General

[quote=cxggod]It teems to me that you're trying to objectify a life or put a price tag on it, in the sense that "if my income drops below xx amount I would rather deny them adequate health care," their pay grade is still very good and at that amount they can live a modest to wealthy lifestyle compared to the majority of people.
Also it seems I may have vastly underestimated the cost of med school in america since i'm used to Canadian prices which is at about $100,000 overall so what is the average cost med school (all four years) in America?[/quote]

Around 200k.

[quote=TrueAtheist]@aznseal The average doctor in Canada makes $202,000 a year, in Alberta it's $230,000. (Source: 2006 census)

The average U.S. doctor makes $100,000 - $145,000 a year. (Source: Department of Health and Labor)

Canada has universal healthcare and doctors are paid more.[/quote]

I'm referring to specialists, not primary care.

@aznseal The average doctor in Canada makes $202,000 a year, in Alberta it's $230,000. (Source: 2006 census)

The average U.S. doctor makes $100,000 - $145,000 a year. (Source: Department of Health and Labor)

Canada has universal healthcare and doctors are paid more.

THANK YOU.
No one wants to see how bad Obamacare is through a healthcare provider's perspective.

We are adding MILLIONS of people to our healthcare system and adding no new doctors or facilities.
If anything, more doctors than ever are doing what they can to retire early before Obamacare's full effects take place.

[quote=TrueAtheist]^This exactly.

The priorities of a few shouldn't take precedent over the priorities of the vast majority.

@aznseal They should have known the risk involved when becoming a doctor, they should have known what realistic salary they would be getting, they shouldn't have expected the world.[/quote]

The risk was non-existent until this bullcrap. Good thing specialists are refusing to see medicare patients. Real insurance or gtho.

[quote=Rozhin]You really think someone will waste like 8 years in school to study medicine because of a passion? If you do, then I am afraid that you might have some problems. The money is a huge part of why people become doctors.[/quote]

Nobody spends 8 years studying something unless they at least have somewhat of an interest in it.

If people who become doctor's are primarily concerned with money there are far easier ways to make a lot of money than spending nearly a decade studying medicine and putting yourself into debt.

It's their fault for being ignorant of other occupational opportunities.

[quote=aznseal]Wanting to save people and wanting money are not mutually exclusive, especially when you have an assload of debt/spent 8 years+ in school.

Are you really so naive that you think doctors do it solely for helping people? As in being a good Samaritan is their ONLY motivation? lol.[/quote]

No it shouldn't be their only motivation but it should definitely be their primary motivation.

There are teachers who get paid crap but still do it because they love their jobs, I know quite a few.

Also I think you're missing the point, nobody is saying [b]"doctors should get paid less"[/b] I don't know a single person who thinks that and I don't know a single political platform that advocates that. If doctor's end up getting paid a little less it's because the priority of 50 million without health insurance and their livelihood took precedence over a few doctor's who might have to return their new Lexus.

[quote=aznseal]No, because I can always change majors.

I'm angry that people I know are now essentially stuck between taking a huge pay cut or turning into a jackass and turn down medicare patients all together. Personally If I was a doctor, i'd choose the latter.

EDIT: @ZombieOverlord: Really?

1) They didn't because many current doctors didn't think a president with downs will get elected and push for this bill.
2) They chose a career path for it's stability
3) The world needs doctors which needs incentives because if doctors don't have a grotesquely high salary, then there is next to no incentive for staying in school for so long.[/quote]

There is no need for doctor's to have "grotesquely" high salaries, other countries that have full-fledged universal healthcare still have doctor's who are paid high salaries and they still have a lot of medical graduates pursuing becoming a doctor.

Quite frankly I don't want someone operating on me who is doing it just for the money, I want him or her to love their job and actually care about their profession.

The system works rather well in other countries and even though I can tell that doctors here don't really earn a lot and all it's still better this way. The old American system just isn't right and just wait one or two generations and people will be used to the new health system, they won't know it any diff and they'll be used to it so no more whining.

There are too many unnecessary procedures. Doctors will exit the market and there will be a right number of doctors left. Their salary won't be affected too much.

[quote=Aervas]I'd rather the entire physician community pissed off than millions of people deprived of a basic need.[/quote]

^This exactly.

The priorities of a few shouldn't take precedent over the priorities of the vast majority.

@aznseal They should have known the risk involved when becoming a doctor, they should have known what realistic salary they would be getting, they shouldn't have expected the world.

[quote=SleepyHobo]I love how Aznseal was countered and he lost this argument.[/quote]

Lol not at all. All of your arguments is basing on what you feel should happen when you're not the ones doing anything. It's like me saying that teachers should make less because all they do is "teach kids" and if they really loved their job, then money shouldn't matter.

I love how Aznseal was countered and he lost this argument.

