[quote=QuantumCode]I will leave this conversation on this quote: "This is the true horror of religion: It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own. If you wake up tomorrow morning thinking that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes is going to turn them into the body of Elvis Presley - you have lost your mind. But if you think the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus you're just a Catholic." - Sam Harris[/quote]
I'll leave you with this quote.
"Man is a creature whose substance is faith. What his faith is, he is." -Chapter 17 Verse 3 of the Bhagavad Gita
@Snovvy: I realize that extremists are not the norm. I was just asking if an "atrocious act committed by a Muslim and justified by the Koran" is ever deemed legitimate by the larger Islamic community.
[quote=Snovvy]Tell me a recent event where a Muslim committed an atrocious act and was justified by the Qur'an. There are none.[/quote]
I'm legitimately curious on this one. Can you provide an example where a Muslim committed an atrocious act and was justified by the Koran and also [b]accepted by the larger Islamic community?[/b]. Every group has it's extremists. It's when extremists become the norm when things get really bad.
[quote=QuantumCode]In my eyes, it doesn't matter if religion has caused the most people to die in history, or is the tenth on the list. It has caused many people to die, it has caused many people to commit terrible acts in the name of their Gods, it has promoted deep levels of intolerance, and so much more. It isn't justified by saying something else topped it in its heinousness.
I may have worded my stance on its necessity incorrectly. What I mean is that religion does not do a SINGLE good thing that people couldn't do without religion. That makes it unnecessary.[/quote]
But if you condemn religion, than surely you would condemn the others on the list? Things such as political science? Capitalism causes a lot of problems for poorer nations, including poverty and death. Does Capitalism have no place in the world? Again, I'll repeat what I said earlier.
[quote=Im2noob]Are these good things? No. Are these bad things? No. History is studied objectively, not from a moral standpoint. Religion played and continues to play it's part in shaping history. It's a fascinating how it's moved people. Religion has it's place in history alongside war and genocide but also with science, culture, prosperity, and learning. Don't be too quick to say "corrupting our world'. Open your mind and you can see so much more.[/quote]
Perhaps you would understand better with a quote from Gandalf?
[quote=Gandalf]Frodo: It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance. Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. [b]Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. [/b]My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. [b]The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many[/b].[/quote]
And religion is in my opinion one of the greatest unifying forces in the world, and in that way, one of the most influential forces in the world. It is not easy to bring a body of people together. Religion excels at this. Sure it's technically possible to unify people in other ways. It just happens to be much easier via religion. The Pope's influence crosses national borders. Warring people pilgrimage together to Mecca every year for the Hajj.
[quote=QuantumCode]I'd say you were wrong. While there are some religions that don't do harm, such as Buddhism, there are others that have had tremendously bad impacts. I wouldn't bring up wars, I'm in full understanding that we as humans can be a violent species regardless of ideology.
Religion gives otherwise good people -justification- for doing horrendous acts. There is nothing else that I can think of that would promote people to believe by the masses that suicide bombing is a holy act, and that God will embrace you for it. Nothing that would tell a mother that it's okay for her son to sacrifice himself by triggering a mine because he will go to heaven for it. Nothing that would tell HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people that it's okay to hate and kill people because of their sexual preferences. Yes, in the past it has had its place. It doesn't now.
Religion is now a crutch for those who complain that "science is too difficult".[/quote]
Yes I agree that religion gives people the excuse to commit horrendous acts. I would also argue that horrendous act after horrendous act makes up a good portion of human history. One man's victory is another man's loss. That's the way it's always been. It's the very essence of human history. Don't focus on how many people died. Focus on what [b]changed.[/b]
Sure suicide bombers believe they are doing it for God. And Christian soldiers who in there defense Malta and Vienna, likely saved much of Europe from Turkish domination, from the Ottomans also believed they were warriors of God. See what I'm saying? The historical effects of the Reconquista were much, much greater than just "it was horrible because thousands died".
