General

Thats right ♡ Ryude kaiser is godly and 5th job just makes it even better. Glad to see that even though the chart does seem somewhat innacurate.

@dupants: 3x 80%=240%, 2x 120%=240%

this is just based off percentages of skills and math/formulas so it's stupid
and damage cap was removed so it really doesn't matter because that's all on your funding

phantom should be at the top for that stupid joker skill which does ridiculous LOADS of damage within seconds if you're extremely funded but no they probably put phantom at the bottom because of the dmg % of Mille Aiguilles because it does 3 lines now instead of 2

@rtyu:

DBs need buffing, imo. They arne't especially weak, but I think they should be higher up based on that their class is designed to be all-out-attack, forgoing a lot of defense.

I remember when 4th job was revealed and Bishops were on top because genesis was the strongest skill on paper

It was hilarious when people bandwagon'd on them funding priests left and right for 4th job, and when it hit they all became skele mules

@unlucky7: Depends how they do the DPM chart, if they do it for 1min and that's it then NL's have spread throw until the last 5s of the minute, if they do it over an hour or so and even things out then DB should be able to go over.

Hey, we're on there twice! Although probably skill specific.

@star909 Based on my knowledge, that spread would be extremely useful seeing as most bosses are 1v1's anyways. Also will their dpm/dps drastically decrease once spread throw is over? Can a dualblade or shad be able to out dpm them by then? Sorry for the questions i really wanna know how thief classes stack against one another.

ANYWAYS, woo go nl lol cant believe cannoneer so high up

@natty2: i disliked making this and the fact that it's innacurate only to the fact that i can't get the delay's outside of bahumet, ifrit and the DoT's for F/P but [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1chpt7_QLFJReOAlA8tS7D3hNzXvb8ooa5fVPqJqQ4TY/edit?usp=sharing]here you go[/url]

Edit: sometime later im going to have to correct F/P's numbers but it's a 5% difference in the final damage multiplier.

nicely controlled BaM is always on top 10
@ghoul: so? theres no damage cap anymore (assuming by DPS u meant hits chart which is an incorrect way to call it though, its called HPS)

@unlucky7: NL's 5th makes it so they throw 40 stars, and if you're right in front of a boss you get about 34 of those in, and then there's also mark of the nightlord, also NL has their own source of %final damage, attack speed is presumed to be soft cap because thats the fastest they can go.

Can anyone tell me how the NL's are so high and why DB's are so low? Do they factor in FC for the db and also does speed of attacks even matter in this chart? I find it a bit absurd that NL has such high DPM

@natty2: i'd like to take note that KMS can't break soft cap so you're "extra AS" is meaningless other than you have one less speed source needed. Also Bishop only has a 1.5625x multiplier compared to F/P's 1.75x multiplier. That isnt counting enhancement cores which makes bishshop 3.125x and F/P 3.5x-5.25x.

It's DPM not DPS

@natty2: You're also forgetting that the new elemental reset or resistance gives an increase final damage of 40%, which they added after nerfing it's 100% elemental resistance. Your original post earlier doesn't take into account the fact that paralyze is only used in current factor since it has better hits/s in this current 50M damage cap. Take that damage cap off, and unless you're hitting 10B lines, you're going to be stacking DoT's and using ME + Haze, which does significantly increase a F/P's % damage output.

I know damage charts aren't the best way to gauge how strong a class is, but a good reason why you see F/P's new the top of some of these is because ME + Haze + DoT have massive % output. Keep in mind these charts are % output, which don't always mean more damage.

Sure Paralyze vs VOA'd AR, bishops win, but F/P is a class that NEEDS to use it's other skills if you're not capping or near capping.

@natty2: Just going to politely point out that this is for KMS where it factors in 5th job skills and without the damage cap. Saying bishop having 60m damage cap per line is kind of irrelevant. (â�"¿o‿o)

Aran is #1 this chart bs

@risastolemyhart: Also, another point: as of now, if both are capping, and without any exterior help (only the class set of skills)
Than Bishop should STILL overpower a F/P, because 10 lines, because faster attacks speed, AND because the cap for bishops is 60m per line with Epic Adventure.

bishops at the bottom? ahahaha.....tell me this is a lie.

@risastolemyhart: Your information is not up to date.
Angel Ray does 5 lines.
Hyper skill adds additional 5 lines, and adds 25% final damage, and +50 magic attack, and 20% PDR.

Nexon loves NLs. lol

@natty2: I have browsed through old DPM charts posted on Reddit, which are obviously based on KMS. I'm not going to look at recent ones because i too don't know 5th job skills and the damage cap has been lifted. But one thing is for sure. Bishop is almost always consistently on the lower end of the charts.

