demon Strike should be used whenever you want maneuverability. Yeah it's like AM's Arcane Aim, lol.
Yes, why yes it is you should be able to down a lot of low tier bosses super quickly. I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Yeah I saw those threads but from the looks of it it seems like you got a lot of the other non set HP equips down. There wasn't much more to it than what you had and like what the others had mentioned Maybe you could browse FM find some Tempest rings that are epic or something and hope to find %HP cheap. I mean I know I see like 6%HP rings here in Khaini for like 30-50m.

Wow, 125 and 64k range buffed? That's really good! Keep it up! You will hit 1m's much before 100k range only on crits. Think of it is this way, usually its 10x range for non crits. At least that's what I tend to notice. It's not exact but its surely within that marginal area. Make sure you have Hayato's character card for more min crit and try to get critical chance rings too. They help a lot. I'm trying to aim for 100% chance crit on DA right now. So far I'm like near 70 something I think. This is without the level 198 Hyper critical too. I think with everything so far that I have I'm like in the 80's?

But yeah it helps a lot!

@SlyOne: yeahh haha it's great! Blackhearted Curse is basically an uglier version of F/P's 150, the flaming aura thing, whatever it's called. It's pretty decent. You can setup Kishin and just teleport around a map and kill things. The inherent increased drop rate (~20%) and a Greed Pendant and some Big Spiders (that you can farm for on a Kanna) make drops super easy to get.

Man, CRA's going to be difficult to get my hands on, that's my biggest concern. Next up is money. I'm considering a Terminus tho, if I can't get a faf desperado. Where do people get Terminuses, by the way? Or Termini?

Yeah, I'm considering the Gollux sets since the %HP is pretty generous. Right now I'm just shooting for the Boss Accessory equips like the CHTP and whatnot but whenever they release the 2nd pendant slot, I'll be sure to get both sets!

The biggest issue I have with BaMs is how difficult it is to increase their range... normally the equips I gave the BaM would give almost any other mage ~100k range, but my BaM's sitting at only 60k buffed idk what I'm doing wrong. Whatever, I moved everything onto my DA now so there's no going back hahaha.

Oohhh yeah, I wondered why Demon Strike wasn't resetting the counter. I was grinding with it at lower levels since it's practically a faster rush that doesn't push monsters, but given the high %/line, it doesn't quite matter. I'm wondering where I should use it... But yeah, I think that's probably the best way to go about doing it, just spamming Exceed and hitting nothing to keep the counter up Feels like AM's Arcane Aim all over again lol. I'm really excited about being able to boss now. This is literally the least funding I've put into any character and the output is enormous. Despite the low number of lines, the skills hit harder and faster than almost any other class I've played before so there's really nothing to regret :] And yes I love moving around more freely.

In any case, idk if you saw my other threads I posted this morning but I was going on about %HP equips. As of now I'm trying to get my hands on a CHTP, Rex Earrings (for the time being), 5 Boss Accessory Equips (I already have 2 and I only need 3 more) and the Chaos Pink Bean suit and hat that I'm planning to 70% for HP and like. If I get enough money, 10 star LOL. It should give me somewhere to start. Eventually once I get enough funds, I'll get my hands on 3 Emp equips for an additional 15% HP and that should carry me pretty far. I'm only level 125 right now but with 31 random stars sitting on basic equips and Zakum's Poisonic Desparado and no set effects, I get 64k range buffed. I can't wait to hit 100k and start seeing my DA pop out 1m all over the place.

@hangwithhung: Oh yeah, you're right. Oops, I didn't really realize that was what you were talking about. Yeah the metal sound is there, I actually didn't find much of a problem with it anyways so it was just meh, for me.
I thought Kanna's 150 hyper was a buff and not an actual skill?
Haha, yeah it is though. It helps a lot while grinding and makes things easier
CRA does win out late game especially since you can also try to spell trace it in the future or so I guess. But it does also leave more room for sets like Gollux and such. I mean you don't even need a Tyrant belt, just get the Reinforced set that alone would help a lot!
What did you mean by low tier pots? I didn't quite understand what that meant.

Don't be scared to try Gollux, honestly you will be fine especially if you've done it before! It will be really easy! As for BaM's actually I think they would have a much harder time than a DA tbh. Their skill which protects them from %HP attacks is nice though. BaM's seem like they take a little more effort and work to fund if you really want that damage haha.

As for the DA's and the bossing thing, you can still keep up Exceed Executions counter by just attacking the air or nothing before the 8 second timer or so begins to run out. It will refresh it and you can keep it. Also another change was made just this recent patch which changed Exceed Demon Strike from resetting the counter when you attack with Exceed Execution. Now you can use Demon Strike without having to worry about Execution needing to be reset back to 5 hits. It lets you move more freely at bosses and is more forgiving. So that can answer your question regarding dojo and stuff.
Yeah the recipes are dropped often too though I noticed. I don't use them personally though!

