General

[quote=MuffinsINC]beginner forums never stay on topic, when mods decide to start patrolling these forums then maybe.... but untill then its cursed to stay inactive[/quote]

The rarity of mod patrols here use to make this place pretty crazy.

Why is this thread 5 pages long?

The question has been answered.

TS: I'd suggest just closing the thread. You have your answer:

Don't talk to job instructors and just keep leveling.

beginner forums never stay on topic, when mods decide to start patrolling these forums then maybe.... but untill then its cursed to stay inactive

again guys. plz stay on topic dx

[quote=Ryou]Actually, Readers, Pride is considered the worst of all sins, especially in the Christian Bible, as Lucifer was banished from Heaven because of his Pride. However, in other religions, Pride is on equal grounds with Wrath, in some non-religious beliefs, including atheistic beliefs, Wrath is considered the worst.

It basically goes like this:

Theists- Pride is the worst.
Atheists- Wrath is the worst.[/quote]
Except that I never bothered to think that Pride or Wrath would be the "pro-est" out of all the sins or "own" absolutely anything.
(If any of this somehow offended you, the reader, in any way, I apologize, as that was not my intention. But still, a "pro sin"? My goodness!)

[quote=BBteaLord]wtf......sins own all(completley random) ps are low dex the pro-est sins or dexless or high dex?[/quote]

Never in the Seven Deadly Sins did it mention anything about "dex" in general. If I can understand your improper use of English correctly, it would be ridiculous to try to believe that one sin can be the "pro-est" or the fact that it "owns" anything. There are only venial sins and mortal sins and if you're trying to ask the question on which one is more severe, then definitely the mortal sin.
I find your analogy very strange.

[quote=icy89firaga]I was just saying in general many people have gotten to the point all they care about is damage based off the general attitude of the community. I mean like I said, there used to be a time having a 10 attack WG made you godly. Now it's merely average because people raise the bar higher and higher. Again, I stress the "keeping up with the Jones's" statement. Get a couple of arrogant damage freaks to insult someone not as strong as them and then you end up repeating the cycle, making it worse. I feel bad for those that are just NOW starting; they're hopelessly going to be outdamaged before they get a chance to make enough money to compete with the damage crazed community.[/quote]

i suppose that's true
although i've always believed that this game is extremely easy when it comes to stats and everything...i suppose it's all just driven by money.
probably why i just want to have expensive pointless items and frolic with no 'pro' gear. ahaha

[quote=icy89firaga]I hate to be the one that says this, but those days have LONG gone. Nowadays it's all about stats, being #1, etc. I admit I have become a damage freak although I am barely stronger than Beginners that do not have as good of equips as me. But yeah; the days of "playing for fun" are over. It's sink or swim in the vicious world of MapleStory and heck, ANY video game anymore. And the "Keep up with the Jones's" mentality is only going to get worse the more time goes by. Remember when having a 10 attack work glove made you "pro?" Now you need at least a 15 attack one to be considered pro...oh wait. It's all about getting at the very least 8 attack on your glove, plus 12-18% your main stat on it. Sadly, that's the way MapleStory's community is and more people are going to be dragged into it, like it or not.[/quote]

i don't think those days are gone
i just think everyone's priorities have changed because of the whole 'follow the crowd' effect.
the only person who can decide what's gone and what isn't is you.

but OT; i think the question has been answered.

@GodCKnight: good luck on lvling

THANK YOU Oxy12 and thanks for the apology MuffinsINC

sorry for getting offtopic, but yea readers answered this question for us, sorry for making your thread a battleground

[quote=Blazeluv795]Guys! I JUST WANTED TO KNOW HOW TO BECOME A PERMANET BEGINER? I'm never gonna make one. I'm just really curious. And, yes I'm new. Thank you for the people who stayed on topic. *and those who don't think im stupid*[/quote]
Make a beginner and stay a beginner and don't job advance. If you don't know why it's called a permanent beginner, [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/permanent]look it up in the dictionary.[/url]