Oh and just an fyi, the conflict between democracy, Nazism, and Marxism killed more people than likely ever religious war combined in the past century. Is political science the scourge of this world? Is Karl Marx, a philosopher who died penniless and who's ideas were only implemented years after his death, the evilest man in history? Political science isn't the only thing that gives people an excuse to kill other people. Simple economic factors have had humans fighting for centuries now. Are the laws of supply and demand humanity's new worst enemy? Why single out religion?
And religion has no place in history today? Are you saying the Middle East does not share Islam as an unifying factor? And Buddhism and the Dalai Lama have no implications towards Tibetan independence either?
[quote=dragon66]ss of god or bs. that's all imma say.[/quote]
There's many things science can't "ss" and still we know they exist, so that claim is ridiculous.
I myself am open to "any" religion, altho i strongly believe in science, because it is something than CAN be proven and measurable. Like the demon slayer girl said, some scientists like Stephen Hawking have actually come to the beginning of the universe, and is not only because of "gravity". There's several other measurable physical facts that can prove it. And wanting to go even further back with the question "if there was nothing, who invented that" or such...only makes you seem worse. If people really educated themselves with true science, some of those claims could be avoided. Then again, staying close-minded to any religion practically makes you as ignorant as you claim any christian is. So one piece of advice is -read- as much as you can. Some good lectures are various philosophical currents. My favourite author is Nietzsche, who really "attacks" religion, but makes a good point. People don't have to believe only one thing, you can take tiny bits of everything that you choose to believe.
On the other hand, christians "force" us to "follow" their beliefs even if we do not believe in their claims. (i.e go to hell if you don't believe) Hell is something christians made up, if i choose not to believe in heaven or hell but on other religions or simply nothing after death. That doesn't make me any more ignorant.
[quote=QuantumCode]You people do realize the trap Christians are putting on you? They're turning it into a game of semantics: "No, you're an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST! Not an ATHEIST!". Ignore these claims and get to the root of the problem: their unsubstantiated belief in a deity has been crippling the world. They push their ideology in the political realm and watch us quibble over silly terminology. We're free thinkers. We believe in reality. You don't have to fall under the labels Christians are setting up.[/quote]
From a purely historical standpoint religion is not seen as a positive or negative force. I'm not seeing where you're getting "crippling the world" from. History would have been drastically different without religion. This is neither a good or bad thing. You may bring up the example of wars, but the reality is [b]wars will happen anyway. Eliminating religion as a factor will not create world peace[/b]. Oh and just as a reminder after the fall of Rome in the West, it was the Catholic church that kept learning alive. The Bedouin tribes of Arabia were nobodies in 600 AD. After Islam and unification they were the most powerful empire in the world.
Are these positive or negative things? Would Arabs have been been the force they were if it weren't for Islam? Could Europe have stood against the Arab onslaught without the unification that came with Christianity? Would have Constantinople fallen sooner if it weren't for the Crusades? What about the Reconquista? Would Spain have retaken the Iberian peninsula if the Reconquista was not in part a Holy War? And without Iberia, geographically most suitable for westward expansion. would the discovery of the New World have been delayed? Would the New World have been colonized as fast if it were if groups were not escaping religious freedom?
Swing to the other side of the world. For 2000 years China structured it's government on Confucianism (yeah I know it's not really a religion but people love to consider it one). Buddhist monasteries were centers of culture and learning. In India religion unifies and divides.
Are these good things? No. Are these bad things? No. History is studied objectively, not from a moral standpoint. Religion played and continues to play it's part in shaping history. It's a fascinating how it's moved people. Religion has it's place in history alongside war and genocide but also with science, culture, prosperity, and learning. Don't be too quick to say "corrupting our world'. Open your mind and you can see so much more.
@Megatron: Then you havent read the 24000 manuscripts written by the disciples. And no, they didnt write all of the, they were copies from other people.
This thread is pointless, because having a logical argument with a believer is like playing chess with a pigeon. It will knock down all the pieces, crap on the chess board and fly among other pigeons to swagger about how he won the game.
[quote=Cooliee124]People need to learn not to give a damn.[/quote]
If no one gave a damn about anything, we would still be living the stone age.
