General

I'd say it looks like "poor design."
You can't call it a glitch or a design error :x

I'm kind of on the fence here.
On one side, Nexon was the one who messed up. If they didn't screw up the event quest,nobody would have abused and it would all be okay.
On the other side,the players,even if they don't admit,did know that that was a exploit. I don't exactly mean that to all players,but at least some players DID know that it was abusing.

[quote=fubs0]sure let's make a map where you will get hit and a corner where you can repeatedly use the same attack except you don't get any exp and vs that to aliens and see which one players prefer. Everything you said eventually falls back to easy exp and that is what alien provide and yet your saying it doesn't give competitive advantages?
here is a benefit vs draw back chart so you can understand
Drawback benefit
kill lvl 95 aliens get 3x + exp
kill lvl 95 mobs get normal exp[/quote]
They have the same drawbacks that any other map has, although the amount of each may be different. If you die, you lose full EXP. You don't take 1 damage for each hit, you take normal damage when hit. You still need to use potions to train there efficiently, which may be a greater, lesser, or equal potion usage as other maps. You've just listed benefits and have failed to list the drawbacks. It's apparent that you don't know what a drawback is, and are unable to recognize what they actually are because of this.

[quote=fubs0]No comment, awaiting for Hime's clarification.[/quote]
Of course there wouldn't be a comment. We've just proved the correlation between the two, which would render your previous argument invalid.

[quote=fubs0]Now you are using ignorance, GOOD JOB. In order to prove ignorance you need to prove that it should be obvious to a reasonable man that remaking chars to do sporty party falls outside of spirirt of the rules. Well I don't know how you or Nexon define a reasonable man, but one thing is for sure is that the fact it has to make up the majority.
So
[url=http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F568480-regarding-nexon-hellbanning-players-that-repeatedly-gained-60-coins-from-quest%2Fpage2%26highlight%3Dcoin%26nxid%3D6][/url]

Count how many knows that this act is out of the spirit of the game vs other people which include those who thinks this is exploiting bugs/error in design.
No matter what you use as standards to make up "reasonable person" people who know the act is out of the "spirirt" is always in the minority.
So that disproves ignorance. Not that you proved it to begin with, you simply made accusation without evidence to support it.[/quote]
I don't have to prove player ignorance via the way you're requesting, since it doesn't matter if a player is "a reasonable man" or not. Again, it's outside the spirit of the game. Do you know what that means? No? It means that it is outside of the ways Nexon intended the game to be played, hence why players were hellbanned/perma-banned for abusing this issue. Also, I have no clue why you're linking to that thread, but I assume it's for self-promotion.

Again, this all falls back on player ignorance. Players took advantage of this issue (abused it, gained a competitive advantage, whatever you want to use) and gained a competitive advantage from it. It's not how Nexon intended MapleStory or this event to be used or played (outside what Nexon deems in spirit of the game, or how the game is intended to be played). Because of this, those players were punished. You may not have been punished, but remember that because something applies to one (or multiple) people/things does not mean that it will apply to all.

[quote=fubs0]Nexon does give free clean slate if you know how to farm it efficiently aka jett farm. And it certainly sound very normal to a lot because it was continued without any fixing done to it. Your fantasy about players should know that its going to be fixed within 24hour when its released is very cute. But you have not explained to me how am I suppose to know that before they removed it.
Due to not knowing aran farm and jett farm, I am sure you spent your 6 years very closed off henehoeing (no offense to henehoes). So that you have not seen these obvious way to get some free stuff that nexon intentionally gave out.[/quote]
No, they don't. They don't provide a quest that requires you to just click on them, get to the end of the NPC dialogue, and then are awarded a Clean Slate Scroll. Therefore, farming it does not mean you're being given "free" Clean Slate Scrolls by Nexon. You're gaining a competitive advantage via an "unintended issue," just like the one you're trying to defend (this coin farming issue). Also, you can't speak on the behalf of a lot of people about what sounds normal in MapleStory since most of the players that have posted in this thread (and in threads that you have linked to) have spoken [b]against[/b] you, and recognize that the players who were punished should have expected to be punished in some way.

