General

[quote=wall]Good player doesn't exactly mean cap damage, or soloing chaos vellum. There are many other ways where people can excel without good damage. You most certainly don't need to cap to solo vellum either, for a good potion of jobs you can do it with 25-30m lines.

Also, your last point seems to me like you mean that good players are able to buy nx with meso, and not spend real money on the game. I don't necessarily agree with that either. I choose not to purchase nx from other players because I don't think it's right, and I have the means to buy it with real money. Many other people feel the same as me, and even though it would be very easy for me to use the meso I have to buy nx, I rather help my friends out with it, or buy nx stuff to let it rot in my cash inventory.[/quote]

Not once did I say that hitting cap meant killing cvellum, Those were two entirely different lines.

The difference between this PB event, where you get a good title putting a lot of work into it, and having 15%+ on all your gear is why someone that is pay2win will have an easier time, and someone that doesn't want to throw down over 500 dollars on this game isn't bad by his own willpower. Just cause an event comes by that gives mostly time limited things, doesn't mean the people that have less than 100k range are there "by their own willpower", unless you can show me how to get 2m range by playing pink bean without any money.

[quote=curesword]Good= Have control over their characters and doesn't resort to cheating
Bad= Resort to cheating, unable to kill a relatively easy boss despite having maximum damage[/quote]
On some level, tho, I don't think the idea of hacking/cheating really holds as much value in a game like Maplestory. Nexon holds all the cards and their whims/mistakes have a hugely disproportionate impact on gameplay at the personal level than it should. For example...I started playing when the game first came out, and, tho it doesn't effect anything, due to being too sick to attend regular school I had a huge amount invested in my characters and the increased in game time had got me 2 lvl 200 characters pre big bang, a Bishop and a BM. However, because Nexon made serious mistakes in how the game is run, I was first hacked in 2010 and a second time in 2012. Both times were Nexon's own fault. The first was during the first massive database breach, and the second involved the MTS database breach and me being targeted because I was undercutting some major chair hackers in another world. The second time around I lost literally 1mil nx that I had earned through huge amount of hard work...and every piece of gear I owned on the two accounts I used towards MTS merching. In this second event Nexon acknowledged to me that the hacking was on their end and the result of a database breach. This was further corroborated in 2013 when I actually met one of the hackers involved who apologized to me and proved his story by knowing way more than I had ever bothered to share with anyone. The first event was also on Nexon's end, though they didn't spell it out to me as clearly as in the second time - but I know for certain the cause as this was when Eos over at SW was hacked as well and brought a lawsuit against Nexon.

In both situations Nexon never once corrected the situation they allowed to happen to me any better than 25k maplepoints. All I wanted was a roll back the first time around and Nexon literally strung me along for 6 weeks before telling me on a wednesday that, should I respond in agreement, that they wouild roll back my account the following weekend to where it had been prehack. I agreed...and they told me to log off my account by 9am pst that Friday and to not relog till 9am pst the following Monday. They further told me that anything I had gotten since being hacked needed to be removed from the account, otherwise it would disappear after the rollback.

Anyways, I logged back on the following monday only to find -nothing- changed. I ticketed Nexon back again to figure out what was going on only to be told that they hadn't been able to do it.

So not only did they do nothing...but they dragged it out 7 full days before telling me that they hadn't even gotten around to starting the process yet. I had been in back and forth communication with them for weeks and they didn't even bother to let me know...not even when I asked them what happened and if it was okay to be on the account?

About a month later they gave my character 25k maplepoint and closed the ticket. Nothing more ever happened.

The second time around the same crap went on and, again, I was given only 25k maplepoints.

In both situations the value of what I lost was so insanely greater than the 25k maplepoints -- which weren't even useful to me since I couldn't gift them and had refused to remake a char on the same account that had been hacked - that I just became permanently disillusioned by the company as a whole.

Which is the reason I bring all of this up. I had played fairly and legitly and TWO times I had lost everything because of Nexon's mistakes and lack of security. To me that was unforgivable and ever since then I make no distinction between a hacker and a legit player. The only people I have an issue against are the people who hack accounts and the people who scam. If Nexon can't even take the time to try to reasonably correct a mistake that they have already accepted as their own...much less prevent it from happening not just again but to the same person again...then I don't value any rules they try to assert in game vs any personal decision anyone makes, for whatever reason, so long as it doesn't result in direct harm to anyone outside of Nexon. I couldn't care less because of what I've gone through about any sort of notion of cheating or hacking. I still apply such concepts in game so far as others peoples rules dictate them, not Nexon's (for example...I've run or been in a jr in some of the biggest guilds in Scania for the past 8 years. Some have these rules, some don't. I don't allow hackers if that's the rule in place - but I sure as crap am not gonna make a rule like that on my own, much less uphold it. lol.

