KMST KMST 1.2.472 Wind Archer II, BGMs

[quote=PotatoCat]Oh come on >.<

Thanks for complaining, those who whined. Wish for a dang revamp of your own class, not nerfs of others.

I mean come on, let's compare them to Xenons who are already out.

Wind Archer info courtesy of VerrKol.

Wind Archer // Xenon
Crit rate 45% + 20% SE // 40%, can make use of Decent/Real SE

Attack +180 (+15 second wind) // 80 att (huge difference here I'll admit)
40% damage // 50% + 30% boss damage + 70% (Shadow Partner) (kinda more than makes up for that 100 attack, doesn't it?)
12% dex // passive 110 of each stat
25% PDR // 30% PDR
+3 weapon speed (fastest with a normal bow) // +2 weapon speed

+1500 hp // 1000 HP
20% hp // 30% HP
+1k def/mdef // 400 def/mdef
20% avoid // a hell of a lot more than 20% avoid
25% status resist // 0%? No clue how Multilateral works
30% dodge // not sure but realistically it's probably a hell of a lot more. It's definitely at least a 40% chance if you [i]don't just plain avoid an attack to begin with[/i]
(another 30% not sure if avoid or dodge)
20% damage reduction + 20% from Emerald Dust // 0%

+35 speed (+20 max), 15 jump // 20 speed (+40 max), 10 jump

250% hurricane (+10% single target) // 300% Blade Dancing, or 450% x 6 30% PDR snipe
with an additional 20% boss, 20% damage, 20% PDR from hypers // 20% damage from hypers

And this isn't even including the Multilateral bonuses, which knowing Nexon means if you have equal AP in everything and are level 200 you probably get every bonus and it probably all stacks. Yeah, Xenon doesn't get trifling whim, but aegis system, triangle formation, and pinpoint rockets are pretty close. And Xenons get a massive damage monster-buff-removal Bind![/quote]
Xenon's PDR is 40% from Offensive Matrix + if you use Snipe with hyper skill pdr buff it's another 40% to a grand total of 80% pdr
Supply System gives 20% All stat at max
Here is what multilateral gives at 200; 60% Stance, 60% Avoid, 60%Status Resistance, 60% Total Damage
Opartz Code give another whooping 50% Total Damage and 30% boss damage and it's nearly spammable you can just use Extra Supply and use Gravity Support to easily gain supply back.
and Xenon bind doesn't remove buffs anymore "never did when it arrived to KMS"

Source: I have a Xenon

@bowmushro0m: I counted 16-17.

Just use Orange Mushroom, Max translates amazingly

[quote=CaptCandy]I just recounted the triflings on the screen at zakum for 1 second, and there were 12-20 before the nerf. Afterwards, it'll be 10-17 hits from trifling per second.[/quote]

okay, again, it doesn't work like that xd you might as well try counting the amount of arrows ishtar fires as well

[quote=bowmushro0m]"up to 5 arrows" is what you read, it's assumed that it can be less[/quote]

I just recounted the triflings on the screen at zakum for 1 second, and there were 12-20 before the nerf. Afterwards, it'll be 10-17 hits from trifling per second.

[quote=Mirabosh]Doesn't triffling wind always shoot 5 arrows? Why would it be one arrow max per monster if sky song can only hit 4 monsters? Beside, there's so many arrows and projectiles coming out of a WA's bow you can't track them all, you'd need like a thousand frame per seconds slowed down.
I don't know if it's the translation or even in Korean the skill descriptions are confusing but from what I read triffling wind shoots 5 arrows no matter how many monsters you're attacking, and if you're only hitting one the arrows hit twice.[/quote]

"up to 5 arrows" is what you read, it's assumed that it can be less

[quote=CaptCandy]@bowmushro0m: So you're saying one arrow hits twice?

I observed the arrows in the videos, and for each arrow, it hits 1 damage.

