General

[quote=ChibiCross]I'll be very surprised if it's a ohko with minimal (but average) hp boosters once you're the same level as the monster. But yeah, builds stay the same as long as training spots stay the same.
As for what not to max for marksmen, my personal build (and it really will be 100% personal, since excluding the possible +1 skills, it depends on what you like doing the most/what you value the least), would be probably to ditch HW/MW and maybe IS if it really comes to that. I'm not too keen on having a shadow shifter like skill, I'd rather learn the new puppet.

If dodge doesn't get fixed, I'm definitely ditching that. Although the DB argument will have to wait on the training spots (again), other then that, I might take DB over FP, since I have no idea what you even get as you level FP.
I would've liked to see your input on what gets maxed first, because you made it seem really simple now

AE/AR is definitely faster post-jump, and even if it wasn't, you use AE/AR in certain scenarios, where you cannot use any other skill. That makes it untouchable, in my opinion. I agree on wanting 6 mob DB though, just because even if the spawns don't like to spawn in 6 mobs, you can control the spawns with ease.

In general, I might have to make a new archer (actually, I definitely will. Forgot marksman was still stripped from giving away all my stuff lolol) because so many skill priorities are situational now, but it's definitely simpler now that I've seen other people's feedback.
On that note, I'm actually undecided as to whether to make a bowmaster or marksman (which surprised me, since the loss of DB for bowmasters was huge for my play style). who knows.[/quote]

I currently get 1-2koed at Stronghold with my current hp boosts. I think I have 30-40% hp boost from skills and equips atm. TBH I would be ok with this if they weren't minibosses. But even with hyperbody I would probably pay attention to what I am doing for fear of death, which havn't done that in a long time

@chibicross: When you say EP before MMB, you mean order wise or leveling it up wise?

I personally don't use Puppet a whole lot, if at all, so I don't see it being really high priority...

My only concern is what the build actually looks like by level.

Let's say you're a 160 MM, right between 4th and 200. You have 123 points.

30 MMB
30 SE (not sure about this one since people seem to think SE is even worse after Jump)
30 Snipe (how useful is Snipe vs. Pierce after jump? maybe 1 Snipe and 21 Pierce or will you want to get Pierce to max for the damage?)
10 US
1 Pierce (not sure about how useful Pierce will be compared to Snipe, may be switched)
1 Elite Puppet
10 MMS (again, not sure how PDR stacks and all that)
11 Spirit Link (?)

I can't see Illusion Step being that high priority for MM since we still have Evasion Boost and 1 second of crit is just about 1 US...

Cheers for the bowman upgrade. i still think they should've done this years ago...

@Kyushini thanks for the build. i've saved for one jump comes out.

thanks for the people who contrinuted!

[quote=bluebomber24]@bowmushro0m: Well then its back to my previous statement MMS or Inferno will be left unmaxed.

15% Dex Czak...sorry I don't buy dex potentials, I make them, so I have no clue. If I saw that helm I would it in a heartbeat though...after liquidating some assets.[/quote]

my plan is to self cube also (i'm very lucky when it comes to cubing, all my reverse gear took less than 25k nx each to get 9% dex) but if it's like 2-3bil i'd rather just buy one xD

@bowmushro0m: Well then its back to my previous statement MMS or Inferno will be left unmaxed.

15% Dex Czak...sorry I don't buy dex potentials, I make them, so I have no clue. If I saw that helm I would it in a heartbeat though...after liquidating some assets.

[quote=bluebomber24]@bowmushro0m: Yup. your funding answered your question.[/quote]

but i don't want to keep my reverse hat D: it's 9% dex has a 16 base dex and all skills +1 but i plan to trade it for a 15% dex czak whenever i can afford it...

btw off topic, but do you know what a 15% dex czak is worth in windia?

@bowmushro0m: Yup. your funding answered your question.

[quote=bluebomber24]@bowmushro0m: depends, The Frog, recently brought up something I never thought of before and I will have to do further research in regards to stacking. This is PDR. If you get the Leafre Codex, in theory you could forgo some points MMS and max out all other skills. This is a very valid option as one will probably benefit from Ultimate Inferno more than MMS, unless you only boss. There is also the issue of what PDR stacks with. We get PDR from personality, equips, and codex, if just one of them do not stack it gives us additional SP we could use. For example, the Leafre codex is either inactive or does not stack with PDR. It should still be noted that at the end of the day you will still have a few points in MMS, just not maxed.

