General

[quote=staytru]Sudden Raid would be great if it had high %. I feel like all ultimates with 30sec+ CD's should have great damage for training. I would be pleased with that.

Dark Flare would be useful if it did damage, seeing as I go untouched for minutes
It would also be good if it boosted DMG/Crit if player (party members as well) is within it's range. Of course, all shads will have insane crit (I will have 100%) after RED, but it would be useful of party bossing. Maybe 20% dmg increase? Hmph. Would give us something of value to in party since no one really uses SS (but that also gets a nice beef up in RED).[/quote]

As a NL, I think Sudden Raid has a high skill percentage at 1150%, and now it hits 3 times (6 with SP). The problem isn't really the damage, although it could be at 1500% or closer to 2000%, but it's the long delay that it takes to cast the skill. Even at faster (2) speeds, it becomes 2370 ms, which equals 2.37 seconds to cast it. On a NL, most of our mobbing skills are fast, and can be used close to 3 times compared to one Sudden Raid in 2.37 seconds. If the delay was reduced to a second, or a second and a half, it may actually be a viable skill to use. Again, for NL's, our new Taunt is pretty decent, and does more damage than Sudden Raid in that time. I calculated that Sudden Raid only beats Taunt when used on 8+ mobs.

For Dark Flare, we NL's still have that crummy skill too. I've had several ideas for adding an effect to Dark Flare, which can benefit party members within range as well, and it doesn't include a damage or critical boost. I personally think a Stance effect (roughly 50% chance or greater), and/or an Evasion Rate or Dodge Rate boost (roughly 10-20%) would be ideal for both our classes.

is Prima Critical a passive skill or active? If it's passive, I'm not gonna bother getting it.
But if it's active, I will max it but won't be using it. Just to get the Passive effect: 15% increased maximum critical damage.

[quote=epicman88889]I wish Nexon created a new skill to replace sudden raid! Like.. A ninja appears in the middle and daggers scatter everywhere and deals lots of damage with all criticals

And I would replace dark flare with something like the old shade split, but with another animation :o[/quote]

OR they could turn SR into a BoT type skill. Get those useless arrow firing ninjas to do something more useful, you know what I'm saying?

Sudden Raid would be great if it had high %. I feel like all ultimates with 30sec+ CD's should have great damage for training. I would be pleased with that.

Dark Flare would be useful if it did damage, seeing as I go untouched for minutes
It would also be good if it boosted DMG/Crit if player (party members as well) is within it's range. Of course, all shads will have insane crit (I will have 100%) after RED, but it would be useful of party bossing. Maybe 20% dmg increase? Hmph. Would give us something of value to in party since no one really uses SS (but that also gets a nice beef up in RED).

They still need to replace Sudden Raid and Dark Flare with something of use...

but i love dark flare its so useful please keep it

said no human ever

That needs to go away, for this to constitute a viable revamp.

[quote=Singuy]We literally have the worst 'revamp' (if you can call it that) of the explorer class. Just a few changes here and there. Nothing major, it's actually a nerf on our part.[/quote]

TIL that % and attack buffs constitute being nerfed.

[quote=iDivideZer0]
[i]Phase Dash/ Muspellheim[/i]
-pushes 15 coins along with you[/quote]
yesssssssssssssssssssssssss

I understand why everyone says thief got the short stick now.

I think the most underrated part is that ASS now accumulates body count for players that don't always cap.

its actually rather nice buff and balance unlike the others but imo thief and pirate didnt need a huge revamp change

[quote=sefi132]when will the update come in GMS?[/quote]

RED is KMS' summer update. GMS get KMS' summer updates in the winter and their winter updates in the summer. Therefore RED is most likely going to going at the end of the year in december.

when will the update come in GMS?

[quote=Windex]All I wanted was for the animation for smoke screen to change. God damn.[/quote]

The smokescreen animation has been fixed in KMS for almost a year and a half now, they got it fixed when Justice came out of KMST. It's just GMS' fault for not fixing it, can't complain to KMS about that.