Bishop can not out-damage an actual damage mage class. Bishops have far more utility spells (dispel, resurrect, magic door, HS) and is designed to be a supportive class, while other mages are more focused in offensive skills.

I will not count any skill that they both share or skills that don't boost damage*

2nd Job - Bishop and F/P

Holy Arrow (518%)
Bishop has +15 MA from Bless

Flame Orb (301%, # of Hits: 2)
Poison Breath (180%) (DOT = 60% every sec)
50% chance Ignite (110% for 6 seconds) +30 MA from Meditation

3rd Job - Bishop and F/P

Shining Ray (254%, # of Attacks: 4)
Bishop has a passive that grants critical Rate +40%

Explosion (405%, #of Attacks: 2)
Poison Mist (270%, (DOT = 180% every sec)
Viral Slime (160% continuous damage to the target for 10 sec)

F/P passive burns 1% of enemy's current MP at 10% chance upon using fire magic. And 50 times of consumed MP will be dealt as extra damage. +50% MA buff from Element Amplification. Burning Magic increases final damage by 20% when attacking enemies affected by DoT.

4th Job - Bishop and F/P

Angel Ray (365%, # of Attacks: 4)
Genesis (810%, # of Attacks: 6) Additional Critical Rate: 20%
Big Bang (480%, # of Attacks: 4) max DEF -40%
MA +30 buff from Adv Blessing. Bahamut (650%).

Paralyze (261%, # of Attacks: 6) (DOT = 180% every sec for 10 seconds)
Mist Eruption (345%) (Ignored Monster Defense Rate: 40%) (Permanently increases Poison Mist's continuous damage to 300%) (Final Damage modifier 125% for 5 explosions)
Meteor Shower (935%, # of Attacks: 4) While on cd has a 60% chance to deal 220% damage on a single enemy with a meteorite.
Flame Haze (504%, # of Attacks: 6) Inflicts 190% continuous damage at 100% chance for 12 sec.
Ifrit (450%) (DOT = 140% damage for 2 sec)

Bishop offensive hypers = Boss Damage: +10%, Magic Attack: +20
Heaven's Door can be used once within a minute (1000%, # of Attacks: 8)
Righteously Indignant increases Angel Ray Attack Count +4. Monster DEF Ignored: 20%. Recover Amount: 40%. Attack Speed increased by 1.

F/P offensive hypers = Almost every hyper passive increases his damage in some form or another
Megiddo Flame (700%, # of Attacks: 9) 700% damage every 1 sec for 30 sec. Negates Attack Ignore and Attack Reflect effects. Cooldown: 50 sec.
Inferno Aura (250% per second)

In every isolated comparison. F/B has better AoE, more offensive skills doing damage, and more damage instances. Bishop only starts to ramp up in damage at 4th job. "DoTs are cute" Lmao. If they're both cap, the fact alone that the F/P has so many more damage sources via DOTs means his DPM will always be higher than Bishop.

Kudos for making me type this all out. You might as well argue Leona scales harder with AD than a uckking Jinx.

It's weird but encouraging to see my class so high on the list Go Cannoneers!

@rtyu: i think a more accurate one is to pull up KMS one since they've gotten more changes and the DPM chart is towards KMS standards.

@maplebhav:
Well, if you're using a dagger, obviously not.

Aran cannot be that high up!

Yeah, I didn't find any up-to-date skill guide. I took Bishop stats from ingame, I can't really do the same for F/P.
I didn't factor in a lot, *for both sides.*
If you care to do the math, as of now - you'll see I have a point, I promise you.
I'm not just salty about the table, I mean it.

@natty2: yes great to know that you dont factor in bahumet or ifrit or any of f/p's dot and instea look at one skill. Do you wear a telescope while doing this too?

@natty2:
Don't f/p's get a large final damage boost for stacking DoT's?
And with the cap gone, shouldn't mist eruption factor in heavily?
Also, you seem to have copy-pasted the bishop's 5th job skill but neglected to see that you yourself only get 40% of the final damage boost, not the full effect.

@risastolemyhart: I think I've already had this conversation before.
Bishop's AR does 10 lines, each line is 295% (total 2950%).

Paralyze on the other hand, does 250% per line, only 6 lines, 7 if you include Hyper skill.