[quote=Snovvy]@DarkThrone: I don't know if many people are doing it because it "makes them look smarter" I think it has to do with how senseless religion is.
And in this book which blatantly contradicts itself in the New Testament, do you really think it's worth trusting? How do you know that theme was human error, or god's will?[/quote]
[quote=Darkthrone]@Snovvy: Nope. It's not people who have researched reason for it, it's people who think being atheist makes them look smarter, so they stick to [i]knowing[/i] there is no god.[/quote] I don't know that there is no god. I'm convinced there's no god. There's a huge difference. I'm aware that there's a chance God exists. That chance is about as big as the chance that toothfairies or a flying Alien-potato-spaghetti-Duyngdaydilpertizermegaman exists.
[quote=Snovvy]A good Christian would do as the Bible says, and call for the death of women who marry as virgins.
Or wait, is it up for interpretation? Gee, then it's subjective, which makes the definition of a "good Christian" vary from person to person.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk]It is impossible to take the Bible literally. Therefore, you must interpret it.[/url][/quote]
The Old Testament law is still the heart of the Gospel, but the judgements have simply changed. In other words, God still considers it sin, but people are no longer called to execute judgement on them. That's God's job.
[quote=Rtyu] I follow the New Testament.[/quote] Are you sure you are a Christian? As far as I know, Old Testament is still part of the Christian Bible and quoted in many contexts.
[b]Why can't we just leave you believers alone?[/b] Why? Because Abrahamic religions all think they are the "chosen people" and everyone else is worthless trash that will burn in hell. Not true? Well maybe you should wear glasses next time you read that holy book of yours. Not just that, most of the countries are still biased towards all others but a single religion and Atheists are discriminated against in many countries. But most importantly, [b]because all "lightweight believers" form a protecting shield for violent and/or crazy zealots to hide behind and also help them in reaching their goal.[/b] The Holy Bible, especially old testament... is so sick, racist and discriminating, that I can assure you that if the bible would have been written in 2012, it wouldn't have been published in many countries.
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." [b]- Richard Dawkins[/b]
"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism. Let's now stop being so damned respectful!" [b]- Richard Dawkins[/b]
You believe in God? Well, I believe that we should build bridges and not barriers. Religion does not only build barriers between people, it also violates basic human rights and brainwashes children who are too young to know what they are getting theirselves into. Billions of people have died because of religions, and billions more will die in the future, if people don't start to think with their own brains.
Tell me, if you are a good Christian, do you avoid eating sea creatures that lack scales and/or fins? Do you call for the death of girls who don't get married as a virgin?[/quote]
A good christian wouldn't like what they were doing. But they would still love them anyways.
[quote=Snovvy]@FightTheWar: No, strawman, I'm not saying he's worse. Lol. And yeah, other than that, I agree with everything you say.
You should look at me more as a populist than as a liberal.[/quote]
I might be populist if I didn't realize that most Americans are pathetic losers who can't even point to the US on a map, much less the UK or Russia or China (and there's stupid people on both sides). Seriously, we have Americans suing McDonald's because they're overweight, it's that bad. How is it that less than half of all adults can name the three branches of the federal government (something I could do in elementary school)? All this information is readily available online, and far more than half of all adult Americans have access to the internet, but people are too busy researching their favorite celebrities/sports teams/bands to pay any attention or care. It sickens me just how pathetic this situation is and even though I disagree with you and Uiluj (I don't remember his name exactly, but you know who I mean) at least I give you credit for being informed enough to form your own opinions.
[quote=Snovvy]@FightTheWar: And Rick Santorum is a Republican. You're point? xD I hope you're not trying to use a guilt-by-association fallacy to discredit democrats just because there are some morons who are democrats.
Yes, some events have been proven to actually occur. This proves that some of the events occurred. Yes, there is proof that Jesus Christ actually existed. This proves that he existed. However, there is no proof that Jesus Christ was magical, and you can't use the proof of one thing as evidence of something completely different.[/quote]
You honestly think Santorum (who I myself can't stand) saying he wants to ban gay marriage is as bad as Phelps, who goes to funerals of dead gay people (and also opposes gay marriage) and harasses grieving relatives? And of course I'm not trying to use a guilt-by-association to blame Democrats for homophobia, I realize that the Republicans are overwhelmingly the party of homophobia (racism is another story though, the Democrats are definitely the guilty party there), and I criticize them for it.