@SlyOne: ohh for exceed, i meant once you get the counter up to 5. cos i think it's after the fifth cast that screen goes black and purple and suddenly you start shooting big purple flames. Btw, the sound with the animation didn't really fit for me ._. first time i've ever turned on the sound while playing DA and I expected a whipping/burning sound, not a metal one lol. oh well.

Yeah, I'm with you on Kannas. It's kind of a pain to train unless your damage is high enough to just sit at a map, kishin, and let the 150 hyper do its auto attack and one shot everything. They're in desperate need of an actual mobbing skill...

yessss discussionssss ;jladsfk. i loev themm.

that's actually a really generous hyper. 8 second cooldown rivals that of the dark knight's potato blast hyper haha. i think i saw someone use it the other time. it looks so bootifur.

yeah i'm still juggling between the %boss bonus on cra and the %HP bonus on emp but i'm pretty sure CRA wins out just because of damage and, well, I need less items, which leaves more room to get further upgrades and whatnot. I guess i'll be cubing everything with cube drops from bosses... tho they gotta start dropping that stuff more often cos i've only gotten like 3-4. but yeah even low tier pots can give a good boost in range :]

oh wow... I'm too scared to try gollux LOL. I was seriously considering DA and BaM because their attack speeds are fast and they can dodge well enough. And from what you said, it seems that DAs need minimal funds to dish out damage at Gollux. Now here's the big question: because Exceed needs 5 hits to build up and spam, how do DAs fare at bosses that move around constantly and don't allow you to spam hits? And what about places at Dojo where you'll probably end up having all your Exceed buff disappear by the time you're at the next map?

Ranmaru recipes seems easy to obtain, idk about crafting tho. I get 3 recipes every time I go in so I'm bound to get the armor and weps, but have yet to look into set effects and whatnot. I'm looking into it now :]

[quote=hangwithhung]@SlyOne: mm DS were solid but and their skills were so diverse. However, it felt... kind of like dispersed? Like their bossing abilities were over here on one end and their mobbing capabilities were somewhere over there. And they would overlap and occasionally help each other out but it was like a [i]big[/i] kind of character? I don't know, it was so good at mobbing but for bossing it felt like it was just a tad slow. And yeah, I had, I think, around 80% boss damage and I would be doing roughly 1.2-1.3m per line on bosses. But, again, it was slow-ish

yeah, MMs are nice and I'm with you on that one. I just don't know what to do with mine and it kind of caps out at 155 with cooldown cutter in terms of potential. The rest of the time it's just about funding up the class. I'm more interested in a class whose damage comes moreso from the skills itself than the funding I'd have to pour into it because... I'm broke lol.

YESS when Exceed has hit 5 counts, it's soooo fast it feels amaaaazing -drools- so so so so good. I saw a Terminus Desperado that was like +5'd all the way with 10 stars but I'm not sure if it's worth getting just yet. Especially as I want to make money through bossing, I was kind of hoping DAs could be easy to fund up and easy to boss with, making funding far, far easier.

I'm really looking to Gollux and whatnot in the future and I was hoping that DA would be able to move around quickly and dish out good damage while tanking/dodging hits. I know for MMs, with the upcoming buff they have, they can just stand forever away and fire off Snipe like there's no tomorrow and slam bosses harder than ever. I don't know, I guess I'll alternate between MM and DA if I choose to stick with DA. So far, my Kanna's doing a ton of damage but it's just so slow when it comes to dodging and starting up its skills and whatnot, it makes intense bossing situations very, very difficult.

I guess you're right about the Mercedes card but I mean. Server lag. Lol. Makes the -4 seconds kind of obsolete

And yes you've been so helpful in helping me consider some classes. Most people never want to write walls of text and expand on their opinions but that's where I feel discussions are most interesting and it gives a good idea of classes.

I haven't actually read up on the 170 hyper yet. I thought it was just another ultimate or something.

As for the armor, I just need something that can give me the best damage boost without having to burn too many meso. Until another set comes along, I'm probably not going to turn to fafnir, given that desparados are so hard to come by and the rest of the set is beyond my budget right now I was thinking of maybe soloing Ranmaru and just picking up the recipes and crafting the items. He drops quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised if I could craft the entire set within a few days. I know they're not the best equips but it'll give me something I can scroll, upgrade, and cube myself. And I guess the biggest question is whether or not a set effect is really necessary. I'm still not too sure if it's easier to go for %dmg on sets or %HP on potentials...[/quote]

That's also what I liked about DS's skills they have a variety a playset of skills to use differently which kept the gameplay fresh. Of course that's not the case when you want to grind for the best %/hr or something but also that bossing issue was also always able to be taken care of with potion pot just to spam DI.
Again also not to put down Demon Slayers in anyway because they are just as awesome but I think DA was developed for a more 1v1 type of use in comparison to Demon Slayers. I mean DA's were meant to be the main damage class from the Demon branch.

For the Marksman thing that's totally understandable I understand where you're coming from haha. Then it's a good idea you picked Marksman and Demon Avenger as both of those classes have like the highest damage percentages with not much funding. Also Marksman's Vital Hunter skill makes everything better for PDR however it could be an issue if you're too close and personal with the boss.

