General

[quote=DanyyAu]i hope no one band wagons : i like being a rareish class[/quote]
Just wait for the 2 Goddess of Time's tears classes to come out, all the explorers will be gone again.

[quote=n0sXPIE]Kaisers, Heroes, and Arans all still out-damage Dark Knights.[/quote]

Aran's might actually be under darks very slightly after the revamp (by maybe 500% DPS, if that; the difference will be VERY small if they are?), Heroes and Kaisers are definitely above them though but I can't say anything for sure about aran's since I don't know what their best possible combination for DPS (though I think I know but I can never be for sure; I think its Final Blow -> Beyond Blade)

[quote=xidamex]you guys are where your ment to be. a support class/tank. they just need to rebuff the def a bit.[/quote]

Yeah man i really love defense buffs that are pierced by high end bosses all the time. It's really useful.

no i dont think so just by looking at the new stats i think that DKs will be strong as the heros or more

hero is the most powerful and the most amazing adventurer warrior by far, next is pally, and ONCE AGAIN, DrK is at the bottom.

wow nice and thanks for the infos and no sorry i wasnt CO yesterday but its okay

[quote=Frenki6596]GUYS I HAVE SOME NEWS

Beholder: cooldown has been decreased from 120 seconds to 60
Berserker

Beholder's Buff: attack boost has been increased from 30 to 40, new critical chance boost of 10% has been added
Dark Knight

Gungnir Descent: delay has been decreased, cooldown has been decreased from 20 seconds to 8 seconds, new effect of 30% defense ignore has been added
Dark Impale: damage has been increased from 235% to 269%, number of monsters hit has been increased from 6 to 8, defense ignore has been removed
Sacrifice: defense ignore boost has been decreased from 30% to 10%, new effect of 10% boss damage has been added, duration has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds, passive effect of 30% defense ignore has been added
Reincarnation: now ignores damage reflect while you are invincible, cooldown has been decreased from 600 seconds to 360 seconds
New! Gungnir Descent - Reinforce: Gungnir Descent's damage is increased by 20%.
New! Gungnir Descent - Ignore Guard: Gungnir Descent's defense ignored is increased by 20%.
New! Gungnir Descent - Boss Killer: Gungnir Descent's damage to bosses is increased by 20%[/quote]

Not meaning to sound rude or anything but I posted a thread about those changes yesterday =P in the Drk section. Apparently Gungnir is 8700% per cast after the revamp on normal mobs (roughly) and 9500% (again roughly) on bosses after you factor in all the multipliers; to be exact the math is: 4.43 x 1.5 x (1+1.1+0.2+1+[b]0.1+0.2[/b]) x 4 (the bolded part only applies if you're facing a boss) multiply the end result by 100 for the % gungnir does assuming the mob in question has 0 defense.

GUYS I HAVE SOME NEWS

Beholder: cooldown has been decreased from 120 seconds to 60
Berserker

Beholder's Buff: attack boost has been increased from 30 to 40, new critical chance boost of 10% has been added
Dark Knight

Gungnir Descent: delay has been decreased, cooldown has been decreased from 20 seconds to 8 seconds, new effect of 30% defense ignore has been added
Dark Impale: damage has been increased from 235% to 269%, number of monsters hit has been increased from 6 to 8, defense ignore has been removed
Sacrifice: defense ignore boost has been decreased from 30% to 10%, new effect of 10% boss damage has been added, duration has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds, passive effect of 30% defense ignore has been added
Reincarnation: now ignores damage reflect while you are invincible, cooldown has been decreased from 600 seconds to 360 seconds
New! Gungnir Descent - Reinforce: Gungnir Descent's damage is increased by 20%.
New! Gungnir Descent - Ignore Guard: Gungnir Descent's defense ignored is increased by 20%.
New! Gungnir Descent - Boss Killer: Gungnir Descent's damage to bosses is increased by 20%

[quote=CaptCandy]Kaiser with 100% crit just got buffed 5x stronger.[/quote]

If you're referring to how crit seems to get stronger with each line as of the recent patch in KMST. That was confirmed to be a glitch.
(it also works for just about every class; there was a dark with only a 30k range (buffed) hitting 800k's with nightshade explosion on the last line)

no we are talking about the Adventurers revamp

Kaiser with 100% crit just got buffed 5x stronger.

dark knights still need adequate 1/1 protection or they'll die to czak just like that *snaps*

[quote=SombraManx]@MyKarma: haha. don't make me laugh

so, now you are sayign that we are talking about unrealistic %'s under the fastest tab? get out... you don't even know how much HP does a snail have

Get off[/quote]

Let me break this down for you since you having trouble reading:

My first post: 'Did you check under the hypers tab?' See that I never even mentioned anything about either speed or %s. It was just a question.