The hyper skill allows two arrows to be casted onto one target/trifling wind.[/quote]

Doesn't triffling wind always shoot 5 arrows? Why would it be one arrow max per monster if sky song can only hit 4 monsters? Beside, there's so many arrows and projectiles coming out of a WA's bow you can't track them all, you'd need like a thousand frame per seconds slowed down.
I don't know if it's the translation or even in Korean the skill descriptions are confusing but from what I read triffling wind shoots 5 arrows no matter how many monsters you're attacking, and if you're only hitting one the arrows hit twice.

@bowmushro0m: So you're saying one arrow hits twice?

I observed the arrows in the videos, and for each arrow, it hits 1 damage.

The hyper skill allows two arrows to be casted onto one target/trifling wind.

[quote=CaptCandy]I thought trifling only hits twice per attack when activated, because I counted the number of arrows casted when he was soloing zak by himself, and it was about 10-11 trifling whims per second before the nerf.[/quote]

it hits twice per attack, as in the arrow hits once, but two attacks hit. and you can't count triffling whim xD it's around 20 per second, without the double attack

[quote=bowmushro0m]hurricane is 8.33
triffilng is actually 2-10
and stormbringer is just roughly 2 arrows per second

it comes out to an average of 38.52, and potentially 52.5[/quote]

I thought trifling only hits twice per attack when activated, because I counted the number of arrows casted when he was soloing zak by himself, and it was about 10-11 trifling whims per second before the nerf.

[quote=PotatoCat]Says the Kaiser f3.

Besides, where the hell did someone come up with 52.5?

Sky song's probably 8.3, like hurricane (because it'd be pretty dumb if it was more). Let's assume a 50% chance to activate trifling whim (with the 10% hyper and post nerf) and an average of 3 arrows each time it procs (1-5 arrows), as well as storm bringer (30% chance).

Since I'm going to go ahead and assume trifling whim doesn't activate storm bringer, and vice versa, that's 8.3 + (8.3 x .5 x 3) + (8.3 x .3) = 23.24 hits per second on average. They only activate when it specifically says you're attacking. Like, AFA doesn't have a chance to activate more AFAs (that'd be hilarious though)[/quote]

hurricane is 8.33
triffilng is actually 2-10
and stormbringer is just roughly 2 arrows per second

it comes out to an average of 38.52, and potentially 52.5

[quote=Mirabosh]I'm sorry, what? You're complaining because your precious wind archer only hit 52.5 time per second now? ONLY?[/quote]

Says the Kaiser f3.

Besides, where the hell did someone come up with 52.5?

Sky song's probably 8.3, like hurricane (because it'd be pretty dumb if it was more). Let's assume a 50% chance to activate trifling whim (with the 10% hyper and post nerf) and an average of 3 arrows each time it procs (1-5 arrows), as well as storm bringer (30% chance).

Since I'm going to go ahead and assume trifling whim doesn't activate storm bringer, and vice versa, that's 8.3 + (8.3 x .5 x 3) + (8.3 x .3) = 23.24 hits per second on average. They only activate when it specifically says you're attacking. Like, AFA doesn't have a chance to activate more AFAs (that'd be hilarious though)

I'm sorry, what? You're complaining because your precious wind archer only hit 52.5 time per second now? ONLY?

@CaptCandy: Might be difficult, maybe finding one from the patch prior, extractions seem to indicate there are no changes to Hilla.

[quote=twopointonefour]Rank 1 Gloves give % Total damage as well, making them give much more % boss than you think since they stack additively.

Hilla; I can't really give any figures, I can't find any, I assume it's still got 50% PDR and its Physical strong attribute in the Unlimited series of patches. It really isn't proof enough for me anyway.[/quote]

I know, I calculated for that already. The WA had Rank 1 gloves in the Zakum fight, so his damage was vastly increased compared to his damage at Hilla.
Also, we need to confirm that Hilla still has Physical Strong attribute, by another video of this patch of KMST with a different job fighting both Zakum and Hilla.

@airforce1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNVoQn3mWhY&list=UUe4bp913me8d5JcoskiTfsQ&index=11
here it is at 1:42 on hilla

might want to go over the zak videos, I'm too lazy right now~

[quote=CaptCandy]That said, he would get an additional 40% damage against bosses on the gloves.

