General

@bleute: Maybe you're special.

Why do I always feel good after I grind for 20 hours straight?

@stoker: I am not using evidence to mean irrefutable causation, and evidence doesn't have to lead to an irrefutable correlation to the validity of the proposition at hand. Evidence in so far as I'm using, and how people would use it, would mean there is a reasonable cause to try it out or investigate further, and that's why I suggested for people to try the experiences out. Basically there is a difference between evidence and irrefutable proof, and they don't have to be one and the same.

Also, I don't know if we just have different perspectives, but a lot of scientific study is based on experience, and personal experience is perhaps the greatest evidence for an individual, and also learning about the experiences of others can be helpful in gaining knowledge and learning about life.

Also, there isn't much that is irrefutable, even scientific studies.

@cocopuffs: Experiences do count as evidence. That's actually common sense. Let's say I have tried a drug and that it gave me explosive diarrhea, and I told you that studies have said that it causes explosive diarrhea. Would you say "oh well, since you didn't provide me any sources, and since that is your experience, I will take this drug because I want to"? Or would you look it up online?

I'm not your mother or father. I'm only providing information that may help people, and it's fine if you feel the way you do, but you could just as easily google the information.

It's true that you need to provide sources in academia to avoid plagiarism and give yourself credibility, but this isn't academia and I have provided a way to test the effects for yourself.

@cocopuffs: lolll damnn this is troublesome, we totally need that response man!! Calm down, sit down and go back to playing your beloved maple ok

@wellness: You are the one presenting the claim. What are YOUR sources?

Since "feelings" count as evidence, I feel like I've become dumber by engaging with you.

Google can provide you with anything you want it to, doesn't make it true.

Unless your next post contains links to the sources YOU used to present the claim, I won't be responding again.

@cocopuffs: They count as a type of evidence. If I have these experiences, others will also have them and can see for themselves if they have or will have the same experiences, and google provides multiple studies on the effects it has on the brain. It's easier and more believable if people look it them up themselves if they are interested and also see how they personally react to the experiences I have described. The main one would be the difference in reading a professionally written and edited novel which you would find on a top 10 list of works or authors, or playing a more difficult strategy game, as opposed to playing one of those easy repetitive grinding games like Maplestory for hours.

@wellness: oh! you used google! of course your information must be correct then! you are the one presenting the claim. the burden of proof is on you. I'm not going to do your research for you.

p.s. your anecdotal evidence and "feelings" don't count

@stoker: lol Yeah, the games can be fun and addicting. I kept coming back to Maplestory because of the way it looked. I then got on it and saw all of the negative stuff and didn't think it was worth it; now I don't plan on getting on it and wasting time. There are a lot of time-wasters that I need to cut back on. Though, for some people, it wouldn't even matter to them if their brains atrophied or something. It depends on what you want to do in life, and I think that's fine if the person is happy -- but a lot these games I believe honestly cause sadness and depression. We may even be able to, within the next couple decades, reverse the effects through treatment, but I personally would be safe about stuff like that and do what you can in the now; of course, if it would help.

@stoker: Haha Interesting. People really sometimes don't take these things seriously. Sometimes they don't trust the scientists, and in this case, there is a stigma surrounding videogames even though they are mainstream and/or growing. Also, regarding the classes, I felt there really isn't much distinction besides the way they kill, and so the class system was always kind of lackluster for me, and the classes with more supportish roles really weren't interactive like when you would see in an actual team-based game. That has nothing to do with my argument, though; I'm just saying my feelings. We do have different reasons to play, and Nexon probably has down to a science getting people to continue to play and addicted.

@cocopuffs: Hello, friend, I had used google to search for the information. I trust what I read since I have experience playing different games and doing different things, and I felt they changed my brain wiring in different ways, and I would suggest, if you are interested, to do your own research and see. The other things I have talked about can also be important. You can do other things which I said may have positively affected me or other players mentally and see if it affects you in the same way. It can help if you are aware of how different things affect you so you may be able to help yourself. Self-awareness is important.

I enjoy playing MapleStory. I will continue to enjoy playing MapleStory. Maple isn't the only game I play either. Also can you link sources for your claims?

@jbumsu: Oh, Unreal Tournament makes more sense then. xD And it's true not all Maplestory players are the same, but some of the things are more about the natural inclination toward the brain to do certain things, like atrophy, and that's something that can happen with small levels of the easy repetitive gameplay, and I would look at again how the game is structured to be played for hours (grinding, farming, events, etc.) and they want you to play for hours. Then what would make more sense? To continue to play Maplestory? Or to find another game that could benefit your brain and be rewarding at the same time -- and that has a casual 30min-1hour play time structure?