Guys! I JUST WANTED TO KNOW HOW TO BECOME A PERMANET BEGINER? I'm never gonna make one. I'm just really curious. And, yes I'm new. Thank you for the people who stayed on topic. *and those who don't think im stupid*

again im standing by my opinion of "I dont give a crap what other people think"
my marauder is high dex because i dont care
my beginner sucks because i dont care
If you want to get involved in the neverending competition of damage be my guest but im sticking to enjoying myself or quitting alltogether
heck the only account i update or care about damage on is my marauder because i like to destroy memory guardians in ToT, not because i want to compete with anyone

god people are starting to take their jobs and this game way to seriously, how about this reason
because i got bored of every jobbed account I've made (excluding my marauder) and happen to enjoy the beginners play style
god even the beginner community is getting way to uptight about defending themselves and making them look strong when lets face it WE SUCK
who cares, have fun, throw damage, potential, just stats in general out the window AND HAVE FUN. on a video game you dont need to please the majority or use reason, you just need to enjoy yourself
./end rant

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Is it wrong to take a discussion seriously? Half of the people who responded to me (you included) avoided my questions by asking why I care. I'm just asking for the reason why people train perma-beginners, when it's really the same as warriors, but slower and simpler, and thus far I have received 1 valid response: being bored of regular jobbers (kudos to that person for being honest and answering me).

@LittleTLK
Since when did I express an interest in making a perma-beginner? I'm just questioning your reason for training one, and you still haven't really given an answer.[/quote]
Except I have already answered you; for fun. If you don't understand English, [i]quel dommage.[/i] It is simple, yet very informative. Trying to decipher the meaning of that would be about as pointless as figuring out the meaning of existence.
[b]My goodness, I've never seen any person before who thought video games were there for the sake of being video games. Blasphemy! Ridiculous! Hadouken Sonic Boom Kamehamehas![/b]

[quote=LittleTLK]You are getting answers. You just refuse to accept them.[/quote]

I'm not refusing them, I'm just challenging them.
So far I've gotten "liking a challenge, liking skill, etc", which are all permutations of liking the game requiring more skill. Which it doesn't because as I said before, it just requires more time.

@above
I concede, I can respect liking playing the game in a simple way, but Maplestory is already really a simple game.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]I'm just asking for the reason why people train perma-beginners, when it's really the same as warriors, but slower and simpler[/quote]

Here's a list of things we've said to this:
-Because we can
-Tired of other characters
-The challenge of bossing and doing things other people say you can't do
-Simplicity and challenge involved in the play style
-Masochistically doing the most with the least
-Why should we care, it's just a game, I'm having fun.

All of those are valid reasons, you just haven't accepted them yet.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Is it wrong to take a discussion seriously? Half of the people who responded to me (you included) avoided my questions by asking why I care. I'm just asking for the reason why people train perma-beginners, when it's really the same as warriors, but slower and simpler, and thus far I have received 1 valid response: being bored of regular jobbers (kudos to that person for being honest and answering me).[/quote]

You are getting answers. You just refuse to accept them.

[quote=LittleTLK]Then what is it about being a beginner that appeals to some people?

The answers here are numerous, and you scratched the surface. Fame and attention are one reason.

I personally play one because I like the challenge of bossing and doing things other people say I cannot do.

Are you starting to understand, now?

And you didn't read my comment thoroughly, or you skipped over it.
The reasons are numerous. Everyone does it for different reasons. Tom there says he got bored of jobbed characters. I said that I liked the challenge. I'm sure there are beginners that do it for the fame. Maybe some do it because they enjoy grinding. Others do it because they like to be different.

There's no ONE reason for doing anything, and people rarely think in the same way. That's what I was trying to get you to think about.[/quote]

Iunno dood. Maybe you're just not reading it fully or something. Readers clearly said why he plays his beginner in his comment.

[quote=Readers]No. I played MapleStory for fun. My fun was simply playing a permanent beginner (now I don't play anymore because I obviously have better things to do than to waste time trying to argue on a topic that shouldn't even matter to you, but somehow does). What do you play MapleStory for, a secondary life? By your own responses and by taking all of this so seriously, I would not be surprised if that were to be the case.

Hey, it's possible that people play beginners because they love to grind via any means of motivation to reach a certain goal. Grinding is a common element of most video games. You are not a judge for other peoples' tastes, so why do you care?[/quote]

Is it wrong to take a discussion seriously? Half of the people who responded to me (you included) avoided my questions by asking why I care. I'm just asking for the reason why people train perma-beginners, when it's really the same as warriors, but slower and simpler, and thus far I have received 1 valid response: being bored of regular jobbers (kudos to that person for being honest and answering me).