Now, we have three conclusions:
A) Hilla doesn't have Physical Resist but increased Physical Defence
B) Hilla's Physical Resist was decreased
C) Elemental Expert makes WA skills neutral.[/quote]

Rank 1 Gloves give % Total damage as well, making them give much more % boss than you think since they stack additively.

Hilla; I can't really give any figures, I can't find any, I assume it's still got 50% PDR and its Physical strong attribute in the Unlimited series of patches. It really isn't proof enough for me anyway.

cry me a river

@ketchup11 Ah now I understand what you mean. I'll have to review the videos more carefully, but I suspect he didn't use Pinpoint on either boss. It would really throw a wrench in the math if he used it on one, but not the other.

@OldAura His point is that Nexon should stop doing themed updates to classes and instead revamp each class archetype at the same time that way there's no lag time between the new OP class and the older classes that get revamped. This way the old classes aren't shafted for 3-6months waiting around for revamps to make them competitive.

[quote=MyTiramisu]@OldAura There was no need to nerf them. Compare them to any other newly released class, they are still weaker and yet they get nerfed. A better solution would've been to release them along with a massive buff for other archers.[/quote]

I don't see why considering the more recent patches are about the Cygnus Knights rather than Archers.

[quote=MyTiramisu]@bluebomber24 No, that's what you stated. Read my posts again. What I stated was that because Xenon can be placed in the 'very strong' rank, and because WA do not do close to their damage, therefore WA should only be placed in the 'strong' rank. Perhaps you misunderstood my English, my 'WA are not very strong' refers to the response I got before. It doesn't mean i'm saying WA are not that strong, it means i'm saying WA are not very strong like Xenons, they are just strong.[/quote]

I understood you completely. Ketchup11 summarzied my "opinion."

[quote=MyTiramisu]I feel that archers deserve to be powerful for being so weak for so long.[/quote]
I don't see many (adventurer) warriors who were overjoyed that kaiser is completely OP, even when they're still weak. � Is one class of each branch being OP considered balanced? I don't understand...
[quote=MyTiramisu]And no, they were not VERY strong. [/quote]
If sp's dps charts are an estimate, they would have placed 3rd. Xenon is stronger in the actual game due to using 3 stats. and yes, spiral vortex would have been one of the strongest skills in the game.

[quote=MyTiramisu]because Xenon can be placed in the 'very strong' rank, and because WA do not do close to their damage, therefore WA should only be placed in the 'strong' rank. Perhaps you misunderstood my English, my 'WA are not very strong' refers to the response I got before. It doesn't mean i'm saying WA are not that strong, it means i'm saying WA are not very strong like Xenons, they are just strong.[/quote]
since when did 'strong' and 'very strong' become standard units of measurement? It's all relative. �

You're saying wind archers did not deserve a nerf because they aren't the absolute strongest? � �
keep in mind this is a nerf, but stil KMST. � And xenon hasn't received a nerf yet, and you should know what happened to kms angelic busters...

Blabla wall of rant that makes no sense etc

@airforce1:
I was figuring it mattered because I didn't see him use it at zakum, only hilla. � �

[quote=MyTiramisu]@bluebomber24 No, that's what you stated. Read my posts again. What I stated was that because Xenon can be placed in the 'very strong' rank, and because WA do not do close to their damage, therefore WA should only be placed in the 'strong' rank. Perhaps you misunderstood my English, my 'WA are not very strong' refers to the response I got before. It doesn't mean i'm saying WA are not that strong, it means i'm saying WA are not very strong like Xenons, they are just strong.[/quote]

^^^ Your a Bit Confusing Brah.

To sum it up, he's saying they (Wind Archers) are Strong. But Not OPED. ( Like Zenon)

@bluebomber24 No, that's what you stated. Read my posts again. What I stated was that because Xenon can be placed in the 'very strong' rank, and because WA do not do close to their damage, therefore WA should only be placed in the 'strong' rank. Perhaps you misunderstood my English, my 'WA are not very strong' refers to the response I got before. It doesn't mean i'm saying WA are not that strong, it means i'm saying WA are not very strong like Xenons, they are just strong.

