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Demonavenger

What happened to demon avenger?

I used to see them flying around all over the places, it's almost like a DemonAvengerStory instead of MapleStory. Now I rarely see them around, especially the one who main them. What happened? I logged in my mule and it is still hitting like a truck armed with cannon so I don't think damage is a reason.

September 12, 2016

26 Comments • Newest first

Honoiro

@randomcity2 ahaha I sure hope it's changed, but I was so surprised to find out kms did not have gollux or sweetwater because people were hitting 1 billion dmg when cap was removed. However I saw [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mub3sh-aDnI]this[/url] video and noticed his/her weapon has 500 attack on it at 18 stars so I guess its not that surprising for even more funded players to reach even higher stats.

I hope atleast the 25 star system will come because right now end game just consists of lucky cubing, balancing out %att,%boss, and %pdr and achieving 15 star tyrants which is pretty stale for growth beyond cap.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Randomcity2

@honoiro: Umm . . DA arcane symbols based around pure hp so they're giving us 4200 hp at level 1 and gains 1400 hp per level for a max of 71400 hp from three maxed out lvl 15 arcane symbols, but . . .they're treated as itemHP and like other arcane symbol do not get affected by %hp. SHOULD be like 5250 hp at level 1 gaining 1750 HP per level ... but whatever . . . Deal with it and pray KMS sees the error of their ways and makes that count pure HP or edit the HP amounts to be based of ItemHP values instead before it comes to GMS. And the reason we don't have 25 stars as the cap is because GMS isn't as nice as KMS or all the other regions that gave out the 25 star cap aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddd . . . we never got Miraculous Equip Enhancement scrolls, or any server for that matter other than KMS, and THAT was the entire reason behind adding of 25 star limit so as to make up for items made into superior items (almost), due to Miraculous Equip Enhancement Scrolls and the need to balance that off for those that didn't hoard or buy off noobs those awesomesauce event scrolls. If we ever get it in GMS, it is most likely to happen at or a little before 5th job is released here, hopefully including a release of the additional options system and flames of rebirth as well.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

@randomcity2 I just realized after checking max's blog that kms has had 25 stars for non superior equips since 2014 but I don't think we will get it because kms does not have gollux or these crazy attack items from tms that we do.

Speaking of arcane symbols, are the hp symbols treated the same as stat symbols for other classes? aka not affected by %stat/%hp? it seems kind of dumb to add like 3.5k hp or something.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
AshleyAttacked

Apparently he just died...

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/world-famous-exorcist-father-gabriele-amorth-dies-at-91

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

@ourania Please make sure you actually understand this game. %all stat DOES provide %main stat which means in the real world, there are no end game maplers who would pass up on a combination of %main stat and %all stat in search of JUST "3 lines of STR". Therefore there are more AMOUNT of USEFUL lines one will come across from the thousands of combinations of actual ENDGAME lines to be achieved. I do not know why you say I brought it up when your post clearly says "What happened to all the DAs? ... ESPECIALLY THE ONE WHO MAIN THEM" (main them but not end game?) Even if you were talking about DAs at ANY stage of the game, my theory applies: you will always have a HARDER time cubing for %HP and the set bonus %HP only makes up for the deficit.

I won't question your level of education but in this scenario it refers to the method of approach I showed in my cards analogy.
On top of which, just because something IS luck related does not mean we have to treat it as such because our topic is for EVERY DA which can be at ANY stage of the game which means you cannot use YOUR personal case by case scenario to decide if its easy or not to achieve a certain outcome.

Furthermore, I did not imply I can determine the outcome. I already said there WILL be a chance for the unlikely to happen. However it is the question of how much MORE likely one thing will occur than another. In a hypothetical situation, for someone willing to put money in the game, if you can cube a mix of useful stats in 10 cubes vs cubing for mix of %HP in 30 cubes, obviously you would try non DA which lead to the decline in endgame DAs because other than the nether shield spam, there was no other incentive to fund and cube for %HP.