[quote=Snovvy]@Rtyu: Oh, I'm sure morality is subjective to Christians. Should we protest military funerals because there is a "possibility" that someone gay might be there? Some Christians definitely think so.[/quote]
Oh, speaking of Fred Phelps, I thought I'd use this opportunity to point out that he's actually a Democrat (I'm completely serious).
[quote=DrRimming6]Whenever Christians stop shoving religion down throats and whenever Atheists stop bashing. I'm a Christian and yes I am that 00.01% that doesn't judge people for their beliefs. God said himself not to judge people for what they believe, he gave us life to do whatever we want freely. Don't want to believe in Religion? Fine. It's your life not ours. Just my 2 cents[/quote] you must have some strange definition of whatever we want freely
Almost every single atheist is an "agnostic atheist." Almost every single "agnostic" is an "agnostic atheist."[/quote]
They BELIEVE there is no God, I suppose you could call it a lack of belief. I take the more realistic 'not claiming to know the answer', though I will say that when a friend or relative dies, believing there is no God is certainly not something I'd find appealing. Just an opinion.
The ignorance will only stop when atheists realize their belief is not appealing and quit trying to shove the whole 'there is no God' crap and take a 'there's no way to currently know for sure' stance.
[quote=Jacinda]In all reality, Jesus loves the atheists. And Christian's are meant to be sharing Christ's love with the world. So Christian's should love the atheists. Christian's should love the gays. Christian's should love the criminals. Regardless of what someone has done, a Christian should love them for who they are. I am saddened to see the judgement that is coming from the Church. We aren't called to condemn, but to share the love of Christ, regardless of whether someone believes or not. This doesn't mean forcing any beliefs on anyone, either. It means accepting someone whether or not they accept what you believe.
I think that less and less people approve of Christianity because of the way that many church's (not all, though) portray themselves. So in the near future atheism will likely be more common than Christianity.[/quote]
Are you sure about the gay ones. S:. okay treat them like everyone else, but jesus doesn't want gays
86 Comments • Newest first
[quote=QuantumCode]I will leave this conversation on this quote:
"This is the true horror of religion: It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own. If you wake up tomorrow morning thinking that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes is going to turn them into the body of Elvis Presley - you have lost your mind. But if you think the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus you're just a Catholic." - Sam Harris[/quote]
I'll leave you with this quote.
"Man is a creature whose substance is faith. What his faith is, he is." -Chapter 17 Verse 3 of the Bhagavad Gita
@Snovvy: I'm sorry I must have misinterpreted you. I thought your previous post was sarcastic.
@Snovvy: I realize that extremists are not the norm. I was just asking if an "atrocious act committed by a Muslim and justified by the Koran" is ever deemed legitimate by the larger Islamic community.
[quote=Snovvy]Tell me a recent event where a Muslim committed an atrocious act and was justified by the Qur'an. There are none.[/quote]
I'm legitimately curious on this one. Can you provide an example where a Muslim committed an atrocious act and was justified by the Koran and also [b]accepted by the larger Islamic community?[/b]. Every group has it's extremists. It's when extremists become the norm when things get really bad.
as long as there is uncertainty in the world, christianity and religion in general will never die down.
[quote=QuantumCode]In my eyes, it doesn't matter if religion has caused the most people to die in history, or is the tenth on the list. It has caused many people to die, it has caused many people to commit terrible acts in the name of their Gods, it has promoted deep levels of intolerance, and so much more. It isn't justified by saying something else topped it in its heinousness.
I may have worded my stance on its necessity incorrectly. What I mean is that religion does not do a SINGLE good thing that people couldn't do without religion. That makes it unnecessary.[/quote]
But if you condemn religion, than surely you would condemn the others on the list? Things such as political science? Capitalism causes a lot of problems for poorer nations, including poverty and death. Does Capitalism have no place in the world? Again, I'll repeat what I said earlier.