Exceed actually has the 4 counts when its activated haha. Yeah it is amazing for sure especially if you can reach cap or break speed it's just crazy. If you had the money to buy it then yes I would say go for it but it's also not too expensive to just make your own depends on how much it was. That's true if you need to make money then sure try everything you can to and actually I can tell you that I have another Demon Avenger which I did Gollux with. I think even with less than 100k range I could do Gollux at level 143 or something like that. I did die but once you get the control down and you play safe you'll be just fine. Though Gollux ignores your HP and has %HP attacks I know this is frustrating enough to deal with but that's just how it is NOT as a Paladin who can ignore some of it MM is a good choice too though. Don't get me wrong but I just threw on some Empress gear on mine but I have a Legendaried Empress xBow with boss attack it's still not the best or fastest I would hope for but it gets the job done. Also because Gollux cuts our damage in half I guess so yeah.

Kanna's I can't say much of because I've only played for the link skill but they could definitely use some revamp though along with Hayato's and Mihiles. That's for sure.
Yeah though there is server lag it's not really that bad though. If you time it you can see for yourself that it does help though.
I'm glad I could help though and I concur. Discussions and explanations with opinions can really help open others minds to what's good and what they can pick associated to what they're looking for!

For the Hyper it's just another Ultimate but it's 8 seconds cooldown and 15 targets hit, what's not to love? Also a Demon like skill. Awwyeasss. For the armor then I think RA set would be better than the Empress. Empress would only give you 30% boss which could IMO be replaced with the Warrior CRA which is already sort of cheap enough. Depending on your server and prices what are they like in Windia which they seem to be pretty darn cheap except for the pants. The weapon shouldn't be too much though. That's already a boost of 20 more attack than the Empress but I'm also forgetting I think Empress comes with 30% HP? If you have everything? CRA is only 10%. The 30% Boss from CRA could help though. That's 60% alone.
It's really up to you but actually Empress wouldn't be such a bad idea if you can grab a hold of all of 'em. ALSO PS when I did Gollux on my other DA he had Empress gear so yeah.

If you're going to cube and do stuff like that just buy the RA armor and work on doing that stuff WHILE holding onto your Empress and using it and such. Like others do they try to finish and cube their RA gear then equip it! But the Ranmaru thing would be a good idea I haven't done it personally but is it hard to make? Also if you're going to go for the cheapest option then get the Empress. They recently buffed it as well some patches ago. So yeah

both are awesome
go make one of each
embrace the darkness

@SlyOne: mm DS were solid but and their skills were so diverse. However, it felt... kind of like dispersed? Like their bossing abilities were over here on one end and their mobbing capabilities were somewhere over there. And they would overlap and occasionally help each other out but it was like a [i]big[/i] kind of character? I don't know, it was so good at mobbing but for bossing it felt like it was just a tad slow. And yeah, I had, I think, around 80% boss damage and I would be doing roughly 1.2-1.3m per line on bosses. But, again, it was slow-ish

yeah, MMs are nice and I'm with you on that one. I just don't know what to do with mine and it kind of caps out at 155 with cooldown cutter in terms of potential. The rest of the time it's just about funding up the class. I'm more interested in a class whose damage comes moreso from the skills itself than the funding I'd have to pour into it because... I'm broke lol.

YESS when Exceed has hit 5 counts, it's soooo fast it feels amaaaazing -drools- so so so so good. I saw a Terminus Desperado that was like +5'd all the way with 10 stars but I'm not sure if it's worth getting just yet. Especially as I want to make money through bossing, I was kind of hoping DAs could be easy to fund up and easy to boss with, making funding far, far easier.

I'm really looking to Gollux and whatnot in the future and I was hoping that DA would be able to move around quickly and dish out good damage while tanking/dodging hits. I know for MMs, with the upcoming buff they have, they can just stand forever away and fire off Snipe like there's no tomorrow and slam bosses harder than ever. I don't know, I guess I'll alternate between MM and DA if I choose to stick with DA. So far, my Kanna's doing a ton of damage but it's just so slow when it comes to dodging and starting up its skills and whatnot, it makes intense bossing situations very, very difficult.

I guess you're right about the Mercedes card but I mean. Server lag. Lol. Makes the -4 seconds kind of obsolete

And yes you've been so helpful in helping me consider some classes. Most people never want to write walls of text and expand on their opinions but that's where I feel discussions are most interesting and it gives a good idea of classes.

I haven't actually read up on the 170 hyper yet. I thought it was just another ultimate or something.

As for the armor, I just need something that can give me the best damage boost without having to burn too many meso. Until another set comes along, I'm probably not going to turn to fafnir, given that desparados are so hard to come by and the rest of the set is beyond my budget right now I was thinking of maybe soloing Ranmaru and just picking up the recipes and crafting the items. He drops quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised if I could craft the entire set within a few days. I know they're not the best equips but it'll give me something I can scroll, upgrade, and cube myself. And I guess the biggest question is whether or not a set effect is really necessary. I'm still not too sure if it's easier to go for %dmg on sets or %HP on potentials...