No I did not overlook the %HP bonus, I just stated that if you consider %HP and flat HP to be damage, then flat stats are also "free" stats which you obtain from equips that DAs do not benefit from and that it does not need to be %stat to be equal.

OBVIOUSLY DA was balanced from the star force conversion, but that already proves that the free sources of HP you boast about did not give DA the significant edge for people to actually choose DA over ANY other class. Just because ONE aspect of the class (starforce) has been balanced, does not mean the other aspects are. In which case we're discussing the discrepancy in cubing.

Again, READ what I have wrote.

The comparison was done BEFORE the passive buff patch, and both DA and TB has one of the least amounts of damage gain from their passive skills aside from their respective masteries. I would not give you an unfair example. In fact, the only major differentiating factor aside from margin of error is the weapon multiplier. So even with a HIGHER multiplier, DA was not able to achieve the same amount of stat gain from SIMILAR equips as my TB.

These are opinions, but proven by concrete facts by a DA who has gone from unfunded to endgame. I do not know why you feel like I am attacking you or DA as a class but these are just my understanding of the game after maining the class.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Randomcity2

@ourania: I checked that Korean wiki and its actually wrong on the weapon multiplier. . .well its not and yet at the same time it is .. .GMS we still use 1.3 as the weapon multiplier and KMS apparently uses 1.65 as the weapon multiplier for Desperado post REBOOT. Current GMS Demon Avenger Damage Formula is approximately as follows:
[4*((PureHP/28)+(ItemHP/35)) + STR] * 1.3 * (Weapon Attack * (1 + %ATT)) * (1 + %Damage) + Bonus Damage{paladin card/ thunder breaker card / buccaneer card} = Max Range
for what I put in my excel spreadsheet calculator for the sake of accuracy:
=TRUNC(SUM(PRODUCT(SUM(PRODUCT(1,SUM(QUOTIENT(4*B12,28),QUOTIENT(SUM(4*B3,-4*B12),35))),D3),1.3,0.01,F3,SUM(1,H3))*SUM(1,I3),J3))
B3 being theoretical max HP, B12 being pure hp from level up AP and job advancement, D3 being STR(inclusive of %STR), F3 being attack (inclusive of % ATT), H3 being %damage, I3 being final damage, but that's not yet counted as range till 5th job, J3 being bonus damage from character cards
If you insist on only checking end game triple vs end game triple i'll run some rough math for you on this

Acceptable lines for normal warrior:
12% STR / 12% STR / 12% STR
12% STR / 12% STR / 9% ALL STAT
12% STR / 9% ALL STAT / 9% ALL STAT
9% ALL STAT / 9% ALL STAT / 9% ALL STAT
12% STR / 12% STR / 9% STR
12% STR / 12% STR / 6% ALL STAT
12% STR / 9% ALL STAT / 9% STR
9% ALL STAT / 9% ALL STAT / 9% STR
12% STR / 9% STR / 9% STR
9% ALL STAT / 9% STR / 9% STR
12% STR / 9% STR / 6% ALL STAT

Demon Avenger acceptable lines:
12% HP / 12% HP / 12% HP
12% HP / 12% HP / 9% HP
12% HP / 9% HP / 9% HP

yeah . . already looking bad for DA at 11 normal vs 3 for DA (6 vs 3 if you insist on 30%+)

Using this site here as reference:
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/MapleStory/Potential_System

As an example of difficulty to hit your triple lets go with one of the easiest items due to no special lines . . . a shoulder, which surprisingly is 18 possible lines for both primary and secondary lines of potentials at legendary tier potential under the assumption that you do not hit that hard to calculate for chance of pulling from a lower / higher tier pool of potentials that your items potential tier stipulates that it should and ignoring other such crap. MapleRNG is known to generate the same or similar values multiple times in a row usually in short streaks occasionally in long for both good and devastatingly bad results. This is going by average not luck or the stuck in a bad or good rut moments with it.