[quote=Im2noob]Are these good things? No. Are these bad things? No. History is studied objectively, not from a moral standpoint. Religion played and continues to play it's part in shaping history. It's a fascinating how it's moved people. Religion has it's place in history alongside war and genocide but also with science, culture, prosperity, and learning. Don't be too quick to say "corrupting our world'. Open your mind and you can see so much more.[/quote]
Perhaps you would understand better with a quote from Gandalf?
[quote=Gandalf]Frodo: It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.
Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. [b]Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. [/b]My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. [b]The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many[/b].[/quote]
And religion is in my opinion one of the greatest unifying forces in the world, and in that way, one of the most influential forces in the world. It is not easy to bring a body of people together. Religion excels at this. Sure it's technically possible to unify people in other ways. It just happens to be much easier via religion. The Pope's influence crosses national borders. Warring people pilgrimage together to Mecca every year for the Hajj.
[quote=QuantumCode]I'd say you were wrong. While there are some religions that don't do harm, such as Buddhism, there are others that have had tremendously bad impacts. I wouldn't bring up wars, I'm in full understanding that we as humans can be a violent species regardless of ideology.
Religion gives otherwise good people -justification- for doing horrendous acts. There is nothing else that I can think of that would promote people to believe by the masses that suicide bombing is a holy act, and that God will embrace you for it. Nothing that would tell a mother that it's okay for her son to sacrifice himself by triggering a mine because he will go to heaven for it. Nothing that would tell HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people that it's okay to hate and kill people because of their sexual preferences. Yes, in the past it has had its place. It doesn't now.
Religion is now a crutch for those who complain that "science is too difficult".[/quote]
Yes I agree that religion gives people the excuse to commit horrendous acts. I would also argue that horrendous act after horrendous act makes up a good portion of human history. One man's victory is another man's loss. That's the way it's always been. It's the very essence of human history. Don't focus on how many people died. Focus on what [b]changed.[/b]
Sure suicide bombers believe they are doing it for God. And Christian soldiers who in there defense Malta and Vienna, likely saved much of Europe from Turkish domination, from the Ottomans also believed they were warriors of God. See what I'm saying? The historical effects of the Reconquista were much, much greater than just "it was horrible because thousands died".
Oh and just an fyi, the conflict between democracy, Nazism, and Marxism killed more people than likely ever religious war combined in the past century. Is political science the scourge of this world? Is Karl Marx, a philosopher who died penniless and who's ideas were only implemented years after his death, the evilest man in history? Political science isn't the only thing that gives people an excuse to kill other people. Simple economic factors have had humans fighting for centuries now. Are the laws of supply and demand humanity's new worst enemy? Why single out religion?
And religion has no place in history today? Are you saying the Middle East does not share Islam as an unifying factor? And Buddhism and the Dalai Lama have no implications towards Tibetan independence either?
@Megatron: No, but your other points were valid
@Megatron: 10* commandments
[quote=dragon66]ss of god or bs. that's all imma say.[/quote]
There's many things science can't "ss" and still we know they exist, so that claim is ridiculous.
I myself am open to "any" religion, altho i strongly believe in science, because it is something than CAN be proven and measurable.
Like the demon slayer girl said, some scientists like Stephen Hawking have actually come to the beginning of the universe, and is not only because of "gravity". There's several other measurable physical facts that can prove it. And wanting to go even further back with the question "if there was nothing, who invented that" or such...only makes you seem worse. If people really educated themselves with true science, some of those claims could be avoided.
Then again, staying close-minded to any religion practically makes you as ignorant as you claim any christian is. So one piece of advice is -read- as much as you can.
Some good lectures are various philosophical currents. My favourite author is Nietzsche, who really "attacks" religion, but makes a good point.
People don't have to believe only one thing, you can take tiny bits of everything that you choose to believe.
On the other hand, christians "force" us to "follow" their beliefs even if we do not believe in their claims. (i.e go to hell if you don't believe) Hell is something christians made up, if i choose not to believe in heaven or hell but on other religions or simply nothing after death. That doesn't make me any more ignorant.