@hangwithhung: I agree with you. However I think they could use a little brushup to better alternate their skills. I think that would eventually get too stale for me on my behalf.

That's not to say DS's are bad though. They are a very well rounded class with tons of utility and perks especially when funded to the maximum. They have great potential. Was this 1m per line you were hitting?
Yeah Marksman can hit like a truck especially with low funds I understand you there But I got bored of mine after I got to 200 I don't know if it was lack of motivation or I just got bored, ehh.
Right now I alternate between DA and Mechanic.
DA is definitely a good choice especially for the low tier bosses it could help you make some decent money too with cubes and all but that's if they are even tradeable.
Nether Shields is definitely an awesome skill and its great for bossing and it looks like a mashup of both haha.
Yeah, uhh, Exceed is like 430ms or something like near 500 (with booster I believe) compared to DS's DI. You can really tell the speed difference. ALSO if you plan to go into late game and grinding I think you should get Terminus Desperado over the Fafnir but if you want to do bossing then by all means stick with your Fafnir weapon for the boss.
To be honest you don't really even need the pet. Your range doesn't even fall at like under 70% HP anymore but rather 50%. With Overload Release that should make things even easier as well but I understand why you might want the auto HP. It comes in handy and I like to keep mine full too!
Don't get me wrong you don't want to underestimate the power of the Mercedes card. Especially late game where all those seconds count. It's a whole lot of extra DPS. Unless we have some better cards coming in the future don't opt to switch out Mercedes.
Yes 10x is approximately right and it could be higher with crit rings and such. I mean max and min crits too!

Haha, I'm really glad to hear that and to know that I had influenced your decision helps make me feel good to help! Thank you! But definitely yeah, DA is the best option so far for you if its Kanna, DA, DS and Marksman.

170 Hyper is beastmode. Depends how late game you really wanna go though. The armor stuff, like do you plan on making it the best? I mean if you can afford it then get the CRA + some decently scrolled Fafnir temporarily O:

@SlyOne: haha yeah no worries, the part about mihile was just something I wanted to get off my chest. I think the playstyle has good potential to become a better class as it really is simpler than most classes nowadays and it leaves a lot of room for fun :]

yeah DSs just weren't hitting hard enough. I loved them, and I didn't pour a ton of funding into it (not correctly, at least) and I feel I could be doing more than 7m, or 14m w/ BB, on bosses. My completely unfunded Marksman consistently hits ~13ms on bosses with 50% PDR and though I'm a far way away from the 400m cap (soon to be 500m I think), it just doesn't feel that I have much room to improve sitting on zero funds I've decided that the best way to get funds was to use a character which can boss decently and it's really not as on-my-toes bossing with a DA, given that I'm really only occasionally toggling Nether Shields (which really looks more like a sword than a shield, but whatever).

So yeah I hopped back on DA last night out of sheer boredom and I realized that the 4th job Exceed attack (I forget its name) is RIDICULOUSLY fast. Like if I can jump and attack at the same time and fly around, it's fast as heck for me. DS' Impact got a boost but it was never as fast and I'm really looking forward to DA again. The only thing that turned me away from DA initially was how fast the HP drained but with a pet to up my HP every time it falls, I don't think I'll be struggling much anymore :] I can keep focusing on attacking fast and never having to move away from Exceed except to activate Nether Shield which actually does a good, good amount of damage. I have the -4% Cooldown with the Merc's card but I'm really not sure how much use it'll be, given that... well, 4% of 6 seconds doesn't do much but I'll be able to deal some really good damage with Exceed. It seems that most people are getting roughly 10x their range per line of Exceed so 40x dmg total isn't bad

But yeah I'm just kind of weighing out the goods and the bads of every class and I'm trying to see what char will be easiest to boss end-games bosses with. So far, DA is probably one of the classes on top of the list and I would never have gone back to it if it hadn't been for your suggestion :]

@LordAnubiS: it does! that sounds pretty awesome. I can't wait to hit 170 :] Also, what should I be scrolling for on my weapons, armor, and accessories? And should I be looking to get a CRA/faf set or is anything with %HP good enough?

[quote=hangwithhung]@LordAnubiS how much can u hit per line with a 150k range?[/quote]
well with 150k i used to hit almost 2m per crit hit, then with the star force update for DAs and with a few upgrades and reach lvl 170 with ephinea's soul buff i got over 250k range and now i hit 3m-3.5m per crit hit on bosses without damage reduction(with 47% boss dmg) if that answer ur question

[quote=hangwithhung]@SlyOne: I sincerely, sincerely hope that Mihiles get a smoother gameplay when it comes to 1v1. Maybe they should just integrate Roiling Soul with FPA and give FPA the +40% because nobody uses FPA to do anything but 1v1 and RS is just redundant at that point. Plus, Mihiles are probably as hard to fund as Hayatos when it comes upping 1v1 damage. Maybe they should increase both damage and lines.