[quote=ThaChampion]I think it would have been nice to get the current Shade Splitter that the night lords have for a new "BoT". Makes sense doesn't it? We get those ninjas hitting them up close and they get the ninjas throwing stars. Oh well. On a side note- assaulter like skill for 5th job? ^-^[/quote]

Shade Split is pretty weak for a NL now since they removed all their passive Hyper Skill upgrades. Taunt basically became our primary 4th job mobbing skill. I'm not too keen on Shad's attacking combinations, but I guess it would still suit you guys to throw a "Shade Split" in between your B-Step.

We literally have the worst 'revamp' (if you can call it that) of the explorer class. Just a few changes here and there. Nothing major, it's actually a nerf on our part.

Also our specialized skill is pretty lame since most shadowers already have 65-80% innate critical rate (flip the coin + phantom link skill + hyperskill crit). I love how they brought back the ship thing for corsairs and super sized it, yet they didn't bring back band of thieves which everyone wanted, or assaulter for that matter.

I think it would have been nice to get the current Shade Splitter that the night lords have for a new "BoT". Makes sense doesn't it? We get those ninjas hitting them up close and they get the ninjas throwing stars. Oh well. On a side note- assaulter like skill for 5th job? ^-^

Not the best, but it will do.

Steal does WHAT?
SB does WHAT?
Phase Dash does WHAT?
Greed does WHAT?

I now feel like my Assassin in Diablo II, with an inventory full of passive damage amplifiers.

[quote=minipokemon]i love how they give us lots of crit, but i dont like how they nerfed assassinate and removed the +1 hit on it i wouldnt mind if they removed limit canceler instead but.. why extra hit?... and they should have given us a better 1v1 skill as well or increase carnival edge to like 150% at least

there is a good and bad side to this revamp though[/quote]

The max and min crit damage are welcomed, but the specialized skill that raises crit rate seems pointless since we already have Flip the Coin that gives us a big chunk of crit.

[quote=minipokemon]@lgnorant: lol yea hi wreaks
i was wondering if i m invited to ur guild? i might join when i get on[/quote]
k post2short

@lgnorant: lol yea hi wreaks
i was wondering if i m invited to ur guild? i might join when i get on

[quote=minipokemon]i love how they give us lots of crit, but i dont like how they nerfed assassinate and removed the +1 hit on it i wouldnt mind if they removed limit canceler instead but.. why extra hit?... and they should have given us a better 1v1 skill as well or increase carnival edge to like 150% at least

there is a good and bad side to this revamp though[/quote]

Of course you wouldnt mind removing limit canceler since unleashed is coming tomorrow, derp.

i love how they give us lots of crit, but i dont like how they nerfed assassinate and removed the +1 hit on it i wouldnt mind if they removed limit canceler instead but.. why extra hit?... and they should have given us a better 1v1 skill as well or increase carnival edge to like 150% at least

there is a good and bad side to this revamp though

[quote=p4htr41ck]I'm curious. Does anyone know that if we switch classes during the Free Advancement system we need to buy the skill books for say NL's or DB's? o:[/quote]
Yes, you need to buy all the Mastery Books.
That's where the new Skillbook NPC comes into play, I assume.

@DarkQuill that sounds great. I would like to add on to that by asking for less delay on B-Step and an even more buffed MC.

Also, I REALLY like the new SB. The animation looks really cool, and 2nd job will be less boring now!

Was having a chitty-chat with someone via PMs earlier about this, here's some of the stuff I bashed out;

*Steal can be removed and have potion stealing effect added to Greed/Pickpocket. Potions appear in inventory rather than on ground (for obv reasons).
*Mob control in 2nd job is improved, 1v1 is very weak until 3rd. This makes low-level bosses (PQs, random Dyle encounters, Balrog Expedition, etc) much slower. SB should go back to 1v1, new skill should have new SB effects for mobbing.
*Mobility needs improving. Hayato shows how fantastic/easy/relevant Assaulter was for chaining skills from 2nd 3rd and 4th job together. AKA - give us Assautler back already. Remove DarkFlare if needed (or lower max level to 5, or something)
*3rd job mobbing is abysmal. MesoExplosion good for bosses and LKC/SH, bad for regular combat. Previous version of Hermits Shadesplit can easily replace PhaseDash.
*4th job 1v1/bossing can be improved by removing MesoExp Hypers and slapping them on MC. Eg;
-Hyper Attack - hits +1 target.
-Hyper Damage - does 20/25% more damage.
-Hyper Pierce - ignores 10/15% enemy defense.
+1 Target means you have alternatives to Nate spam, or that you're more likely to keep hitting your current target, more damage keeps it a quicker skill to throw out for some good burst damage, PDR (or boss%) means all that multi-hit goodness doesn't go to waste as much on bosses.
*Change Spec Skill to something like Advanced Dark Sight. Chance to go into DS after using an attack, gain 1.2 (stacks with bonus for Nate) attack bonus on next skill attack (ANY skill attack), chance or damage increases for 4th job skill, possibly with some other minor passive effect.
*Give us +1 Hit on Nate back. +20% Boss is rubbish by comparison.