Also, you saying that I did not know about Aran and Jett farming is wrong. I'll quote myself from [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2525945/3/#42113191]here[/url] where I clearly said that "I'd also like to be more informed about the Jett and Aran farms." I already was aware about the Aran scroll farming incident (I asked for clarification to make sure we were talking about the same issue). I didn't know much about the Jett farming. I find it funny that you assumed that I've spent 6 years Henehoing, despite coming off of a 8 month break that began last Thanksgiving and reaching level 200, not to mention PQing with players, working on my crafting skills (funny, since there's a picture on my BasilID about it), collecting medals (up to 70 so far), trying to recomplete all of my quests (since I had almost every single one done before Big Bang), working on my Crusader Codex (only 6 more cards to go), along with other various activities that I'm not going to elaborate on. Unfortunately, I should assume that you're the Henehoe here since you're spending so much time trying to defend players who are quite obviously in the wrong, not just here on Basil, but on Nexon's forums as well. And, I'm sure you still question why your previous threads in both forum boards were deleted, while many "reasonable men" have already be able to see why.

[quote=fubs0]The initial statement was that Nexon is free to use this line if they want. However I want clarification if they are using this line and I want further details about what is outside the spirit.[/quote]
Actually, your initial statement can be found [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2525945/4/#42118013]here[/url], which was that "very little does legal documents provide vague words which is solely up to one side to determine its meaning."

Go ahead and ask Nexon for each and every specific example of what is "outside the spirit of the game." Better yet, I encourage you to ask every player here on BasilMarket and on Nexon's forums, and provide each and every example of what's outside the spirit of the game. Go ahead, we'll wait.

Do you know what the difference between providing the examples that those forum users give you and the examples you're asking from Nexon is? [b]Nexon and yourself would not be able to provide every example of what's outside the spirit of the game.[/b] If Nexon gave you every single possible example, I'd guarantee they'd still be missing some examples. Then, the next time an issue arose that wasn't provided in those examples, you'll come back to BasilMarket and Nexon's forums to flood the boards with more "It's Nexon's fault and not the player's fault" threads, as other users have said you did with this issue.

I'm pretty sure you'll respond to me with, "Nexon has to remove that from the ToS then," where I will respond with a link to [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2525945/4/#42121803]my post[/url] once again where I will have to draw your attention to where I mention how Nexon has provided "bulleted examples which are [b]examples to give you an idea of what actions may result in your account being punished.[/b]"

Now, will you accept these [b]facts[/b] already, or are you going to continue to try and argue them by using your own personal views, also known as [b]opinions[/b]?

@fubs0:
You really are wasting time. It's like you ran away from the proof i gave you. Are you telling me GMs don't know how to type statements either? Does that need evidence too?
Everything with you is evidence, even when you don't have any yourself. I should spew proof to everything you'd say and you will falter like a dying horse with nothing else to say.
No one is going to answer your call. No one is going to give you answers for something so obvious.

[quote=Andwoos]It doesn't give a competitive advantage. It's not a map where you attack monsters and never get hit, or where you can just stand in one corner and repeatedly use the same attack over and over to get easy EXP. You don't seem to recognize the difference between something that has a large benefit with no drawbacks, compared to something that has a large benefit and a drawback that matches (or is close enough to match).[/quote]
sure let's make a map where you will get hit and a corner where you can repeatedly use the same attack except you don't get any exp and vs that to aliens and see which one players prefer. Everything you said eventually falls back to easy exp and that is what alien provide and yet your saying it doesn't give competitive advantages?
here is a benefit vs draw back chart so you can understand
Drawback benefit
kill lvl 95 aliens get 3x + exp
kill lvl 95 mobs get normal exp

[quote=Andwoos]
..."Knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue" [b]is[/b] gaining a competitive advantage. The latter is a result of the first action occurring. There isn't anything else that can be said since you have to be able to see and accept the correlation between those two first.[/quote]
No comment, awaiting for hime's clarification.