I think DAs might be better at mobbing late game though. Even if Demon Impact has a lot of lines and crits, it still only hits 4 mobs. Maybe 6 if it has Spread for DI. But it takes a while to get there (probably lv. 180 or 190 hyper) and unless you're super funded, the other mobbing skills won't do much at that point. DI for me hits 700k per line (and THEN you get to status a monster and do some more) while Infernal Concussion is a tad slower and only hits 400-600k per line. Demon Cry is no longer viable with such a long delay and it only hits around 2/3 of what Infernal Concussion does. I really only other mob skills if I have Unlimited Fury as well as Blue Blood on because otherwise, the other skills just aren't efficient. Meanwhile, DA can sit and spam 4 heavy lines with Execution and the skill itself hits more monsters. I guess it's somewhat of a trade-off but I still feel that unless you're grinding at ToT or at Kiritas, DAs are probably far more efficient at taking down mobs.

But the 1v1 on DS isn't exactly that slow; 1200ms delay with +3 (+2 from booster and a +1 attack speed skill) is immensely useful. Plus, at optimal conditions you still get Blue Blood to double lines and at that point I think a DS might hit more lines than Kaiser does. The only other thing we get to have to help do more damage would probably be Dark Meta's damage but it's minimal and I generally don't see it as being something to rely on...

I see what you're saying about DAs with bossing though. Those extra lines are no joke and they seem to do really high damage for a summon-based attack and with the frequency with which you it, I don't think it's overlook the skill at all. And with good control, constant +4 hits/second than DS at BB is a godly... I have a lv 120 DA lying around so I guess I'll go try it out in a bit :] See if I can't take down Hilla or Zak

@LordAnubiS how much can u hit per line with a 150k range?[/quote]

Eep my bad, guess I didn't see your post but yeah no worries and haha yeah I know what you're saying about Mihiles because I am looking for a better update for them no less myself. FPA definitely could use a crit rate buff like post RED Paladin's blast with charge while they do have righteous indagneous it also doesn't seem to favor well for them late game regardless. More crit rate and lines are always welcome totally understand what you were saying with DA's having really good mobbing though. You're right about that and honestly it could be in favor for DS's but it's also always situational depending on region or map like you said.
I honestly thought DS's could completely ignore DR with all their skills with the dark meta the first time I played them lol boy was I wrong when I ran into Hilla.

As for the cooldown reduction thing, unfortunately no. Unless you wanna cube for cooldown reduction. That's another story. The only other option would be IA cooldown ignore at some%. You could potentially ignore the cooldown and spam away.
So you left DS?:o

@slyone: another quesiton, really fast. i know this is kind of necro posting but aside from the merc card (which is -4 sec i think? or was it -15% cooldown time) how else do i cut CD time?

Thanks!

DS is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better. My buddy is a DS and we have nearly identical stats (range, pdr and boss) and his dojo time is a minute and a half faster than mine. even with me hitting solid caps

DA at high funds is severly limited by damage cap because you dont even need 2m range to hit it

DS just got a relly nice buff on dark meta and blue blood is amazing+ their seal is better. Stick with DS and you wont regret it

@Computer119: yushhh it sosososo gorgeous

[quote=hangwithhung]@SlyOne: ahh no i get what u mean haha. I don't know... I guess I'll have to see how it plays. I have a 4th job DA sitting around somewhere but it's been so long.
TBH I have no idea what I really do or don't have in terms of %MaxHP. I usually just throw out all those equips. I know for a fact I have lots of character cards but that's probbaly only about 5% HP. Uhm... Cannoneer's Link Skill gives +5%, right? I have a Kaiser's link too, so that's another 10%. Yeah, u know, this isn't looking all that great for me LOL

I was just kind of testing the waters to see how much I'll need to use if I wanted to do a good amount.

I do have a Mihile link! It was really only good for my AMs though, cos of Buff Mastery. I was thinking it might be possible to just stand on top in the middle of the map and spam Snipe. It should be a 2-shot if I can manage to knock off 12m+/line, but there's a lot of variability with Range Finding and all. Hmm... well, idk, after a while pushing all the mobs back with Dragon Breath and then using Pierce down the line is bound to do a ton of damage.

Oh yeah I was actually stuck between DS and Mihile for a looooong time before I settled on DS. I think Mihiles are better flat-platform mobbers, though. However, DS' now get to use Infernal Concussion more efficiently soooo that's actually not too bad. The patch kept crashing so I didn't get a chance to see how IC would pan out but so far it's not too bad. It's still got its 100% crit rate and it hits like 6 times or so. Anyway, I loved Mihile because I could just sit and spam. It had a good number of lines and everything.

