Thoughts on Red Shad Revamp
So I'm pretty sure many of you have seen the revamp that shads got for RED by now. So I just want your thoughts on it. And yes I'm pretty sure many of you are disappointed because our revamp doesn't seem so "big" in comparison to what warriors, mages and archers got. But let's try to ignore that fact and focus on the changes we did get.
I could just tell you go to [url=http://orangemushroom.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/kmst-ver-1-2-480-thief-and-pirate-reorganizations/#more-7206]http://orangemushroom.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/kmst-ver-1-2-480-thief-and-pirate-reorganizations/#more-7206[/url] to see the changes yourself. But there were some changes that weren't mentioned in his list. I like being thorough in my work, so I'll just list everything out anyways for the hell of it.
The revamp can be categorized into 7 major changes
[b]1. Savage Blow [/b]
[i]Hits up to 8 monsters at 192% damage 3 times, animation changed[/i]
Pretty good change, it's sad to see SB go, but it that new animation from Renegades/Justice was kinda ugly anyways. Since it is able to mob now, we can link it with BStep for mobbing so we don't have to use with Steal or Phase Dash anymore. Still isn't as good as BoT, but better than nothing.
10/10 good change
[b]2. Specialized Skill[/b]
[i]Critical Growing (2nd job): every 2 seconds of whenever you use an attack, your crit rate will increase by 2%, once it caps at 100% it resets[/i]
[i]Prima Critical (4th job): enhances Critical Growing, crit rate increases by 4% every 2 seconds or after an attack, passively increases MAX crit damage by 15%[/i]
It seems Nexon is giving shads a lot of crit rate now. We started with nothing but 5% base crit, then we got 50% from FTC and now this skill. I'm kinda disappointed in this because we already have quite a high crit rate, so it seems quite useless imo. I was expecting some type of meso related skill, cause that seemed like an ongoing theme for shads.
4/10 try harder
[b]3. Steal[/b]
[i]Causes the monster to drop a potion that heals a random amount of HP/MP, instant healing upon pickup. When used on a boss, the potion that is dropped will heal all HP/MP and gives 30att for 3 min[/i]
I guess items aren't the only thing that this skill steals anymore. It's more like a "life steal" kinda thing. I admit this is kinda unique, I would rather have gone with just a plain old drain skill, having to pick up the potion is a pain cause AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT.
5/10 meh
[b]4. Phase Dash/Muspelheim[/b]
[i]Now pushes 15 coins along with you, damage increased from 358% to 420%, does not require to have a monster in front of you to activate anymore[/i]
For those that don't believe the "not needing a monster to activate" part, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcMH3stHS0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcMH3stHS0k[/url] Go to 0:49. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would rather have assaulter back, cause I would too. The coin push effect seems useful, we can pile up our coins together along with the monster so we don't have to worry about control as much. Damage increase is always welcome.
9/10 Useful
[b]5. Meso Explosion[/b]
[i]Damage increased from 186% to 204%, blows up the coins in front instead of oldest[/i]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDNEPWH1zE4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDNEPWH1zE4[/url] 3:36 for proof that it does blow up the coins in front, there were less than 15 meso packs around her, ME blows up a max amount of 15 coins, only the meso packs in front of her blew up. I guess this goes back to how ME was pre-BB. Very useful, since we won't have to worry about the coins that blow up behind us and focus the attack to the monster in front.
10/10 Very useful
[b]6. Assassinate[/b]
[i]Animation was changed. Damage decreased from 740% to 627%, the final hit does 1320% with 100% crit chance. Final hit does not dash forward anymore. Assassinate - extra hit was removed and replaced with Assassinate - boss killer, which gives nate 20% boss damage. Faster cast time. If the monster dies within the first 3 strikes, the final hit does not activate, but when you use nate on another monster, the final hit will activate instead of the initial 3 hits. Assassinate now accumulated body counts. (Proof: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDNEPWH1zE4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDNEPWH1zE4[/url] Go to 2:54[/i] )
Another interesting change was this: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpz07TIczSs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpz07TIczSs[/url] At 2:21, she uses nate, an icon appears at the top. That icon disappears around 2:54. You would expect the next time she uses nate, it would start off with the final hit, but at 3:38, she starts off with the 3 hits instead. This proves that if you use nate when that icon is active, it will start with the final hit. Once it disappears, the skill resets.