@wellness: @chopin: fair points, i was just trying to say that not all maplestory players are the same but i'm with you guys on those who are just too addicted and spend a fair amount of money where honestly the money you put in will never emit to an equal reward,I see your point though. Also im guessing UT = Unreal tournament which is a shooter similar to quake lol.

@jbumsu: I think if a person studies something more difficult, either mental or physical, and or does other mental tasks, it can off-set and prevent the mental effects and addiction. A menial level of gameplay should be fine then, but as I have said before, the game is geared toward hours of play, so it doesn't seem realistic that people would play for 30 minutes to an hour and also feel rewarded. Overwatch games don't last long, so you can play a few within an hour. It's also more mentally taxing. With the former two, you would be able to feel more rewarded after winning, which you would be able to accomplish in the matchmaking system. Of course, you would want to limit it to prevent addiction, and to reiterate, this may come more easily if you are the type of person who is used to studying and doing other mentally fortifying tasks like sports, strategy games, short bursts of hard 3d games, debate club, music etc. If you're not that type of person and would surely become addicted to maplestory and grinding games like it, I would safely suggest to stay away from them.
Also, I think you could do 4 hours or more like once or twice a week and it should be fine.
@stoker: Thank you for suggesting some games (Quake and Undertale(?). You do seem to have mental fortitude.
@chopin: Thank you. I think you pretty much are hitting the nail on the head, though I don't know how many people actually are addicted.
@kaxi: That person probably hasn't developed mental fortitude in the first place. xD Anyway, Bloodborne is also a great example of the type of 3d game I'm thinking of. You could play it for 30 minutes to an hour, it's difficult and requires focus and hand-eye coordination, and you can actually finish the game. That can help your brain.

@kaxi: the chance of that literally happening is way smaller than this

but is it healty when you want to kill yourself because you can't kill Ludwig in Bloodborne?

@jbumsu: 90% are too addicted man, they even say it themselves why they can't stop coming back... its like a drug that they need to get a dose of and most spend $ on marvel machine and all that crap for what?? useless results

Depends on the person. Not all are geared the same nor will have the same outcome as those who find a game (like maplestory) and become addicted to it. I personally came back because it still has a nostalgic feel to it and also i can spare the time since im currently on vaca. Some are mentally strong enough to pull out of it or know when to stop playing to pursue or do things they need to do. Some don't have the mental alarm in their brains to stop playing and focus on much more important things. What you said about 3D games and how maple can decrease some functions in your brain when you play is an interesting point but i doubt a person who plays casually is going to suffer from severe side effects(this is ofc just a specific audience). I play EASILY 10-30 hours of OW each week while in semester and out of semester but both games come to one conclusion, fun. All depends on what the player/person is looking to do either it be trying to hit 2bill-2bill damage or have fun, theres too many factors these days to lock into a generic outcome.

@stoker: wat u mean by quake and UT??

@wellness: right, they feel like they need to keep progressing

but honestly though, there isn't much there waiting for them lol i've been there

they are getting stronger for what? quicker kills ok but wheres the challenge in a 10 second boss kill??

they bossing for what? ok you can get mesos but you're already strong so whats the mesos for?

when i got to that point, it came to me that i definitely have been wasting my money and time for simply convenience and not fun

soo to you guys out there going for max damage and stuff, nothing really interesting awaits you but dissapointment

grindstory/damagestory/lagstory/younameitstory = fun?? think again

@chopin: Good question. If you look at it a the points I've made and look at it from a cause and effect type of thing, I think the things I have mentioned would compound and cause people to continue playing the game after they start and get into the RNG. It can all be related to psychology. In the beginning, it takes much less time to level, and so you are rewarded quickly, then it compounds and you play more, and by that time you are already used to it, your brain changes, and you are more inclined to play more. Then when you get into the RNG aspects, you are even more deeper into playing hardcore and so will continue to play because that's what you're used to and your brain has changed to accommodate the game structure. I think that's what it's related to.

I still don't get why people play this

I had way more fun playing rise of tomb raider than this, anyone would agree becuz there is challenge, intense combat, and mysteries to be solved

Anddddd then this garbage game, there is just nothing to offer but chores