My next 2 posts are merely replies towards your insults, you're just assuming that I don't know anything about Drks, you're just assuming that I don't know that Drks can only achieve speed 3 with booster and lastly, your argument is completely based on assumption.

I think I'm done here, if you want to go ahead and insult me further, go ahead, I don't need to insult you to show you that you're wrong.

@MyKarma: haha. don't make me laugh

so, now you are sayign that we are talking about unrealistic %'s under the fastest tab? get out... you don't even know how much HP does a snail have

Get off

@SombraManx:

Since when were we even talking about weapon speed? We were talking about the %s of Drks after the red update and I raised a question.
Keep on bashing, I know for a fact that I know more about Drks than you.

@calabari:

It's one thing to have higher damage, but it would literally take a Drk and an Aran after the Red update to match a hero. I don't want them to be on par with heroes, but I don't want them to be left in the dust either, since even after the update we're pretty low on the damage charts while heroes continue to shine.

@MyKarma: so sad, been playing drk since 2007 and still don't even know that they can't reach faster 2 on their own?

[quote=calabari]If DrKs were on par with heroes damage-wise, there would be no reason to play a hero.
DrKs have CRAZY healing, bigger range, can revive now, have a better/more party skills, more HP, and more.

Heroes are meant to dish out damage. Paladins have more defense and party skills, really, Heroes are meant to do more damage.
Now I agree that it shouldn't be a whole lot, but it's our only advantage, heroes are built to do damage, not much of anything else, and yet we still fall far behind many of the new classes.[/quote]

Not like there's much of an objective reason to play a hero anyway. DA and Kaiser beat on you in terms of damage, you have /one/ attack, and you're decidedly mundane. If you're playing a hero its for personal reasons, so...your argument is fallacious.

@xxsetokid You have the strongest thief and mage.

We adventurers will never be the strongest in our respective classes

If DrKs were on par with heroes damage-wise, there would be no reason to play a hero.
DrKs have CRAZY healing, bigger range, can revive now, have a better/more party skills, more HP, and more.

Heroes are meant to dish out damage. Paladins have more defense and party skills, really, Heroes are meant to do more damage.
Now I agree that it shouldn't be a whole lot, but it's our only advantage, heroes are built to do damage, not much of anything else, and yet we still fall far behind many of the new classes.

They removed dragon buster,dragon roar and dragon thrash what a waste T_T

@SombraManx:

If I don't know anything about Drks? oh please, I've been playing my drk since 2007.
You're the same guy that makes up bogus arguments and then tries to support them, I'm not even going to bother...

@MyKarma: indeed, 6775% WITH hypers

yes, I used the faster 3 speed tab since is the max that a Drk can get without Speed infusion or inners

If you don't know anything about Drks, don't quote me...

yeah, it is like 330%+110$ of max hp 4 times so it would be very OP and spamable easily AND do not forget that DK will have a skill that will make them do double damage when they activate it

[quote=jjohnson10]110% of your max HP is at most, what, 60k additional damage? On a skill that is only spammable for 20 seconds? A boon for unfunded players, but a drop in the pond for those capping each line of DI.[/quote]

Slight correction, the damage of gungnir is actually +110% total damage when your hp is maxed; not 110% of your max hp, slight mistranslation XD (it can also be spammed during sacrifice btw)

OT: It'll be nice if crossover chains becomes a 2.0 multiplier rather than a 100% total damage increase since our damage would be 4 times its base value; instead of 2.5 times it (the passive 1.5 on reincarnation is still a multiplier)

I also think that Gungnir deserves a buff to its damage, maybe make it 700% +110% total damage x 4. It'd make us sort of burst damagers since its not like we can use gungnir often (I believe its spammable for 30 seconds every 120 seconds) with our normal damage outside those spam periods being okay, but not great. Whereas during those periods of burst damage we would have exceptionally high damage. Thats how I think it should be.

[quote=Frenki6596]No cause i do not know if you saw it but dk would be able to spam 443% + 110 of our max hp 4times THIS LOOKS SO OP and we have a skill that make us do DOUBLE damage so i think that why they will the strongest Warrior (between adventurers and cygnus)[/quote]

110% of your max HP is at most, what, 60k additional damage? On a skill that is only spammable for 20 seconds? A boon for unfunded players, but a drop in the pond for those capping each line of DI.

