General

The truth is: DEAL WITH IT.
Come on people, I'm the poorest kid in this rich area (well almost) and I don't care that everyone else has lots of money. Why should that affect me? Why should I care, or be mad at them?
I agree completely, OP.

[quote=WontPostMuch]True but being honest with ourselves, a serious topic on this issue would be based much less on knee-jerk emotional responses to the topic and beyond such trite observations as "don't blame the system, unless the system is really to blame!" which does nothing to further any possible discussion point. This sort of thing requires one to think way beyond basic economic principles; it's one thing to learn that in a certain, ideal model, demand will equal supply and another to really know how to apply those very basic, oversimplified models to real life. It's one thing to know history, another to learn how to apply it to how our history may lead itself to the disadvantages poor people may face now in the present. It's one thing to speak of the poor, it's another to actually be poor and live among them, just as it's easy to think building a successful business is just due to hard work as it is to assume it's necessarily full of dubious ethical choices. I highly doubt anyone in this thread has given any of those thoughts any meaningful consideration based on their self-righteous, overconfident tone with which they're presented.

In the end, while I can appreciate the sentiment at times, I really think threads like these that don't really carry much thought to them and are charged with emotional language just lead to more harm than good. People express their poorly thought out ideas and pat themselves on the back for merely having a poorly informed opinion.

TL;DR: Basically what @Plenair said[/quote]

Finally, you've made a not so pretentious post. You're basically stating what I've stated in a slightly different way. The thread is not based on emotion, but with all this in mind (not all poor are to blame and not all rich are to blame, as was clearly stated in the OP), to argue a viewpoint.

"I really think threads like these that don't really carry much thought to them and are charged with emotional language just lead to more harm than good". The only thing that really did more harm than good in this thread was a few immature statements made by yourself and a few others. Don't like the thread? Then don't post in it and don't read it, instead of trying to sound like you're too good for it.

@Redefined: This kind of depends on location.

The house you described can cost from like $850k to 1.3mil where I live.

@Redefined: why would you want to live a mediocre life if you have money?

you don't get rich without being greedy (exclude inherited wealth). rich people should help those poorer and less fortunate but most don't.

[quote=Amazing]I think your joke went over his head. Sarcastic remarks and things of that nature kind of bring this smart-ass aura to the user who posted it. I laughed, but I don't think people who want a serious topic appreciate it.[/quote]

True but being honest with ourselves, a serious topic on this issue would be based much less on knee-jerk emotional responses to the topic and beyond such trite observations as "don't blame the system, unless the system is really to blame!" which does nothing to further any possible discussion point. This sort of thing requires one to think way beyond basic economic principles; it's one thing to learn that in a certain, ideal model, demand will equal supply and another to really know how to apply those very basic, oversimplified models to real life. It's one thing to know history, another to learn how to apply it to how our history may lead itself to the disadvantages poor people may face now in the present. It's one thing to speak of the poor, it's another to actually be poor and live among them, just as it's easy to think building a successful business is just due to hard work as it is to assume it's necessarily full of dubious ethical choices. I highly doubt anyone in this thread has given any of those thoughts any meaningful consideration based on their self-righteous, overconfident tone with which they're presented.

In the end, while I can appreciate the sentiment at times, I really think threads like these that don't really carry much thought to them and are charged with emotional language just lead to more harm than good. People express their poorly thought out ideas and pat themselves on the back for merely having a poorly informed opinion.

TL;DR: Basically what @Plenair said

[quote=WontPostMuch]Calling sarcastic remarks "Trolling" lol typical basiler[/quote]

I think your joke went over his head. Sarcastic remarks and things of that nature kind of bring this smart-ass aura to the user who posted it. I laughed, but I don't think people who want a serious topic appreciate it.

[quote=IImaplers]Your attempt to troll is pure genius. I'm happy that this was a real attempt to be smart and not a cop-out post at all. Because you obviously have way more knowledge on the subject of wealth than I do. You're obviously a woman of great intellect.[/quote]

Calling sarcastic remarks "Trolling" lol typical basiler

I think the environment people are in really determine what kind of people they grow up to be.

[quote=IImaplers]@Mephisto: Now your last statement I kind of disagree with. "They are lazy because of the environment". It's not that simple. People use the 'environment' cop out all the time. This is why the people working in McDonald's still do, and others try to find better work and not stay stagnant and blame things on this or that. Things like the internet give people the same books as colleges do, people just don't seem to give a crap. maybe they learned to not give a crap from their parents, but if that's what they value above all else, that's just as selfish as the crony banker stealing millions from everyone. There's two sides to every coin, so let's not blame the environment for every problem in the world.[/quote]

I never said they weren't selfish. But I will continue to say it is the environments fault because it is due to the environment that they aren't [b]dead[/b] or working hard. They never asked to be born after all. What if they were born in an environment (rich person environment) where they have a big ass advantage over the dirt poor. Maybe they wouldn't feel so lazy and dejected. Blame their parents for procreating, but then you'd have to blame the parents' [b]environment[/b] for molding them into some dumbass who wants to bring another life into poverty.

