General

i don't use hs when i play phantom
i remember one time the party asked for it, i said "hit higher than me and i'll hs or i can just leech and you guys get ksed"
then i get kicked and i ksed them and tried to invited me back, too bad i wasn't even there to train.

I get bishops for HS. If I can't find one I let a phantom leech because I know that feel bro.

[quote=username0]In this whole thread, no one understands that it is up to the user how to play a phantom. If I wanted to support, I would have made a bishop.[/quote]

So. Damn. Selfish.

Hsing is a universal problem both bishops and phantoms have faced. Although if you are gonna be in a party to train together, even if I were to train solo I would still hs myself. Holy symbol isn't a luxury all classes have and if you have the opportunity to use it then why not. Yes the nerf did hinder our ability to support others like before but you need to take adversity in stride. Phantoms aren't that gifted on the offensive side anymore with the nerf on skills and like you said, you consider your damage to be good so why not live up to the phantom name and be versatile. At the end of the day the decision is yours and if people still bother you then lead your own party.

@username0: As a person who mains a Phantom...

Suck it up. We're a support class with some versatility. Yes, we can attack. But with that said, we're still a support class. The point of stealing skills is to steal some buffs (party ones) to make everybody's damage go higher. HS is included in this. Not only does HS benefit you, (it's a PERMANENT 1.5x exp coupon), it benefits others. So, at LHC, when you can't find a party or get kicked because you don't have HS, then that's your own fault for not realizing that HS not only helps others, it also helps you; and, Phantoms are a support class.

Just because you have Holy Symbol, doesn't mean you have to hang on a rope all day, either. You can attack. We're not some total support class that can't do any damage. We're a pretty strong class (in my biased opinion), just because you're HSing the party doesn't mean you can't attack.

[url=http://global.hidden-street.net/character/class/fighter]Duration was buffed recently too[/url]

Look, we are at a shortage of bishops right now because everyone is bandwagoning the new classes. When trying to leech my guild and friends on their Lumi or Kaiser, we cannot find a bishop. Sometimes, we're lucky enough to find a willing bishop/phantom in alliance but more often than not, we need to add randoms. If you want to be a Phantom who doesn't HS then fine, we'll find one that will because honestly, I never need an attacker.

Deal with it and use Holy Symbol whenever you can.
Holy Symbol not only benefits your party, but it benefits YOURSELF as well. More EXP = Less time spent when training.
Even if you were a godly attacker, Holy Symbol still increases your training rate by giving you more EXP.
It doesn't take that long to get on a rope to cast a buff.

@ClassOf12: no rage gives 20 dark clarity gives 30
EDIT: nvm just found out rage gives 30
i feel stupid now

[quote=Regatzopunk]I get you I mean I like to use HS but i understand that you might not. I don't like using rage when I can use dark clarity,[/quote]

Rage is literally the same attack buff with a shorter casting animation than clarity
Also:

[quote=slimepudding]Don't worry about using combo attack then... just hs. It benefits 6 people instead of yourself[/quote]

[quote=username0]I love my phantom very much, and I like the play style. My main phantom (not listed on basil) is close to 200, and I've noticed a few things from training...
Every time I join a party, whether it has space for more people or not, expects me to use hs even when I tell them I don't have it. They proceed to telling me to go steal hs, but I don't want to do that. If I use hs, I'll have to buff about every 70 seconds and my damage will be lower because I have to switch out a skill for it. In the few times I do agree to using hs temporarily, the leader makes no effort to finding a bishop because we "already have hs." Another time, a mercedes joined my party and demanded me for hs without looking at our party to see that we had a bishop. It seems people continue to look at phantoms as replacements for bishop even with the stolen buffs duration nerf.
The point is that not all phantoms want to use hs, and we shouldn't be expected to use it. Just because we have the capability of using hs doesn't mean we must use it. After all, it's our characters and no one should be telling us what skills to use. However, it seems every party invites a phantom and expects hs from him/her. What ever happened to versatility?

What are your thoughts on this issue?[/quote]

I totally agree, I mean yeah HS might me better for everyone and you can say I'm selfish but a phantom doesn't have HS he can steal it but it is not a skill he has, thus a bishop can use it and all its other skills and suffer no penalty but a phantom will. Yeah I get that HS might make everyone level faster but if the point of the game is to have fun and my vision of fun is to see high numbers, or to use fancy skills, or to have a higher range, or simply to go around killing monsters with a lot of different attacks, rather than to spam just one, then that is what I will do. The point to many is not to get to 200 as fast as possible. I get you I mean I like to use HS but i understand that you might not. I don't like using rage when I can use dark clarity, the point is phantom is a very versatile class and we should pick our own skills, sadly the community is selfish and you should stick to only partying with people who understand you. Good Luck

hs is the only reason phantoms are wanted

[quote=GlitterPumas]And for that reason you don't deserve a spot in a party when other classes could easily out damage you.
The only use you have is to HS.[/quote]

... Phantoms are pretty high up there in terms of DPS. I don't know what's up with you, but I'd be hard pressed to out damage a Phantom...
And no, HS isn't the ONLY thing they're good for. That's an extremely narrow-minded perception of one class. Going by that, us Buccs are ONLY good for SI, which isn't true at all. We're decent attackers, and if Buccs are decent, then Phantoms will be even better at attacking.