Triple line primary for normal warrior: [18 x 18 x 18] / 4 = 5832 / 4 = 1458 cubes to hit dat, but factor in MapleRNG and that's like 583 cubes to hit dat as normal max and expect around 233 cubes to hit dat IGNORING THE WEIGHTING / SKEWING OF LINES TO MOSTLY BE SINGLE PRIMARY but should be multiplied by like 9 to 16 to get close to its actual probability

Double Primary line for normal warrior: same as above, but multiply by like 3 - 5 to get close to its actual probability

Single Primary line for normal warrior: [18 x 18 x 18] / 3 = 5832 / 3 = 1944 to hit dat, but factor in MapleRNG and that's like 778 cubes as usual max to hit it and should be expected around like 311 cubes again IGNORING WEIGHTING / SKEWING OF LINES
Triple line primary for Demon Avenger: [18 x 18 x 18] / 1 = 5832 / 1 = 5832 cubes to hit dat, but factor in MapleRNG and that's like 2333 cubes as the usual max to hit it and should be expected around like 933 cubes IGNORING WEIGHTING / SKEWING OF LINES TO MOSTLY BE SINGLE PRIMARY but should be multiplied by like 9 to 16 to get close to its actual probability

Double Primary line for Demon Avenger: same as above but multiply by like 3 - 5 for something close to its actual probability

Single Primary line for Demon Avenger: same as above but this is skewed a bit. . .

Rough overall cube amounts for acceptable triple for normal warrior: (778 * 2 / 3) + (583 * 1 / 4) + (583 * 1 / 12.5) for an estimated average max of 711 cubes to hit dat triple but expected around (311 * 2 / 3) + (233 * 1 / 4) + (233 * 1 / 12.5) which puts it at like 284 cubes where you should expect to hit that triple

Rough overall cube amounts for triple line for Demon Avenger: (2333 * 2 / 3) + (2333 * 1 / 4) + (2333 * 1 / 12.5) for an estimated average max of like 2325 cubes to hit that triple but expect it around (933 * 2 / 3) + (933 * 1 / 4) + (933 * 1 / 12.5) for about 930 cubes to be the average point to hit a triple for Demon Avenger

Divide the Demon Avenger figures by 2 to 4 to get rough chances for a normal class if you insist on 30%+
Notes on bonus potentials:
(they're a f***ing NIGHTMARE at like 36 primary / 33 secondary lines even compared to main pot hat / glove at 23 / 22 or 21 lines primary / secondary) . . .

Lines of flat attack shouldn't be accepted for both Demon Avenger or a regular class in bonus potential other than as a random third line in your aiming for two wanted lines as you get a good bit more range from +2 stat per 10 level or % stat / % all stat lines of potential for corresponding lines of primary or secondary attack lines. Demon Avenger gets higher %hp amounts vs normals in bonus potential which although nice, isn't actually a match win over having half your gear with one line %stat/ all stat + 2 stat per 10 level and other half as 2 line % stat / all stat until you're at super try hard levels of base hp from doing stuff like transposing an Aquarius crown to Sweetwater, as well as you tyrants and clean slating back to the 7 / 9 max slots of Sweetwater and filling back in with more 30% spell trace for HP and scrolling your accessories other than gollux with 30% trace for hp as well and of course 15 starring EVERYTHING.