@LittleTLK
Since when did I express an interest in making a perma-beginner? I'm just questioning your reason for training one, and you still haven't really given an answer.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]I like you're trying to turn all cryptic on me. What I see in beginners is low damage, and unnecessarily large amounts of grinding. Sure, you gain respect from other people, and I for one respect high level beginners. But then, do all perma-beginners exist just to garner other people's respect and attention?[/quote]
No. I played MapleStory for fun. My fun was simply playing a permanent beginner (now I don't play anymore because I obviously have better things to do than to waste time trying to argue on a topic that shouldn't even matter to you, but somehow does). What do you play MapleStory for, a secondary life? By your own responses and by taking all of this so seriously (or by trolling too hard possibly), I would not be surprised if that were to be the case.
[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Maplestory isn't the best game to talk about "skill".
And I'm meant to believe that people make beginners for the wonderful experience? Give me a break, it's just extra grinding, which incidentally takes no more skill than adventurer grinding.

edit:
@above, okay, so you play cause you love grinding more than others? Right, that explains things.[/quote]
Hey, it's possible that people play beginners because they love to grind via any means of motivation to reach a certain goal. Grinding is a common element of most video games. You are not a judge for other peoples' tastes, so why do you care?

Most of 'em leech

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Doing the most with the least does not a good gaming experience make. Also, where did you get flash-jump-attack? Also, I'm going to be away for a bit so don't expect me to respond for about 30 minutes.[/quote]
Speak for yourself, but I love doing the most with the least--in any game.
Also:
Attack- Easy
Mid-air-Falling-Attack- Press Attack whilst in the air. Everyone knows this, really.
Jump-down Attack- Jump through a platform and press Attack. Another commonly known.
Jump-Attack- Jump and Attack at the same time. Not hard.
Up-and-Over-Attack- Moving in a direction then Jump Attack, if done correctly you go over the enemy you hit and don't get hit.
Mid-air-turnaround-Attack- Moving one direction, jumping and flicking the opposite direction as attacking. Used commonly by Sins, but otherwise by no one else.
Knock-back-Jump-Attack- Jump-Attack performed in such a way that an enemy knocks you backwards--giving a free jump and better map movement.
Flash-Jump-Attack-The same as the above, except you get knocked forwards--Giving you the idea of a "mini Flash Jump"
Hug-Attack- Properly hugging enemies so that you won't be attacked or knock them out of your hug-radius
Crouch Attack- Obvious
Jumping Crouch Attack- Jump and Crouch attack at the same time, harder to do than it used to be
Up-and-Over Crouch Attack- Combine regular Up and over with Jump Crouch Attack--useless, but fun.
Three Snails- Obvious, used for pulling.
Jumping Three Snails- Same as Jump-shooting as a mage/bowman, used for pulling
Up and Over Three Snails- Same as Up-and-over attack with Three Snails, used for pulling

@FreeWii4Mii:

Then don't make a beginner.
It honestly is that simple.

[quote=GunDelHel]Do you know the attacks available to Beginners by heart? You have Attack, Mid-air-Falling-Attack, Jump-down Attack, Jump-Attack, Up-and-Over-Attack, Mid-air-turnaround-Attack, Knock-back-Jump-Attack, Flash-Jump-Attack, Hug-Attack, Crouch Attack, Jumping Crouch Attack, Up-and-Over Crouch Attack, Three Snails, Jumping Three Snails, Up and Over Three Snails.
Are these available to any jobbed character? Of course. Do any of them learn them by heart and can they influence them when they want to? Eh, maybe a select few of them, but not all of them.
It's not the grind--it's doing the most with the least.[/quote]

Doing the most with the least does not a good gaming experience make. Also, where did you get flash-jump-attack? Also, I'm going to be away for a bit so don't expect me to respond for about 30 minutes.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Maplestory isn't the best game to talk about "skill".
And I'm meant to believe that people make beginners for the wonderful experience? Give me a break, it's just extra grinding, which incidentally takes no more skill than adventurer grinding.[/quote]
Do you know the attacks available to Beginners by heart? You have Attack, Mid-air-Falling-Attack, Jump-down Attack, Jump-Attack, Up-and-Over-Attack, Mid-air-turnaround-Attack, Knock-back-Jump-Attack, Flash-Jump-Attack, Hug-Attack, Crouch Attack, Jumping Crouch Attack, Up-and-Over Crouch Attack, Three Snails, Jumping Three Snails, Up and Over Three Snails.
Are these available to any jobbed character? Of course. Do any of them learn them by heart and can they influence them when they want to? Eh, maybe a select few of them, but not all of them.
It's not the grind--it's doing the most with the least.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Yeah, thanks, Confucius. So it all boils down to that you were bored of jobbed characters like the guy above you?[/quote]

Socratic method = Socrates, not Confucius.