Summary: Ultimate Inferno or MMS is going to be left unmaxed. For Marksmen...what skill do they have that least useful, I can't think of anything @.@?

There is also the fact that the leafre codex gives you +1 to all skills, which trust me its equivalent to 5-6 free SP points as for every skill you leave at 29 is a extra point for free..

EDIT: Again, this is alll brought up by Frothy and true. Also note that if your funded and can get legendary potential, Combat orders allows maxing of all skills too. So the more funded you are the more you don't have to choose.[/quote]

well my reverse rapido hat gives +1 all skills and it's been REALLY useful xD so i guess if i can get the leafre set i'd have +2 all skills. meaning i'd get 8-10 free sp points O_O

@bowmushro0m: depends, The Frog, recently brought up something I never thought of before and I will have to do further research in regards to stacking. This is PDR. If you get the Leafre Codex, in theory you could forgo some points MMS and max out all other skills. This is a very valid option as one will probably benefit from Ultimate Inferno more than MMS, unless you only boss. There is also the issue of what PDR stacks with. We get PDR from personality, equips, and codex, if just one of them do not stack it gives us additional SP we could use. For example, the Leafre codex is either inactive or does not stack with PDR. It should still be noted that at the end of the day you will still have a few points in MMS, just not maxed.

Summary: Ultimate Inferno or MMS is going to be left unmaxed. For Marksmen...what skill do they have that least useful, I can't think of anything @.@?

There is also the fact that the leafre codex gives you +1 to all skills, which trust me its equivalent to 5-6 free SP points as for every skill you leave at 29 is a extra point for free..

EDIT: Again, this is alll brought up by Frothy and true. Also note that if your funded and can get legendary potential, Combat orders allows maxing of all skills too. So the more funded you are the more you don't have to choose.

@bluebomber24

so there are things i want to bring up ._. i'm not worried about what to max first anymore..but what NOT to max? we don't have enough sp to max everything..so what do we skip?

[quote=ChibiCross]too many assumptions.
1) whether or not IS is whatever dodge gives us now, or a shadow-shifter like effect (kinda makes or break the skill).
2) training spots, whether they cater towards pierce builds or not
3) how effective e. puppet will be in these new training spots

if those get cleared up, it'll be pretty easy to make a build (1 point skills, followed by optional SE, ult strafe, optional pierce, optional e. puppet, DPM build).
It's just a matter of ranking MMB/BE, Hurricane/Snipe, SE, SL and MMS.
I have no idea on the new training spots once LHC's bonus gets removed, so I haven't actually looked into how useful pierce/e. puppet could be.
Bowmasters will be a lot more straight forward, it'll just be 1 point skills>optional SE>optional e. puppet>DPM build.
I'm doubting SL's usefulness, but I'm horrible at math.[/quote]

Spirit Link, I would have to see how monster park is set up and what levels the Cygnus Stronghold is. I believe SE is stronger than SL by quite a bit I am finding and this is not counting the option that a Archer may have chose to have 5 points in IS early to sync up with 9 SE for a decent damage boost and avoid. Otherwise when to max SL is dependent on when you want the HP boost and most likely after SE. I would have it pretty high by my level though. At the stronghold, its back to 1hit KO if you don't have hp boosters.

But yea, there's alot that I would have to see and/or test for myself. Which is why I rather wait til its released. I already found myself being wrong twice, so I learned my lesson.

@bowmushro0m: yea, if you didn't send me pms, I would have just sat on my butt and ate cookies while watching people make mistakes. thanks alot.

so i talked with bluebomber about a post jump! build. I know chibi will probably have a good one for mm's that will be very similar to bm's. but my plan is to just wing it xD i mean seriously our skills are going to be so good after jump! that as long as you use a little bit of common sense when picking what skills to max, you really can't go wrong.

http://shakar96.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/archerrevamp/

I am still learning the ropes on it too, I will try to help with the Archer skill guide if necessarily and when it comes to GMS. But until then...wait. I am curious for MMs, since most of thier skills just got boosted, do they have the same build more or less, or did the boosts shift some things?