Every time I'm having this conversation, I'm the one providing the numbers, while other people tell me "I'm not taking X into account".
Yes, DoTs are cute, but they aren't good enough.
When VoA is turned-on, Bishop's main attacking skill, AR hits faster than Paralyze (so if the table doesn't take into account outside resources, Bishop definitely has the upper hand).
Paralyze does get a hyper skill that increases the damage by 20%,
But bishop's hyper give +50 Magic attack, and +25% FINAL DAMAGE, AND 20% PDR.
In addition to all of that, F/P Mages used to have an advantage of Elemental Reset. It is now equal among all mages.

All of the above is - as of today, in GMS.
Future patches forshadow only NERFS (except for Infinity raising the cap. Guess what? Bishop get the same boost too).

Intuition tells you "Bishop is a supportive class, it's supposed to be weak".
Carefuly looking and numbers, and stats tells you current Bishop is better than F/P in nearly every field.

After 5th job comes out, I do not know how the numbers work, because of the V-Core System (it changes the power of past skills).
If we talk about 5th job skills;
F/P mage's skill at max level: Create 15 fireballs that find enemies for 30 seconds, each dealing 700% damage 5 times. For enemies within range, summon an additional fireball for every 1 stack of DoT on them. Enemies hit by multiple fireballs will take 50% reduced damage from the additional ones. Enemies hit by fireballs will take 260% damage every second for 10 seconds. Cooldown: 40 seconds.

Bishop's Skill at max level: For 50 seconds, create an area for party members that increases their final damage by 10%, heals 2% of their max HP and MP every few seconds, and removes status effects every few seconds. Final damage boost will be increased by 1% per 1500 INT, up to a maximum of 70% final damage. HP/MP heal will be increased by 1% per 2000 INT, up to a maximum of 15%. Attack speed boost will be increased by 10000 INT per attack speed stage, up to a maximum of 3 stages. You will receive 40% of the effects of the final damage boost. Cooldown: 120 seconds.

If we say both mages are fighting a boss, or a single enemy, F/P mage will attack once, with the fire-balls, 5 lines of 700%, and aditional balls of DoTs. Bishops get 50 seconds of 10% final damage, and 1% added per 1,500 INT (so if you had 24k INT, for example thats another 16% for a total of 26% final damage, FOR 50 SECONDS).

Both sound pretty impressive if you ask me.
But hey, I'm a biased, butt-hurt bishop who knows nothing, and I'm just upset they decided to place Bishops 2nd to last, probably.

@natty2:
On a serious note, I don't think that's what this chart is.
It would be interesting to see exactly how he did it, but I'm not going to assume the whole thing is completely made up jsut because it might be wrong.

@natty2: the chart is not supposed to be a flawless damage chart, and never claims to be. You're the one who is too dense to interpret it correctly.

There is no opinion in the chart. It's just data based on a set of controlled variables and conditions, which the guy who made it even includes these next to the chart. And it's reliable in the way the data can be reproduced. You don't need a brain to know that Paladin would be in the low side of damage compared to every other warrior class. In what world would a Bishop who is a supporting class out damage an actual damage mage rofl?

@risastolemyhart: Orrr you can make up an imagionary list, based on your opinion, throw in some cool random numbers for show, and you got yourself a list.

If you actually go back to the source, it actually tells you (well in Korean) the conditions the guy set for the measurements.
For example, he factored in 50% of Ignite and Hologram effectiveness instead of 100%. I don't know what this means, i only play Aran lel.

Don't take this graph so seriously. It's a standardized measure of DPM without getting extremely complicated. And i think it does a decent job.

Assume you had every class available. They are all level 200 and stats were all automatically allocated. No equips, no external buffs (only buffs that are in your class's kit), no hyperstats, no inner ability etc. And you make each class non-stop attack a dummy unit with the most efficient use of skills and buffs (smart cooldown management) to maximize DPM. It doesn't take a genius to figure out there will be losers and winners due to some classes having more/less lines in their kit. Some classes have higher/lower attack speed, some have more/less boss damage etc.

There is no way to perfectly measure who is the 7th highest DPM or 21st. Although i would say close-first and close-last is easier.

@littletlk: Yup, 100% butt-mad.
But I can comfort myself knowing that F/P is suddenly #7 which confirms this list is 101% bull

According to this, shade is the weakest pirate. Lol!!

dam cannoneers lol!

@natty2:

u just buttmad being next-to-last lol

@masterobert: I saw it like a week ago.
I said the same thing.
There are so many wrong things with it, I don't even know where to start

having no damage cap (or a cap of 10bil) works in wondrous ways

@vicetone: I'm assuming it has something to do with 5th job (â�"¿o‿o)

This doesn't even make any sense.

how is db so low