My main concern with Mihile was that its damage output would be lower than a Demon Slayer, esp with innate +40% boss damage on DS' DI and 100% crit rate. That and Mihile's bossing capabilities kind of fell by the wayside :[ FPA was a great idea but it's range is too short and its damage is too low. At some point it might be more beneficial to just use Roiling Soul with Radiant Blast haha. Hands down tho, Mihile and DS are probably my top pics for the most aesthetically pleasing classes <3[/quote]

Mihile is very much aesthetically pleasing, Radiant Blast looks beautiful

@SlyOne: I sincerely, sincerely hope that Mihiles get a smoother gameplay when it comes to 1v1. Maybe they should just integrate Roiling Soul with FPA and give FPA the +40% because nobody uses FPA to do anything but 1v1 and RS is just redundant at that point. Plus, Mihiles are probably as hard to fund as Hayatos when it comes upping 1v1 damage. Maybe they should increase both damage and lines.

I think DAs might be better at mobbing late game though. Even if Demon Impact has a lot of lines and crits, it still only hits 4 mobs. Maybe 6 if it has Spread for DI. But it takes a while to get there (probably lv. 180 or 190 hyper) and unless you're super funded, the other mobbing skills won't do much at that point. DI for me hits 700k per line (and THEN you get to status a monster and do some more) while Infernal Concussion is a tad slower and only hits 400-600k per line. Demon Cry is no longer viable with such a long delay and it only hits around 2/3 of what Infernal Concussion does. I really only other mob skills if I have Unlimited Fury as well as Blue Blood on because otherwise, the other skills just aren't efficient. Meanwhile, DA can sit and spam 4 heavy lines with Execution and the skill itself hits more monsters. I guess it's somewhat of a trade-off but I still feel that unless you're grinding at ToT or at Kiritas, DAs are probably far more efficient at taking down mobs.

But the 1v1 on DS isn't exactly that slow; 1200ms delay with +3 (+2 from booster and a +1 attack speed skill) is immensely useful. Plus, at optimal conditions you still get Blue Blood to double lines and at that point I think a DS might hit more lines than Kaiser does. The only other thing we get to have to help do more damage would probably be Dark Meta's damage but it's minimal and I generally don't see it as being something to rely on...

I see what you're saying about DAs with bossing though. Those extra lines are no joke and they seem to do really high damage for a summon-based attack and with the frequency with which you it, I don't think it's overlook the skill at all. And with good control, constant +4 hits/second than DS at BB is a godly... I have a lv 120 DA lying around so I guess I'll go try it out in a bit :] See if I can't take down Hilla or Zak

@LordAnubiS how much can u hit per line with a 150k range?

well i have a lvl 200 DS and an level 160+ DA, both are great, havent tried using them after this last update, but DS was one of my favorites class ever, when u are on Blue Blood mode ur damage skyrocket it, u can regain Fury with Cerberus chomp(lvl 170 hyper) and with dark meta's hyper u cant ignore damage reflection and super def.(just like kaiser), since kms speed it up Demon Impact's attack speed they became better bossers.
Then DA is pretty fun and they dish out high amounts of damage with little funding, mine has over 150k range and i didnt invest more than 70-80m mesos(50m in a SW desperado), with ephenias soul buff it goes even higher, i didnt use star force yet bcuz it didnt help before this last update, so ill guess it could go higher if I try a bit, they have bind too and can resist DR with their high hp, havent tried many bosses with my DA so idk how good they can be, but they are both pretty good, both are a most have classes for their great link skills, so u have to get both in the end, anyways is up to you in the end.

@hangwithhung Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I love that chance blind and Righteous Indignation is indeed an awesome skill
Don't worry, maybe a revamp will come through though.

@BladeOfDual While I agree with you 100% that DS are better at mobbing and DA is for those who would rather fund less into their character for best damage optimization I'd have to disagree on the part where you said that DS is better because of their lines. You are forgetting that DS's DI is slower compared to a lot of 1v1 skills nowadays. While they have Blue Blood activated sure it is a pretty hefty boost for the time you get but DA's still have better DPS with Nether Shields especially ones that can reach unlimited funding of cap. DA's have more DPM than a DS will ever have at this current state of time.

We have Execution (4 lines) and Nether Shields (2 shields 2 hits) and that's a huge bonus right there. Especially if they can be released infinitely with enough cooldown reduction (which is currently impossible). But nonetheless that's not to say a DS capped at maximum funding isn't good. They are very good indeed they are just not as fast as a fully well funded DA. DA's have 4 more hits/a sec than a DS does with Blue Blood.

I've played both classes and in the end I'll always pick my DS or my DA. DS is better at mobbing if you're funded enough to one hit mobs with just your demon cry (and there are ways to still spam it constantly). DS leans more to the side of people who can afford nice gear, and DA is for those who aren't willing to put too much into their class. If you manage to hit cap on either class DS is just simply better because of it's lines. Half the time we have blue blood up so 14 lines, and 7 for when it's down. Whereas DA only hits 5 lines I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). Imo I would say stay with DS just because of how much I like this class.