[quote=Andwoos]
1) It doesn't matter. Player ignorance can't be used as a reason to avoid punishment in regards to a contract that you've agreed to out of your own free will, which is the excuse you just fell back on. You're missing the point that they are [b]examples[/b] of reasons that they may punish you. They are [b]not the only reasons[/b] that Nexon may penalize your account, which is what the first paragraph in 2.2 Code of Conduct states: If they feel that what you're doing is unfair or wrong in their eyes (outside of the spirit of the game), they can punish you for it. You haven't seemed to grasp that yet, and won't accept this fact unless you see it in the [b]bulleted examples[/b] which, by the way, they don't have to provide, but do provide as a courtesy to their players to give them an idea what unacceptable behavior is.[/quote]

Now you are using ignorance, GOOD JOB. In order to prove ignorance you need to prove that it should be obvious to a reasonable man that remaking chars to do sporty party falls outside of spirirt of the rules. Well I don't know how you or Nexon define a reasonable man, but one thing is for sure is that the fact it has to make up the majority.
So
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F568480-regarding-nexon-hellbanning-players-that-repeatedly-gained-60-coins-from-quest%2Fpage2%26highlight%3Dcoin%26nxid%3D6

Count how many knows that this act is out of the spirit of the game vs other people which include those who thinks this is exploiting bugs/error in design.
No matter what you use as standards to make up "reasonable person" people who know the act is out of the "spirirt" is always in the minority.
So that disproves ignorance. Not that you proved it to begin with, you simply made accusation without evidence to support it.
2) Remember, this game is for players 13 and older. They should have some sort of ability to determine when something is outrageously unfair since it has (essentially) no drawbacks and something that is good, but has some drawbacks. "If it's too good to be true, then it probably is" helps you determine what is outrageously unfair. If you aren't able to determine the difference between the two, then you should start considering asking other players that can. After all, ignorance isn't an excuse that makes a player exempt from the ToS, especially when you click the "I agree" button, stating you understand and recognize the Terms of Service and the powers they give Nexon and it's players.

[quote=Andwoos]
3) Nexon has deliberately given away Clean Slate Scrolls to their players? I'd love to hear which events or quests that had this happen. Doesn't sound normal to me (or anyone else, I can safely assume). Yes, you've had to [b]earn[/b] the right to purchase them from event shops via quests that take time to complete (on average, a few days). And, last time I checked, [i]this unintended issue was fixed within the first 24 hours of it's release[/i] via an emergency server maintenance. Yes, bugs, glitches, and unintended issues are normal for a MMO game. But, major issues, such as this one, are usually fixed immediately. And, players that abuse these issues get punished. Nexon fixing major issues, such as this one, within the first 24 hours is normal. But, that's only 6 years of Mapling experience talking, compared to your... I'd assume, fewer years than me of experience.[/quote]
Nexon does give free clean slate if you know how to farm it efficiently aka jett farm. And it certainly sound very normal to a lot because it was continued without any fixing done to it. Your fantasy about players should know that its going to be fixed within 24hour when its released is very cute. But you have not explained to me how am I suppose to know that before they removed it.
Due to not knowing aran farm and jett farm, I am sure you spent your 6 years very closed off henehoeing (no offense to henehoes). So that you have not seen these obvious way to get some free stuff that nexon intentionally gave out.

[quote=Andwoos]
Well, the point is that it's legally binding, which rules your initial statement of the ToS "not being a legal document that has laws supporting it" invalid. If it wasn't legally binding, there wouldn't be that court case (along with default judgements already put into effect against some of those defendants already).[/quote]
The initial statement was that Nexon is free to use this line if they want. However I want clarification if they are using this line and I want further details about what is outside the spirit.

[quote=fubs0]As for the alien map, I don't completely agree with you that it doesn't give you competitive advantage simply because it makes leveling so much faster, however I agree with the because its been out for a long time and no real action or comment was done we can view it not as an exploit/glitch/error in design. I am currently applying the same logic on remaking characters to gain rewards. Because it has been done since aran and jett, without any action or EVEN COMMENT by nexon, everyone assumed it was ok and apply it to every quest possible unless otherwise stated by nexon.[/quote]

It doesn't give a competitive advantage. It's not a map where you attack monsters and never get hit, or where you can just stand in one corner and repeatedly use the same attack over and over to get easy EXP. You don't seem to recognize the difference between something that has a large benefit with no drawbacks, compared to something that has a large benefit and a drawback that matches (or is close enough to match).

