General

I'm fine with any change to any class. Just gotta get use to the change.

@NekoChan: Sigh, just another child crying about how mommy broke his toy is all you are. No, damage isn't the only thing when it comes to balance. You failed to address anything I said. I stated Nexon passing around skills is because the community asked for it. Nexon isn't the most creative at this, but it still gets done. The community asked for balance and that is what Nexon is trying to achieve one way or another. Stop being so arrogant and actually look at other people's posts.

@NekoChan: Jesus you have too much time. Anyways, no, when I said 5th job would correct the issues, I was talking about game play and style fixes. Other things such as health and avoid issues. NOT DAMAGE. Nexon Korea is looking for a thing they call "Perfect Balance", so it would only make sense that they pass around popular skills to other classes to take advantage of. Seems like the right decision since most of the community's complaints consist of how these classes have this skill/effect, why don't we have that too.
I wasn't even talking about you when I said most people complaining don't even play the job they're complaining about. Don't assume. All I stated was that the classes seem to be a bit more balanced now than before. Which is true. You went off about how warriors got a HUGE damage boost and thieves and pirates didn't. I simply stated that this revamp isn't all about damage like you seemed to be so fixated on as the only points you made were that 5th job wouldn't fix anything and warriors got such a huge damage boost compared to thieves and pirates.
I do agree shad's seem to have gotten the worst. But just from looking at what other people have said(or not said), it seems like the revamps went well. You're one of the few who disagree. You seem to be more agitated about your own class, not all classes.
"So just because you're satisfied with your class, don't you f-king speak for other classes that you don't know about."
Same goes for you pal. Just because you're dissatisfied with your class revamps, don't go around saying Nexon did a terrible job for ALL thieves and pirates.
You didn't comprehend what I said much at all. I already stated I haven't seen many complaints from people who actually play the class. At least when compared to past revamps. So I'm NOT speaking for all classes, just passing what has already been said along. You're just a dissatisfied customer screaming and crying about how poorly they did with your one class.

wowo, i didn't see anybody post "nexon hates pirates." kudos to all!

@NekoChan: that's fine and dandy. Which is why I said I disagree IMO.

The Pirate and Thief revamp doesn't even have to be a huge boost in damage all Nexon had to do was like others said get rid of useless skills and update older animations. Dragon Strike could've been revamped to look more up to date but NOO Nexon chooses to keep the same s**t animation. Lets not forget the buff delays for Buccs and the stupid DBZ theme. All Nexon had to do was remove the whole DBZ theme with the transformed spirit and add a martial artist/ Gung Fu theme and add a few chain attacks here and there. Ex: SSK > Energy Buster > Bucc Blast >etc, etc.

@NekoChan im not going to lie, phase dash is one of the worst skills ive ever used, i absolutely hate it.
OT:i think buccs got a decent buff but they still didnt get rid of all the useless skills (whats the point of dragon strike anymore if we can just span bucc blast?)
And Shads got nothing worth while and still kept phase dash >.>
Corsairs....meh it was alright, and we get battleship back so i guess thats alright.
NL:....well its an improvement but i feel that could have done alot better
Basically compared to warriors,mages,and archers, pirates and thiefs got nothing, i feel like it was rushed.

I'm actually disappointed of the Thief/Pirate revamp, because of Nexon stating explorers will get an overhaul and Thief/Pirate revamp looks very half-a$$ed for an overhaul especially Shads.

@NekoChan: While that may be true, the point of the thread if you read the OP, it says it's NOT about the damage. NL's actually got quite a boost of damage as our dps has nearly doubled according to Joe Tangs dps charts. 5th job HAS been confirmed. It was confirmed a while back. I believe the revamps we got here were quite decent, not to mention Nexon could have been planning it to be this way BECAUSE they know a 5th job is right around the corner and they plan on doing the changes needed for the classes with that. It seems like the only people complaining about the pirate and thief revamp are people who don't even have pirates or thieves as their mains. Nexon Korea seemed to be listening quite a bit more with the revamps of RED and that is why I believe they were so much more successful. I haven't seen a lot of complaints about the RED revamps from people who actually play the classes they are complaining about. NL's wanted their stream of stars back and pre-justice like animations. Guess what? We got that! We wanted some of our useless skills to be given a use. Guess what again? We got that too! We also asked for a 4th job mobbing move. Again, we got that! Corsairs got their boat back lol. Buccs got a better energy system it sounds like. Not all the classes were saying, OMG I WANT TO BE OP LIKE KAISER. Most classes would say they DON'T want to be OP. Most classes said they wanted a bit of a damage boost, but not too much, and a fix on their classes. Such as useless skills and play style fixes. A revamp isn't ONLY about damage. The only warriors that got a huge damage boost according to the dps chart, are Hero's and Dark Knights. The rest of the classes are pretty close to each other. I don't know Shad's all that well, but wouldn't most want a rushing type move, unless they have another that works better?