And you didn't read my comment thoroughly, or you skipped over it.
The reasons are numerous. Everyone does it for different reasons. Tom there says he got bored of jobbed characters. I said that I liked the challenge. I'm sure there are beginners that do it for the fame. Maybe some do it because they enjoy grinding. Others do it because they like to be different.

There's no ONE reason for doing anything, and people rarely think in the same way. That's what I was trying to get you to think about.

[quote=GunDelHel]I've said this before, I'll say it again. A beginner's style comes from the simplicity and challenge involved in the play style.
Beginners are to Monster Hunter, as any Jobbed Class is to a Hack and Slash.

In Monster Hunter--you can use multiple weapons and your power comes mainly from your Weapons and your Armor. You don't have fancy skills. Then, what's the point of Monster Hunter? You kill monsters in order to get better Weapons and Armor. Difficulty is a big perk here--you can't just spam attack and expect to win. You have to hit where you want your attacks to hit and watch your ass--otherwise you're going to die in a hurry. Fights are going to take longer, grinding for better equipment is a pain, and the experience is wonderful.

In most Hack and Slash games--you're bound to certain types of weapons and your power comes mainly from your levels and skills. You're filled with fancy skills and in most cases the enemies are just there to be ripped into. There's lock on, too many skills, no strategy whatsoever. You just kill, kill, and kill.[/quote]

Maplestory isn't the best game to talk about "skill".
And I'm meant to believe that people make beginners for the wonderful experience? Give me a break, it's just extra grinding, which incidentally takes no more skill than adventurer grinding.

edit:
@above, okay, so you play cause you love grinding more than others? Right, that explains things.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]What I see in beginners is low damage, and unnecessarily large amounts of grinding.[/quote]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. A beginner's style comes from the simplicity and challenge involved in the play style.
Beginners are to Monster Hunter, as any Jobbed Class is to a Hack and Slash.

In Monster Hunter--you can use multiple weapons and your power comes mainly from your Weapons and your Armor. You don't have fancy skills. Then, what's the point of Monster Hunter? You kill monsters in order to get better Weapons and Armor. Difficulty is a big perk here--you can't just spam attack and expect to win. You have to hit where you want your attacks to hit and watch your ass--otherwise you're going to die in a hurry. Fights are going to take longer, grinding for better equipment is a pain, and the experience is wonderful.

In most Hack and Slash games--you're bound to certain types of weapons and your power comes mainly from your levels and skills. You're filled with fancy skills and in most cases the enemies are just there to be ripped into. There's lock on, too many skills, no strategy whatsoever. You just kill, kill, and kill.

[quote=LittleTLK]It's not cryptic.
The answers are in front of you. You just cannot see them through your narrow minded thinking.

The logical answers to the questions are:

1. I do not know.
2. Yes.
3. It must not be about the damage output.

Your next line of reasoning should be:

Then what is it about being a beginner that appeals to some people?

The answers here are numerous, and you scratched the surface. Fame and attention are one reason.

I personally play one because I like the challenge of bossing and doing things other people say I cannot do.

Are you starting to understand, now?[/quote]

Yeah, thanks, Confucius. So it all boils down to that you were bored of jobbed characters like the guy above you?

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]I like you're trying to turn all cryptic on me. What I see in beginners is low damage, and unnecessarily large amounts of grinding. Sure, you gain respect from other people, and I for one respect high level beginners. But then, do all perma-beginners exist just to garner other people's respect and attention?[/quote]

It's not cryptic.
The answers are in front of you. You just cannot see them through your narrow minded thinking.

The logical answers to the questions are:

1. I do not know.
2. Yes.
3. It must not be about the damage output.

Your next line of reasoning should be:

Then what is it about being a beginner that appeals to some people?

The answers here are numerous, and you scratched the surface. Fame and attention are one reason.

I personally play one because I like the challenge of bossing and doing things other people say I cannot do.

Are you starting to understand, now?

[quote=LittleTLK]You are the one that asked the question.
And once again, ignorance on Basil has amused me.

Let's work this out, dood. I'll help teach you in the Socratic method.

