General

Evans do not hit 100k at lv.80.

They hit 100k at lv.100 Eq

My lvl 84 aran hits 50k with the last hit only.... so crazy , with control lvl 84 its like:
10k-20kx2-50k

Yes, an oversight on my part.

[quote=phoenix23]Regardless, the math doesn't work out. Unless he has an unconventional skill build (such as, say, unmaxed high mastery which affects critical damage).[/quote]

I'm not picking sides on this debate or whether your calculations were wrong. To be blunt, I'm just pointing out your lack of observation in this argument.

[quote=Azngothopz]He's not using snow charge in the ss[/quote]

Regardless, the math doesn't work out. Unless he has an unconventional skill build (such as, say, unmaxed high mastery which affects critical damage).

I've revised my chart thanks to the criticism by @Fathered, and now we can continue the discussion in the appropriate topic ( http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2405265 ).

[quote=phoenix23]@Fathered: Try harder. Kacchu Musha is ice-weak.

(Do you not have maxed SS or something? That would make a lot more sense)
With your range of 125k, and with final toss is 640%. Let's do some very basic math. 6.4 x 125k is 800k. When a regular non-crit FT should be netting you theoretical 800k's, how come you're hitting a 900k CRIT on an ICE-WEAK monster?
Clearly, something very fishy with your experiment.

Doesn't matter, really, since your tests are completely moot. Boss damage and ignore PDR affect [b]all skills equally[/b]. Ignore PDR does not stack properly, and thus the extra ignore PDR from FB is LESS useful with added PDR.
Maybe if you could read, you'd have a look at the topic I linked you to. You'd see that the range below my chart cannot possibly be accurate for every aran, which is why I stress that you should use the numbers you hit instead of your range.

Now you're just showing anyone who bothers to read this how silly you are.
Maybe just for illiterate people I'll remake the chart without ranges at the bottom.

On topic: The new power of Arans is probably making up for the huge number of level 200 noobs out there nowadays.
For any more off-topic discussion, maybe post in the thread you're so eager to talk about.[/quote]

He's not using snow charge in the ss

[quote=vZheng]My lvl 126 Aran is somewhat funded and I can hit 650k with my combo judgement in total. And 220k+ just with my last triple swing.[/quote]

Yes let's judge how powerful a class is by the attacks they can produce every 15 seconds or so.
My Pally used to be able to hit 15 million damage with heaven's hammer at level 120 with a 1 attack sword. OP!

@Fathered: Try harder. Kacchu Musha is ice-weak.

(Do you not have maxed SS or something? That would make a lot more sense)
With your range of 125k, and with final toss is 640%. Let's do some very basic math. 6.4 x 125k is 800k. When a regular non-crit FT should be netting you theoretical 800k's, how come you're hitting a 900k CRIT on an ICE-WEAK monster?
Clearly, something very fishy with your experiment.

Doesn't matter, really, since your tests are completely moot. Boss damage and ignore PDR affect [b]all skills equally[/b]. Ignore PDR does not stack properly, and thus the extra ignore PDR from FB is LESS useful with added PDR.
Maybe if you could read, you'd have a look at the topic I linked you to. You'd see that the range below my chart cannot possibly be accurate for every aran, which is why I stress that you should use the numbers you hit instead of your range.

Now you're just showing anyone who bothers to read this how silly you are.
Maybe just for illiterate people I'll remake the chart without ranges at the bottom.

On topic: The new power of Arans is probably making up for the huge number of level 200 noobs out there nowadays.
For any more off-topic discussion, maybe post in the thread you're so eager to talk about.

Why is my stupid damage range 10k no buffs at level 130! Only my last attack does 100k... Need some help! This is not funny

[quote=phoenix23]The information still applies to all Arans. Critical rate does not change the shape of the curves nor the critical points where one skill surpasses another. I redid the chart with 90% and 80% and 70% critical rate. It looked exactly the same, except everything was slightly lower.

Your ability to interpret data astounds me.[/quote]
Just to prove your chart inaccurate I did this. If you didn't include passive boss damage or only included cleaving blows that makes it even more inaccurate.
http://i.imgur.com/q0WKT.jpg
PDR Ignore:40% from cleaving blows, 30% from leafre set, 4%from level 40 ambition. 74% PDR Ignore total.
Boss Damage: 20% from cleaving blows and 5% from regained memory. 25% boss damage total.
Kacchu Musha has 25% PDR.
25%x.74=18.5 25-18.5=6.5% reduction to range.
Low range was 112781.
112781x.065=7330 112781-7330=105415 low range after PDR.
Range to hit cap with Final Toss in your chart was around 80-85k
http://i.imgur.com/F0uHT.jpg
Hit a 966k crit with Final Toss with 105.4k low range.
The accuracy of your chart astounds me.

nope not even op as evans

[quote=Fathered]I'm sure all the arans with 100% critical rate will find that chart helpful. Sadly I'm not one of them.[/quote]

The information still applies to all Arans. Critical rate does not change the shape of the curves nor the critical points where one skill surpasses another. I redid the chart with 90% and 80% and 70% critical rate. It looked exactly the same, except everything was slightly lower.

