How evasion skills work. The sad reality
EDIT: It seems that IS was just glitched for me, and it DOES help (seemingly like Shadow Shifter).
By MelliMelon:
First I will start with the [b]facts[/b] that I gathered from Tespia at Bearwolves:
Bearwolves have 169 accuracy. (says HS and Basil)
Without EB or IS, with 56 dex and 291 avoid: I got hit 100/100 times at Bearwolves. (Expected: 96/100. See my interpretations for explanation)
With 1 EB (~2% miss chance) and no IS (291 avoid, 56 dex): I got hit 100/100 times at Bearwolves (Expected: 96/100 - 2% so around 94/100)
With 1 EB and 27 IS (313 avoid and 93 dex): I got hit 100/100 times at bearwolves. (Expected: 95/100 - 2% - 27% so around 66/100)
After adding my stats (655 avoid and 631 dex, 1 EB and 27 IS): I got hit 95/100 times at Bearwolves. Every time I was missed, my next strafe would be all criticals. (Expected: 87/100 - 2% -27% so around 58/100)
After turning into a cygnus (thus losing all my skills), with 384 avoid and around 600 dex: I got hit 100/100 times at bearwolves. (Expected: 93/100)
Next are my [b]interpretations[/b]
Expected avoid rate is Avoid = sqrt(Your Avoid) - sqrt(Their Accuracy) and each term is rounded, I believe (don't remember up or down. It doesn't make a big difference for us).
Thus my expected avoid rate is in parentheses above.
I realize that 100 is a fairly small number of trials. However, I felt I didn't need to do more, due to the incredible unlikeliness of all these numbers being so far from the expected.
Finally, my [b]conclusions[/b]
The only numbers that wereeven CLOSE to the expected value (minus the skills of course) is when I finally added points into dexterity. Then, I had avoid and I was missed. This leads me to believe that the skills do nothing (or something so minimal it is close enough to nothing). Adding 27 points into IS didn't even increase my avoid by 27. The only increase in my avoid was due to the +27 dex that was added with the skill.
Another note: it seems fairly clear that I was missed not because of evasion boost, but because of my dex and avoid. That being said, I was still getting all crits for 1 second after the miss. Thus, I would say that if we have EB, no matter how we get missed, we get the critical. Also interesting, is that when I had NO skills (and only my base 5% critical rate), when I was missed at Jr Pepes, my next attacks were NOT critical. Thus I believe that we need at least 1 point in evasion boost to guarantee the 100% criticals, but EB and IS do not add to our avoid at all.
By the way, if you don't buy what I said about evasion boost, know this: that a few months ago (during a different Tespia), I did a run of 2000 trials, 1000 with and 1000 without evasion boost. There was almost NO difference (minus acceptable error) between the two experiments. Both had about the same miss rate as was calculated based off of my avoid and the monster's accuracy. It is no different now.
Thoughts?
10 Comments • Newest first
So it is a glitch.
So based on what I reported in my other thread we are somewhere sitting around this:
We have two dodge skills:
1) 18-38% Chance to get a MISS; thus, activating 1 Second Critical.
2) 30% Chance to get a shiny BLOCK; thus, not activating 1 Second Critical.
If these numbers are correct than we have a 43%-56% overall DODGE rate if I did my probabilities correctly, which I probably didn't. However, some tespians I have seen, say they dodge 50% of the time.
Feel free to destroy these numbers.
Now here is my concern. Unless I am completely oblivious, I have NEVER seen this Illusion dodge animation in KMS NOR have I seen any mention of it in extractions and skill posts. Which makes me wonder about some things.
If KMS does in fact have the animation then any of these may be true:
1) Based on videos I saw with frequent MISSes, EB+AVOID may attempt to activate before IS is given a chance.
2) Level 200s don't have much points in IS.
3) I am blind.
If KMS does not have the animation then any of these may be true:
1) EB+IS both show MISS animations and don't stack.
2) EB+IS both show MISS animations and do stack, meaning KMS Archers have higher dodge rate than thier GMS counterparts.
3) Wheter the skills stack or not the MISS animations allow KMS Archers to hit more 1 second criticals, this making KMS Archers statiscally stronger than GMS counterparts.
4) Some MISS animations trigger the 1 second critical and some MISS animations do not trigger the 1 second critical.
4) GMS went AWOL and wanted to make Archers more flashy. Thus GMS Archers are flashier than KMS counterparts.
@Ebilz: Great, thanks! So IS does work. I'm sure I was using it. I checked every few minutes. That's quite peculiar... Good results for you, eh?
[quote=Ebilz]Assuming IS means Illusion Step, are you sure you're actually using the skill? It's working fine for me on Tespia right now.[/quote]
Yes, I made sure (though I forgot at first, I went back and then checked constantly. That's odd. I wonder why it wouldn't be working for me. It (1) didn't increase my avoid stat and (2) I never got the shadow shifter effect/never got missed.
[quote=airforce1]Seems kind of silly to draw conclusive results about EB when it's only lvl1 (2% miss rate). That's easily within the acceptable +/- from avoid alone
You should also be careful to check if these skills are +%avoid or a separate roll like shifter. If I recall correctly, one is %avoid and the other is not[/quote]
I believe I made a note in the thread that I've already tested EB on 1000 trials. I'd say that is a fair amount for the proposed 20% dodge. As for your second point. EB is supposed to be like shadow shifter (base %) and IS seems like it should be +%avoid. Either way, it didn't help anything.
EDIT: I'm re-reading what I've posted, and I realized that I came across the wrong way. I'm not trying to say this is conclusive proof. (thread title is a bit exaggerative.) I just want to say that it looks doubtful.
[quote=airforce1]Seems kind of silly to draw conclusive results about EB when it's only lvl1 (2% miss rate). That's easily within the acceptable +/- from avoid alone
You should also be careful to check if these skills are +%avoid or a separate roll like shifter. If I recall correctly, one is %avoid and the other is not[/quote]
The main purpose of the 1 EB was to see how IS increased our avoid. I am assuming he either could not leave it at 0 or wanted 1 for reasons posted in his thread.
Seems kind of silly to draw conclusive results about EB when it's only lvl1 (2% miss rate). That's easily within the acceptable +/- from avoid alone
You should also be careful to check if these skills are +%avoid or a separate roll like shifter. If I recall correctly, one is %avoid and the other is not
Please make a report of this. However, when I had watched the BM VS Cyngus video it seemed that IL and Dodge were doing their magic as she was avoiding attacks a good 55% of the time.
EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VULK1pXf3GI
That's the vid...however..taking into consideration the amount of funds this gal probably has to do that kind of damage her dex must be insane and the same would go for her avoid.. X_X
you should submit this to nexon so they would look into it
[quote=jackexpro]Seems like a glitch is going on for you. Cos even on my bm (without IS i do get a fair amount of miss from bearwolfs) when walking pass them.
And i have seen videos of bm in tespia having abt what it seems like a 40% miss rate (Some with the char smiling when IS activates).
But you should regardless still report about it as it may be a form of glitch affecting a few others [/quote]
You get missed because of your avoid skills (on Tespia Archer mastery gives a lot of avoid) and dex. Not EB and IS I'd assume. I'll let them know about the glitch.
So, this sounds like a glitch, that needs to be reported? I don't think they should be giving us skills that don't work.