General

@Samplekitty: whys that, didnt u see the dpm charts? archmages are 2 places above nightlords... with my 20k range im already touching 999k CL and there are mages with 75k range...

@Samplekitty: uhhm yes it would... if i had 400% int like the nightlords who have 400% luk id hit 999k x 5

this is bs. we dont need sympathy we need better players, most people who can properly fund a class dont choose mages because theres so much prejudice about them and stereotypes that they are insufficient attackers. on another note if a archmage actually hits 999k on cl he can use thunder spear which hits 5 times.

[quote=IceBarrage]700 hits per minute o.O?[/quote]

he means 5 monsters i believe

Amen

OT: Even though I'm a bishop and I'm greatly wanted in LHC, I still think that
I/L and F/P should be wanted too.
And mages shouldn't have CD on Ultimates.
Only good thing about bishop is HS and CWKPQ..

[quote=superleaf]What? Are you kidding me? Mages are by far one of the best classes in this game. When you make a class, you have to take all aspects into account before you judge how good the class is. However since the only thing people have been able to see lately are orange and red numbers, allow me to show you what makes a mage so great.

Mages are ranged, have the second best mobility to thieves, a very good tanker due to magic guard and lots of mp, can literally have infinite mp due to mp eater heck bishops don't even need pots, have mob skills that can compare to 1v1 skills, skills that disable enemies, good self buffs are party skills and much more.

I honestly don't understand why there is so much complaining in the mage community. They have exceptional advantages over a lot of other classes, including damage. I read earlier that a mage only needs 100% int and to be lvl 180 to hit the damage cap? Thats insane. My 180 NL friend has 87% luk and he only hits a good 200k on the first 3 hits of TT. Stop complaining[/quote]

They're nerfing mp eater and not wanted for anything. That's the reason we're sad, it does half as much absortion (it needed 25% nerf ot be back to before bb), and only occurs 10% less, 1 per 6 attack, .5 per cl. Thats why I'm sad

@ImKafei: I'ts my 2nd favorite! OoT is my favorite, but sometimes I like MM more...They're both very exceptional. Also, I tried the teleport + CL thing and it WORKED, but it requires more effort (which is ok). Only real flaw is that you have to be up close, but oh well...

Dispel is an ass, but imo, its fun doing dispel bosses than others. Its more exciting if you dont know when you'll die. Of course, the craploads of wheels in my inv kinda kill that too...

@Taichikara they tryin to heighten your self esteem
f555

i say look at curryishot

[quote=Kakeru]At LKC:
Me: Can I join?
Them: Are you a bishop?
Me: No.
Them: No.[/quote]
Dude IKR? People turn a cold shoulder because I'm a I/L :<

[quote=Taichikara]Wow.... I get partied a lot at lhc and hold my own there.
I also get called/asked for when it's time for scar/targa, zakum, cwkpq, and even today I'm going on a czak run again.

And I get asked to do stuff like that from people I don't know. o_O

Maybe it just depends on the circumstances?[/quote]
we're using u for mw30
<3
ILY TOO TADDY F4

i dont think mages are that bad f33
but thanks for sympathy
(yes i have a normal mage that isnt bam/evan)

Magic guard is my best friend and worst enemy. It keeps me alive, and so I'm completely dependent on it.

...I tried czak with my guild once. It's ridiculous, with dispels every second or so and enough damage to wipe out all of my 3.7k hp or so. Is there any way to survive dispelling bosses without HP washing? (Which is kind of expensive for a mage.)

i lub u guys <3

@yaytime: .... ok....

I really think that Nexon should change Magic Gaurd to a toggle skill, like Teleport Mastery. It would be a lot more helpful while facing bosses, who, for some reason, cast dispel every 20-30 seconds.

[quote=darklime]@ImKafei: That too. It's not that I'm lazy, I tried. I guess it didn't work for me..I'll have to try again. P.S. Your name is from Majora's Mask, right?
@Sengarasu: You make perfect sense now. I really think mages should get Mental Stance in 3rd or 4th job. I also think they should get rid of MP eater or make it level 10 and but booster from 3rd job to 2nd job and make that level 10 and give critical magic in 3rd job OR something like increased DoT damage with ice demon/blizzard. I think mages should get the best DoT, cuz isn't that how it usually is in other MMO's?[/quote]

Ya =D
Majora's Mask is my all time favorite Zelda game

But not only did Nexon give the cooldown for our most known mobbing skill *ultimate's* but for I/Ls they just decides that Chain Lighting hitting 6 monsters
was too much so they just decided to make it 3 monsters only lowering our once unique feature of mobbing to another less than impressive feature of a class...

mages need a very good party skill at least or multi attacks on paralize, AR and CL

Haha, I love how the mages are asking for buffs, while the other classes are saying that they're "awesome" and "rival other classes." The truth of the matter is, if you have 1 bil, you can make a decent mage, but you can practically pick any other class and it'll be better.