Your ability to interpret data astounds me.

[quote=phoenix23][url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2404843]Please tell me more about when to use RS over OSFB[/url][/quote]
I'm sure all the arans with 100% critical rate will find that chart helpful. Sadly I'm not one of them.

@AckarRed: ur not dexless

[quote=MegaSonic]i hit 300k right now

no funding, clean weapon

0_0

at lvl 80 i easily broke past 100k, i used to hit 170k back then[/quote]

I can't even do 100k now and I'm 144.

i hit 300k right now

no funding, clean weapon

0_0

at lvl 80 i easily broke past 100k, i used to hit 170k back then

[quote=Fathered]Rolling spin has a greater and greater gap in hits per second between it and OS+FB the more mobs you add. There's nearly 8 hits per second difference on a mob of 6.
I agree about arans peaking pretty early and hardly anyone will make the jump from OS+FB to rolling spin in any case because the amount of range and boss damage necessary to hit max consistently with rolling spin is massive compared to OS+FB.[/quote]

[url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2404843]Please tell me more about when to use RS over OSFB[/url]

[quote=phoenix23]Like @Feeling said, Arans are strong and peak early.

Have a look at the chart I just posted (here on the aran forums) and just see how sharply each skill levels off. As you mentioned, Final Toss is not so great later in the game when all your hits are 999,999.

Just note that 7.97 hits per second, like you mentioned, is only on 1v1 (as it includes AFA).[/quote]
Rolling spin has a greater and greater gap in hits per second between it and OS+FB the more mobs you add. There's nearly 8 hits per second difference on a mob of 6.
I agree about arans peaking pretty early and hardly anyone will make the jump from OS+FB to rolling spin in any case because the amount of range and boss damage necessary to hit max consistently with rolling spin is massive compared to OS+FB.

[quote=Fathered]The numbers I used were assuming fast 2 speed, in fact I actually slowed rolling spin down a tiny bit its actually 7.97. I don't know why you would use final toss. If you are going for hits per second final toss is the arans worst move.[/quote]

Like @Feeling said, Arans are strong and peak early.

Have a look at the chart I just posted (here on the aran forums) and just see how sharply each skill levels off. As you mentioned, Final Toss is not so great later in the game when all your hits are 999,999.

Just note that 7.97 hits per second, like you mentioned, is only on 1v1 (as it includes AFA).

Arans are definitely too overpowered now, more than I would like them to be. I guess it can't be helped, though.
Like others have said before, the main issue now is that it's so easy to hit the damage cap with all of our skills that it discourages the extremely funded people, which I guess is a good thing, but damn, it's annoying. Seeing a max damage non-critical is basically shouting "look at me this could've been a two million!"

[quote=icedemon9]True o-o

@Fathered: I'm not really sure about the numbers here if they are both at max atk speed. Besides, that is rolling spin. Final toss is hard to execute if you want to use it constantly.[/quote]
The numbers I used were assuming fast 2 speed, in fact I actually slowed rolling spin down a tiny bit its actually 7.97. I don't know why you would use final toss. If you are going for hits per second final toss is the arans worst move.

[quote=phoenix23]Yes, I'm not disputing that.

Why do you think GMS's most ridiculously funded players choose DrK's as their warrior characters?[/quote]

True o-o

@Fathered: I'm not really sure about the numbers here if they are both at max atk speed. Besides, that is rolling spin. Final toss is hard to execute if you want to use it constantly.

[quote=BioZero]@Samla111: Hard to believe only about 10-20 atk or whatever would get my range up that much though..[/quote]

10-20atk might raise your range by about 2k-4k, maybe. my idea might be different for minimal funding. half naked on my aran, i am literally half naked, only wearing like a set of pants, a zhelm and some gloves. i do have rings however, such as all 3 evo rings and a legendary gratias. i have, if i remember right because im too lazy to log on to check atm, some 13atk gloves, an avg. zhelm, 95atk polearm with like +8all stats, 2%str pants, evo rings I, II, III, legendary gratias, a MoN and maybe some other equips i might be forgetting. i have 25 BoF, decent sharp eyes and also maxed HM and AFA -> 19 in OS.

@Samla111: Hard to believe only about 10-20 atk or whatever would get my range up that much though..

@BioZero: oh that may be why =p my aran's range is ~27k atm, which might explain the difference. get your BoF to 24-30 xD pretty easy with the amount of 2x/3x/w.e they're giving us !