@SpearCrusher: Not directed at you at all. I think we both mostly agree.

@Mephisto: Now your last statement I kind of disagree with. "They are lazy because of the environment". It's not that simple. People use the 'environment' cop out all the time. This is why the people working in McDonald's still do, and others try to find better work and not stay stagnant and blame things on this or that. Things like the internet give people the same books as colleges do, people just don't seem to give a crap. maybe they learned to not give a crap from their parents, but if that's what they value above all else, that's just as selfish as the crony banker stealing millions from everyone. There's two sides to every coin, so let's not blame the environment for every problem in the world.

@IImaplers: They are lazy because of the environment. If they lived in a diff. environment they would either be dead or working hard or rich.

[quote=Hishotodo]yeah, those movie actors really do deserve the millions they get in a few short years
i mean, acting like someone else for a bit is tough, you know? definitely deserves to set you up for life.

brain surgeon? nothing difficult compared to acting. firefighter? they don't know the stress of an actor.[/quote]

supply and demand

[quote=IImaplers]I don't disagree that corruption/crony is happening (starting at the top of our government) but not every person who's a millionaire shouldn't be a millionaire. In fact, most millionaires run and oversee services (including crucial ones to all citizens) in an extremely honest way. So why judge an entire group by the actions of a small part of the group? So many people are doing this that it's unbelievable.[/quote]

I can tell this is directed to me, per the statement. I'm not generalizing nor have I said that all rich people don't deserve to be in that position and that they're all evil people. You asked for another basiler to provide examples to back up his statment, so I provided evidence to prove/support his point.

He said:
"[i]No one is complaining about the rich simply for being rich, it's just that a fair number of the rich are trying to rig competition to their favor so that only they get all the riches and no one else gets it. I pity your viewpoint if you think that most of the high end rich people 'worked hard[/i]'."

I was simply proving that a fair number of people do rig the system and use that opportunity to monopolize others. Of course that doesn't mean all of them do. I know a few wealthy people who work extremely hard to make what they do. My friend's dad is an electrician making over $100 an hour running his own business. He does electrical jobs by himself and with the help of his sons, but does not hire others (from what I know) to do the work for him. Everything he earns is deserved, but there are people who are willing to screw everyone else over for their own self interests. Unfortunately, those people overshadow the fact that many work to get there.

[quote=Mephisto]Poor people have less direction and are undereducated. It's ten times harder to actually have a rare talent or ability when you are conditioned by your environment to work at Wal-Mart. It's not that working harder will get you anywhere either b/c it's more about working smarter (which also is ten times harder when you are undereducated and conditioned to work at Wal-Mart). Poor people aren't really wrong in saying that rich people are selfish because working hard for money (developing your talents) is solely for yourself (your own self improvement/your own money for only the people around you). And just by trying to get that advantage you should understand that you are trampling over multiple people that were less prepared/equipped for success.[/quote]

So, trying to have an advantage (college education, well-paying job, healthcare) tramples over others who do not try that? That makes sense to me. People have to try instead of settling (and perhaps blaming their environment and/or upbringing for their troubles) or else civilization does not move forward. But you're kind of right, albeit the whole picture isn't that simple. All I will say is that there are tons of lazy people in America and they are lazy by choice, not because of environment. Those lazy-by-choice people contribute less to society than the yearly tax of millionaires.

yeah, those movie actors really do deserve the millions they get in a few short years
i mean, acting like someone else for a bit is tough, you know? definitely deserves to set you up for life.

brain surgeon? nothing difficult compared to acting. firefighter? they don't know the stress of an actor.

Poor people have less direction and are undereducated. It's ten times harder to actually have a rare talent or ability when you are conditioned by your environment to work at Wal-Mart. It's not that working harder will get you anywhere either b/c it's more about working smarter (which also is ten times harder when you are undereducated and conditioned to work at Wal-Mart). Poor people aren't really wrong in saying that rich people are selfish because working hard for money (developing your talents) is solely for yourself (your own self improvement/your own money for only the people around you). And just by trying to get that advantage you should understand that you are trampling over multiple people that were less prepared/equipped for success.

I don't disagree that corruption/crony is happening (starting at the top of our government) but not every person who's a millionaire shouldn't be a millionaire. In fact, most millionaires run and oversee services (including crucial ones to all citizens) in an extremely honest way. So why judge an entire group by the actions of a small part of the group? So many people are doing this that it's unbelievable.

Survival of the fittest.

