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Russia Annexes Crimea

And people still believe that this was a bad thing to do?

Why Russia got involved (for dummies):

So Ukrainians weren't happy with changes to policies (Constitution) made by their ex-President Yanukovych.
Yanukovych agreed to compromise a deal that would hand powers back over to parliament effective December 2014.
Despite this, protesters became violent and both militants and civilians were killed as rioters tried to take more ground.

This Russian-supported president was illegitimately overthrown late February and fled to Russia. Protests got so violent (with buildings being destroyed and public services having to be stopped) that politicians and a large portion of the citizens of Crimea [b]asked Russia to protect them[/b] from the Ukrainian rebellion. Since Crimeans are traditionally Russian (in 1954 Russia transferred Crimea over to Ukraine), there was (and still is) a [b]lot[/b] of support for the annexation.

I bet you didn't hear this in Fox News. Discuss.

March 26, 2014

14 Comments • Newest first

ehnogi

@metaghost4: A more accurate comparison would be if the United States gave California to Mexico, then 50 years later annexed California when Mexico was on the brink of Civil War.

Russians didn't move into Crimea. Crimea was originally a part of Russia until the 1950s. Ukrainians moved into Crimea.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
ehnogi

@imtwocats:

They didn't ban public protesting, and they weren't "legally obligated" (by any law, universal or government) to overthrow anyone.

Rest of your argument:

You automatically assume that the estate Yanukovych lived in was "paid for" by Ukrainian tax dollars (as if he used their taxes to live lavishly). This isn't true either.
Just because a political figure is wealthy doesn't mean that he used revenue to pay for it. It's a very simple 99%er way of thinking. His salary was under $30,000 a year; people see a bunch of his assets and think "Wow he must've taken more from the [b]people[/b]" without considering the many supporters he had who pretty much gave him his fortune.

It's okay to hate a man for being corrupt, but fabricating lies and propaganda (to use his wealth to further exaggerate his corruption) is wrong. Besides, his significance is pretty low with this entire issue. The Ukraine was going to be unstable regardless of who was in charge, and anyone could've seen that by simply [b]paying attention to their economy[/b]. This isn't about Yanukovych; that's only a tangent of the issue. This is about how Crimeans reacted toward the Ukrainians ousting their government.

You also assume that votes were faked for the annexation of Crimea; you can literally [b]observe[/b] ANY news (even news who used to pitch this whole "Russians wrongfully invaded Crimea" idea) to see that Crimeans want to separate from the Ukraine.

On Internet Censorship:
I think people exaggerate how bad internet censorship is when they hear about it. It's one thing to deny access to the rest of the world, but it's different when you simply regulate classified information and/or remove terrorist propaganda that is deeply embedded within the 30% of those who are in poverty. You do know that a lot of nations have some sort of censorship over their internet (to prevent crime), right? The US has many, [b]many[/b] regulations on the internet.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
Gmayn

Russia is slowly working on their plan to reinstall the USSR.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
imtwocats

@ehnogi: I'm not lying. Why would I bother to lie in a simple discussion? They clearly had bans on public protesting which were put in place after protests started about Ukraine gaining closer ties with Russia instead of the E.U. Anyways, you completely ignored the rest of my argument that the protestors were legally obligated to overthrow a corrupt president (Yanukovych) working with another corrupt president (Putin). Russia is currently just taking what they can get with Crimea since they know they can't take the rest of Ukraine without triggering war.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
ehnogi

@imtwocats:

You are wrong when you say that they banned peaceful protesting. You're introducing false statements in your bias. Bias is fine because people who form their own opinions can see right through it, but lying is just not a good thing to do.

This would be a proper biased statement :

The restrictions placed on protesters aimed to prevent hindrance in communities (You can't block people's homes or obstruct buildings while protesting. You can't block traffic, and you can't take up a bunch of space by setting up tents and blasting loud music.)

or

The restrictions placed on protesters aimed to pacify the citizens. (Internet censorship, you can't defame the government, guilty before proven innocent, etc.)

Not :

They banned peaceful protests.

I support Russia for reclaiming their strategic Crimea. They were going to do it sooner or later, and they did it at the opportune moment.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
imtwocats

@ehnogi: It's the way you phrase them. It's so clearly biased towards the Russians. I'll write out my own biased paragraph favoring the Ukrainians. Ukrainians weren't happy with the changes to their government because it was basically the equivalent of starting a dictatorship. They banned peaceful public protesting and attempted to censor the internet along with introducing many other ridiculous laws into place. With no way of protesting peacefully, they were forced to stand up for themselves against a corrupt government. In response, riot police used live ammunition and beat up hundreds of civilians in an attempt to scare the protestors into obedience. They even beat up a bus filled with pro-government supporters without hesitation as they thought they were part of the protests.

The corrupt president was legitimately ousted and fled to Russia in order to avoid corruption charges and most likely life in prison. [url=http://imgur.com/gallery/3ksac]He left behind his fancy mansion, paid for by Ukrainian tax payers.[/url] The protests immediately started to stop after this, however the illegal intervention and aggression by Russian military forces escalated the conflict once more. Crimea was soon annexed illegally and the votes faked in order to make it seem like people supported the Russians.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
Stivik007

[quote=Zoneflare4]Thats because no one in their right mind would want that country.[/quote]

Mmm...worth considering that the only time it was conquered at all was by the Spaniards, I guess.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
ehnogi

@imtwocats:

Actually no.
Do you think that my information is incorrect?
If you do, please point out which event did not happen.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
Zoneflare4

[quote=Stivik007]And? Mexico is still a sovereign.[/quote]
Thats because no one in their right mind would want that country.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
imtwocats

So I'm guessing you're getting all your information from Russian controlled news sources. Also Natalya reminds me of Hawkeye from Fullmetal Alchemist.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
RandomUsername

post pics of natalia while you are at it

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
Stivik007

[quote=Chema]Rusia "protects" Crimea just as much USA "protects" Mexico[/quote]

And? Mexico is still a sovereign.

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
ehnogi

@Chema:

Complete false analogy. Disappoint.

Ask the voters in Crimea what they want.

You would've made a reasonable analogy if you used a province of a nation whose government was overthrown and had their power seized by force. That province would also need the desire to separate from said nation.

#foxnewsisbetterthanlogic

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited
Chema

Rusia "protects" Crimea just as much USA "protects" Mexico

Reply March 26, 2014 - edited