Years ago, mages were pretty good and could compete side by side with other classes. Now with all the reductions and limitations, mages can hardly compete with other classes. I know that mages are supposed to be good at mobbing, but almost all other classes (if not all) have great mobbing attacks as well. Please do not attack me saying ____ class has horrible mobbing attacks. There's probably one class out that that has sub-par mobbing attacks, but they most likely have great soloing attacks.

My point is that most classes have mobbing attacks, so the potential of a mage's mobbing attacks are basically smothered up. It would be nice if we could either receive a buff for ALL magician classes, or a nice soloing attack.

@grimangle: You realize there's plenty of variables you haven't mentioned right? Is your friend Lukless? If so that makes a significant difference right there. How about you? Are you Dexless? Hopefully so considering Dex for Warriors is a moot point after BB. You also realize that Paralyze is perhaps the worst possible attack for sake of comparison? Just how much SP do they have in it? I could go on all day, but I think you see my point. In any case, there are more classes than Paladin and F/P Mage, now isn't there? I'm saying that if you compare each class to each other...mages in general have moved many rungs up the DPS ladder. Changes like adding a DoT effect to Ultimates, Crits to most of a Priest/Bishop's few offensive abilities, and again, the ability to do damage by TELEPORTING assist with that. I never said it was in any way "perfect," but I do say that it's a vast improvement and I'm sick of people giving mages a bad rap just because it's "cool" to do so.

[quote=Sengarasu]All the crap nexon does to mages will not deter me from making an i/l. I have waited forever for them to pu tmages on par, and they simply will not do so, seems like it... Instead of nerfing the damn wands, they should have raised the bonus to 45-50%. either that, or raise their spell %s. and @iCodykins, yeah, they SHOULD make mg undispellable, or something. Either that, or make a new skill that acts as a buff dummy, like....

Negation barrier*
Max level 5
Protects all active buffs from being cancelled or negated, does not apply to potion effects.

Level 1,protects from debuff once,3min cooldown(gains 1 extra protect each level of mastery)

This skill could be the mage version of combo counter, and have maybe runes or something rotare in orbit around your mage.EAch time a dispel is attempted, a rune could disappear until they run out, which then the buff is over.(combo counter isnt orbit, its more like a wheel.)

Thats all i have to say. I love mages to death, but there is no reason that every class can survive pap past a certain level, yet mages die after a single dispel.[/quote]

This gets my vote.

@ImKafei: That too. It's not that I'm lazy, I tried. I guess it didn't work for me..I'll have to try again. P.S. Your name is from Majora's Mask, right?
@Sengarasu: You make perfect sense now. I really think mages should get Mental Stance in 3rd or 4th job. I also think they should get rid of MP eater or make it level 10 and but booster from 3rd job to 2nd job and make that level 10 and give critical magic in 3rd job OR something like increased DoT damage with ice demon/blizzard. I think mages should get the best DoT, cuz isn't that how it usually is in other MMO's?

[quote=RyanFirefist]i do 200k. and lol?[/quote]

OMG U ON BASIL?

[quote=grimangle]this is when you're wrong. I have a lv175 fp mage friend who has like a 220matk staff and other godly stuff. I am a lv135 paladin.

He does 300k per paralyze, where i do 100-120k each on blast (around 300k's total)

yes, where is the balance in that?[/quote]
i do 200k. and lol?

The only way to effectively get something done about mages is to find people in Korea and have them Complain to KMS workers since they are the only people that actually make new things, GMS and other servers only tag off of KMS...

Tbh, mages have really died now due to the imbalance between them and other classes. Like in Yellonde, I never see a A/M or bishop(that isn't a hs mule) at all. Bishops have like no place anymore, just being slaves is all their good for to the other classes. They really should buff them up because its sad to see a once abundant class diminish to scarce groups of mages. I would really prefer magic guard to be un-dispellable, that like really limits us to high level bosses.IMO for bishops, Bishops angel ray should be more like strafe or a nerfed hurricane. I think that'd put them up there in damage a little bit. Atleast make them worth something again, even my friends only add me to parties for hs, but some recognize that I do decent damage and take me because of it.