OT: Just do what you wanna do, mate. People will yell and scream at you for HS. Tell them to get a Bishop. If not, then just leave the party and find another one that's willing to accept you (join a guild and party with them!). It all comes down to this: You have access to HS, they don't. If you're not willing to HS, then their (and your) loss. Eventually, they'll either kick you (which would be dumb if you're a good attacker), or find a bishop.

[quote=username0]I'm a fully attacking phantom and I do decent damage (50k range). Why should I go around hsing people when I can be attacking? With this duration reduction, it's even more difficult to keep everyone buffed.[/quote]

hs, and then attack.

[quote=fungusbrain]Since Phantoms came out, they've made Bishops almost completely undesired. Now it's time for you to feel the same fate.[/quote]

Feel the same fate? I believe that only applies to the phantoms that replaced bishops from the start. Since phantoms were released, I didn't use hs except in in 3rd job solo training. No parties and replacing involved in there.

Off topic : I'm totally reading this thread out of order.

I just get pissed when they spam HS PL0x while the 30 second cd is on...

If you want to play your class your own way, don't join a party...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

Stop complaining,Either hs , find a party that already has a bishop, or try a new class...

As a 200 Bishop and a 200 Phantom, I can tell you it's way easier to party as an HSing Phantom.

When you're a Phantom and you are HSing, it opens up the party slot to another damage dealer. Bishops are pretty weak in comparison and if you have someone who can do actual damage AND HS, it's faster leveling. Another DD in the party over a Bishop would mean faster kills. Sacrificing some of your damage would make a huge difference to the entire party.

It's not really a hard thing to ask, and you certainly shouldn't be offended by it. It's just more efficient for everyone, including yourself and your EXP.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

I'm not saying its not annoying to see people in the party saying "HS please." I know this more than most people since I'm both a Bishop and a Phantom. But I suck up my pride and just do it because I know I'll be benefitting more in the end than I would if I didn't have it.

[quote=BlueDemonKyuubi]He should be permitted to use the class the way he wants to, though. By the logic you've been using back and forth, parties should get rid of all non-OP classes excluding the HS-mule. That's definitely how parties should work.[/quote]

Thank you! I couldn't have said that better myself.

[quote=darkrayz442]But it still does affect level-ing speed which was your point.[/quote]
Maxing other skills increase leveling speed WAY more than MW
Nothing increases leveling speed more than HS

[quote=Exumaii]@darkrayz442: There's a difference because Holy Symbol=faster leveling. MW does affect leveling a bit (damage), but not as much as HS does. Plus, one of the advantages of stealing it is you don't have to find more members, and you can train on your own with HS.[/quote]

But it still does affect level-ing speed which was your point.

[quote=ShikaiZX]70 seconds? Thought it was reduced to 120 seconds.[/quote]

It's 70 seconds for me because I like to buff before it runs out. I get peeved when I see "hs please".

[quote=muncher123]if it is [b]USE[/b]less then why do you bother [b]USING[/b] it?[/quote]
I don't have a phantom? I have no control over who my party leader adds? What is your point?

[quote=GlitterPumas]You are a useless class just shut up and HS[/quote]

if it is [b]USE[/b]less then why do you bother [b]USING[/b] it?

@darkrayz442: There's a difference because Holy Symbol=faster leveling. MW does affect leveling a bit (damage), but not as much as HS does. Plus, one of the advantages of stealing it is you don't have to find more members, and you can train on your own with HS.

So, now you feel how bishops felt. I have 2 bishops and it's basically that but as you said:

[quote=username0]If I wanted to support, I would have made a bishop.[/quote]
There are bishops who are really good attackers, people still expect them to HS. Why?

[quote=username0]Just because we have the capability of using hs[/quote]
There you have it.

Shut up and HS. If you don't wanna, just go and solo stuff.

We, adventurers, should be complaining, not you.

Also

[quote=fungusbrain]Since Phantoms came out, they've made Bishops almost completely undesired. Now it's time for you to feel the same fate.[/quote]

Since Phantoms came out, they've made Bishops almost completely undesired. Now it's time for you to feel the same fate.

[quote=Exumaii]Why would you not even have HS? It increases level gain largely. If you can hit 50k, you can probably sacrifice a buff to increase the leveling of not only your party, but you. Just sit back and watch as your numbers roll in.[/quote]

By that logic classes without party skills should max mw first because it benefits the whole party.

[quote=drezzt]Whoops, I didn't think of that.
Anyway, point is, if you stick to a belief, you're gonna have some haters.
If you complain about haters, you're gonna get more haters.[/quote]
You're right about that. Despite all the haters, I'm still going to stick with being a pure attacking phantom. I'm going to see how this thread goes and then lock it in a few hours. There's no point in arguing with all these ignorant people.