[quote=fubs0]about hime's quote
It wasn't only that part, the part near the end which stated they understand those that came across the issue unknowingly and are not banned which includes me.
Combined with the part you pointed out, I don't believe I misread Hime's quote. "Knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue" is a far stretch from events that give you competitive advantage because the part about "unintended issue" is nowhere to be found within your meaning. [/quote]

..."Knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue" [b]is[/b] gaining a competitive advantage. The latter is a result of the first action occurring. There isn't anything else that can be said since you have to be able to see and accept the correlation between those two first.

[quote=fubs0]1) actually this would fall under the "I don't see it in the bulleted examples provided in 2.2 Code of Conduct and the fact nexon is aware of the action without taking real action or commenting on it, so there is no possible way I would know that it's considered as outside the spirit of the game , so I can't be punished for it" logic. which is reasonably correct.

2) "if it's too good to be true" can be applied to many cases in maple story based on your perspective "then it probably is" however only applies to very few cases out of the too good to be true section. If something gives you advantage and Nexon has done similar things before, then I would do it if I happen to feel like doing it and I haven't came across any problem until now. (2006 to 2007) then (2012 may to now)

3)There has to be some sort of thought process in one's head that would say something similar to "Hey, this is a quick and easy way to get Clean Slate Scrolls without any drawbacks and Nexon has done similar things before without action or even comment on it so it must be legit". Most players who has done other "accepted" farming would know that this particular issue looks very normal to them and suddenly Nexon throws a surprise saying that this an unintended issue.[/quote]

1) It doesn't matter. Player ignorance can't be used as a reason to avoid punishment in regards to a contract that you've agreed to out of your own free will, which is the excuse you just fell back on. You're missing the point that they are [b]examples[/b] of reasons that they may punish you. They are [b]not the only reasons[/b] that Nexon may penalize your account, which is what the first paragraph in 2.2 Code of Conduct states: If they feel that what you're doing is unfair or wrong in their eyes (outside of the spirit of the game), they can punish you for it. You haven't seemed to grasp that yet, and won't accept this fact unless you see it in the [b]bulleted examples[/b] which, by the way, they don't have to provide, but do provide as a courtesy to their players to give them an idea what unacceptable behavior is.

2) Remember, this game is for players 13 and older. They should have some sort of ability to determine when something is outrageously unfair since it has (essentially) no drawbacks and something that is good, but has some drawbacks. "If it's too good to be true, then it probably is" helps you determine what is outrageously unfair. If you aren't able to determine the difference between the two, then you should start considering asking other players that can. After all, ignorance isn't an excuse that makes a player exempt from the ToS, especially when you click the "I agree" button, stating you understand and recognize the Terms of Service and the powers they give Nexon and it's players.

3) Nexon has deliberately given away Clean Slate Scrolls to their players? I'd love to hear which events or quests that had this happen. Doesn't sound normal to me (or anyone else, I can safely assume). Yes, you've had to [b]earn[/b] the right to purchase them from event shops via quests that take time to complete (on average, a few days). And, last time I checked, [i]this unintended issue was fixed within the first 24 hours of it's release[/i] via an emergency server maintenance. Yes, bugs, glitches, and unintended issues are normal for a MMO game. But, major issues, such as this one, are usually fixed immediately. And, players that abuse these issues get punished. Nexon fixing major issues, such as this one, within the first 24 hours is normal. But, that's only 6 years of Mapling experience talking, compared to your... I'd assume, fewer years than me of experience.

[quote=fubs0]And I am sure the person in the lawsuit is aware of this, there is nothing we can really say until the law decides it.[/quote]

Well, the point is that it's legally binding, which rules your initial statement of the ToS "not being a legal document that has laws supporting it" invalid. If it wasn't legally binding, there wouldn't be that court case (along with default judgements already put into effect against some of those defendants already).