[quote=superleaf]@healinggirl2: Yes, slower but it also hits more than 1 target and you can link it with tele which also hits more than 1 target and deals about the same dmg.

@arsarcanum2: Most higher mages can cope with a bosses predicable dispelling and is not that much of problem for them. Mages get the advantage of being able to go to higher up bosses at a lower level because of this. If a mage truly has problems surviving a boss because magic guard gets dispelled, they just need more experience. Yes, all classes have mobbing skills and ranged classes have ranged attacks but mages have both and high mobility to boot. A mage will tear through a mob much faster than most any other class. Yes I know TT hits 3 times and 6 with sp but its a single target skill. CL, paralyze, ray, bb and both demons as well as summons all hit 3+ with very little difference in damage provided there is subsequent funding.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the demons, summons paralyze and chain lightning look pretty beast. CL probably looks the worst but thats besides the point.

The thing is, mages want everything. Mages want to be good at bossing, mobbing, doing good damage, good buffs and a good soloer when that would just be unfair in itself. Mages have enough aspects as it is yet they can't see it because the only thing they care about is outdamaging or doing equal damage to their party members. Mages nowadays need to stop being so greedy and learn how to utilize what they were given properly instead of thinking that they are the worst classes in the game.[/quote]

What an idiot!~! HOW do mages want everything? tell me that? "bossing, mobbing, doing good damage, good buffs and a good soloer" mages arent good at bossing. we dont do good damage either. Good party buffs? that is not for our benefit. its for yours. Coming from a selfish class like yours that has NO PARTY SKILLS, YOU are the one that is selfish.!...being a good soloer, doing good damage, and bossing is the same thing, idiot. the only thing we have is mobbing, and even then, our skills that allow us to mob has a cooldown of 30seconds. such a f***ing idiot! you, sir, have obviously never played a magician before.

[quote=ShiningFrost]I don't know, personally I think that since Big Bang, we're nowhere near as terrible as people tend to think we are. Not only can we do decent amounts of damage, we can do some of that damage by simply teleporting. And where elemental resistance was a problem, we have a skill that allows us to go non-elemental. And we can make our own buffs last 50% longer than normal...Oh and my favorite, we have a buff that gives us unlimited mana, heals our HP AND adds both Atk and Def for up to nearly a minute. Mages have pretty much become toolbox characters and I'm perfectly okay with that.

Do you want to know what the REAL problem with mages are? Nexon has it in their heads that every boss monster past lvl 80 needs to have both Dispel and high Magic Defense, with no way for a mage to counter against either save for sharp eyes and quick reflexes. THAT'S the true problem, damage wise now Mages not only compare to the other classes, but beat many of them out as well.

I swear, people think just because our ultimates were given cooldowns that mages suddenly suck. They were called Ultimates for a reason people.

/end rant[/quote]

this is when you're wrong. I have a lv175 fp mage friend who has like a 220matk staff and other godly stuff. I am a lv135 paladin.

He does 300k per paralyze, where i do 100-120k each on blast (around 300k's total)

yes, where is the balance in that?

[quote=1funnyman]I would actually rather have a bishop then another attacker at for example LHC and there is going to be some bosses where we actually do need bishops because of pot cool down so I think they're going to be wanted plus why would we kick them after just one buff? We're going to need it again when the buff runs out lmao o.o[/quote]

i dont know why they would kick me, they just do. they can use mechs for healing, and plus, mechs do 10x the damage of bishops. you would rather have a bishop, but most people dont. if you actually like having bishops in your party, make a character in bera and buddy me, because i dont know anyone else that does.

@darklime: Yeah dude, i just thought up the barrier as a new skill that would not only protect your magic guard, but all your other buffs too. You know how a warriors "stance" is physical based, in the way that they cannot be physically knocked back from their battle position. well, for mages, this is a mental stance. Instead of having physical fortitude that they obviously are not blessed with, they could have a mental stance that would allow them to keep all active buffs. I mean think about it. What is the point of buff mastery when they will be dispelled long before the buffs reach the halfway mark? See my reasoning?