@airforce1
@bluebomber24

i meant to say wind archers. same thing.
but yeah, ...gm power

@MyTiramisu: Your simply stating that since WA isn't the strongest they are not very strong. That is illogical.

@bowmushro0m
What's your point, I am not talking about BMs at all.

@ketchup11 How does Pinpoint Pierce affect anything differently? It should be a flat %damage buff that would cancel out. My impression is that Pally's do NOT ignore physical resist and their elemental decrease only applies to elemental resistances.

@CaptCandy Nothing ever happened to Hilla's physical resist o.o It's still there.

@MyTiramisu That is just his unique brand of sarcasm. Don't take it personally; he does it to everyone. While I would like WA to be OP for a while, if only because I've never mained a truly OP class, I can't say they deserve it. I'd much prefer class balance, but that doesn't seem to be an option with Nexon.

@bowmushro0m But but they may actually have the best mobbing in the game... Vortex puts out some truly impressive damage.

We'll just have to wait and see what hits KMS proper.

@bluebomber24 How is it illogical? The other person said that WA were very strong, I disagreed and said that Xenon can be considered very strong (OP) and that WA were not as strong. How is it illogical to buff up UP classes rather than nerf classes that weren't hitting the OP point.

Edit: @Above Okay. Go exaggerate my point without even understanding the context that I was saying it in.
Not gonna respond anymore. Biased views and responses makes this a waste of time.

[quote=bluebomber24]@MyTiramisu: Cuz its illogical. But I guess ppl have the right to illogical opinions.[/quote]

rujin. just face it. we suck. i mean we don't have the attacking power of xenon, the status resist of kaiser, the MP of luminous, the damage potential of angelic buster, the speed of Jett, the HP of dark knights, the mob damage of sairs, the buffing power of bishops, and the banning power of gm's. we're total garbage.

@MyTiramisu: Cuz its illogical. But I guess ppl have the right to illogical opinions.

@bluebomber24: Jeesus. Okay look. Were people screaming that they were too OP? No, because compared to many classes, lumi/kaiser/evans/arans/dual blades/post-hyper DS they weren't super strong.
Why is everyone judging my opinion?
They were not OP, they were strong, but not strong enough to have a nerf. Sure they seem too danm strong to be an archer but really, that's just because archers are too danm weak and instead of nerfing a not OP class, we should buff the UP classes.

[quote=MyTiramisu]@ketchup11:
I feel that archers deserve to be powerful for being so weak for so long. And no, they were not VERY strong. Compare them to xenon, strong but not nearly as much as it. Yes I compare them to xenon because as I said before, comparing them to a weak class is pointless.[/quote]

Comparing them to one class that happens to be top number #1 best class atm, and then pass judgment. OK >_>

@ketchup11:
I feel that archers deserve to be powerful for being so weak for so long. And no, they were not VERY strong. Compare them to xenon, strong but not nearly as much as it. Yes I compare them to xenon because as I said before, comparing them to a weak class is pointless.

@MyTiramisu:
who says new/etc classes have to be strong, aka notably stronger than existing classes in this case?
all that does is create more "weak" classes and promote power creep.

WAs also came out VERY strong, and they're still respectably strong after the nerf.

@AckarRed: I consider them like a new class. Any class that receives heavy revamp/a new class always comes out strong whereas Wind Archers did not come out that strong so I believe that their nerf was unjust. People shouldn't be comparing them to BMs because it's a known fact that they are weak.

@MyTiramisu What does Wind Archers have to do with the newer classes?

@OldAura There was no need to nerf them. Compare them to any other newly released class, they are still weaker and yet they get nerfed. A better solution would've been to release them along with a massive buff for other archers.

[quote=MyTiramisu]Guess archers will never get to shine.[/quote]

Archers have had their times. I'm just glad they're balancing them out compared to Bowmasters tbh, it seemed like they destroyed you guys.

Wtf weaker than TBs 1v1 again.

Guess archers will never get to shine.