Assuming you're Lv. 236 here

Super funded as f*** end game GMS Demon Avenger ends up with like 100 - 120k item / skill hp base and like 44k pure hp with like 950 - 1100% hp for like 1.8 - 2m hp which is equivalent to like 51~ 57.5k main stat

Super funded as f*** end game GMS normal class ends up with like 40 - 45 k main stat with transposed tyrants and aquarius crown and half the bpots as +2 main stat per 10 level + a line of %main stat or % all stat for like ~800 % main stat

Just note the demon avenger hit damage cap on EVERYTHING a f***ing loooooooooooong time back at just 620 - 750k hp. Also note that Xenon boasts of similar if not MUCH BETTER results for the same cubing difficulty to go only %all stat and try hard scrolling for all prime scrolls

Come 5th job this becomes about 2.2 - 2.5m hp for 63 - 70k main stat equivalent for demon avenger though lacking A LOT of base stat comparatively but having the same approximate 60 - 70k main stat as a regular class after getting everything to 22 stars for both and getting all three arcane symbols to the max level with the normal class swapping out the +2 stat per 10 level lines for more % stat / all stat for somewhere over 900% main stat. Though Demon Avenger's arcane symbols are based around pure HP at 28 hp yet is counted as item Hp which uses a 35 as divisor .. . so yeah . . like almost 7/9ths the hp it should be if based around item HP as it counts in your range. It still kinda bothers me that we don't get to win like xenon continues to with the missing base hp since we gain like 640 main stat equivalent from going to 22 stars on all vs like ~1500 or more all stat gained for normal classes getting everything from 15 > 22 stars. If they make up for the base HP with star force conversion it should be like two new tiers at 251 - 330 and 331+ for 280 hp per star from 251 - 330 and like 420 - 450 hp per star at 331+ to make up for the difference in base stats.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Ourania

@honoiro: Endgame = 3 lines of main stat. A mix of main stat and sub stat are not endgame. It is simple. Get it? Cubing 3 lines of STR is as "hard" as cubing 3 lines of HP. AND I already ACKNOWLEDGED that if you're just SOMEWHERE in between the ENDGAME and HIGHLY FUNDED, which I mentioned as half-ass, then your point IS VALID. But HEY, you guys BROUGHT UP ENDGAME topic FIRST.

RNG has a "science" behind it. Ha! It is more like a math. Not science. And a lottery or gamble based "math" is always luck related. You has no way in life calculate or determine the outcome of this lottery or gamble.

Wow, and you're trying to look over the "HP %" bonus and just want to compare the flat HP and stat bonus? Okay. I ain't sure why, and don't see any reason to do it.

So in the end Star Force Conversion is ALREADY there to BALANCE them, which will NOT put DA under DISADVANTAGE when compared to other classes. So I ain't sure why you put up a point and quickly counter it yourself afterward.

Still, using range as comparison, among two completely DIFFERENT classes, to lay out a reference is always NOT REALISTIC, or at least OPTIMAL. Then everything you had just compared could be only taken as a grain of salt, just like any other so called DPM CHARTS out there.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

@ourania It's not whether one will or will not roll 3 lines, it's the process of getting there which differentiates cubing between other classes and DA. If you actually read my example, it shows that without factoring in luck/RNG, any player cubing their equips will obtain a desirable amount of stats from a larger pool of choices even when cubing for 3 perfect lines which translates to an EASIER time to reach end game compared to DAs.

RNG is luck but there's a science behind it. If one have a rigged deck of 8 aces but only 2 jacks, they would automatically bet on drawing the ace because there are physically more of them, but that doesn't mean they won't draw the jack either. Just because YOU did it once does not mean EVERY other DA (which is the point of our topic here, DA as a class) is able to accomplish the same thing YOU did because of luck.

I stated HP not %HP, which basically translates to damage either way.

My point is that just because it seems like it's "free" stats(HP), it doesn't mean it gives DA a significant advantage over other classes which is WHY they had to implement star force conversion to balance out the power from equips.

Unfortunately battle analysis was not around when my tb was funded and I have already sold all the equips. However, that should not be used in this scenario because we're comparing stat gain difference between DA and all other classes and not just tb so I labeled it a REFERENCE with similarly equipped characters.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Ourania

@honoiro: My point is, anyone aiming for endgame status WILL try to roll 3 lines of the main stat, which render all classes to the SAME "difficulty" in rolling the main stat they desire. Sure, if you just want to half-ass your character and think, well this is pretty good so I'll just leave it there even though this is not the perfect one, then I guess your point is valid. But you guys have been talking about "DA is not that great for ENDGAME so it's not that popular now" so that's why I'm so narrow minded on being ENDGAME since you guys are the first bring it up.