I can't really think of any NEW new skills, but changes like these are way better than "FTC cap now increases by 10m instead of 1m" or "pushes coins with you".

[quote=DarkQuill]Hahaha~

Seriously though, if they did change it to a passive, it'd give players incentive to go Smoke earlier.
Look at that, creativity with reasoning! Someone hire me![/quote]

Were do we sign? We need it!

[quote=Drakuaza]"Wait doesnt it make you that you can't get hi...NVM GOOD IDEA!"[/quote]
Hahaha~

Seriously though, if they did change it to a passive, it'd give players incentive to go Smoke earlier.
Look at that, creativity with reasoning! Someone hire me!

[quote=DarkQuill]@Drakuaza: Egh.
You can tell they're struggling to find buffs for the wrong skills. Zero points for trying.

@above: Possibly. Remember though that BoT could be cast twice per second, and attacked in a very large radius, rather than a short area only in front of you.[/quote]

Yeah dude, it's like, they throw random buffs to skills that 99.9% of the time, does not make sense.

dev1" "Quick we need to add a passive buff"...

dev2:"What skill?"

dev1:"Uh...smokebomb!"

dev2:"GIVE IT DMG REDUCTION!"

dev1:"Wait doesnt it make you that you can't get hi...NVM GOOD IDEA!"

@Drakuaza: Egh.
You can tell they're struggling to find buffs for the wrong skills. Zero points for trying.

@above: Possibly. Remember though that BoT could be cast twice per second, and attacked in a very large radius, rather than a short area only in front of you.
The BStep bonus is +25% damage, not damage x 1.25. So it's 651% I believe.

So, is this new Savage Blow better than old BoT? I kinda suck at math but
Old BoT: 435%(?)
New Savage Blow: 192% x 3 = 576 x 1.25(BStep passive) = 720%
Is that right? o_o

[quote=DarkQuill]Just saw this:
[b]Smokescreen: new effect of decreasing damage taken by 10% has been added[/b]
Now, I dunno if that's supposed to be MaxHP instead (like in the vid floating about), but unless this is a passive permanent buff, this is 100% useless. The point of smokescreen is that it makes you INVINCIBLE. What good is 10% to some defensive ability that only lasts while you're inside a cloud of GOD MODE?[/quote]

Supposedly it's HP buff 10%, not damage reduction(as you saw in the video), and it lasts about 2x the time smokebomb does.

Just saw this:
[b]Smokescreen: new effect of decreasing damage taken by 10% has been added[/b]
Now, I dunno if that's supposed to be MaxHP instead (like in the vid floating about), but unless this is a passive permanent buff, this is 100% useless. The point of smokescreen is that it makes you INVINCIBLE. What good is 10% to some defensive ability that only lasts while you're inside a cloud of GOD MODE?

[quote=LetThereBeFradd]Why didn't you just give us Orange Mushroom link without your nonsense then[/quote]

......read the first part......

This was posted hours before Orangemushroom had it up. It was for people to have a general idea of what the revamp would be like based on pure interpretation of the update notes.

i just edited in the link once it came out

Why don't you read the whole thing thoroughly before commenting with your nonsense

[quote=bubblecup118]Nightlord still have too. Unfortunately there is no secondary effect when the skill is on cooldown like for mages. Hope nexon changes that.

It now does when max

1150% X 3 + 1150% X 0.7 X 3
= 3450% + 2415%
= 5865%

Shad got a pretty good revamp, now they have lots of critical skill, Savage blow only 3 hits, I guess some people will be sad about that.