[quote=PotatoCat]I chose Xenon because it was a class that's already been through the KMSt -> KMS transition. As they are now, they're just as good if not better than the KMSt Wind Archer.[/quote]
Angelic Buster made it past the KMSt -> KMS phase and then was nerfed into the ground (KMS-wise).

@CaptCandy: my bad.

Pretty sure A is a no.

[quote=bluebomber24]?Elemental Expert: Your mastery over the elements decreases all your attacking skills' elemental properties by 100%. This skill is unlocked after your fourth job advancement.?

I think airforce did a calc or something that shows that they are not inhibited by it.[/quote]

Actually, I was the one behind preliminary calculations: [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2598653/3#comments_list]in Airforce1's thread[/url].

@TwoPointOneFour: Actually, his damage wasn't halved (compared to his range) at Hilla.

At Zakum, his top range was 33xxx and his non critical trifling winds did a minimum of 61k damage, and his crits hit an upwards of 130k.
At Hilla, his top range was 24000 and his non critical trifling winds did a minimum of 33k damage, and his crits hit an upwards of 75k.

Clearly, the only way he could have increased his range to 33xxx at Zakum was with Rank 1 Dojo Gloves:
[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2598494/4#comments_list]Source of the videos[/url].

That said, he would get an additional 40% damage against bosses on the gloves.

Now, we have three conclusions:
A) Hilla doesn't have Physical Resist but increased Physical Defence
B) Hilla's Physical Resist was decreased
C) Elemental Expert makes WA skills neutral.

@ketchup11: Well soon for gms, paladins won't have any negatives against them. Currently it's bugged but they're supposed to have super lowered damage due to the way the disadvantage is calculated.

Well much in the same vein as Dark element, I imagine it'll just come into play later on, for now just assume it's a tacked on element that just gets removed later on. I think they're just adding in more elements to justify things. I'm sure Night Walkers will be primarily Dark element and Dawn Warriors will be Holy.

@twopointonefour:
But a wind element doesn't exist, or no mobs that are strong or weak to it do...
Bosses as far as I know are only ever listed as strong to fire, ice, poison, holy, dark, and [i]physical[/i].
someone remind me how paladins and their elemental/physical attacks work on bosses again?

@bluebomber24: Does he play KMS? Cause Element Reset doesn't effect phantoms when they use RF or Milles. I'm sure the same applies in KMS to both strikers and wind archers.

I believe the only thing the skill actually does is remove the "wind" element from the attacks so they aren't destroyed by Pink Bean or any other boss with resistance to every element. So they're just left with a physical attack.

[quote=twopointonefour]Wind Archers and Strikers (all Cygnus soon) will still have a limitation from Physical Resistant bosses. They don't ignore that at all, only magicians with Element Reset can ignore resistances to their element/magics. So yes, they'll still be dishing out halved damage to Hilla/Magnus etc.[/quote]

?Elemental Expert: Your mastery over the elements decreases all your attacking skills' elemental properties by 100%. This skill is unlocked after your fourth job advancement.?

I think airforce did a calc or something that shows that they are not inhibited by it.

Wind Archers and Strikers (all Cygnus soon) will still have a limitation from Physical Resistant bosses. They don't ignore that at all, only magicians with Element Reset can ignore resistances to their element/magics. So yes, they'll still be dishing out halved damage to Hilla/Magnus etc.

[quote=airforce1]@bluebomber24 They now have a mere 55% crit with SE. Definitely the lowest of any archer. This will make IA crit really important which is a shame considering the way the IA system changed in unlimited.

@ketchup11 They ignore physical resist. I did the math remember? So WA wins against Hilla and Empress against MM even before crit boost.[/quote]

What if Hilla doesn't have Physical Resist anymore?

We need another class without ignore physical resist on KMST to test this on Hilla, just to be sure.

@airforce1: doesn't adding pinpoint pierce screw the math up? idunno, you're probably right -3-
also on every boss released since, like magnus, every root abyss boss...
since NK seems intent on making every new boss physical resistant, seems like they've got it pretty good