[quote=QuantumCode]You people do realize the trap Christians are putting on you? They're turning it into a game of semantics: "No, you're an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST! Not an ATHEIST!". Ignore these claims and get to the root of the problem: their unsubstantiated belief in a deity has been crippling the world. They push their ideology in the political realm and watch us quibble over silly terminology. We're free thinkers. We believe in reality. You don't have to fall under the labels Christians are setting up.[/quote]
From a purely historical standpoint religion is not seen as a positive or negative force. I'm not seeing where you're getting "crippling the world" from. History would have been drastically different without religion. This is neither a good or bad thing. You may bring up the example of wars, but the reality is [b]wars will happen anyway. Eliminating religion as a factor will not create world peace[/b]. Oh and just as a reminder after the fall of Rome in the West, it was the Catholic church that kept learning alive. The Bedouin tribes of Arabia were nobodies in 600 AD. After Islam and unification they were the most powerful empire in the world.
Are these positive or negative things? Would Arabs have been been the force they were if it weren't for Islam? Could Europe have stood against the Arab onslaught without the unification that came with Christianity? Would have Constantinople fallen sooner if it weren't for the Crusades? What about the Reconquista? Would Spain have retaken the Iberian peninsula if the Reconquista was not in part a Holy War? And without Iberia, geographically most suitable for westward expansion. would the discovery of the New World have been delayed? Would the New World have been colonized as fast if it were if groups were not escaping religious freedom?
Swing to the other side of the world. For 2000 years China structured it's government on Confucianism (yeah I know it's not really a religion but people love to consider it one). Buddhist monasteries were centers of culture and learning. In India religion unifies and divides.
Are these good things? No. Are these bad things? No. History is studied objectively, not from a moral standpoint. Religion played and continues to play it's part in shaping history. It's a fascinating how it's moved people. Religion has it's place in history alongside war and genocide but also with science, culture, prosperity, and learning. Don't be too quick to say "corrupting our world'. Open your mind and you can see so much more.
@Megatron: How the hell is it astrological?
[quote=Satellite]
If no one gave a damn about anything, we would still be living the stone age.[/quote]
Yeah true. You can give a damn about some things but when you give a damn about everything, things tend to turn south. Just be Zen.
[quote=Megatron]Because your implying god exists in your statement.
Horus -Egypt
Dionysus -Greece
"Jesus Christ"
Mithra-India
Attis
Krishna-India
Born of the virgin
All the same attributes
All performed miracles
All were born Dec. 25th
Dead for 3 days
Ressurected
Each with 12 disciples.
Why all the same?[/quote]
Because belief can come in any shape or form.
The internet has increased Atheism, so I'm not surprised if Christianity will slowly degrade.
@Megatron: Umm, records of his trial prior to his crucifixion?
it already has.
dead people can't believe or practice religion, right?
And number of people who lived on this planet>people alive right now.
@Megatron: Then you havent read the 24000 manuscripts written by the disciples. And no, they didnt write all of the, they were copies from other people.
@Snovvy: lol I'm sorry, I just think that your guys' argument has kind of stopped, as you're saying a lot of the same things over and over.
@Rtyu and @Snovvy are perfect examples of what basilmarket religion wars are like
@Rtyu: Girl you've won the argument.
He is just really mad at this point (as you can see), and he's resorting to the old, "LOL" and mocking you because he's afraid of losing.
I think maybe the OP is being ironic with his question
When will Atheists and Christians shut the hell up and realize that no one cares?
@ Rtyu
Just becareful when your debating. The conversation tends to go off track.
@ Rtyu
The majority of basilmarket are athiests. Debating won't change their minds.
[quote=KnifeLegend]How about the Ten Commandments?[/quote]
Ten commandments are also followed but there's stuff in the New Testament that are even more important. At least that's what I believe.
Wait...the amount of people that put never is almost disgusting. I just hope that's people trolling and not what people truly think.
As soon as christians stop believing science is the work of the devil.
[quote=Rtyu]I follow the New Testament.[/quote]
How about the Ten Commandments?