Why are you guys still arguing? its not gonna finish anything

I didn`t look at other classes. Just the warriors CAUSE DAS ALL IM GONNA BE AT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH. <3

[quote=Momijii]And the last Magician, Archer, and Warrior (henceforth collectively known as "MAW" ) revamp was Jump which was even earlier than Justice. What is your point?

And the three or four revamps for MAWs did not fix all the issues either. Because I'm sure any Magician can tell you how there was no high mastery added (Pirates and Thieves both got that), there was no stance added, and there was no status resistance added. No revamp is going to be perfect.

Quality over quantity. MAWs may have had more revamps, but they were never on the same scale as Justice was for Pirates and Thieves. Largely the MAW revamps involved shuffling around a couple of skills and maybe deleting a skill that was plain useless here and there. No MAW revamp fully revamped the play style for the respective classes like Justice did for Pirates and Thieves.

MAWs were never overhauled at all and prior to RED, MAWs had the same skillbooks that they've had since fourth job had been released, more or less.

And see the interesting part is that RED addresses all the serious issues Pirates and Thieves had anyways. Buccs finally get a flash jump for more mobility. Corsairs were "cleaned up," for lack of knowing how to describe it. NLs finally got their fourth job mobbing skill (though NLs will always be sort of shafted given their funding requirements). Shads got even more crit. Prior to RED, Thieves and Pirates were in a much better place compared to MAWs. That is not to say they were better or perfect compared to MAWs, but to say that they were in a better starting position compared to them.[/quote]

In summary, MAW in general had more functional issues and is why some classes in RED got retooled/tweaked while others entire job was overhauled/changed.

Personally, I don't see how any job got shafted, crying because others got more changes is a narrow point of view imo.

I'm a Pirate and I love my revamp.

Oops I ruined all the generalizations.

[quote=bubblecup118]You said "and they had Justice". Justice came in KMS in December 2011. That is over 1.5 years ago. How is that just then?[/quote]
And the last Magician, Archer, and Warrior (henceforth collectively known as "MAW" ) revamp was Jump which was even earlier than Justice. What is your point?

[quote=bubblecup118]Also thieves and pirates only had 1 major revamp back in December 2011 and this revamp [b] did not fixed all the issues[/b].[/quote]
And the three or four revamps for MAWs did not fix all the issues either. Because I'm sure any Magician can tell you how there was no high mastery added (Pirates and Thieves both got that), there was no stance added, and there was no status resistance added. No revamp is going to be perfect.

[quote=bubblecup118]Also warriors, mages and archers had a revamp in Jump but also [b]had 2-3 other revamps[/b]. You are also forgetting the other explorers got revamped 1 month before Justice in KMS and also they[b] also got revamped in mid-late 2012 which is way after Justice.[/b][/quote]
Quality over quantity. MAWs may have had more revamps, but they were never on the same scale as Justice was for Pirates and Thieves. Largely the MAW revamps involved shuffling around a couple of skills and maybe deleting a skill that was plain useless here and there. No MAW revamp fully revamped the play style for the respective classes like Justice did for Pirates and Thieves.

[quote=bubblecup118]So if 1.5 years is relatively not that long ago, then we can say the other 3 explorers had the revamp just yesterday and should not get an overhaul.[/quote]
MAWs were never overhauled at all and prior to RED, MAWs had the same skillbooks that they've had since fourth job had been released, more or less.

And see the interesting part is that RED addresses all the serious issues Pirates and Thieves had anyways. Buccs finally get a flash jump for more mobility. Corsairs were "cleaned up," for lack of knowing how to describe it. NLs finally got their fourth job mobbing skill (though NLs will always be sort of shafted given their funding requirements). Shads got even more crit. Prior to RED, Thieves and Pirates were in a much better place compared to MAWs. That is not to say they were better or perfect compared to MAWs, but to say that they were in a better starting position compared to them.

@janny1993: Because he A: Didn't read everything all the way through and comprehend it.
B: Never truly enjoyed is Palidan
C: Wanted to play a Shad but is too proud to admit to it.

You guys need to relax, maybe this was all part of their plan, you never know they could pull off something REALLY BIG for 5th job everything till now is most likely to take your mind off till 5th job comes.