This argument is anecdotal because while it is possible to roll all three useful lines, there is a very slim chance of that occurring and one cannot use luck to judge whether the outcome of one situation can be replicated in others.
Wow, RNG is not all about luck. Okay. So I'm not lucky if I somehow get my ideal stats in 3 cubes or if I get my inner ability to 1 attack speed in a few rolls or whatnot, it is just that I happened to have that very SLIM CHANCE to get that stat. YES, NOT LUCKY AT ALL.

On to your other argument which I missed about DAs getting free sources of HP, this is also the same of other classes.
Sure, yeah. Like there's any set bonus that gives STAT %. However,

Even without prime scrolls, the amount of pure stats that you can gain from 5 star tyrants alone sufficiently matches the amount of %hp gained from set effects.
Oh, yeah, but then,

In fact, that's why the star force enhancement was updated to buff DAs.
So your point is?

And stop comparing range among different classes, use battle analysis instead.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

@ourania RNG aside, @randomcity2 and I are referring to the fact that for any 3L legendary equip, other class' have a higher change of rolling useful lines.

Now to illustrate, let us assume for the purpose of our topic that:
1. We will only get potentials which are useful (ex. for non-DAs - %main stat(regardless of str, dex, int, or luk because you will only have one useful stat not including xenon) and %all stat, or just %HP for DAs)
2. The item in question is not classified as a weapon aka no %attack, no %boss damage
3. The item is 3 lined legendary of level 71-150(ex. cra, empress) and only main pot, no bonus potential

For classes not including DA and xenon, you can have 4 choices of 12% or 9% main/all stat for the first line, 6 choices of 12%, 9%, and 6% main/all stat for the second line, and 8 choices of 12%, 9%, 6% or (god forbid) 3% main/all stat for the third line. Theoretically, in 1 cube, you have [b]192[/b] different combinations of 3 lines on a single item.

Back to Demon Avengers. You can only have either 12% or 9% HP line on first line, 12%, 9% or 6% on the second, or 9%, 6% and 3% line on the third. That totals to only [b]18[/b] combinations of useful potential lines out of the [b]hundreds[/b] of useless potentials that RNG can give you.

(One can argue that in the reality, Nexon graces us by giving us less chances to obtain our useful stat)

"That is just you being UNLUCKY. There's always a lot of other people of other stat that had rolled a 3 lines of HP %."

This argument is anecdotal because while it [b]is[/b] possible to roll all three useful lines, there is a very [b]slim[/b] chance of that occurring and one cannot use luck to judge whether the outcome of one situation can be replicated in others.

EDIT:
On to your other argument which I missed about DAs getting free sources of HP, this is also the same of other classes. Again, lets assume that secondary stats on both DA(str) and non DA classes are negligible.
So for every item which gives both hp and all stats you can only account for the main stat.

Even without prime scrolls, the amount of pure stats that you can gain from 5 star tyrants alone sufficiently matches the amount of %hp gained from set effects. For reference, I mained a TB before my DA and both had 7 star tyrants on (glove, shoe, belt, and cape). My TB had ~200% str, ~900 attack, and a range of 700k clean(pre self buffs). With relatively the same amount of %HP and attack, I am only able to achieve 680k clean on my DA(all tyrants on). What I can conclude is that while there are sufficient amounts of %HP to gain easily, the amount of stats from items which DAs miss out on also plays a big part in evening out the power discrepancy. In fact, that's why the star force enhancement was updated to buff DAs.