Phase dash can move mesos = lol

Shadow Instinct buff to 180 secs pretty much

Overall Nightlord and Shadowers got pretty shafted[/quote]

Do NL's still have dark flare too?

[quote=j0s3a4d]Oh I almost forgot. We still have Sudden Raid. Screw that skill too.[/quote]

Nightlord still have too. Unfortunately there is no secondary effect when the skill is on cooldown like for mages. Hope nexon changes that.

It now does when max

1150% X 3 + 1150% X 0.7 X 3
= 3450% + 2415%
= 5865%

Shad got a pretty good revamp, now they have lots of critical skill, Savage blow only 3 hits, I guess some people will be sad about that.

Phase dash can move mesos = lol

Shadow Instinct buff to 180 secs pretty much

Overall Nightlord and Shadowers got pretty shafted

Oh I almost forgot. We still have Sudden Raid. Screw that skill too.

[quote=iDivideZer0][/quote]

My bad

Also Bstep gives 25% to Assassinate

There are some really good changes that got me pretty excited when I read them but overall as much as REVAMP goes.
This is not a Shadower revamp but a Shadower tweak. Whether that's good or bad goes to your taste.
Now it makes sense why they had a Dairy Entry for the Night Lords but not for Shadowers.

Anyway, here are my thoughts:
Cool:
- Decrease Assassinate cooldown. It is not what I would've done (-ehem- no-cap nate).
- Shield Mastery's attack increased. This is cool.
- Steal's hp thingy. I don't like Steal but it seems like a neat little effect to heal yourself. Useful at bosses I guess.

About dam time:
- Flash Jump in First Job. We are thieves, this was suppossed to happen ages ago.
- FJ'ing in Dark Sight. In my Wind Archer I can double jump while in my wind walk thingy, why the hell did it take them so long
- Dark Sight no longer affecting speed. This was just stupid, about time it got fixed.
- Took away that ugly Savage Blow animation we've had since Justice. I hated that animation.
- Karma's attack stacks. I haven't play Maple in forever so I assumed it was already so (similar to Rage for Heroes) but I guess finally?

Not sure how I feel:
- Savage Blow being a mob skill. Part of me is thinking, omG great, now I can forget about that stupid Steal but at the same time... Meh nostalgia gets me. Savage Blow is an amazing 1v1 skill, I SB'd my way from level 35 to level 78 (finally got BoT) and I loved that skill. I guess this is better than getting rid of it I guess, and at least now you can max it instead of Steal.
- Muspelheim (screw this name) now pushes coins. This is cool and all but I would rather have them re-do this skill. Make it a rush skill not an ATTACK skill. You don't see Warriors killing mobs with their rush. I want BoT, rush with Muspelheim and then KILL WITH BOT. Is that so much to ask? Bleh =/
- Prisma: For me this is really cool because I have crap for equips so my %crit sucks but for other people this must suuuuck. They already have a super high (even perhaps 100%) so this skill doesn't help them at all until 4th job I guess with the 15% min crit dmg. Even at 4th job 15% crit dmg for our "Specialized Skill" is a complete letdown. Yeah this skill needs a lot of work in my opinion. It was a nice concept but they must also think of those that have been spending their time getting that %crit-rate which makes this skill useless-ish.

Stupid, plain stupid:
- Dark Flare is still here. Why? Please tell me why. I am not a hater of the skill but it fits DOES NOT fit us. We are supposed to evade attacks, move around, not stay in one spot and get hit. This is dumb, so incredibly dumb. Just stupid, plain stupid.
- No BoT. Why? Everyone loved this skill. Everyone wants it back. Do the people in the Korean polls did not want it like we do? Seriously. Make Muspelheim a dam rush skill with 10 SP or something and give us back BoT. I could rant for hours about this but bleh. Eff it all.
- I would rant about Assaulter too but my fingers are already getting angry.

So overall this patch for us... meh? 5.3/10

[quote=DeeeMon]I don't really understand the reset part for Critical Growing, does that mean it resets my crit rate back to 50% since I always have 100% with Flip of the Coin?[/quote]
It SHOULD only be the critical gained from CG. But Nexon hates Bandits, so there's always the possibility.