Why would you not even have HS? It increases level gain largely. If you can hit 50k, you can probably sacrifice a buff to increase the leveling of not only your party, but you. Just sit back and watch as your numbers roll in.

Put Combo Attack in 4th job slot hopefully its level 20 if not 10 is still good ,
And still able to use hs, i think , am i right?

[quote=drezzt]Yep, here's the problem. People want HS. You, by your own choice, decide you don't want to use it.
There's a demand, but no supply. So why would they want to keep you around?
These days, there are less and less bishops than there are phantoms anyway, so people will look for phantoms.
Why would a party look for holy symbol if they already have it? The party would rather fight than keep hunting for another HSer.
You don't simply find a bishop today.
If you're gonna complain about this, at least think before you speak.

One more IMPORTANT thing. WHY in the world would you have an attacking skill in your 3rd job impeccable memory? Chain lightening, hurricane, assassinate, those are all 4th job skills that are absolutely superior to the 3rd job attacking skills. Just use those.[/quote]

Uhh you know he could be using an attack buff like combo attack?

@MeMagicalPie
This man knows what he's sayin

Wow this guy must be a jett in disguise

In this whole thread, no one understands that it is up to the user how to play a phantom. If I wanted to support, I would have made a bishop.

@username0: I've read this entire thread. You're making it seem like bishops are plentiful. I have a phantom, semi-funded him. No it's not selfish considering phantoms stand to be better attackers than the average bish you'll find at LKC. If your range is in fact 50k then you probably outdamage a bishop. You're probably going to say "kick a weaker member then" no that doesn't aide the party any because at that point what does the bish have to offer? You already have HS and their Adv Bless wouldn't exactly be at the highest level now would it? Most people dont need heal or rez at LKC (unless you flat out suck at this game).

So you're still selfish and dont want to do what's best for the party.

[quote=username0]And yet again, another person can't read. Even parties with slots for more people don't try to find a bishop. I can also use the same argument against you : isn't it selfish of the leader to tell a phantom to use hs, even when s/he can just get a bishop? I'd like you see all of you make a phantom, fund it, and play it yourselves.[/quote]
Well apparently they don't want to add what they would most likely consider a weak bishop and added you. Cope with it and switch out one skill for hs and attack.

[quote=username0]And yet again, another person can't read. Even parties with slots for more people don't try to find a bishop. I can also use the same argument against you : isn't it selfish of the leader to tell a phantom to use hs, even when s/he can just get a bishop? I'd like you see all of you make a phantom, fund it, and play it yourselves.[/quote]
Complain some more, nothing is going to change. It is funny seeing a phantom who has the opportunity to steal other classes skills crying when it is the explorers who deserve the right to complain. Phantoms are so useless

@username0
i heard theres a glitch where u can put hs on ur 1st job tab

[quote=username0]As I said before, my range isn't "crappy" per say. I outdamage most of my party members.

@ I have a little over 50k range. It's higher than what most people I've come across have.[/quote]

Well I'd just tell them straight up .. No, I won't HS find a bishop. If they say they don't need you just find some where else. Better yet, make your own parties.

[quote=KingsGlory]You sound incredibly selfish and should stick to solo training if you want to do things YOUR way. You do what benefits the entire party the most, not what you want. If that means HS so the entire party's EXP gain is increased then so be it. I doubt you kill fast enough to justify not using HS.[/quote]

And yet again, another person can't read. Even parties with slots for more people don't try to find a bishop. I can also use the same argument against you : isn't it selfish of the leader to tell a phantom to use hs, even when s/he can just get a bishop? I'd like you see all of you make a phantom, fund it, and play it yourselves.

@username0 HS ME NAO!

Theres no I in team, if you really despise using HS that much go solo things.

[quote=username0]Some parties that aren't even full don't try to invite a bishop just because they have a phantom already. Clearly, they see phantoms as replacements for bishops.[/quote]

Just tell people to come to you for hs

[quote=username0]You're all missing the point...
The phantom is MY character and what skills I use should not be influenced by what other people want. I'm an attacker, just like other classes. It's entirely my choice of what to use.[/quote]

You sound incredibly selfish and should stick to solo training if you want to do things YOUR way. You do what benefits the entire party the most, not what you want. If that means HS so the entire party's EXP gain is increased then so be it. I doubt you kill fast enough to justify not using HS.

Seriously? You just dusted off the years old issue that bishops have always had. Just because they are capable of using HS doesnt mean they have too. Really, we have no sympathy for a phantom.

[quote=GlitterPumas]And for that reason you don't deserve a spot in a party when other classes could easily out damage you.
The only use you have is to HS

I don't understand how hard that is to understand. Sure your character may be versatile but now that phantoms are supposedly crappy your class is no longer considered as an attacker but a support class.[/quote]

As I said before, my range isn't "crappy" per say. I outdamage most of my party members.

@twopointonefour: I have a little over 50k range. It's higher than what most people I've come across have.

Do you have a garbage range at your level? I kinda remember the low range phantoms being on HS duty.