No Rating, needs more testing and calculations.
[b]7. Additional small changes to skills[/b]
[i]Dark Sight - doesn't affect movement speed anymore. Also works against Magnus' bombs and sleeping gas.[/i]
Finally we won't have to re-haste after using DS (especially after DS+nate). I've never went Magnus before, so I can't feel the joy of this additional change.
[i]Flash Jump - "double FJ" similar to AB's FJ. Can be used while in DS[/i]
WEEEE, we get to jump further!
[i]Karma - stacks with other attack buffs[/i]
nuff said
[i]Shield Mastery - att buff increased from 7 to 15 att. Skill now works with secondary weapons too.[/i]
MOAR ATT and good for the people that don't have khanjars.
[i]Midnight Carnival - damage increased from 122% t 138%[/i]
As I have already mentioned, damage increase is always welcome
[i]Meso Mastery - passive effect of 5% att added[/i]
I don't see how this relates to mesos, but who cares, it's 5% att
[i]Boomerang Step - damage increased from 710% to 742%. Number of monsters hit increased from 6 to 8. Passive damage boost now applies to all skills instead of some[/i]
More damage again. Bstep - extra target (hyper skill) just got even more useless.
[i]Smokescreen - gives you a buff that increases your HP according to 10% of the damage that you would have taken while you are in the smoke[/i]
Apparently there was a mistake in the description on Max's blog. idk if it was fixed, but this should be the correct description, it makes sense too. Decent boost, we already have meso guard, but more HP doesn't hurt. And for the people complaining about the animation. The animation was changed in KMS when they got their Renegades/Justice patch a long time ago. GMS got the KMST version of smokescreen. You'll have to wait for GMS to make the fix, so stop complaining when you don't see changes about it when a KMS revamp is released.
[i]Dagger Expert - accuracy and avoid boost was removed, 15% MIN crit damage was added[/i]
WHY DID YOU REMOVE THE AVOID?
[i]Sudden Raid - number of hits increased from 1 to 3[/i]
Seriously, why is this skill still here? And Dark Flare too.
[i]Flip the Coin - damage boost increased from 1m to 10m[/i]
It's not like I'll be hitting that high anyways. QQ
Overall, I think that this revamp is decent, I personally don't think we needed anything much, or our whole playstyle would have changed. You people who are complaining have just been hoping for some big because of this over-hyped revamp. Our play style was perfect to begin with, so we don't need any big changes, just little fixes around is fine. I'm generally happy with everything, ALL EXCEPT ASSASSINATE. Warriors, Mages and Archers have been getting small changes to them even though they got their revamps a few weeks ago, so fear not, there is still room for change for us as well.
So, What are your thoughts on each category?
41 Comments • Newest first
ME reminds me of soul seeker or like a new greater range BoT
welp, time to make a DB
I saw a video of it. I wasn't impressed. It doesn't feel like "Meso Explosion" anymore. It's just a hurricane that sucks your mesos in... We are not BaMs. The idea is cool, the way they brought it about wasn't. Also it takes away the strategic feel of using ME, when you have to plan out how to attack, etc. They are making it easy, which a lot of people are going to love. But I just don't.