[quote=fubs0]your not reading my questions and your not providing proof to back up your statements.
why are you even commenting if you can't even spend time reading.

there is no point even trying to answer your pathetic comment.[/quote]
No more games.
[quote=Waltzing]This quest actually isn't supposed to be available, so its completion has been blocked.[/quote]
Why not read a little more?
The quest actually ISN'T supposed to be available.
He is saying that it was past tense.
So it's completion has BEEN blocked.
This means that it was blocked as of the 1st maintenance. This means that what wasn't supposed to be there before the 1st maintenance is now blocked.
It doesn't make sense if "It wasn't supposed to be available after the 1st maintenance, so it has been blocked after the 1st maintenance."
He wasn't speaking toward someone. He was asking for help. People were asking for why it didn't work. And he answered why. Problem with your argument is that it assumes that he is speaking in present tense. It was not removed after the 1st maintenance as you said. He spoke before it was fully removed. It was fully removed after a second maintenance. He said it has BEEN blocked. Meaning it already happened; it was past tense. This is where you fail.
You did not properly read his response. He did not say this was after any maintenance. He said it had been blocked as of the 1st maintenance. It was a glitch. You have failed.

[quote=fubs0]your not reading my questions and your not providing proof to back up your statements.
why are you even commenting if you can't even spend time reading.

there is no point even trying to answer your pathetic comment.[/quote]

Your questions have been read and properly mocked by many- the first 7,8 9 times you spammed them. Why would you expect that simply rambling about the same thing over and over will get anyone to change their answers?

Sorry if reality doesn't fit the answer you'd like to hear. But the reality is that you broke the rules set forth and judged by Nexon, they punished you in a very minor way. Avoid that fate next time by not taking advantage of something that's too good to be true.

[quote=myrdrex]What is there to clarify?

When Nexon messes up don't take advantage of it. If you do decide to take advantage of it they may do something to rectify the situation. It seems perfectly clear. Sure it requires that someone makes a very basic judgement call, but anyone using some common sense can probably figure that one out.

And I certainly hope you're right- people who cheat and can't understand the basic concepts behind the TOS leaving sounds delightful.[/quote]

your not reading my questions and your not providing proof to back up your statements.
why are you even commenting if you can't even spend time reading.

there is no point even trying to answer your pathetic comment.

No. This is just stupid and ridiculous.

[quote=fubs0]
If you think my thread was about trying to make nexon take back their action, then you are dead wrong.
My thread is about demanding Nexon to make CLARIFICATIONS on the oddity involved with their actions concerning this quest.
It honestly doesn't matter how much people disagrees with my opinion because statistically speaking majority of the people
who see wrong in Nexon's action already left the game because they are too pissed off at Nexon's previous actions. All that is left of the game is made
up of large portion of Nexon worshipers and some others who have no idea what was going on.[/quote]

What is there to clarify?

When Nexon messes up don't take advantage of it. If you do decide to take advantage of it they may do something to rectify the situation. It seems perfectly clear. Sure it requires that someone makes a very basic judgement call, but anyone using some common sense can probably figure that one out.

And I certainly hope you're right- people who cheat and can't understand the basic concepts behind the TOS leaving sounds delightful.

[quote=fubs0]The second part of the quote wasn't addressed to you......
ask waltzing what his answer is and give me a clear response, because he could mean 2 things.
I don't care how you view GM are suppose to talk, I already did my part in asking the questions towards mods/ GMs

You should do your part in clarifying with waltzing if you view that as an evidence. If you don't care then that is another story.[/quote]

Look [i]harder[/i].
If you can't see it, it's your loss. I don't need to prove something to you that can be seen by just reading.
It doesn't matter to me either way since the end result of this is not going to be in your favor. You aren't going to get your "voice" and you aren't going to get your "answers". This has been shown this to you by every single thread that you've had locked.
Removed the second quote.
Edit: don't treat this like a courtroom. There's no judge here to jail you right now for trying to start a riot.