In general, the best friends I've had in the entire game were the ones guilty of hacking. In my experience they're better friends than anyone claiming to value as a moral imperative any notion of being 'legit.' They're friends I've maintained for years and always intend to...and even when they're openly trashed here on Basil I keep coming across the fact that they're the ones actually willing to back up their friendship with actions that are often anything but easy for them to do - and the worst experiences I've had are with those who insult hackers. That's not to assign any value to either side...it's just to explain why I don't consider it to be a valid point of contention as far as gameplay or behaviour is concerned.

Sorry for ranting but I wanted to explain it all as clearly as I could so that it's understood and not endlessly intentionally misunderstood by people making up stupid strawman arguments that argue nothing nor prove anything and hold no actual merit or value.

Good= Have control over their characters and doesn't resort to cheating
Bad= Resort to cheating, unable to kill a relatively easy boss despite having maximum damage

good Mapler make friends.
bad Mapler make enemies.

[quote=roflthrower]I was waiting for you to post

I believe anyone is a good mapler as long as they can act socially acceptable and contribute to the maple community[/quote]

lol xD

Tis fun to entertain myself with various ways to word/say something simple so that it sounds far more complicated than it is - while still making sense, rofl.

[quote=ashleyattacked]I think a good player is distinguished from a bad player pretty simply as far as a game is concerned...

Good players are the ones who have experience, a bit of knowledge and all of that hinged around the ability to have not lost sight of who they are at core. Provided the core was good at the start.

As an equation...basically the biggest mistake and contributor to in game rudeness (and prolly decrease in a persons inherent rl value, as well) is a person thinking that their value has any inherent and fixed relationship to any other person *without* regard to any other fact about that other person - and then applying it to themselves in a vacuum without relation to the game as an impersonal phenomena - and applying it to themselves as they relate to person B. Your value only moves up in relation to the average of all players combined and standardized. For example: your value does not increase relative to other players just because you've played longer than person B. Your value only increases when you gain more points in your favour compared to an average of other players. The biggest converse relationship is making that mistake in your favour at the expense of others without any personal, subjective value of the others being considered relative to your own...and especially when the factors considered about others include anything to do with time played being valued independent of other factors, again as in a vacuum.

It's trite and cliche...but also hugely overlooked and not considered...your value has no meaning without its relation to the values of other people as well as the combined average of everyone. You can't be of value when everyone dislikes you. 10 mil range means nothing when the whole game wishes you were gone.

I say this not as an exercise in showing how I'm better or more prepared than anyone else...but because I would like to help others have a better early game experience than I had, than is prolly the average, and I'd like to stay a decent person/member of the community, if only because it helps with regard to almost everything else in the world from what I can deduce...and is thus a good phenomena to keep in mind and constantly holding yourself up against.

You have to balance all sides of the equation before you change any single one of them for good.[/quote]

I was waiting for you to post

I believe anyone is a good mapler as long as they can act socially acceptable and contribute to the maple community

I think a good player is distinguished from a bad player pretty simply as far as a game is concerned...

Good players are the ones who have experience, a bit of knowledge and all of that hinged around the ability to have not lost sight of who they are at core. Provided the core was good at the start.

As an equation...basically the biggest mistake and contributor to in game rudeness (and prolly decrease in a persons inherent rl value, as well) is a person thinking that their value has any inherent and fixed relationship to any other person *without* regard to any other fact about that other person - and then applying it to themselves in a vacuum without relation to the game as an impersonal phenomena - and applying it to themselves as they relate to person B. Your value only moves up in relation to the average of all players combined and standardized. For example: your value does not increase relative to other players just because you've played longer than person B. Your value only increases when you gain more points in your favour compared to an average of other players. The biggest converse relationship is making that mistake in your favour at the expense of others without any personal, subjective value of the others being considered relative to your own...and especially when the factors considered about others include anything to do with time played being valued independent of other factors, again as in a vacuum.

It's trite and cliche...but also hugely overlooked and not considered...your value has no meaning without its relation to the values of other people as well as the combined average of everyone. You can't be of value when everyone dislikes you. 10 mil range means nothing when the whole game wishes you were gone.

I say this not as an exercise in showing how I'm better or more prepared than anyone else...but because I would like to help others have a better early game experience than I had, than is prolly the average, and I'd like to stay a decent person/member of the community, if only because it helps with regard to almost everything else in the world from what I can deduce...and is thus a good phenomena to keep in mind and constantly holding yourself up against.

You have to balance all sides of the equation before you change any single one of them for good.

A good mapler doesn't just rely on P2W all the way through.