[quote=icutyoulol]http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=ucc&no=44441[/quote]
wow, interesting
on Ribbonpig is says [i]"Damage decreased from 204% -> 102%. Number of hits decreased from 15 -> 1."[/i] and on Orangemushroom it says [i]"mesos will now fly directly at a monster instead of just exploding where they are on the ground, damage has been decreased from 204% to 102%, maximum number of mesos exploded has been increased from 15 to 25, effect has been renewed"[/i]
idk if I should be happy or sad about this change still
@piewave @Pavchka Not totally sure about the damage
Our current ME hits 186% 15 times, plus 60% from Meso Mastery, that's 246% 15 times, 3690% in total
The previous KMST version hits 204% 15 times, plus 60% from Meso Mastery, that's 264% 15 times, % in total 3960% total
The new ME hits 102% 25 times, plus 60% from Meso Mastery, that's 162% 25 times, % in total 4050% total
But I have no idea how the mobbing works, and how the mesos are distributed when flying toward the monsters.
There seems to be no change in delay according the extractions, so the speed should be the same.
This also wasn't mentioned in the blogs, but in the extractions it says this "Removed - kp" , I think that ME's ability to add KP/body counts was removed
[url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=67587]Source[/url]
From Ribbonpig's blog, this is currently being tested in KMST:
Bandit: Meso Guard:
- Mesos used to guard against attacks will now drop on the floor.
Chief Bandit:
- Meso Explosion: Damage decreased from 204% -> 102%. Number of hits decreased from 15 -> 1
- Pickpocket: Removed pre-requisite.
Shadower:
- New Hyper Skill: Meso Explosion - Ignore Guard: Increase the Defense Ignored with Meso Explosion by 10%.
- Removed Skill: Meso Explosion - Extra Target
Image of new Meso Explosion animation: http://i.imgur.com/bkvwvki.gif
http://ribbonpig.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/kmst-ver-1-2-481-adventurer-skill-changes-and-update-ui-s/
I don't know what to think of it. Also it doesn't look good for Islanders.
http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=ucc&no=44441
[quote=piewave]Did anyone see the new shadower skill changes? I don't understand what they nmean by a maximum of 10 mesos to shield one attack. I also don't get how meso explosion can explode 25 mesos when hit cap is 15.[/quote]
I saw it. I think it just means that 10 mesos are spent regardless of the amount of damage it blocked, since the mesos that are used will drop on the ground now, cause imagine if the damage that was blocked was 1000, a lot of mesos would be dropping.
dat new meso explosion animation o.o
Also if you look at this picture, [url=http://imgur.com/a/WI7Zy#15]http://imgur.com/a/WI7Zy#15[/url] and count the number of lines, you can see that meso explosion's cap isn't at 15. This was taken post-hypers, feel free to look at the other photos too, if one isn't enough evidence.
Wow, I just realized. Shadowers have shadow in their name... why don't they implement something that uses their shadow partner?
Maybe an final attack type skill or something that boosts Shadower's damage even further
And change their "assassinate points" into # of shadow clones or something
@iDivideZer0: Who cares. I personally would like if we had to go trigger happy! I love key smashing
[quote=daveface6]Am I the only who likes the new Nate...? I think it is so fast and fluent looking. It just feels more smooth and can be spammable almost in comparison finally to PB.[/quote]
After doing some calculations, I have mixed feelings about it. The animation is half decent, needs more work on it though imo. It's supposed to be slightly stronger than the current, if my calculations are correct. But there are still many things we don't know about it. For example, we don't know if we have to press the skill twice to activate the final hit or just plain holding it down.
Am I the only who likes the new Nate...? I think it is so fast and fluent looking. It just feels more smooth and can be spammable almost in comparison finally to PB.
[quote=ProBlades]WHYYYY does Nexon refuse to re-add BoT and Assaulter?[/quote]
Remains a mystery. Assautler, BoT, Transform/SuperTransform and PirateShip are very highly requested skills, hopefully the KMS community feels the same way.