[quote=Bomber321].
No. You look too deep into it. It was a flat statement that it was not an intended feature. If you understood how the GMs speak, you would know. But you don't look hard enough, do you? there was no contextual evidence stating otherwise. You are creating things out of thin air.
He is giving an answer because people don't understand why it is blocked, so he is stating that it was not supposed to be an intended feature since the patch, and was blocked, and that is why no one can complete it since the maintenance was completed. You fail to understand his wording. Try a different excuse, because you don't know what you're talking about

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying you won't stop making threads about something that is not going to be fixed, ever, because it was an unintended feature you refuse to acknowledge. You are one of the only ones pitting yourself at nexon. Are you saying everyone is wrong besides you? The truth is basically everyone is right besides you, and you refuse to admit it.[/quote]

The second part of the quote wasn't addressed to you......
ask waltzing what his answer is and give me a clear response, because he could mean 2 things.
I don't care how you view GM are suppose to talk, I already did my part in asking the questions towards mods/ GMs

You should do your part in clarifying with waltzing if you view that as an evidence. If you don't care about the clarifying evidence you provided then I shouldn't being caring about accepting the evidence you provided.

[quote=fubs0]what waltzing said is to give response to people who are asking why is the completion of the quest blocked
his response can mean TWO things
1. The quest isn't suppose to be available, since the maintenance
[b]2. The quest isn't suppose to be available, since the beginning of the patch[/b]
Since he is trying to give response to people who are asking why is the completion of the quest blocked it is more likely to be 1

I am sure you just fail at applying answers to the context[/quote].
No. You look too deep into it. It was a flat statement that it was not an intended feature. If you understood how the GMs speak, you would know. But you don't look hard enough, do you? there was no contextual evidence stating otherwise. You are creating things out of thin air. Read the sentence again.
Maybe i should give you the answer.
He is giving an answer because people don't understand why it is blocked, so he is stating that it was not supposed to be an intended feature since the patch, and was blocked, and that is why no one can complete it since the maintenance was completed. You fail to understand his wording. Try a different excuse, because you don't know what you're talking about

[quote=Bomber321]First you make a SP account and ask for help. You get none.
Then on the maplestory forums you spam. Nothing.
Now this? You really are not even making valid arguments, to boot. Only rationalizing your actions.
[url=http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F564738-homecoming-sporty-party-time-quest%2Fpage5%26nxid%3D6]Well too bad. It is a glitch.[/url]
Funny part was it was in a sticky thread. You really weren't looking hard enough.[/quote]
what waltzing said is to give response to people who are asking why is the completion of the quest blocked
his response can mean TWO things
1. The quest isn't suppose to be available, since the maintenance
2. The quest isn't suppose to be available, since the beginning of the patch
Since he is trying to give response to people who are asking why is the completion of the quest blocked it is more likely to be 1

I am sure you just fail at applying answers to the context

[quote=myrdrex]I would think you'd have moved on by now. After being mocked off the Nexon boards and had 10 different threads shut down there with tons of players making fun of your whining you'd expect someone to learn to grow up and accept their punishment.

Don't cheat and Nexon won't have to ban you next time. Learn to play by the rules and you won't have this issue.[/quote]

If you think my thread was about trying to make nexon take back their action, then you are dead wrong.
My thread is about demanding Nexon to make CLARIFICATIONS on the oddity involved with their actions concerning this quest.
It honestly doesn't matter how much people disagrees with my opinion because statistically speaking majority of the people
who see wrong in Nexon's action already left the game because they are too pissed off at Nexon's previous actions. All that is left of the game is made
up of large portion of Nexon worshipers and some others who have no idea what was going on.

First you make a SP account and ask for help. You get none.
Then on the maplestory forums you spam. Nothing.
Now this? You really are not even making valid arguments, to boot. Only rationalizing your actions.
[url=http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F564738-homecoming-sporty-party-time-quest%2Fpage5%26nxid%3D6]Well too bad. It is a glitch.[/url]
Funny part was it was in a sticky thread. You really weren't looking hard enough.

I would think you'd have moved on by now. After being mocked off the Nexon boards and had 10 different threads shut down there with tons of players making fun of your whining you'd expect someone to learn to grow up and accept their punishment.