Heroes will still be stronger; while Dark Knights have 1.9x additional damage to work with, Heroes have 2.65x (2.85x? How does Reinforce work on a passive skill?) plus a bunch of additional critical damage, a stronger main attack, and more ATK, assuming these RED changes are the ones that go through.

[quote=MaplexHero]I think Bishops just need to have Angel Ray back to the way it was (Animation can stay, it looks awesome, but increase the speed and give 1 line back). If they do that, I think all bishops will be extremely happy.[/quote]

I agree!
Why take away our 1 line on Angel Ray and Big Bang!

@xidamex: But this is Maple, not "other" MMORPG.
The concept of "tankers" does not exist in Maple. How do you "tank" in Maple anyway?

[quote=TheLoyalPlum]Pre-bb wasn't just yesterday or just last month, it was 2 years ago. I do not think pre-bb is considered current or recent. Dinosaurs weren't "rare" 100 million years ago. Not many people go for dark knights these days, and it's sometimes nice to have random people go "wow I thought noone made drk anymore" every now and then.[/quote]

hahaha i get that all the time.

[quote=SombraManx]@lazershock: joe tang just did calcs

6775% dps

[url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=47548&page=34]drk sux[/url][/quote]

Did you check under the hypers tab?

mihilie pride

@lazershock: joe tang just did calcs

6775% dps

[url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=47548&page=34]drk sux[/url]

[quote=HastyHeist]are you kidding? everyone had a DrK pre-bb. DrKs were never "rare"[/quote]
Pre-bb wasn't just yesterday or just last month, it was 2 years ago. I do not think pre-bb is considered current or recent. Dinosaurs weren't "rare" 100 million years ago. Not many people go for dark knights these days, and it's sometimes nice to have random people go "wow I thought noone made drk anymore" every now and then.

[quote=DanyyAu]i hope no one band wagons : i like being a rareish class[/quote]
are you kidding? everyone had a DrK pre-bb. DrKs were never "rare"

[quote=xidamex]during kms revamp they can also revive, give def, and i think heal.[/quote]

But I dont think they were meant to be a support class?

@Clinical:

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT MAGES </3

No bandwagon please!

@SombraManx: no im saying thats what their DPS WOULD be if reincarnation was multiplicative like it was as berserk (shinku did calculations on them for both reincarnation as 50%, and reincarnation as 1.5 *which are the total damage %'s; and multiplier %'s respectively) at the moment in KMS(T) impale is 7459% and gungnir is 9876%. The 9k and 12.6k only apply if reincarnation goes back to being a 1.5 multiplier. Hopefully it does

I apologize if there was any confusion as to what I was referring to by the way, the CURRENT KMST and gungnir suck; that can change though in a heartbeat if reincarnation goes back to being a multiplier (and I really have no idea WHY that was changed to begin with) I also know that total damage is bad, its quite annoying to be honest that they made crossover chains % total damage instead of a flat out multiplier.

@lazershock: where did u got those numbers? it seems fake as hell, plus total dmg = worse because its additive and not multiplicative (like heroes ACA)

and yeah, I knew the gugnir thing already, I've been talking to a plenty of pros Drk about the revamp...

gugnir is not 12.6k dps, you are wrong.. and dark impale is not 9k dps..

@SombraManx: Not sure how much of a change heroes got; (and yeah I know gungnir is a skill that can only be used to a certain amount due to its extensive cooldown) but I believe if reincarnation gets changed back to a multiplier (apparently both it and crossover chains are % total damage now) Dark Impale becomes around 9k DPS and Gungnir becomes 12.6k DPS. AFAIK the Hero % damages are still multipliers (not sure if that'll be changed to % total damage like ours were when they come out in the official server, or if the dark skills will just go back to multipliers) so they currently have a much greater advantage from it than we do currently; Hoping at least reincarnation goes back to being a multiplier since that will push us up a few places (I think with dark impale we get BARELY below xenon using blade dancing) Damage reduction we got is pretty crappy though I agree, better than nothing I suppose.

Not sure if you heard but Gungnir is actually mistranslated, its 443% (+110% total damage, not max hp; quite a weird translation error) so im not too sure how its calculated.

