General

@jakbeer:

GMS has already additional options, though the feature is disabled except for the items that already had additional options(those from EMS). Flames are there as there as well, though unobtainable.

Anyways GMS AO have the scissor count as its just the same as KMS one.

It's time to release S nebs, yes they were OP back then and should have stayed unreleased but now that the ceiling has been raised it's a no brainer because it's already in the game data and no further programming work is needed. HOWEVER, acquisition of all nebulites will need to be overhauled. Make it easier and cheaper to get and remove the fusion tickets needed to fuse them (or make them buyable in pot stores or perhaps integrate the requirement into the crafting). Heck they could even bring back the Alien cube if they want to please the pay2winners (like the Inner ability system).

The only real downside to nebs is the threat of duping, as we've seen in the past. But it's not as if no booms and primes will be the duping currency if nebs aren't. That's why they should be cheaper so as to mitigate the threat.

Alternatively we could just get a nerfed version of flames to balance out our nebulite system. The thing is, like someone said it's way too RNG even if it's acquired in game. Plus we don't know if there will be a scissor's limit.

As for 25 stars, I'm not sure how it works but from what I've read normal equips with 22 stars will have about the same stats as tyrant at 10-13 stars? It would certainly equalize the gap between tyrant and non-tyrant users and if so then I'm all for it. I really can't comment too much since I don't know a lot about it.

fk no another statistical sht?

@okaythen: We are hoping for the scissorless version of flames. It is hard to get tweaks from KMS because I remember not everything got implemented from my Marvel Machine survey because KMS doesn't have nebs or Marvel and probably doesn't care with GMS's satisfaction of their GMS-exclusive content.

If players wanted the best flames, they would need high rank alchemists (master or meister) with extractors to recycle flames and a high level accessory craftsman (meister) to make the flames for the higher level gear. Zakum and RA is perfectly doable for anyone who is or has a party, and they will be able to upgrade their gear after boss fights or sell it to those who need a lot of flames to break down. The unfunded players with low level gear can profit off of the power-hungry upper class by selling them materials they are short of. If they upgrade their gear enough and get good results, they can move on to tackle stronger bosses and increase the number of flames they obtain to sell/use. I can envision a community of players being able to upgrade their equipment after a boss and where the poor always has something to sell.

I understand you want to make Nebulites more available to the free 2 play players, but do you it is a good thing to have players do other professions aside from making meister cubes. To make flames for high level gear, you must have someone who has a high level in alchemy to extract the flames, and a high level accessory craftsman to construct the flames.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PJdMZ_3L48jYHIXqImyMBk-HVPYgrLHnBlc292F4qPQ/edit?usp=sharing

The document I made a year ago shows the complete breakdown on flames and how they are obtained in KMS and you might conclude that flames dropped from bosses have limitations so players using lower level gear benefit more.

Example:
In order for a person wearing CRA, Superior Gollux, Tyrant and SW to flame their gear, they must obtain the highest level flame from bosses (the chart explains how difficult it is to flame items above 150) If that player couldn't craft flames, he can only use 2 flames on CRA/Gollux/Tyrants a day if he killed CPB or Hard Hilla while the SW gear is only affected by crafted flames whose materials come from recycling flames dropped by bosses.

Endgame players usually use Sweetwater equipment which are 160 and only be enhanced by crafted flames if we had them. Most of the flames cater to those who wear equipment below 160 (there are 150, 140, 130, 120, 110 flames.) The flames can only enhance items whose level is below the flame's level. The item's results are determined by equipment's level. The craftable flames give the bigger results than the boss dropped ones (kind of like a unique with 9% LUK 6%LUK compared to a better unique with 9% LUK 9% LUK.)
Flames may be another version of Nebulites, but I am not aiming for damage; I hope to bring players together to work together to make flames, and have those who have many crappy ones sell it those who need it in their crafting (getting a good flame result is hard especially if you restricted to the crafted ones only.)

@jakbeer: The best nebs would certainly NOT be unbuyable if there were lots more ways of obtaining better nebs.
A lot more expensive than flames? Yes... but it's a guaranteed stat so you won't have to go through the frustration that is RNG to get the stats you want. RNG could hurt you so bad that you end up spending more on flames than you would on a nebulite with your desired stats. There is a reason why more people like buying premade than making stuff themselves.