WHYYYY does Nexon refuse to re-add BoT and Assaulter? They were great skills, and everything they add to make up for them is just garbage in comparison. Phase Dash is no replacement for assaulter(and neither is FJ) and adding mobbing to SB does not fix the lack of a proper mobbing skill like BoT. The only interesting thing I see in this update is the Meso Explosion change, everything else just seems random because Nexon has no idea what it's doing with Shadowers(and probably not any other class for that matter).
@mapleck: Maybe if they added enough meso skills to put us on par with them? But yea I can understand how they feel. And yea shads don't really have a theme going atm. So we got meso skills in third job, a random lightning attack (assassinate) in fourth, this black and red color scheme for most of our skills and now Nexon is giving us a bunch of crit skills. Everything seems jumbled up o.o
@SilverFoxR: heh, you have a point, I'll fix that then
I think the specialized skill is going to be changed to minimum and maximum critical damage increase. This skill is horrible for the people who have close to 100% crit rate, or already have it. My shadower already has 74% crit alone from buffs and passives. I wouldn't want this specialized skill.
Probably should have used a 5 point scale for ratings... 7/10 is bad? 8/10 is meh? I believe Mr. Torgue said it best...
[/b]"6 OUT OF 10 IMPLIES IT IS ABOVE AVERAGE!"[/b]
[quote=iDivideZer0].....
The meso concept is what defines the line between shad and DB. If we didn't have it, we basically be a slow version of DB that only wields one dagger... And I seriously don't know anyone else who would want meso explosion to be removed. If it was removed, you'd see more than half the shad community leave, it would basically be like the removal of Assaulter and BoT all over again. That concept has been here since the beginning, Nexon hasn't nerfed it in any way or shown any signs of wanting to remove it.
Also, the bstep delay is also what keeps us from becoming a one button spam class, it forces us to link other skills with it. It's part of our play-style. I'd like to keep our unique-ness tyvm.[/quote]
You make good points. I agree with what you said but I believe that KMSers are just tired of being outclassed by dual blades and just inputting some fixes they can make.
Not sure, would it be more viable to add more meso related skills or is it fine as is?
I see one new skill....so am I going to have to input all of my skill points yet again?
[quote=dahamburgler]Thanks for the info! I was really interested about what Korean players felt about the update!
To the guy above, scrapping the meso explosion/pickpocket concept doesn't necessarily mean scrapping the whole meso concept. I think it's just that most people feel like me/pp is outdated and not very viable for higher level content anymore. Maybe back when we bombed Zakum/gobis etc, but nowadays me feels more like a hassle than it is beneficial.
And please give us a golden color theme! Like the color of boomstep[/quote]
That's true, but if it is removed, it's probably gonna end up like what happened with assaulter and BoT, too many people have nostalgic memories of it. They'll probably end up quitting.
[quote=mapleck]Reporting from the community from Insoya
1. We want assaulter back (faster and with more than 1 monster hit >.>
2. Remove the whole meso explosion/pickpocket concept
3. With flip the coin, its easy to get to 85% crit, possibly change the new skill for more damage oriented
4. Remove boomerang stab delay
5. Have steal heal the user directly rather than having them drop (wtf are we to do when the potions drop on top of zakum etc.)
6. Remove final stab of Assassinate and make Assassinate hit 4 normal times
It looks like many people are discontent because many classes got a visual "woah this is new" change while Shadowers just got small tweaks.
I would like to see what kind of changes will be brought this Wednesday
Also, Take out the Meso concept.. what difference does it make between db's and shads Shield mastery?[/quote]
.....
The meso concept is what defines the line between shad and DB. If we didn't have it, we basically be a slow version of DB that only wields one dagger... And I seriously don't know anyone else who would want meso explosion to be removed. If it was removed, you'd see more than half the shad community leave, it would basically be like the removal of Assaulter and BoT all over again. That concept has been here since the beginning, Nexon hasn't nerfed it in any way or shown any signs of wanting to remove it.