@NekoChan: you suck at quoting. lol

@NekoChan: It's bcse I've saw right next to my name: Zero isn't the trensandence of time, and I tough he was saying that

[quote=NekoChan]@janny1993: "Or is my English so bad you cannot understand what I'm saying?"
Nah, it's that your English is so bad you cannot understand what you're saying.[/quote]

And you're just being an annoying a$$hole that's pretending to be alpha b!tch so do everybody on here a favor and shut up.

[quote=NekoChan]@janny1993: "Or is my English so bad you cannot understand what I'm saying?"
Nah, it's that your English is so bad you cannot understand what you're saying.[/quote]

ok before we go on, let me ask you a question.

1) You are stupid!
2) Are you stupid?

Can you tell the difference between the 2?

[quote=NekoChan]Okay, sure, but that's not what you asked/said to me. Stop being irrelevant my girl, listen to your master and just sit in the corner and be eye candy.[/quote]

I said to you, "I never said anything about which class is better now did I" and it's true since I never said anything about whether a Paladin or Shadower is a better.

I was asking why Paladin is better than Shadower.

Can you really not understand? Or is my English so bad you cannot understand what I'm saying?

[quote=Momijii]And they had Justice so I think overall they were fine.[/quote]

Anyone that uses that as an excuse either knows nothing or is being ignorant.

You said "and they had Justice". Justice came in KMS in December 2011. That is over 1.5 years ago. How is that just then?

Also thieves and pirates only had 1 major revamp back in December 2011 and this revamp [b] did not fixed all the issues[/b].

Also warriors, mages and archers had a revamp in Jump but also [b]had 2-3 other revamps[/b]. You are also forgetting the other explorers got revamped 1 month before Justice in KMS and also they[b] also got revamped in mid-late 2012 which is way after Justice.[/b]

So if 1.5 years is relatively not that long ago, then we can say the other 3 explorers had the revamp just yesterday and should not get an overhaul.

Thieves and pirates = 1 revamp
Others explorers = 3-4 revamps (some even after Justice)

Get YOUR FACTS RIGHT NEXT TIME BEFORE WRITING GARBAGE

@NekoChan: Don't quote the same message, I can read just fine.

I never [b]said[/b] anything about whether a Paladin or Shadower is a better.

I am however, [b]asking[/b] why Paladin is better than Shadower.

[quote=NekoChan]"Explain to my friend who quit his Paladin and go back to his Shadower after learning the RED update why [b]Paladin is better than Shadower then[/b]."

Technically you did. Your argument is still retarded, even if I stated something irrelevant. [/quote]

I didn't state Paladin is better than Shadower. I am [b]asking[/b] why is a Paladin better than Shadower since they keep saying Paladin got a better revamp and Shadower got the worst, etc, etc.
Learn how to read please?

Many skill animations were updated because they were outdated.

Since many thief and pirate skills were already graphically updated during renegades and mutiny, yeah.

*Waiting on the rest of the KoC Revamp*

Real tired of the assassinate reskins

Take away that Phase Dash for Assaulter again >.<

[quote=rubiksmaster123]are you kidding[/quote]

It's best to just ignore "act-like-a-know-it-all" people like her.
Those kind of people will keep arguing until they "win".

But seriously? 5th job not confirmed? Are you living in a cave? Lol

[quote=NekoChan]Why the hell do people think 5th job will fix it? It's not even confirmed we'll even get a 5th job. Not to mention, what's stopping Nexon from giving us crap again like these stupid Pirate and Thief "revamps"? "but I believe we also got almost exactly what each class wanted. Overall it seems like the classes are a bit more balanced than before." Warriors got a huge damage boost, thieves and pirates barely got one. Also, two words: "Phase Dash", no shadower likes that crap.

@Alienstock: I don't get it, even if @IDKsoMuch quoted you, if you read his post it had nothing relating to disagreeing with your statement, so going to the lengths of saying " Dang Idiot are you idiot" makes you quite the " Dang Idiot are you idiot".

@janny1993: "Explain to my friend who quit his Paladin and go back to his Shadower after learning the RED update why Paladin is better than Shadower then."
Great argument there, if we were in retard land. Just because your friend is quitting one class for another, doesn't make that class better. This isn't the release of a new OP class.[/quote]

are you kidding

@NekoChan: I never said anything about which class is better now did I?
Don't put words into my mouth.

@RockGod1: Everyone have different opinion and he said he don't like the new Paladin update in RED and the update for Shadower looks kinda good.
Not everyone here play for damage you know?