Want to make the useless nebs worth something? Change the way neb fusing works, remove the paywall behind it.
Now we can get decent/good nebs from drops and also fuse nebs if we get something bad to make it better.

Now it's very similar to how flames work. Newbies can sell/craft nebs for money/better nebs, just like flames.

The only difference is, flames will laugh at you when you get that STR boost on your mage tyrants and there's nothing you can do about it other than re-roll. But for nebs, if you got a STR neb, you could give it/sell it to someone who needs it so you don't make as much of a loss, or fuse again.

Both have RNG bs, but you won't get cucked as hard with nebs as opposed to flames.
We don't need flames, just changes to how nebs are acquired.

Also we could very well end up getting the flames that add trade limits...

@jakbeer: amazing comment, agreed

@okaythen , @istalkpeople: Even if there were an abundance of A Nebs and B to non paying players, no will buy them and the best nebs will still be hell expensive and almost unbuyable.

That would hurt those that had spent money on bonus potentials, legendaries etc. If AO were introduced to the game, I would guarantee people would be hitting higher numbers and bosses like Hard Lotus and Hard Damien would be plausible when 5th job comes.

There is my theory on how the flames might impact the community
Endgame players usually use Sweetwater equipment which are 160 and only be enhanced by crafted flames if we had them. Most of the flames cater to those who wear equipment below 160 (there are 150, 140, 130, 120, 110 flames.) The flames can only enhance items whose level is below the flame's level. The item's results are determined by equipment's level. The craftable flames give the bigger results than the boss dropped ones (kind of like a unique with 9% LUK 6%LUK compared to a better unique with 9% LUK 9% LUK.)

In order for a person wearing CRA, Superior Gollux, Tyrant and SW to flame their gear, they must obtain the highest level flame from bosses (the chart here explains how difficult it is to flame items above 150) If that player couldn't craft flames, he can only use 2 flames on CRA/Gollux/Tyrants a day if he killed CPB or Hard Hilla while the SW gear is only affected by crafted flames whose materials come from recycling flames dropped by bosses.

If players wanted the best flames, they would need high rank alchemists (master or meister) with extractors to recycle flames and a high level accessory craftsman (meister) to make the flames for the higher level gear. Zakum and RA is perfectly doable for anyone who is or has a party, and they will be able to upgrade their gear after boss fights or sell it to those who need a lot of flames to break down. The unfunded players with low level gear can profit off of the power-hungry upper class by selling them materials they are short of. If they upgrade their gear enough and get good results, they can move on to tackle stronger bosses and increase the number of flames they obtain to sell/use. I can envision a community of players being able to upgrade their equipment after a boss and where the poor always has something to sell.

I hope Nexon would consider adding Additional Options to the GMS as well as return it to EMS. (Please don't include the scissor count.)

(This was taken from my latest comment on the Nexon Forums)

I prefer our nebulite system and would not wish for AO system. Making B rank nebs more accessible would be ideal update and help greatly. GMS still does have S rank nebs in reserve, if ever AO seems too OP compared to our system.

Instead of adding flames, just make nebs more accessible.
Make B nebs drop from bosses or something so that more people can use them and gain nice boosts.

I thought we weren't getting the additional options system because we have nebulites and KMS is mad at us for that.

Seeing as EMS no longer has the MSEA additional options system(no scissor count), I doubt that GMS will ever get it.

Chances are that if we ever get additional options it will be the KMS ones with 10 scissor count, which EMS has since they got the v173 client.

@masterobert: http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fshowthread.php%3F1528128-Flames-of-Rebirth-(Again-)%26nxid%3D6

The thread you were reading was pretty much a copy and paste of my thread (which is older) except he got the paste everywhere.

Yes I agree with the addition since it is a free alternative and encourages players to use less-popular gear (I like seeing diversity in gearing). I wouldn't mind getting EMS's version at all. I really hope Nexon considers the idea as it will give all players something to look forward to.

i can't read all that.My reading level is only at letter "G"

@masterobert: Our nebulite system is nothing like their flame system even though GMS puts it as the reason as to why we wont get it. However the 25 star thing is true.

Man, nobody is going to read that big wall of text. Whoever wrote that should seriously consider better formatting.

As far as I know, our Nebulite system is their Additional Options/Flames of Rebirth and the only reason KMS has Star Force up to 25 is because they had MEEs.