Also, the bstep delay is also what keeps us from becoming a one button spam class, it forces us to link other skills with it. It's part of our play-style. I'd like to keep our unique-ness tyvm.
I'm pretty happy about this, lol we were all complaining about no crit skills and now we have too much ;_; The new assasinate is ehh 7/10 everything else is just fine but our class really needs a main gimmick, is it mesos, is it crit, what is it? In the future, I want them to do more meso skills like having meso final attack or something
Most people seem to desire assaulter for the mobility (go through bosses, etc.)
Idk, my kind of balance would be to have Assassinate much faster and have a snipe like power to match dual blades
I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have a gut feeling that Nexon isn't bringing assaulter back because they have big plans for it in the fifth job. I like to think that they bring assaulter back, but hits numerous enemies multiple times, kinda like the hayoto dash slash thingy (dont know what it's called), but has the same feel as old assaulter.
I would be soooo happy...
Reporting from the community from Insoya
1. We want assaulter back (faster and with more than 1 monster hit >.>
2. Remove the whole meso explosion/pickpocket concept
3. With flip the coin, its easy to get to 85% crit, possibly change the new skill for more damage oriented
4. Remove boomerang stab delay
5. Have steal heal the user directly rather than having them drop (wtf are we to do when the potions drop on top of zakum etc.)
6. Remove final stab of Assassinate and make Assassinate hit 4 normal times
It looks like many people are discontent because many classes got a visual "woah this is new" change while Shadowers just got small tweaks.
I would like to see what kind of changes will be brought this Wednesday
Also, Take out the Meso concept.. what difference does it make between db's and shads Shield mastery?
[quote=DayServant]What if Nexon didn't want to add too much damage because they are going to make us the best thief during 5th job~! :0[/quote]
nexon hates shads.
they prob gonna make DBs even OPer.
[b]Phase Dash[/b] is pretty useful seeing that you can mob coins just as you can do with monsters which is very good 9/10
[b]Specialized Skill[/b] i find that useless because I have S rank crit rate which enables me 100% crit buffed and I'd rather not spend nx to change it 0/10
[b]Dagger Expert[/b] why da hell would thhey give me min crit I want avoid ughh, even though min crit would make my damage more consistent I'd take survivability any day 5/10
[b]Steal[/b] I dont think theres much use for it if you have potion pot I think unless it runs out, but I think it would matter on the cast time and how often it drops the potions and if there is a CD, but the 30atk buff is nice 6.5/10
[b]Savage Blow[/b] A really good mobbing move which is a plus 10/10
Everything else is pretty good in my opinion not too disappointed as you said playing style is the same which is good and they buffed MC which is good its nearly 200% now with all these buffs which is nice and a pretty good 1v1 move now
Overall 8/10 for the revamp
If you boss in a party and you use steal, can your party members take the potion?
[quote=DarkQuill]^ They are going to be applying changes (big or small is anyones guess) sometime this week, and then finalized shortly afterwards.
If the changes continue to suck, it will barely affect us, since we're already cursed with suck.
If the changes are actually good, it will be the longest 6-8 months ever.[/quote]
What if Nexon didn't want to add too much damage because they are going to make us the best thief during 5th job~! :0
^ They are going to be applying changes (big or small is anyones guess) sometime this week, and then finalized shortly afterwards.
If the changes continue to suck, it will barely affect us, since we're already cursed with suck.
If the changes are actually good, it will be the longest 6-8 months ever.
I just hate that I have to wait 6-8 months (that's what I read) for this to happen.
To list it off:
1. Good change, but makes Steal next to useless.
2. Good for low levels, rubbish once you get Flip The Coin.
3. If these can be accumulated without expiration, they could prove to be quite handy. If it's a "heal on pickup", it could give you an effective way to heal others. Skill overshadowed by SB by a longshot, mostly filler.