I don't really understand the reset part for Critical Growing, does that mean it resets my crit rate back to 50% since I always have 100% with Flip of the Coin?

@carrotsfart: No, the 4th hit numbers overlap the 3rd hit. Look closely~
Or, cancel the 4th hit by holding down DarkSight or something, and you'll see 3 hits.
It's the dumb way they changed the current Assassinate; the numbers come up at standard intervals, rather than the previous on-hit ones (which has hits 2 and 3 much closer together), so it's harder to see the numbers.

@Drakuaza: Looking at the vid posted again, the final hit looks like a separate cast. Sometimes it's used almost immediately afterwards, other times there's a fair delay. Wonder how BodyCount charges will work with that..
Still, terrible downgrade in the Hyper Reinforces.

[quote=DarkQuill]Base Nate always does 3 hits. I dunno where you got 2 from 0.o
Charging orbs and more speed is fine, but overall the damage values have decreased significantly. And if you don't use that 4th hit, you'll lose a pile of damage.
Speed comparisons need to be made to determine the DPM/DPS output, but like the rest of the "update", so far the outlook looks bleak.[/quote]

I just checked, Mine hits twice and then does the rush attack. If that's what everyone's saying, then the new skill hits three times, then does the rush attack.

EDIT: OH! RIGHT! I SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW! yup. definitely 3 hits then rush. MY BAD!

[quote=DarkQuill]Base Nate always does 3 hits. I dunno where you got 2 from 0.o
Charging orbs and more speed is fine, but overall the damage values have decreased significantly. And if you don't use that 4th hit, you'll lose a pile of damage.
Speed comparisons need to be made to determine the DPM/DPS output, but like the rest of the "update", so far the outlook looks bleak.[/quote]

We didnt post it here but, the last 4th hit does not rush, it only does it if your 3 initial hits kill the mob, you are able to use left or right, o totally cancel the 4th hit, to attack a second enemy or move away, when the enemy doesnt die, the 4th hit makes you jump and strike them instead, staying in your same position.

[quote=carrotsfart]okay, Well, Assassinate without the final hit, is currently 2 hits. 4 including shadow partner. It will become 3 hits with the revamp, 6 with shadow partner, as well as it'll attack faster. It also charges Kill Count orbs, It could work out nicely?[/quote]
Base Nate always does 3 hits. I dunno where you got 2 from 0.o
Charging orbs and more speed is fine, but overall the damage values have decreased significantly. And if you don't use that 4th hit, you'll lose a pile of damage.
Speed comparisons need to be made to determine the DPM/DPS output, but like the rest of the "update", so far the outlook looks bleak.

[quote=iDivideZer0]wut. Assassinate always had 3 initial hits and 1 final hit. It doesn't change with this revamp either. There's a hyper skill that adds one extra hit to the 3, so that would make it 4 initial hits and 1 final hit, 5 hits in total. The change in this revamp is that the extra hit hyper gets removed.[/quote]

really? I could've sworn that my Shadower hits twice o.O MY BAD!

I'm going to go check this xD

[quote=carrotsfart]okay, Well, Assassinate without the final hit, is currently 2 hits. 4 including shadow partner. It will become 3 hits with the revamp, 6 with shadow partner, as well as it'll attack faster. It also charges Kill Count orbs, It could work out nicely?[/quote]

wut. Assassinate always had 3 initial hits and 1 final hit. It doesn't change with this revamp either. There's a hyper skill that adds one extra hit to the 3, so that would make it 4 initial hits and 1 final hit, 5 hits in total. The change in this revamp is that the extra hit hyper gets removed.

omg savage blow is so amazing I love it it's so crazy

[quote=DarkQuill]@carrotsfart: 4-hits means including the final attack that next to no one uses. All numbers (new and old) were not including any Hyper Reinforce skills.
Using Hypers as well, the gap would be even bigger.[/quote]

okay, Well, Assassinate without the final hit, is currently 2 hits. 4 including shadow partner. It will become 3 hits with the revamp, 6 with shadow partner, as well as it'll attack faster. It also charges Kill Count orbs, It could work out nicely?