Don't cheat and Nexon won't have to ban you next time. Learn to play by the rules and you won't have this issue.

Haha you guys are still hellbanned?

[quote=Andwoos]
[*]It came out when NLC was revamped, it's been out for months now, hasn't been adjusted or removed. The only issues that occurred was with players not being able to access these maps, which was acknowledged and fixed. Along with that, it wouldn't be considered too good to be true since it doesn't exactly feature a massive advantage with little or no negative repercussions, unlike (again) this coin event issue, which was removed.

You misread Hime. "Knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue" means that they know they're gaining a competitive advantage. That quote never said that those players [b]know[/b] it's an unintended issue, but merely that they're gaining an unfair advantage over other players by abusing that issue. They don't have to prove that the players knew it was an unintended issue though. They only had to come up with a criteria that would allow them to locate and punish the players that they felt were intentionally abusing this issue, regardless of if they knew it was an unintentional issue or not.[/quote]

As for the alien map, I don't completely agree with you that it doesn't give you competitive advantage simply because it makes leveling so much faster, however I agree with the because its been out for a long time and no real action or comment was done we can view it not as an exploit/glitch/error in design. I am currently applying the same logic on remaking characters to gain rewards. Because it has been done since aran and jett, without any action or EVEN COMMENT by nexon, everyone assumed it was ok and apply it to every quest possible unless otherwise stated by nexon.

about hime's quote
It wasn't only that part, the part near the end which stated they understand those that came across the issue unknowingly and are not banned which includes me.
Combined with the part you pointed out, I don't believe I misread Hime's quote. "Knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue" is a far stretch from events that give you competitive advantage because the part about "unintended issue" is nowhere to be found within your meaning.

[quote=Andwoos]
[url=http://www.nexon.net/legal/terms-of-use/]Terms of Service (ToS)[/url]
1) This reason would basically fall back on the "I don't see it in the bulleted examples provided in 2.2 Code of Conduct, so I can't be punished for it" logic, which is wrong. Those bulleted examples are [b]examples[/b] to give you an idea of what actions may result in your account being punished. That's why the ToS mentions in the beginning of 2.2 Code of Conduct that Nexon may determine what actions are outside the spirit of the game and may take any actions that they deem necessary. They may not have violated a specifically printed rule in the ToS, but Nexon is accurately using the ToS against the players that abused this issue.

2) They removed the event that was the center of this issue within 24 hours after it was released via unscheduled server maintenance, if I remember correctly. Again, the "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is" statement would provide effective here. Starting in late 2006 (a good 6 years ago), I haven't been the victim of any suspensions or bans, especially since if I hear that there's some sort of advantage with little to no drawbacks, I question it or avoid it altogether. Better to be safe than sorry.

3) Occasionally, an unintended issue occurs when updating MapleStory to another version, or during a maintenance also. There has to be some sort of thought process in one's head that would say something similar to "Hey, this is a quick and easy way to get Clean Slate Scrolls without any drawbacks. Maybe this is a glitch or something else is wrong here." All Nexon games are for players 13 years and older (roughly an 8th grader or a Freshman in high school). Most players of that age would think that something was amiss when an issue like this arises. If they can't see that oddity and continue to gain such an large competitive advantage, then their punishment may come as a surprise, but they're still at fault.

You might want to tell that to [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=55652]the admins of a familiar hacking site[/url], who are currently in a legal dispute with Nexon, specifically for distributing [url=http://www.southperry.net/Legal/Nexon%20America%20Inc.%20v.%20Ryan%20Michael%20Cornwall/14.%20Amended%20Complaint.pdf]hacks[/url] specifically designed for use on MapleStory. The ToS is written in accordance with the laws of the State of California, and Nexon may take legal action against you for violating the ToS (stated in Section 16 Miscellaneous of the Nexon Terms of Service).[/quote]

1) actually this would fall under the "I don't see it in the bulleted examples provided in 2.2 Code of Conduct and the fact nexon is aware of the action without taking real action or commenting on it, so there is no possible way I would know that it's considered as outside the spirit of the game , so I can't be punished for it" logic. which is reasonably correct.