Reply September 17, 2016 - edited
Ourania

@randomcity2: If you're talking about additional potential, there is always weapon attack to be included as well, even on armor pieces so I don't see what's the problem about especially when DA has A LOT HIGHER weapon multiplier than others which benefit DA more than any other fellows, more so when compared to other warrior classes when the highest one is 1 2 handed Hero with his weird multiplier like 1.4x or a spear / PA user with 1.49 multiplier only as opposed to 1.65. Not to mention that the base wa of both clean Fafnir Spear and Desperado are the same which makes it even better so the argument of "oh yes this weapon has high multiplier but its weapon's base stat is always very low like claw" is not valid. The only classes that are higher than DA are claw and knuckle users. Also what the gibberish are you claiming that hitting triple line of HP % or 2 lines of HP % is HARDER than getting 2 same lines of ANY OTHER STAT? That is just you being UNLUCKY. There's always a lot of other people of other stat that had rolled a 3 lines of HP %. Or it's just you being LUCKY to hit other STAT for you to sell them EASIER to get even more MONEY to fund your DA. It's all RNG. Which is good if you look it in another way.

Reply September 16, 2016 - edited
Randomcity2

@ourania: YES we get those bonuses free with a bit of work to level up and grind out that soul, BUUUUUTTTTTT . . . .think about this . . . that max line of 300 / 310 hp at legendary as the highest flat line is only about 7 or 8 main stat equivalent, and there's no analog to the +1 / 2 main stat per 10 level line for DA . . . so a regular class can and will aim for at least half their bpots to have that line with rest being % stat and end up with a lot more total main stat than DA unless we aim for as many of those "free" bonuses as possible to make up for in % what they get as base main stat . . . plus the difficulty of 8 times as hard to hit triple line %hp and four times as hard to hit 2 line %hp when actually aiming for it. Best thing to do is buy 30+%hp for what you can and cube for it on what you dont see with a crap ton of clean copies and sell off whatever hits %str or good for normals that you hit along the way to that triple line hp.

Reply September 16, 2016 - edited
Ourania

@honoiro: But then, isn't all endgame player WILL try to aim for 2~3L of main stat pots? I even see someone try to achieve 3L of the main stat of the highest percentage on legendary! And there's just way too many ways to increase HP % with little to no effort. Cannon + Kaiser link skills (25%), decent HB (40%), Dark Knight character card (3~4%), various item set effects that gives HP % and HP bonus, items that give innate HP % like CHTP and Rex earring, Ephenia Soul (50%), Hyper stat (15%), character card set effects that gives HP bonus, Willpower from personality trait, etc. No other class has that many free options like DA. When the worse come to worst, STR still does give a little more benefit. Not to mention the weapon multiplier is actually 1.65 as opposed of 1.30 which is listed incorrectly in English wikis too (like how cannon is actually 1.5 instead of 1.8).

Korean wiki for DA (translate it to English and Ctrl+F "constant weapons") : https://namu.wiki/w/%EB%8D%B0%EB%AA%AC%EC%96%B4%EB%B2%A4%EC%A0%B8
The English wiki that is never updated : http://strategywiki.org/wiki/MapleStory/Formulas

Reply September 15, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

@ourania That's what people who aren't at end game thinks about DA: "%HP is so easy to get!" but once you're actually trying to cube for %HP, you realize DAs have a disadvantage because you can't go for a combination of % main stat and % all stat so you're always struggling for those 2-3L pots.

Reply September 14, 2016 - edited
Ourania

@randomcity2: I guess you have a point. But I think the damage cap being raised to 10 billion means a lot more improvement for DA to grow too, especially without the shield spam. I don't know why but those shield spam videos are super boring to me. I prefer the one where the DA is actively alternating between execution, shield and the rush skill to dodge stuffs instead of hiding far away and cast the shield. I meant that isn't how a DA is supposed to fight. I'm sort of glad when Nexon decided to disallow us to go under 5 seconds for CD, otherwise I'll be prioritizing -CD potential too to maximize damage, I meant everyone will just try to maximize damage output this is MapleStory, and it's not going to be fun if I just spam shield in a corner.