They may not be at the top of the DMP charts, but I love having an I/L Arch Mage in my Castle Lionheart party. Chain Lightning is really nice to get the mobs knocked back before I'm close enough to start attacking. I also loved partying with F/P Mages when sharing a map because people don't mess with a Poison Mist covered map, hahahaha.

I gotta hand it to the remaining Mages out there, they're doing a fine job. Keep up the good work!

Its not that bad for me....
Well until 3/11/11... D:

Whatchu talking about? Its fair. =P

I'd rather have new, well thought out skills on my F.P. than just upping the numbers. That is boring and lame.

Fire Demon, Mana Reflector, & Ifrit are all abysmal and crap azz skills.
All we do is spam 1 move (Paralyze) to train.

What I think to do to "balance" this game is.
1. Fix the exp. ratio back to 60%/40% or make it 50%/50% because it sucks for bishops.
2. Nerf the over-powered classes to the point where they are lightly different from adventurers.
3. Raise the DPS or DoT of under-powered classes (specifically mages)
OR
3. Give compensation for the under-powered classes, such as: Critical damage, faster attacking speed, damage over time, or new skills to balace, etc.

Who agrees with me? I'm trying to fix all classes, not just mages and neither am I trying to make mages OPed.

[quote=darklime]
Also, you can't really use CL and tele mastery at the same time efficiently; it just makes your CL slower cuz you have to use two moves. If you could use both at the same time without slowing down our main attack, then it would just be ok.[/quote]

If you are frame perfect, you can Tele up and CL at the same time and it won't lower your DPM. It's just that Maplers are lazy noobs who only know how to press one button at a time and have 0 tech skill.

The only downside to that is that you have to get up and real close to the boss which can be annoying with the constant knock backs.

im an nx funded lvl 78 lukless priest with my highest damage at 6.8k with crit. at jesters, and lowest at 3k ~avg. being about 3.5k [using shining ray(with tele mastery i do 2k)], and at GSPQ, i do <1k with any elemental skills, and 2k with non-elemental. i have ~450 INT with equips(i have no%int equips), and my att range is 3xx-14xx.

... priests arent wanted anywhere..... people would rather have an extra attacker than to have a priest.....in balrog pq's we arent wanted because of zombify... the exp earned for a party is divided according to who dealt the most damage.(nexon should divide the exp by.... giving 99% of it to healers) They dont account for our healing and our buffs. i HATE dual blades because of this. they are so selfish. they do not have ANY party skills, and their damage is messed up. i have never used mg before, (mp:hp is on a 1:1 ratio, whereas, heal is a 24mp:2000hp ratio.) i just have lots of +maxhp equips(about +500), and look for spearmen/dragon knights in my party, but i realise it must be annoying to have to rely on mg, a skill that gets dispelled by boss monsters. mages do less damage than any other jobs ive seen, and even when fighting monsters with elemental weakness, their damage cannot compare to other jobs. Nexon should make 99% of all the monsters weapon attack resistant, to make things fair. our ultimates do less damage, cost more mp, and have longer cooldowns than battle mages and evans.

TS: dont lie. bishops are not wanted anywhere. ive seen many other posts and stuff, and no one wants bishops in their party. people just invite them into their party, get them to use door/buffs, then kick them and get another attacker.

@Taichikara: I'm not mad, because none of this even affects me. I'm just annoyed that you're coming in here being a huge pessimist telling people what to say and do. And you are being pissy, buttercup. That's why you're responding. If you didn't care you wouldn't reply.

[quote=Sengarasu]All the crap nexon does to mages will not deter me from making an i/l. I have waited forever for them to pu tmages on par, and they simply will not do so, seems like it... Instead of nerfing the damn wands, they should have raised the bonus to 45-50%. either that, or raise their spell %s. and @iCodykins, yeah, they SHOULD make mg undispellable, or something. Either that, or make a new skill that acts as a buff dummy, like....

Negation barrier*
Max level 5
Protects all active buffs from being cancelled or negated, does not apply to potion effects.

Level 1,protects from debuff once,3min cooldown(gains 1 extra protect each level of mastery)

This skill could be the mage version of combo counter, and have maybe runes or something rotare in orbit around your mage.EAch time a dispel is attempted, a rune could disappear until they run out, which then the buff is over.(combo counter isnt orbit, its more like a wheel.)