To go into more detail, i'm not saying P2W is bad, but if you're paying $2000 on the game at least put the account to good use and make some money back.

A bad mapler is someone who... P2W the entire way through or someone who complains about this game being P2W but doesn't understand theres hundreds of players who have made it to the top without paying top dollars.

Good mapler = doesn't hack/cheat/whatever, is relatively nice/welcoming/helping to others, plays the game for the sake of fun
Bad mapler = basically the ones that gets banned for partaking in in-game illegal activities and impatient/rude asshats who tend to make an ass out of themselves.

Maplers who spend way too much money for nx can be both good and bad maplers.

A good person (doesn't apply solely to maple) is someone who does what is needed to accomplish their goals without having to cheat or hurt others in the process. Imo, playing this game the right way will make you feel more accomplished in what you've done in the long run, as what accomplishment is there in cheating others. In case you can't tell I have no tolerance for scamming or cheating g'day to you all

having a certain ethic regarding the game (harassing, insulting, hacking, ksing ...) makes you a decent player, a pro player will solo cvel...

good maplers dont stream or make youtube videos about maplestory, exception is DaBoki and MakiTeMaki, for they are great maplers

Invested time in the game to legitimately improve their character & respects other players / helps those in need

People who can do jumpquests without raging.

Honestly though, just the players who make the best with what they've got so they can get better at what they do. The willingness and dedication to continue improving is what ultimately makes a better player. That's just my opinion though.
If buying NX is some people's way to get there, then good for them. The PB event doesn't really show much other than how well you know your way around the game to be able to level faster than others. Then you could have HS/kanna mules, or connections to help you get there. And other preparations like leveling guides and researching the events beforehand.
Don't think it's about being good or bad, but about dedicated or casual.

My definition of "good player" is a kind, friendly one who actually has skill.
$$$ dump capper with bad control = bad player.

@richaf:

By not seriously I was implying casual players that may log a few times a week at most and not those "you have been playing Mapl for more than 3 hours Nexin suggests you take a break" a day kinds of players.

[quote=betaboi101]Good players:
1. Have good control
2. Don't take Mapl so serious <3[/quote]

No matter what people say, most players take whatever game their playing seriously if they play it for more than 2 months.,

A bad player resorts to hacking, scamming and/or duping. I would add in kill stealing but that depends on the circumstances.
Otherwise, you're a good player regardless of your damage, looks, etc.

Good players:
1. Have good control
2. Don't take Mapl so serious <3

@richaf Wealth in the form of items, meso, or nx.
I should probably add, "generate wealth with minimal use of real currency."

@duriel123 What kind of wealth?

The ability to generate wealth by any means possible.

@hattysoopro This is true. It's like having a fast car but don't know how to drive properly.

Good players can hit cap damage by the time they are level 200.
Good players don't take longer than a week to level from 1-200.
Good players are able to solo Chaos Vellum by the time they reach 201.
Good players don't spend a dime on purchasing NX.

Character control for one. You can have 2 people, same class, one is 2-2m, the other 200k. But the lower range guy actually knows how to play their character to its fullest. That would make them a "better player" than the other. Despite what range and damage says.

[quote=richaf]I'm a speed reader, punctuation means nothing to me.[/quote]

You don't exist alone in this world. Words exist purely for communication; punctuation assists. It may mean nothing to you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

[quote=beradude4090]learn to use punctuation please. I almost ran out of breath[/quote]

I'm a speed reader, punctuation means nothing to me.

Honestly, although people don't always compensate me, and I always try very hard to include people in my SDH party, during 2x or otherwise, it isn't a horrible idea to receive compensation.

That being said, I often help people just because of my boredom and kindness of heart. Do I want compensation? Sure! If it's worthwhile!

But that doesn't mean I demand it, or even ask for it most of the time (for small things).

Be resourceful and conduct research before acting.

[quote=wall]good maplers do not beg others or complain about "how pay to win the game is/has gotten" or bring up how much better pre-bb was.[/quote]

I agree with the first points not the last. Pre-bb has a special place in many players' hearts.

However, I believe the latter of moral code: don't be an asshole and don't take other players belongings, play nice and share; don't fight with one another. keep your hands to yourself. don't bother people and be expecting of them to do things for you. pretty much don't be rude to other people.

Pretty basic things learned in pre-school/kindergarten.

@richaf: [url=http://sketchtoy.com/65782722]Started from the bottom now we here[/url]

Good maplers do not always want something in return for helping someone with even the littlest of things. For example, there was a BT who was only willing to party with you for the cube event if you pay them 100mil.

@skfun No post on basil is official anymore without you making a sketch.

[url=http://sketchtoy.com/65782656]Good maplers have fun[/url]