You have to consider that a majority of the basilers nowadays are not grownups, and in the case of being born into a rich family or a poor family, then it's not your fault, since you haven't had an opportunity yet to earn money, and a lot of those rich kids use the money of their parents and claim themselves to be rich.

If the people you are talking about are kids, then I can understand them because the kids are born with what their parents achieved. Your wealth doesn't really matter until you actually get a job, or get your own income.

[quote=Thiefy996]Ya're absolutely right, of course athletes should deserve bajillions for playing a simple sport while scientists get along with a few thousand dollars per year - but who cares about improving the world, SPORTS![/quote]

It's supply and demand. Much more people are capable of being scientists than professional athletes. If anything, professional athletes are underpaid.

rich > poor
no ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions

The way I always thought of it was this.

Who puts the money in the pockets of the rich people?

[quote=Redefined]@Kiryuin: to retire at like age 30, you only need around 7 million dollars to live an average, comfortable life I think

1billion - 7million is 993million dollars. okay. You can sit around with having 7million, what more do you need? nothing.
im not saying that all their money should go to others, because they worked hard for it and they do deserve SOME of it

but that money can be used for other things to help out society and the economy[/quote]
$7 million to live comfortably and retire at 30?

lol just lol.

[quote=IImaplers]How have I failed to? Please enlighten us. Btw, I barely make 30,000 dollars a year. I'm not anything close to a rich person at all.

@Singuy: I'd love to see examples of this (reputable and objective sources please). Corporations have corporate mentalities and that's not always a good thing, but that's not to say anyone in their position wouldn't and shouldn't do the same thing if allowed the same opportunity.[/quote]

Monsanto monopolizing in the food industry with GMOs while hypocritically serving only organic food in their cafeterias and in the White House. They sue farmers for replanting their seeds from grown food and demand cash for it.

Super packs being used to buy politicians votes. Rigged elections

Money used as a tool to sway lawmakers into passing bills they do NOT read. The money is given to states, which pays guess who's salary? That's right, the lawmakers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xcbi5SH27c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXfjd1ffpQ8

Video summary: CEOs go to work for the government making new laws that benefit themselves and their company > go back to said company and abuse the laws

[quote=Thiefy996]Ya're absolutely right, of course athletes should deserve bajillions for playing a simple sport while scientists get along with a few thousand dollars per year - but who cares about improving the world, SPORTS![/quote]

how much money do these scientists generate a year?
now how much money do these athletes generate a year?
that right there explains why they get paid more, it has nothing to do with what's more important. If you generate more money, you'll get paid more.

someone must've said something to you for you to make such a illegitimate thread

Well I think that even though some people do work hard to earn what they earn that value is still determined by people. The people earn what they earn because someone said that it will be that way. I think in that way the system is kind of bull crap. The counterargument however is that the money made for you to get paid is determined by the world and people that participate in society as a whole.

[quote=WontPostMuch]Wow OP you have such a novel, ground-breaking view point. I have like, literally never heard this point of view before. Amaze.[/quote]
Your attempt to troll is pure genius. I'm happy that this was a real attempt to be smart and not a cop-out post at all. Because you obviously have way more knowledge on the subject of wealth than I do. You're obviously a woman of great intellect.

Wow OP you have such a novel, ground-breaking view point. I have like, literally never heard this point of view before. Amaze.

I should state that I'm talking mainly about America, not 3rd world countries where government corruption is extremely rampant.

Welcome to the world of gray, there is no pure white nor pure black. Living in a 3rd world makes you start a disadvatangeous position, though i will sacrifice anyone for my own success, that's the way i see this, if i can't crush anyone here, is more likely i'll be crushed

[quote=Redefined]how does one person deserve over a billion dollars? Sure his contributions can be outstanding, but you are never going to use that much money.

just my thoughts[/quote]

i think having so much left over money is the best part of being rich

you can just relax knowing that you won't run out for like ever

and for few, can help the less fortunate

i've never met a rich person so idk lmao

[quote=checkmastyle]I don't agree with this. My parents are quite rich. My family belongs to that 1% of rich people. Yes, They've worked hard to get there but it's nonsense to say that that's the main reason they've got there. The reason why my family's rich is because of luck. The luck that they had the opportunities. They were born in a country with great welfare, had a stable and loving environment, went to school and eventually to university which gave them the oppurtunity to be succesful. There are so many poor people that didn't have this luck and therefore didn't have the oppurtunity. Because I was born in the same country, went to school and am going to uni next year, have a stable and loving environment I'm given all the oppurtunities to achieve the same. I might become one of the rich myself but not because of my hard work. I am sure that someone in a fabric in India works way and way harder than me and maybe would even be more capable of doing my job if given the oppurtunity. But because I had the luck to be born in the right place with the right circumstances I will most likely achieve an awful lot more.

Being poor or rich depends mostly on luck.[/quote]

I don't disagree that luck is a major factor, but some people are given tons of opportunity and tons of luck as well, yet are irresponsible with it; and do not accomplish much as a result.