@Samla111: No, I never use snow charge on them xD

my range buffed is 14783 ~ 17393 and I only have lv 12 BoF lol

[quote=BioZero]Then why in the world am I so weak O__o
and also i've noticed with no buffs i do about 80ks-100ks with os[/quote]

are you using snow charge on ice-strong monsters? (might be one possibility) what's your range buffed? do you have a 120 KoC? tons of factors come into play xD

[quote=Samla111]yes sir, 95atk maple polearm, the level 80 one, hitting 200ks with OS o3o i prefer FT though, more dpm xD[/quote]

Then why in the world am I so weak O__o
and also i've noticed with no buffs i do about 80ks-100ks with os

[quote=BioZero]95 atk? What O_o I'm lv 141 with OS30 and I hit 100ks-200ks with os... I have about a 108 atk polearm[/quote]

yes sir, 95atk maple polearm, the level 80 one, hitting 200ks with OS o3o i prefer FT though, more dpm xD

[quote=Samla111]With very minimal funding spent on my aran, as in being almost half naked with a 95atk polearm and like 2% str, my aran tops the 27k range at level 142 or something O_O. I hit around 200k overswings (level 19 os) and about 300-400k final tosses. if thats not OP, then idk what is... and evans with 20k ranges hitting 100k per illusion >_> they have speed and power too now.. just my take on it =p[/quote]

95 atk? What O_o I'm lv 141 with OS30 and I hit 100ks-200ks with os... I have about a 108 atk polearm

THe problem is Arans reach their potential too easily so with higher funds damage just drops.

[quote=Tennzin]that one guy is right.. if everyone hit 999k.. arans would be one of the weakest..[/quote]

if everyone hits 999k

[quote=icedemon9]When you say that, if each warrior was funded to a point where they can hit the damage cap, drks have the best damage input because of DI. And that takes A LOT of funding. D:[/quote]
DI is 8.22 hits per second and rolling spin is 7.9 hits per second. Not really a huge difference there. Especially considering drks don't even have afa so their final attack is weaker.

[quote=icedemon9]When you say that, if each warrior was funded to a point where they can hit the damage cap, drks have the best damage input because of DI. And that takes A LOT of funding. D:[/quote]

Yes, I'm not disputing that.

Why do you think GMS's most ridiculously funded players choose DrK's as their warrior characters?

In all honesty it has to be like this due to the fact all the classes have to be brought up to speed with DS's and Mercs(Not to mention phantoms that will be coming soon)

[quote=phoenix23]ITT ppl comparing ranges and not damage outputs.

Seriously basil.

Every class has a different weapon multiplyer. Additionally, every class has diffferent skill %ages.
Arans have a 35% damage buff that shows up in their range. They have high attack bonuses and average skill %age.
They do great DPS when unfunded, and they are severely limited by the damage cap when they are funded.

Their attacks aren't exactly slow, but they put out fewer hits per minute than most other classes, and thus if you hit 999k on every hit Arans are one of the weakest classes in the game.[/quote]

When you say that, if each warrior was funded to a point where they can hit the damage cap, drks have the best damage input because of DI. And that takes A LOT of funding. D:

@Stebum: hmm i have 3 evo rings, alliance unbound ring, 3% str helm, top, bottom, cape, 4% belt, 10% earrings, 7% shoes, 14 att bwg, avg mon, silent crusade medal, and a 123 att machlear with 15% ignore def

that one guy is right.. if everyone hit 999k.. arans would be one of the weakest..

Im pretty strong at a unfunded level.
Of course, i dont play anymore

[quote=setevensin]wait... Can arans go to speed 1? or do you mean hit the speed cap as in speed 2[/quote]

I mean hit the speed cap. We have a an added 4 attack speed now, we can now hit the cap of spped 2 with a normal (6) polearm.

ITT ppl comparing ranges and not damage outputs.

Seriously basil.

Every class has a different weapon multiplyer. Additionally, every class has diffferent skill %ages.
Arans have a 35% damage buff that shows up in their range. They have high attack bonuses and average skill %age.
They do great DPS when unfunded, and they are severely limited by the damage cap when they are funded.

Their attacks aren't exactly slow, but they put out fewer hits per minute than most other classes, and thus if you hit 999k on every hit Arans are one of the weakest classes in the game.

I don't get how unfunded Demon Slayers get such a high range. T^T

[quote=AckarRed]We have double the attacking speed of Dark Knights, not to mention we can break the speed cap with just a normal polearm, I don't think "slow" is a right definition.[/quote]

wait... Can arans go to speed 1? or do you mean hit the speed cap as in speed 2

[quote=caberton]Mercs are not op if unfunded, theyre similar to phantoms, good funding=good dmg, on the other side, DS are op[/quote]

Demon Slayers are horrible without funding lol, go make one if you don't believe me.

@arianagrande my evan lv 81 doesnt do 100k

If any aran wants to show off their damage range, go to my unofficial aran range thread! :o I update it everyday (started it today)
OT: Arans are pretty OP since the patch, definitely

[quote=Pilgramage]slow attack speed, relatively speaking. don't let the big numbers fool you, we aren't ksing nobody anytime soon.[/quote]

Say that when you get a PSB
Fast attack speed...

With very minimal funding spent on my aran, as in being almost half naked with a 95atk polearm and like 2% str, my aran tops the 27k range at level 142 or something O_O. I hit around 200k overswings (level 19 os) and about 300-400k final tosses. if thats not OP, then idk what is... and evans with 20k ranges hitting 100k per illusion >_> they have speed and power too now.. just my take on it =p

[quote=Stebum]What is considered average funding, care to share your equips/range/money invested?[/quote]

I can tell you this: I know I'm not the "average", and I'm a level higher than her. I barely break the 10k range clean

Yups, arans are op, i can solo zak in 15 mins with avg funding