4. Junk skill. Coin push makes it "better", but a better turd is still a turd.
5. Decent improvements. Not much else that can be changed to make ME better.
6. Needs some number crunching. BC accumulation is nice, animation is ugly as all hell.
7. Mostly minor tweaks/passive effects. They're okay, but definitely not creative. Some are just shoved in there for the hell of it (random atk boost on SM, 5% damage from Greed, HP boost from Smoke, etc). SuddenRaid slightly less rubbish, still only barely useful on Vellum.
2nd job has two attacking moves, one which clearly outshines the other. 3rd job is still abysmal, no Assaulter (this is easily the most requested skill ever). 4th job remains mostly the same bar a far uglier Assassinate. SB gets changed the most, Nate in second place, no actual revamping/overhauling/reorganizing like other classes. Few damage boosts on MC/Step, but rubbish 20%Boss Hyper on Nate.
Big letdown, setting expectations to rock-bottom for a good turnabout.
quite decent revamp, even tho i expected more
so steal now drops pots? pfff, how useless.
i love the new SB, finally a skill to link BS.
i cant belive they removed the 15% avoid.
WEEEE i can double jump!
and whats sudden raid? jk
[quote=DarkQuill]I can't believe you just called PhaseDash useful.
Update overall is lackluster, poor, and needs an overhaul of its own.[/quote]
It's better than nothing
I can't believe you just called PhaseDash useful.
Update overall is lackluster, poor, and needs an overhaul of its own.
i like its
we didnt need a huge rework
its rather balance
[quote=Lehvahk]^you forgot we have the xtra hit hyper skill for Nate. So ur calculations are wrong, after red we lose that and gains crappy 20% boss that we cannot use on certain monsters.[/quote]
Oh, no. You lose one hit on a faster Assassinate. What is there to do? Even though you actually don't lose any damage, you should still complain.
You're also probably the first person ever to call boss damage 'crappy'.
[b]1. Savage Blow[/b]
The placement of the animation seems to be right in center of the big leaf of Boomerang Step, it's good that they kinda made it match. At least it'll make 2nd job training easier. I'm not sure if it's not as good as BoT, but we can still Phase Dash mobs in front of us and then Savage Blow them to death.
10/10
[b]2. Specialized Skill[/b]
This doesn't even work for me, except for the maximum critical damage. Like you said, need something that's meso related.
1/10
[b]3. Steal[/b]
Not really useful to me, except for the 30 attack potion that makes it drop from bosses. Still, I don't boss that often, not even at potion cooldown boss maps. I get an unlimited amount of Reindeer Milk and Sunrise Dew from Ani anyways.
2/10
[b]4. Phase Dash[/b]
It's good for pushing coins and mobs, that's all. But really, it needs more frames of animation or a change of animation, like DarkQuill said.
4/10
[b]5. Meso Explosion[/b]
Coupled with Phase Dash, it'll make 3rd job training a lot easier and more versatile.
9/10
[b]6. Assassinate[/b]
It looks horrible. I'm guessing they wanted to make it look like it's "lightning-fast"? Really? At least make it look like Lethality from Fire Emblem 10. It's red for eff's sake. I really hope something replaces Assassinate in 5th job.
1/10
[b]7. Additional small changes to skills[/b]
All the changes are good, except for Sudden Raid, we don't really need that crap.
10/10 for all other changes
0/10 for Sudden Raid
^you forgot we have the xtra hit hyper skill for Nate. So ur calculations are wrong, after red we lose that and gains crappy 20% boss that we cannot use on certain monsters.
Current Assassinate: 1170ms delay, 2960%, makes you take touch damage.
RED Assassinate: less delay, 3201%, doesn't make your character lurch forward.
Nostalgia goggles or...?
Sad about nate but it's faster so eh.
[quote=iDivideZer0]
[i]Sudden Raid - number of hits increased from 1 to 3[/i]
Seriously, why is this skill still here? And Dark Flare too.
[/quote]
Agreed. I forget I have sudden raid.