@Singuy: I've never agreed that wall street should've gotten a bailout. But it wasn't wall street's fault that they got it. I think the blame goes to Obama's decisions in that they weren't thought out well (i.e. looks like he's always been buying votes rather than earning them to me).

@RisingRain: Of course this issue is not just black and white. I just don't think it's always a matter of luck (although luck is significant). The rich aren't always rich because they are lucky. My main point is that: If a person has a tough job, they should be rewarded well for accomplishing it. Would anyone disagree with this?

I don't agree with this. My parents are quite rich. My family belongs to that 1% of rich people. Yes, They've worked hard to get there but it's nonsense to say that that's the main reason they've got there. The reason why my family's rich is because of luck. The luck that they had the opportunities. They were born in a country with great welfare, had a stable and loving environment, went to school and eventually to university which gave them the oppurtunity to be succesful. There are so many poor people that didn't have this luck and therefore didn't have the oppurtunity. Because I was born in the same country, went to school and am going to uni next year, have a stable and loving environment I'm given all the oppurtunities to achieve the same. I might become one of the rich myself but not because of my hard work. I am sure that someone in a fabric in India works way and way harder than me and maybe would even be more capable of doing my job if given the oppurtunity. But because I had the luck to be born in the right place with the right circumstances I will most likely achieve an awful lot more.

Being poor or rich depends mostly on luck.

@IImaplers You should watch this video if you're talking about money between the rich and the poor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

You want your view changed? Go here and make a thread, I [b]guarantee[/b] you'll have some new insight on this issue.
The issue is nowhere as black and white as you make it out.
While the most liberal wealth distribution ideas definitely have a myriad of problems, so does the whole "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" theory you espouse.
http://reddit.com/r/changemyview

[quote=IImaplers]I'd love to see examples of this (reputable and objective sources please).[/quote]

Here's an economists viewpoint
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/11/08/The-Financial-System-Is-Rigged-in-Favor-of-the-Rich

Also relevant to the discussion
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/30/a-rigged-game-of-monopoly-reveals-how-feeling-wealthy-changes-our-behavior/

[quote=IImaplers]but that's not to say anyone in their position wouldn't and shouldn't do the same thing if allowed the same opportunity.[/quote]

And that is why people are mad not only at them but also at the government for doing nothing to repel them from doing this.

[quote=aznseal]Wow, I thought I made this thread.[/quote]
I'm not sure whether I should take that as a compliment but I will

Wow, I thought I made this thread.

@tsubasa128: Thanks for the support. I'm interested in others' opinion on this subject as well. Even if the opinion is contrary to my own, maybe it could actually persuade me to change my thoughts. So far, no one has offered something which would cause me to question my current opinion, and that's a shame lol .

[quote=tiesandbowties]it's stupid because you've just stated the obvious. there's wasn't too much insight.[/quote]

There's a lot of obvious threads on basil. This thread is created so the thread starter can engage in discussions that he's interested in. If you think this thread is obvious, then you might as well get off basil.

[quote=tiesandbowties]you've failed to look at it from the poor man's perspective. lol..[/quote]
How have I failed to? Please enlighten us. Btw, I barely make 30,000 dollars a year. I'm not anything close to a rich person at all.

@Singuy: I'd love to see examples of this (reputable and objective sources please). Corporations have corporate mentalities and that's not always a good thing, but that's not to say anyone in their position wouldn't and shouldn't do the same thing if allowed the same opportunity (as long as it's not unethical).

No one is complaining about the rich simply for being rich, it's just that a fair number of the rich are trying to rig competition to their favor so that only they get all the riches and no one else gets it. I pity your viewpoint if you think that most of the high end rich people 'worked hard'.

[quote=IImaplers]I've stated the 'obvious' but yet we have millions of people parading around in the streets (instead of going out and looking for a job) and claiming that life is unfair and the rich people are stealing their money. So if millions of people are doing this, it's not so obvious to them now is it?[/quote]

you've failed to look at it from the poor man's perspective. lol..

[quote=tiesandbowties]it's stupid because you've just stated the obvious. there's wasn't too much insight.[/quote]
I've stated the 'obvious' but yet we have millions of people parading around in the streets (instead of going out and looking for a job) and claiming that life is unfair and the rich people are stealing their money. So if millions of people are doing this, it's not so obvious to them now is it?

[quote=IImaplers]But how would you know? Are you able to read it?

@xtripled: It's not always that simple, but that's one of the points I was trying to make, so yes.[/quote]

it's stupid because you've just stated the obvious. there's wasn't too much insight.

[quote=tiesandbowties]this is such a stupid thread lol[/quote]
But how would you know? Are you able to read it?

@xtripled: It's not always that simple, but that's one of the points I was trying to make, so yes.