Reply September 14, 2016 - edited
Randomcity2

@ourania: Its actually NOT about whether or not its capped damage for nether shield spam, though cap is actually changed to 10 billion damage. You hit about the same damage per line on nether shield compared to Exceed: Execution so whether or not you're capping, 17 ~ 18 hits a second at hard speed cap of zero with 1 second cooldown reduction applied to nether shield (500% x 1.2 cause glitch) + execution(475% x 1.4) + infernal exceed(200% x 1.2 cause glitch) (our final attack) vs something like 27 - 34 hits a second or pure ~(500% / 520% x 1.2 cause glitch) damage per line is a win any way you look at it. Btw, the glitch I'm referring to is where either the hyper skill Exceed-Reinforce or pain dampener(not sure which) is incorrectly applying its 20% damage multiplier to EVERYTHING and not just exceed skills as its description states, though don't go telling Nexon to fix it cause I like my free bonus damage.

Reply September 14, 2016 - edited
Ourania

If damage cap is removed, doesn't it makes DA more desirable to be focused on as hits per second is no longer an issue anymore? I meant getting all those HP % and stuffs are like so easy! Nether Shield spam looks like it's good just because it gives a lot of hits per seconds.

Reply September 14, 2016 - edited
Randomcity2

@oakmontowls: No, 5th job is not bringing back nether shield spam,at least not on KMS side of the story. GMS may decide to revert the change to the potential line to be like KMS has it when the cool down comes off of mesos explosion in the next patch with KMS content instead of smashed together JMS + CMS / TMS stuff or GMS original content. As for KMS? they're giving us our 5th job skill that is a masochists version of a magicians infinity buff + the blood your gushing onto the ground from slitting your wrists, so to speak, will do a crazy 27 or so hits a second just by itself. . . consider that make up for the 5 second hat for nether shield spam as lv 25, the current max, is 500% damage for 2 lines and therefore same % as nether shield no hyper at something not too far below the theoretical hits per second you'd get off of a -5 second hat pre-nerf to KMS standard for the potential. If we get to spam nether shield plus that? Insanity . . . DA would be undisputed #1 in damage charts with spamming nether shield plus the blood splashes.

Reply September 14, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

@oakmontowls no I meant the 5th job skill Demon Frenzy will hopefully bring back the dps DAs had when nether shield spam was around.
@markred626 I'm so hyped for the new skill!

Reply September 14, 2016 - edited
oakmontowls

@honoiro: 5th job is bringing back shield spam?

Reply September 13, 2016 - edited
markred626

@dbenaruk if you were strong enough that would have been always your mobbing lol
@honoiro AIDS BLOOD FTW

Reply September 13, 2016 - edited
Dbenbaruk

I'm just hating that all I do is spam execution and then nether shield every like 5 seconds. Also the fact that they don't have a lot of lines bothers me. Execution hits like 2 monsters, wtf is that. I'm not trying to use a 3rd job skill to mob with. I want new skills!

Reply September 13, 2016 - edited
Honoiro

Like above @oakmontowls, the cooldown nerf made many end game DAs quit and dissuaded others to fund it. Personally, I think 5th job will bring back end game DA's power with nether shield spam.

Reply September 13, 2016 - edited
Kanji

The class can get pretty linear after a certain point. Not that it isn't an interesting class with a nice mechanic, but it just stops appealing to you after a while. I'm training my new DA in Reboot right now and I'm enjoying it, but it's hard to let go of my Blaster to play her.

Reply September 12, 2016 - edited
oakmontowls

They got nerfed when they changed how cool down reduction works. They were really powerful when they could spam nether shield constantly, now they aren't nearly as powerful.

Reply September 12, 2016 - edited
DeeeMon

Not much to do after 210(at least for me). I'd rather play Symphony of the Night, dood.

Reply September 12, 2016 - edited