@SlyOne: hmm that sounds good. idk, i want something that's decent all around and doesn't have to change drastically between mobbing and bossing. I think I'll be looking at DA, Mihile, and MM some more. They're all really good mobbers from what it looks like and their bossing capabilities aren't all that bad. Mihile's 40% chance blind isn't all that bad and it gives +20% dmg and crit, too... plus, the fact that it tanks so well reduces the need to kill bosses as fast and if anything, it's probably pretty close to all the other classes, too. I just wish it had more lines lol

@hangwithhung: Honestly at this point try it out and get to 140 at least so you have all the skills. See if you like it. See if you can stick with it. Haha I know the feeling man, don't worry I don't really bother with links skills much tbh. I get lazy. Cannoneer is 5% at level 70, 10% at 120. Kaiser is 10% 70 and 15% 120.

I find that Dragon Breath doesn't always push the monsters though. At least for me..
Yes Mihile's are one of the best flat-platform mobbers. That infernal concussion change is helpful though and it is a pretty neat skill
Yes Mihiles bossing capabilities are sort of lackluster and need to be polished up but I hope they can adjust them and fix them up soon :L But yeah you're right I feel the same way about a lot of classes like these. I believe they will get their time to shine.

Terms of general 1v1 DA> DS and DS> DA Mobbing.

@SlyOne: ahh no i get what u mean haha. I don't know... I guess I'll have to see how it plays. I have a 4th job DA sitting around somewhere but it's been so long.
TBH I have no idea what I really do or don't have in terms of %MaxHP. I usually just throw out all those equips. I know for a fact I have lots of character cards but that's probbaly only about 5% HP. Uhm... Cannoneer's Link Skill gives +5%, right? I have a Kaiser's link too, so that's another 10%. Yeah, u know, this isn't looking all that great for me LOL

I was just kind of testing the waters to see how much I'll need to use if I wanted to do a good amount.

I do have a Mihile link! It was really only good for my AMs though, cos of Buff Mastery. I was thinking it might be possible to just stand on top in the middle of the map and spam Snipe. It should be a 2-shot if I can manage to knock off 12m+/line, but there's a lot of variability with Range Finding and all. Hmm... well, idk, after a while pushing all the mobs back with Dragon Breath and then using Pierce down the line is bound to do a ton of damage.

Oh yeah I was actually stuck between DS and Mihile for a looooong time before I settled on DS. I think Mihiles are better flat-platform mobbers, though. However, DS' now get to use Infernal Concussion more efficiently soooo that's actually not too bad. The patch kept crashing so I didn't get a chance to see how IC would pan out but so far it's not too bad. It's still got its 100% crit rate and it hits like 6 times or so. Anyway, I loved Mihile because I could just sit and spam. It had a good number of lines and everything.

My main concern with Mihile was that its damage output would be lower than a Demon Slayer, esp with innate +40% boss damage on DS' DI and 100% crit rate. That and Mihile's bossing capabilities kind of fell by the wayside :[ FPA was a great idea but it's range is too short and its damage is too low. At some point it might be more beneficial to just use Roiling Soul with Radiant Blast haha. Hands down tho, Mihile and DS are probably my top pics for the most aesthetically pleasing classes <3

@hangwithhung WAIT! Don't let that throw you off from DA just yet! We only say that because people in general WANT those combinations of skills. DA is a very popular option if you still want to sit down and do nothing but spam LOL. You could do that you know with spamming Execution. Those Nether Shields aren't THAT important if you want to train. But for Bossing it is vital. You can spam Execution(6 monsters hit) all day long you want don't let that stop you! Or better yet if you had a good amount of range you could probably use Nether Slice since it has a pretty nice horizontal range. You could hit 10 monsters with Nether Slice but do take into consideration that it is weaker and the damage % isn't that high to begin with.
Yes Nether Shield is an active skill and no it isn't like Phantom or Wind Archer at all lol.
Yes the playstyle for Demon Avenger can be really simple or really complicated depending how personal you want to get with the boss or wherever you're training. For example;
[url=https://itzdarkvoid.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/kms-tespia-1-2-509-dpm-chart/] Look at under number 10 and look at 30 [/url]

For a 150k-200k range hmm, I'm not sure how much hits it might take you but it shouldn't take TOO much either. Maybe if you provided with how much %HP you could obtain and a weapon and its stats?

The Nether Shield thing doesn't have to be your cup of tea and that is understandable, but just know it isn't entirely needed for training.

But yes to Marksman too. Marksman has excellent capabilities with keeping their ground as well as great damage reduction through their Agressive Resistance skill.
Yes they can stand around and spam Piercing arrow but know they get knocked around a lot. If you can't stand being without stance you'll need a Mihile Link.

ALSO MIHILES are an amazing choice for SDH too. Their Laser is just too pewpewpewww. Awesomeeee. They are excellent in defense and training capabilities and EXPECT a revamp for them in the future. Also your STR gear could be used, so there's that

@darknesswithin yeahh they both do look pretty sick.

Hey look it's @playthatMelody herself! I watched your videos and now I'm concerned cos it seems you have to handle several skills at once and idk if I'm about that life. Props to you though :] some really pro damage.