You know, the revamps were not made to make the Adventurers bright, new and shiny... the revamps were to re-balance them and give them generally diversive playstyles. Not every class needed brand new attacks at every job level with flashy new animations. They just needed to be re-balanced and have their identities established.

And look! That's EXACTLY what they did!

Also, if we're really comparing who got a "better" revamp, I thought the mage revamps (sans Cleric) weren't all that amazing either. I honestly thought that Brawlers (who most people complain got the shortest stick) had a very good revamp on the flipside. In fact, let's take a look at the Brawler revamps... they didn't get any new skills other than their pirate-y version of Flash Jump. Instead, their Energy Charge became their "Unique Skill" from 2nd job onwards. All of their attacks now have an uncharged and a charged version depending if Energy Charge is active (kind of like having EX skills in Street Fighter).

What does this mean?

Technicly speaking, they gained a bunch of new attacks. Before, Brawlers had Corkscrew Punch and Tornado Uppercut in 2nd job, Energy Blast, Spiral Assault and Shockwave in 3rd and Buccaneer Blast, Octopunch, Dragon Strike and Nautilus Strike in 4th. Now, thanks to the Energy Charge being a Unique Skill, they now technicly get almost double the attacks with no change to their keyboard layout. Energy Blast and Buccaneer Blast can now be used WITHOUT Energy Charge and have beefed-up versions when the charge is on. Now, there is no last-second whiffing on an attack, because Energy Charge ran out just before you hit the button and each attack skill has two versions.

Honestly, that's a lot for a class people claim to have had nothing added to them.

Eh I'm satisfied, although I would've like more improvements on the Sair revamp

No, Nexon! I need Assaulter for Krexel! D:

ya, poor shads.

@Ecyz: @SnowMan101: @FiendOverlord: @YamenNayo: Explain to my friend who quit his Paladin and go back to his Shadower after learning the RED update why Paladin is better than Shadower then.

@candente: You mean Dark Knight? Or Dual Blade?
Dual Blade haven't got any revamp as far as I know and this Dark Knight is my sister's character. I can't update my main now because of the ranking </3

Should be disappointed in the team who thought of the revamp for them instead.

@IDKsoMuch: ohh f3

The updated energy system is pretty great for buccs. I hate not knowing how much energy I have left. Plus, we can spam bucc blast with 20%+ more damage and 30% more crit damage.

[quote=Alienstock]@IDKsoMuch: Dang Idiot are you idiot .... Yes Zero is the Trancendant of Time![/quote]

You're comment wasn't supposed to be quoted. I meant to quote the other person only.

@IDKsoMuch: Dang Idiot are you idiot .... Yes Zero is the Trancendant of Time!

I honestly think Nexon Korea did pretty well with the revamps of RED. It seems like everyone is quite satisfied and happy with the changes they received for their classes. I agree that warriors and mages seem to have more changes than that of the pirates and thieves, but I believe we also got almost exactly what each class wanted. Overall it seems like the classes are a bit more balanced than before. For the classes that didn't get EVERYTHING that they wanted, I'm sure 5th job will address those issues.

[quote=Momijii]Jump and Justice are not nearly the same. Justice more or less remade Thieves and Pirates entirely whereas Jump added one or two skills and shuffled a couple of things around.

@Alienstock: Zero isn't the Transcendent of Time, Rhinne is.[/quote]

Justice was the Jump patch for thieves and Pirates, Nexon (for whatever reason) delayed Jump for Thieves and Pirates. It wasn't a revamp that Nexon gave to Thievs and Pirates just because they love them so much, it was supposed to be a part of Jump.

I don't even play thieves or pirates but I can definitely say their revamps were less thorough than the other three

[quote=MostUnique]Yeah I'm Disappointed. Still no skills to hit more than one enemy other than shadow thingy which does HORRIBLE damage.[/quote]

You really were not paying attention at all, were you?

Night lord revamp = welcome back dexless sins .

Sairs also got a hefty overhaul as well and now have a ship attack with a nice animation <3

@MagicFrappe: in a max blog

@NekoChan if only the world actually worked like that outside of your dainty little screen

[quote=NekoChan]I don't feel like arguing this, so I'll just say "No, you're wrong, stop talking".[/quote]
No, you're wrong. Stop talking.

[quote=NekoChan]And the other adventurers had Jump, so it's equal. Well except Renegades kinda BSed Shads by taking away Assaulter and BoT, took away Trans and ship for pirates too.[/quote]
Jump and Justice are not nearly the same. Justice more or less remade Thieves and Pirates entirely whereas Jump added one or two skills and shuffled a couple of things around.

@Alienstock: Zero isn't the Transcendent of Time, Rhinne is.

NL one is sick