General

@wumbo Hey upon hearing your knowledge on shadower. What is your opinion on how shad vs db would be post fifth job? I know this isnt part of the thread and i apologize @serrebi456 but at what point would shad out dmg the db? My friend has told me only a shad with exceptionally higher range would be able to out dmg the db post fifth job. Is there any sort of numbers you can use? I just want to know if shad beats db post fifth job without dmg cap at the same range with nate.

@wumbo: I think he was referring to the V-patch to which it is nigh impossible to cap (since it was either removed or raised to a limit which is so high that players may temporarily touch it but never maintain it (and then the Oz rings were nerfed))

Also capping midnight carnival is only better than NATE for the time being because of the 120m/100m cap imposed on shadowers, where midnight carnival simply reigns supreme due to its hit's per second once capping/near capping. If you make a serious dojo attempt, you will realise it is far more beneficial to use assassinate over midnight carnival. In Dojo you deal 10% of your true damage. Dojo provides a better snapshot as to what would happen in the event of the cap being raised or removed.

@serrebi456: There is also another patch coming soon that first raises shadow partner cap to being the same cap as the other attacks AND shadowers will be able to cast meso explosion at any time (even mid animation of other attacks). This will greatly supplement our damage, regardless of the presence of a damage cap or not.

@wumbo thanks for the info, that's what I thought can't wait to start funding my new shad!

@serrebi456: Don't listen to him, he is an idiot. A capping midnight carnival shad would hit a lot more with assassinate. Lets assume there's no hypers, 138%=100m x8=800m so that would mean 627%=454m x3=1362(without shadow partner) with nate(without shadow partner). Assassinate is a 2 hit combo so there's another 700%=507m x2=1014m. In 2 hits mc does 1.6b damage while assassinate does 2.376b. With hyper boss/reinforce that goes up quite a bit, you gain stance, you have longer range, you attack faster.

@ziub: note quite sure what you mean? the whole problem with shad was that assassinate capped way too quickly, so then other classes could continue growing but shad would essentially stop until it could hit > 70m a line with carnival. but now that the cap isn't an issue, wouldn't shad still continue to hit the hardest? @_@

Well if the dmg cap is gone, the whole shad is better after capping kinda gets thrown out lol. After that I think NL/Phantom/DB take over.

Sweet, thanks! Saw some epic inspiring videos. Seems like shadower damage sort of drops of as you get higher and higher though. Even when I look for videos on youku, I tend to see more funded phantoms than Adventurer thieves. Any thoughts on that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUYogfagI4

the 3 characters in front of "5" in the title is "shadower" i believe