@sly0ne so you're saying nether shield is an active skill? Shoo, I thought it was like Phantom's FA with the cards or like Wind Archer's homing arrows. Aww.

Honestly I was looking to DA because it could be rather simple and I guess its playstyle is up to how the player wants it to be. I just wanted to be able to 2-3 hit mobs at SDH, and I was considering Execution spamming all day. I'm just hoping to get a ~150-200k range which... I'm not sure how difficult that will be. I was watching some equip/damage videos and this one DA doubled his attack range with all his buffs. So that seems nice...

About DA's kit though, if a class has a better way to optimize attacks, I'm usually up for it. But the one thing that just kills it for me is cooldown and wait time. I mean at that point, waiting for it to drop back to 0 so I can use it again kind of kills the fun for me and it's just not my cup of tea.

Maybe I should go Marksman... they seem to be able to just stand in one place and spam Piercing Arrow until they run out of MP pots haha

In any case, are there any sets I should try and get as a DA? I mean... I feel like my money might be lost on a cRA set, given that it doesn't do much for HP.

The damage formula divides by 7 instead of 9 now. No AP should be used towards STR. For Starforce, get as many stars as possible.

Edit: Super Ninja'd

Demon Slayer was fun while it lasted, honestly it isn't that bad of a class. It's definitely one of my favorite classes but Demon Avenger I guess was where my heart resided. Overall it was just the kit and everything that came with my Demon Avenger and having this insane amount of HP and being able to chat/ not really pay attention while grinding or having such great utility at bosses which is what took the cake for me.
That was the old formula before. The new formula is [(Current HP/ 7) + STR] * 1.3 * WA. That means you benefit slightly more with some STR. No you aren't suppose to put any AP into STR at all.

I think it is about 400-600k range to 1shot SDH mobs and yes you definitely can kill mobs faster with a DA provided you have the right equips and stats for the job. That's not to say that %HP is a piece of cake to get but you're really going to have to search through those FM rooms if you want to get something. You'll likely have it easier since you are in Windia but do keep that in mind. If you already have good gear and would rather not want to buy new sets you could always recube for %HP but that's all your call.

Demon Slayers have a diverse play style in my opinion. I really enjoyed them and I thought they were a pretty solid class but then Demon Avenger came out I had my sights on him since.

Being able to spam Demon Cry and lock and load your map having that ability was very promising to some. Including the ability to spam Carrion Breath if you were well funded enough. Unfortunately it takes a crap load of funding too if you wanted to be able to do any of those things and with the recent Demon Slayer DC nerf, there's obviously no point to doing that. I mean you have Chaos Lock now which would help move you around the map more and keep your playstyle fresh depending how you look at it but when it comes to bossing I feel like Demon Slayers already have too much boss% damage that it isn't so important for them late game. Demon Impact is pretty fun, honestly having 100% crit is a HUGE plus for a Demon Slayer but even with MPE and +1 attack speed it's just such a fun skill to use and it's one of my favorites but... Demon Avenger always has a place in my heart lol.

-Being able to bind with both classes is a really good thing.
-Both of them have about 60% status resist give or take some hypers here and there. You and I already know this is one of the highest besides Mihile and Kaiser.

Honestly I think if you're more into the training aspect of things you'd better be off with Demon Slayer and having multiple skills but that's not to say Demon Avenger doesn't have it's upsides.
A lot of people are under the impression that with Demon Avengers you only spam your Execution and think that's all there is to it but it's really not. Demon Avengers can have a very unique and diverse playstyle especially at bosses when you rotate around using Execution, Demon Strike(as of the latest patch since it doesn't reset the Execution stacks), Nether Shield every chance it's up (which can have a cooldown lowered with a Mercedes card), and Nether Slice which cuts the bosses DEF by 30% and it works in a party. Basically it's a very useful skill especially when you're partying up with others in late game or like with a Paladin. It'd help a tremendous amount.

Bosses require you to be up and about your feet making you watch over your HP and using your Nether Shields every chance you get. You should be using Nether Slice every 30 seconds for when the debuff runs out and while a boss pops DR you can use your Nether Shields to heal you back up despite them only dealing 1 damage.

You should check out @PlayThatMelody 's video of her SDHing with Nether Shields flying everywhere. If you're into that stuff then congratulations. You've picked a very good class with sustainable survivability everywhere outside of bosses that deal %HP. Even then it's still not that bad because of your kit provided. You basically have everything you need.

I know I forgot more things.. I'll make sure I add it but at this point no you should not also be adding any points into STR. Yes your skills drain HP and yes it might be helpful to have a little bit of HP % recovery lines on some equips but in the end nah. You should be aiming for HP on everything STR is so miniscule it isn't even important to your range until late game I guess where it can provide a very decent minimal boost.

HP>STR in every way possible as a DA.

I've played both and i can't think of any pros & cons in my head right now but imo DA is alot better.
I enjoyed both classes