[quote=Rtyu]@Snovvy: But he did not tell us to kill people.[/quote]
[url=http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm]Read the bible again.[/url]
And while you are it, you should probably consider taking an [url=http://www.free-iqtest.net/]IQ test[/url].
This thread is pointless, because having a logical argument with a believer is like playing chess with a pigeon. It will knock down all the pieces, crap on the chess board and fly among other pigeons to swagger about how he won the game.
[quote=Cooliee124]People need to learn not to give a damn.[/quote]
If no one gave a damn about anything, we would still be living the stone age.
People need to learn not to give a damn.
[quote=Snovvy]@DarkThrone: I don't know if many people are doing it because it "makes them look smarter" I think it has to do with how senseless religion is.
And in this book which blatantly contradicts itself in the New Testament, do you really think it's worth trusting? How do you know that theme was human error, or god's will?[/quote]
Can you point out the blatant contradictions?
[quote=Darkthrone]@Snovvy: Nope. It's not people who have researched reason for it, it's people who think being atheist makes them look smarter, so they stick to [i]knowing[/i] there is no god.[/quote]
I don't know that there is no god. I'm convinced there's no god. There's a huge difference. I'm aware that there's a chance God exists. That chance is about as big as the chance that toothfairies or a flying Alien-potato-spaghetti-Duyngdaydilpertizermegaman exists.
[quote=Snovvy]Is that in the Bible, or did a random apologist just make it up? [/quote]
Well, it's a theme that can be seen through the Bible.
[quote=Snovvy]A good Christian would do as the Bible says, and call for the death of women who marry as virgins.
Or wait, is it up for interpretation? Gee, then it's subjective, which makes the definition of a "good Christian" vary from person to person.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk]It is impossible to take the Bible literally. Therefore, you must interpret it.[/url][/quote]
The Old Testament law is still the heart of the Gospel, but the judgements have simply changed. In other words, God still considers it sin, but people are no longer called to execute judgement on them. That's God's job.
[quote=Rtyu]
I follow the New Testament.[/quote]
Are you sure you are a Christian? As far as I know, Old Testament is still part of the Christian Bible and quoted in many contexts.
[b]Why can't we just leave you believers alone?[/b] Why? Because Abrahamic religions all think they are the "chosen people" and everyone else is worthless trash that will burn in hell. Not true? Well maybe you should wear glasses next time you read that holy book of yours. Not just that, most of the countries are still biased towards all others but a single religion and Atheists are discriminated against in many countries. But most importantly, [b]because all "lightweight believers" form a protecting shield for violent and/or crazy zealots to hide behind and also help them in reaching their goal.[/b] The Holy Bible, especially old testament... is so sick, racist and discriminating, that I can assure you that if the bible would have been written in 2012, it wouldn't have been published in many countries.
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
[b]- Richard Dawkins[/b]
"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism. Let's now stop being so damned respectful!"
[b]- Richard Dawkins[/b]
You believe in God? Well, I believe that we should build bridges and not barriers. Religion does not only build barriers between people, it also violates basic human rights and brainwashes children who are too young to know what they are getting theirselves into. Billions of people have died because of religions, and billions more will die in the future, if people don't start to think with their own brains.
[quote=Snovvy]Ah, a no true scotsman fallacy.
Tell me, if you are a good Christian, do you avoid eating sea creatures that lack scales and/or fins? Do you call for the death of girls who don't get married as a virgin?[/quote]
A good christian wouldn't like what they were doing. But they would still love them anyways.
[quote=Snovvy]@FightTheWar: No, strawman, I'm not saying he's worse. Lol. And yeah, other than that, I agree with everything you say.
You should look at me more as a populist than as a liberal.[/quote]
I might be populist if I didn't realize that most Americans are pathetic losers who can't even point to the US on a map, much less the UK or Russia or China (and there's stupid people on both sides). Seriously, we have Americans suing McDonald's because they're overweight, it's that bad. How is it that less than half of all adults can name the three branches of the federal government (something I could do in elementary school)? All this information is readily available online, and far more than half of all adult Americans have access to the internet, but people are too busy researching their favorite celebrities/sports teams/bands to pay any attention or care. It sickens me just how pathetic this situation is and even though I disagree with you and Uiluj (I don't remember his name exactly, but you know who I mean) at least I give you credit for being informed enough to form your own opinions.