[quote=ehnogi]Medical students will rack up tons of debt, and suffer through the toughest schools to learn how to save lives. They will work long hours throughout the day while struggling to pay their own basic needs.

And yet people still will want them to get paid less or treat people for free.

Society is just greedy. Doctors are the prestigious elite of society who happens to care about normal citizens.
Regardless of who they are, the ones who are paid more will always be scrutinized and targeted.[/quote]

Exactly! They're doing society a favor. Many people who choose to be doctors are competent enough to have majored in business and work at wall street.

Medical students will rack up tons of debt, and suffer through the toughest schools to learn how to save lives. They will work long hours throughout the day while struggling to pay their own basic needs.

And yet people still will want them to get paid less or treat people for free.

Society is just greedy. Doctors are the prestigious elite of society who happens to care about normal citizens.
Regardless of who they are, the ones who are paid more will always be scrutinized and targeted.

[quote=TheDudeAbides]I thank god everyday that their are still people in this world who aren't fueled to do good solely based on the money they will get.[/quote]

Spot on.

[quote=aznseal]Wanting to save people and wanting money are not mutually exclusive, especially when you have an assload of debt/spent 8 years+ in school.[/quote]

Once again. Not Obama's fault. Talk to the greedy colleges and state governments.
Obama extended the grants/loans for students.

[quote=SleepyHobo]The incentive should be your passion for wanting to save and help people.

The incentive should not be money, like what your after. From your past posts, you've lived in a rich life and now you're not getting what you want so you're complaining.[/quote]

Wanting to save people and wanting money are not mutually exclusive, especially when you have an assload of debt/spent 8 years+ in school.

Are you really so naive that you think doctors do it solely for helping people? As in being a good Samaritan is their ONLY motivation? lol.

[quote=aznseal]If you want to live in a country where there's no incentive to be a doctor, move to China and then tell me how good the health care is ^______________^[/quote]

The incentive should be your passion for wanting to save and help people.

The incentive should not be money, like what your after. From your past posts, you've lived in a rich life and now you're not getting what you want so you're complaining.

I thank god everyday that their are still people in this world who aren't fueled to do good solely based on the money they will get.

[quote=SleepyHobo]@aznseal: I visit a doctor because that's their job.

@the live better part.

I think the country's historical documents say different. They say we're all equal. Doctors chose this life of saving people.[/quote]

If you want to live in a country where there's no incentive to be a doctor, move to China and then tell me how good the health care is ^______________^

@aznseal: I visit a doctor because that's their job.

@the live better part.

I think the country's historical documents say different. They say we're all equal. Doctors chose this life of saving people.
Anyone who becomes a doctor for the money should lose their right to practice immediately.

Also talk to the greedy for-profit colleges charging so much for school. Tell them it costs to much to become a doctor.

[quote=HoboDeity]Someone's angry their future career just got downgraded.[/quote]

No, because I can always change majors.

I'm angry that people I know are now essentially stuck between taking a huge pay cut or turning into a jackass and turn down medicare patients all together. Personally If I was a doctor, i'd choose the latter.

EDIT: @ZombieOverlord: Really?

1) They didn't because many current doctors didn't think a president with downs will get elected and push for this bill.
2) They chose a career path for it's stability
3) The world needs doctors which needs incentives because if doctors don't have a grotesquely high salary, then there is next to no incentive for staying in school for so long.

[quote=aznseal]Who do you visit if you need medical attention?

EDIT: Doctors deserve to live better than people who only spend 4 years in college and/or drop out.[/quote]

They knew what they were getting into, I have little sympathy for them.

Someone's angry their future career just got downgraded.

[quote=SleepyHobo]He chose the expensive house. He chose the fancy car. He chose to spend thousand upon thousands to become a doctor.[/quote]

Who do you visit if you need medical attention?

EDIT: Doctors deserve to live better than people who only spend 4 years in college and/or drop out.

[quote=aznseal]How so.[/quote]

He chose the expensive house. He chose the fancy car. He chose to spend thousand upon thousands to become a doctor.

My parents combined make less money than that doctor. They can afford a mortgage on a decent home, have loans to pay off, and still have money left over to spend. His uncle didn't save and spend properly.

[quote=ZombieOverlord]That's his fault, really.[/quote]

How so.

[quote=MomoAbc]I love all of these ignorant "So what, they make the $$"

Sure, they make lots. But, let me ask you guys this, do you know any one who is a doctor, personally?
Most likely not.

My uncle is a physician and makes well over 85,000 after taxes. Although, he has nearly no spending room. He still has a house to pay off, a car, and the part that most idiots over look. The HUGE loans he has to pay back. Even three years after becoming a physician, he still has 750,000 to pay back[/quote]

That's his fault, really.

doctors are people

No one asks the doctors because they are getting rich either way.

Cuz the doctors make hella money so most of them have better lives than us.