Why would people choose to play as a beginner?

Beginners have low damage, do they not?

What then could possibly be the reason?

Ask yourself these questions. If you do not understand, you are not ready to learn.[/quote]

I like you're trying to turn all cryptic on me. What I see in beginners is low damage, and unnecessarily large amounts of grinding. Sure, you gain respect from other people, and I for one respect high level beginners. But then, do all perma-beginners exist just to garner other people's respect and attention?

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Cause icy up there was nice enough to point out that beginners happen to have pitiful damage. So ask him, not me.[/quote]

You are the one that asked the question.
And once again, ignorance on Basil has amused me.

Let's work this out, dood. I'll help teach you in the Socratic method.

Why would people choose to play as a beginner?

Beginners have low damage, do they not?

What then could possibly be the reason?

Ask yourself these questions. If you do not understand, you are not ready to learn.

[quote=FreeWii4Mii]Thus, the question becomes clear. Why the hell do people make perma beginners?[/quote]

Because we can and it's free. (i have always wanted to say that )

I made one for fun and have never regret it. Except when i have a research paper to due.....

[quote=LittleTLK]
@freewii4mii:
Why the hell do you care?
It's a game.[/quote]

Cause icy up there was nice enough to point out that beginners happen to have pitiful damage. So ask him, not me.

[quote=dragonzrk]Sit safe spot and get help from bishop cause compared to a skill, [b]u cant kill anything[/b]. seen over 150 beginer.
Big time bishop help there. But some mages get more exp in party so that may help them to have a
beginner around.[/quote]

Your ignorance amuses me.

@freewii4mii:
Why the hell do you care?
It's a game.

[quote=icy89firaga]Seriously think about it; is going from like 300 - 3000 damage to 303 - 3030 damage even going to make a difference, esp considering each level you go up you need around 2-4% more EXP than the last one to level up? Not really. That's 3 more min and 30 more maximum damage per level up in that case. For you, a few points into LUK may only bump your max from say like 6000 to 6040, but that extra 40 could mean several hundred MORE damage. Combine having mastery and your average goes up WAAAAAAAAAY more. Look at it this way; suppose for some reason you have a level 50 Fighter and I have a level 50 Beginner. Assume all our stats and equips are the same. My range might be, oh, like 150 - 1200. Yours on the other hand, would be more like 650 - 1200. On a monster with no defense, you hit a minimum of 650 damage with a regular attack where my min would only be 150. Not only that, but odds are you would use Slash Blast (130% damage) or Power Strike (260% damage), so that same 650 would be either 845 damage or 1690 damage.[/quote]

Thus, the question becomes clear. Why the hell do people make perma beginners?

[quote=icy89firaga]
EDIT: Thanks for assuming all Beginners are helpless without leech above poster. I don't need a stinking Priest for Holy Symbol. I don't need a mob of jobbies to do MY work for me. I work for myself. If I was to leech, [b]I sure as hell would NOT waste it on someone that gets like 15 more average damage[/b] a levelup that gets NO new skills. I'd rather get leech on a character that can ACTUALLY get skills like any early 3rd jobber that goes through a hell time. At least THEY will get benefit from leeching, not a [b]measly 15 more damage[/b], which given no mastery, who cares if you were 300 - 3600 damage and now you're 302 - 3635 damage? You wouldn't notice it anyway...[/quote]

You refer to yourself in a really derogatory way.

[quote=dragonzrk]Sit safe spot and get help from bishop cause compared to a skill, u cant kill anything. seen over 150 beginer.
Big time bishop help there. But some mages get more exp in party so that may help them to have a
beginner around.[/quote]

umadbro?
how u leech from lv 10 - 25 then?
kthx

and what is a bishop at 70 - 120? HS mule much? need help from Dk lololnoob.

How to be a Permanent Beginner
Step 1: Don't Job Advance
Step 2: Use Common weapons and equipment
Step 3: Add into Str and Dex
Step 4: Use Attack key to hit enemies for EXP.
Step 5: Level Up
Step 6: ?
Step 7: Profit

Yup those 3 skills along with your usual skills such as whacking and jumping. Skip the job advancements and BOOM you have advanced to Permanent Beginner =D Fun Fun =)

Also there are different kinds of beginners, just choose one you like best.

I'm new, okay? So, just dont advance or anything? So, you only have those three skills you get at the very beginning? O.o