[quote=Snovvy]@FightTheWar: And Rick Santorum is a Republican. You're point? xD I hope you're not trying to use a guilt-by-association fallacy to discredit democrats just because there are some morons who are democrats.
Yes, some events have been proven to actually occur. This proves that some of the events occurred. Yes, there is proof that Jesus Christ actually existed. This proves that he existed. However, there is no proof that Jesus Christ was magical, and you can't use the proof of one thing as evidence of something completely different.[/quote]
You honestly think Santorum (who I myself can't stand) saying he wants to ban gay marriage is as bad as Phelps, who goes to funerals of dead gay people (and also opposes gay marriage) and harasses grieving relatives? And of course I'm not trying to use a guilt-by-association to blame Democrats for homophobia, I realize that the Republicans are overwhelmingly the party of homophobia (racism is another story though, the Democrats are definitely the guilty party there), and I criticize them for it.
[quote=Snovvy]@Rtyu: Oh, I'm sure morality is subjective to Christians. Should we protest military funerals because there is a "possibility" that someone gay might be there? Some Christians definitely think so.[/quote]
Oh, speaking of Fred Phelps, I thought I'd use this opportunity to point out that he's actually a Democrat (I'm completely serious).
[quote=Megatron]Because your implying god exists in your statement.
Horus -Egypt
Dionysus -Greece
"Jesus Christ"
Mithra-India
Attis
Krishna-India
Born of the virgin
All the same attributes
All performed miracles
All were born Dec. 25th
Dead for 3 days
Ressurected
Each with 12 disciples.
Why all the same?[/quote]
Umm, the events that happened during the period Jesus lived in have proof of it happening.
[quote=DrRimming6]Whenever Christians stop shoving religion down throats and whenever Atheists stop bashing.
I'm a Christian and yes I am that 00.01% that doesn't judge people for their beliefs. God said himself not to judge people for what they believe, he gave us life to do whatever we want freely. Don't want to believe in Religion? Fine. It's your life not ours. Just my 2 cents[/quote]
you must have some strange definition of whatever we want freely
[quote=Snovvy]LolololOLOLoloLOl. Fail. Atheists "lack belief."
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QdYoufb0UsQ/TAimA3truGI/AAAAAAAAAA4/pcR-muRgp8c/s1600/Agnostic+v+Gnostic+v+Atheist+v+Theist.png
Almost every single atheist is an "agnostic atheist."
Almost every single "agnostic" is an "agnostic atheist."[/quote]
They BELIEVE there is no God, I suppose you could call it a lack of belief. I take the more realistic 'not claiming to know the answer', though I will say that when a friend or relative dies, believing there is no God is certainly not something I'd find appealing. Just an opinion.
The ignorance will only stop when atheists realize their belief is not appealing and quit trying to shove the whole 'there is no God' crap and take a 'there's no way to currently know for sure' stance.
@kuora:
I so embarassing
I now know of two things that infinite within the universe
1) Religious debate threads
2) The amount of Zubats in a cave
[quote=Jacinda]In all reality, Jesus loves the atheists. And Christian's are meant to be sharing Christ's love with the world. So Christian's should love the atheists. Christian's should love the gays. Christian's should love the criminals. Regardless of what someone has done, a Christian should love them for who they are.
I am saddened to see the judgement that is coming from the Church. We aren't called to condemn, but to share the love of Christ, regardless of whether someone believes or not. This doesn't mean forcing any beliefs on anyone, either. It means accepting someone whether or not they accept what you believe.
I think that less and less people approve of Christianity because of the way that many church's (not all, though) portray themselves. So in the near future atheism will likely be more common than Christianity.[/quote]
Are you sure about the gay ones. S:. okay treat them like everyone else, but jesus doesn't want gays
I was under the impression it was already winning, at least it is in my neighborhood