[quote=lazershock]We actually got 70% more damage than we had before the revamp, in addition to even MORE broken life steal and damage reduction; Crossover chains gives 100% of your hp ratio... and seeing as ratios are ALWAYS in the form of either fractions or percents, you get 100% more damage for having full hp. combined with the 50% from reincarnation post revamp thats 150% damage when your hp is full compared to the 80% damage we had before the revamp. In short we just got a buff that is equal to stacking epic adventure 7 times over (which I don't even think is humanly possible) along with ALL the other skill enhancements, and a new 1v1 skill that does 443% (+110% of your max hp) x 4 *might be buffed a bit more too from what i've heard* so yes the revamp is THAT huge =P

OT: i'd be suprised if we didn't come pretty close to heroes after the revamp with our new skills (as far as I know the only reason we're so far behind is just our OBSCENE lack of any form of % damage like heroes have since pre-revamp it was heroes 140% damage (with full ACA and enrage) VS our 80% (berserk) now its heroes 140% vs our 150%. Please do correct me if im wrong on that by the way @ the reason we're behind heroes.[/quote]

ATM Drks do around 5500% DPS, with that 'revamp' is around 8000% DPS (still weaker than hayatos, how sad)

the dmg redctuion is nothing noticeable (in case of 1/1 you will end with 4k hp only... my pally lvl 150 ends with 12k out of 16 if I'm not wrong, my DS ends with 6.5k of 32k)

and heroes have WAY more than 140% dmg counting hypers is around 180% dmg or more... (120% aca, 60% enrage, 25% chance att and 20% boss dmg from aca)

and gungnir is a crap skill, a copy of 'ender' but with elss %dmg and way less hits... doing calculations, impale would still be better if you got a ton of %boss dmg, plus impale has 40% ignore pdr while gungnir have ZERO

[quote=xidamex]you guys are where your ment to be. a support class/tank. they just need to rebuff the def a bit.[/quote]

Paladins are a support class? What's so special about C.O.? o.o

I want hero to be stronger.

it is what i think too, but im kind of happy cause now Adventurers and Cygnus's are very weak compared to the other classes but with revamp they will get a lot stronger

[quote=meowmeow2]whats so good about their revamp?

all they got is adv weapon mastery, and damage got 200% >> 235%... not THAT huge revamp[/quote]

We actually got 70% more damage than we had before the revamp, in addition to even MORE broken life steal and damage reduction; Crossover chains gives 100% of your hp ratio... and seeing as ratios are ALWAYS in the form of either fractions or percents, you get 100% more damage for having full hp. combined with the 50% from reincarnation post revamp thats 150% damage when your hp is full compared to the 80% damage we had before the revamp. In short we just got a buff that is equal to stacking epic adventure 7 times over (which I don't even think is humanly possible) along with ALL the other skill enhancements, and a new 1v1 skill that does 443% (+110% of your max hp) x 4 *might be buffed a bit more too from what i've heard* so yes the revamp is THAT huge =P

OT: i'd be suprised if we didn't come pretty close to heroes after the revamp with our new skills (as far as I know the only reason we're so far behind is just our OBSCENE lack of any form of % damage like heroes have since pre-revamp it was heroes 140% damage (with full ACA and enrage) VS our 80% (berserk) now its heroes 140% vs our 150%. Please do correct me if im wrong on that by the way @ the reason we're behind heroes.

[quote=xidamex]@GoXDS: whats the def? or the fact they are support like in most mmorpgs?[/quote]

not sure what you're asking. I mean, as someone who quoted you, Pallies are unhappy largely in part because their overall defense was nerfed. in this is after RED's description for Paladin was ultimate defense (when there was no defense buff at all)

No cause i do not know if you saw it but dk would be able to spam 443% + 110 of our max hp 4times THIS LOOKS SO OP and we have a skill that make us do DOUBLE damage so i think that why they will the strongest Warrior (between adventurers and cygnus)

[quote=xidamex]you guys are where your ment to be. a support class/tank. they just need to rebuff the def a bit.[/quote]

I'm not upset about the attack, I'm upset because the defense nerf.

[quote=shaco53]I believe he means strongest of the adventurer warriors because obviously they still don't compare with kaiser[/quote]

Even then, heroes are still far superior.

Holy. I love the look of the new skills. o_O It actually looks like a "Dark Knight", but it saddens me that Dragon Knight was thrown away "berserker" still sounds pretty sweet though lol

no no no, they are weakest mikhail is strongest atm

[quote=xidamex]you guys are where your ment to be. a support class/tank. they just need to rebuff the def a bit.[/quote]

big reason why they're not happy in the first place

Heroes are still far stronger, the revamp made us more on par with our explorer counterparts, we're probably average now.