Thats all i have to say. I love mages to death, but there is no reason that every class can survive pap past a certain level, yet mages die after a single dispel.[/quote]

I agree with everything you said, except the part about the Negation barrier. They should just make magic guard and infinity an undispelable skill. Also, I agree with the TS that the cool-down should be 15 seconds (it's not a big deal, but it would be nice). Also, They should either raise our elements up to 30-50% OR raise our skill % or multiply our skill damage by adding 2 hits (look at paladin's blast) if a paladin does 180k at lv 150 and I do roughly 125k (excluding crits & theese are estimate lows) then it's just pure BS. + the fact that the skill gets 50% built in crit while ours is only 15%.

My point is, I'm not asking Nexon to put mages at the top DPS, but give us some compensation like 3 hits for our skills, or stronger hits, or faster hits, or best DoT with Bliz/Ice Demon.

Also, you can't really use CL and tele mastery at the same time efficiently; it just makes your CL slower cuz you have to use two moves. If you could use both at the same time without slowing down our main attack, then it would just be ok.

life ain't fair, get use to it

[quote=BoomerangStepz]I see what you mean [from the previously posted videos]. Still, the damage cap does not only apply to mages. Assassinate doesn't go past the damage cap. No skills go past the cap. Frankly, if a mage is SO powerful where the damage cap is a constant problem, then that mage can't really complain about damage, can he?

It doesn't sound weak to say "OMG, I keep hitting 999,999 damage! I wish the cap was higher!"

Correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote]

Okay, you have a good point. But I'm talking in the sense that if anyone has unlimited funding, only classes with quick attacks that hit multiple times (i.e. DBs) would not be hindered by the damage cap. Classes like Shads/Mages, since their attacks are slow/charged and/or only hit once will definitely be hindered if there's no room to improve their damage. Whereas a DB with unlimited funds can be able to take away ~5 mil per second (just guessing on that number).

The only breath of hope for mages seems to be the skill Big Bang, since it hits 5 times, but then again it is only optimal when charged all the way up.

[quote=LittleDog]I think what would be cooler is instead of cooldown, they should be like...a meter of sort. Like everytime you attack an enemy and the meter goes up. And when its full u can re-cast. [/quote]

do you mean like an aran combo-count? and then when you use the skill your combo goes back to 0?

what are these "mages" you speak of?

@Glinda21: The time for pap wasn't the point. I was just pointing out that they hit max damge. Passive infinity would be boss xD

@Kalemora: Are you talking about me? o_o I have a bishop...

[quote=Kalemora]I'm female.
What do?[/quote]
You're just allowed to win. A giant, gender indifferent win.

Mages are a "lol" class. There, I said it. We all know it's true, but you know what? It takes balls to be that one "lol" class. Anyone who is a mage has balls, and dammit, I can respect that.

[quote=BoomerangStepz]Not to be rude but:

The TS and one of the replies mention the damage cap holding mages back. Really? I've never seen a mage come NEAR the damage cap.
I'd appreciate somebody elaborating on how the damage cap is holding mages back.[/quote]

It's not extremely hard to hit the damage cape for an AM. All they'd need is like ~100% INT, be around lvl 18x, and have maxed infinity. So yeah, in those instances the damage cap DOES hinder AMs.

[quote=Xbl1tz3rX]Not come near huh?
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=2olm83IbmjY]xD[/url] Don't say it's cuz they're undead, go to the second half and he still hits max damage on oblivion guards.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=58fLsQSdmr0]More Windian Godliness~[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=MlwkM41vysE]KMS I/L[/url][/quote]

#1 they are all 200
#2 they are all Over funded
And with the 2 pap solos there have been many other classes 20 levels lower than them *referring to mech video* that has solo pap in like 3-8 seconds? IDK bout you, but thats a slap in the face to mages when a class 20 levels lower than you still kills bosses better.
Also, If Nexon didn't nerf mages enough I still can;t believe they lowered CL's hit range from 6 monsters to 3... the ONLY thing mages were good at was large MOBBING! so I guess nexon didn't like that and just made us bad at everything... QQ, They should also make infinity a passive skill, or just remove the cooldown.

[quote=Taichikara]Then you should have specified on which mages you were talking about. You only excluded bams and bishops (which is an adventurer mage) in your original post. Therefore that still leaves both classes of arch mages, blaze wizards, and evans.[/quote]

I specified as much as possible. Evans didn't come to mind when I made the thread. Excuse me, stop getting so pissy over it.