2) "if it's too good to be true" can be applied to many cases in maple story based on your perspective "then it probably is" however only applies to very few cases out of the too good to be true section. If something gives you advantage and Nexon has done similar things before, then I would do it if I happen to feel like doing it and I haven't came across any problem until now. (2006 to 2007) then (2012 may to now)

3)There has to be some sort of thought process in one's head that would say something similar to "Hey, this is a quick and easy way to get Clean Slate Scrolls without any drawbacks and Nexon has done similar things before without action or even comment on it so it must be legit". Most players who has done other "accepted" farming would know that this particular issue looks very normal to them and suddenly Nexon throws a surprise saying that this an unintended issue.

And I am sure the person in the lawsuit is aware of this, there is nothing we can really say until the law decides it.

@yoyoyo25971
I read your post about an atm that gives extra 20$ and I am sure your the one that didn't read my post.
Because I gave you a statement that its TOO OBVIOUS to know that there is something wrong with the system itself.

If jett farm give you clean slate per average lvl 13 jett and its not an issue
and a quest that give you clean slate per level 10 chars and 25 useless coins what makes you think this is an issue?

[quote=fubs0]@yoyoyo25971:
except this case this event NOBODY KNEW WAS MESSED UP because 60 coin simply net you a clean slate which you done it before with jett
in your case everybody know its messed up

by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F582526-60-coin-quest-questions-when-hime-closed-the-thread-5-%28revised%29%26p%3D4839772%23post4839772[/quote]

You did not read my post did you? It is the exact situtation except in Real Life. Your not fooling anybody by going "oh, i didnt know i could scroll godly gear so easily like dat lol."

[quote=fubs0][*][b]Jett farming:[/b] Create a Jett, which starts off with 8 Renegades Coins and 8 from each Artifact during the Artifact hunt. On average, it took about 13 levels on that Jett to purchase a Clean Slate Scroll.
[*][b]Alien map:[/b] Aliens give off 3k EXP. Being a level 95 monster with normal HP, aliens give more exp than monsters up to level 120. Certainly too good to be true.
[*][b]Ginger Ales:[/b] Potions that heal 75% HP and MP. With a price of 3,800 mesos, they are insanely cheap compared to Ginseng Roots and other pots, which are around the same price.
[*][b]Daily Gift:[/b] Free stuff for logging in, given enough characters/accounts can easily farm some Lucky Day Scrolls or attack scrolls, or for the purpose of remaking characters to farm Lucky Day Scrolls.
[*][b]Aran farming:[/b] Make multiple level 10 Arans to farm tradable 2-handed 50% scrolls.
Now you have a chance to make a level 10 character to get a Clean Slate Scroll. I would say that looks pretty normal to me.[/quote]
[*](It was clarification that I asked for, and since that was what you provided, I have no response towards Jett farming)
[*]It came out when NLC was revamped, it's been out for months now, hasn't been adjusted or removed. The only issues that occurred was with players not being able to access these maps, which was acknowledged and fixed. Along with that, it wouldn't be considered too good to be true since it doesn't exactly feature a massive advantage with little or no negative repercussions, unlike (again) this coin event issue, which was removed.
[*]That wouldn't be too good to be true. They have a varying selection of potions, and depending on the character that you play, Ginger Ales aren't as great as you perceive them to be. I would know since I use Honsters and Sorcerer Elixirs instead of Ginger Ales since Ginger Ales ate through my mesos more than Honsters and Sorcerer Elixirs combined.
[*]The Daily Gift event isn't too good to be true either. Yes, you can get Lucky Day Scrolls, but it's not at a high rate. I've gotten one since the event began, and I log in almost every day (maybe one or two days I haven't). Definitely not worth making multiple characters to try and farm them. But, if you know someone that [i]successfully[/i] farmed them, I'd love to have them provide their opinion on the matter.
[*](It was clarification that I asked for, and since that was what you provided, I have no response towards Aran farming either)

[quote=fubs0]This is Hime's quote:
[quote=Hime]Remember, knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue from the game can result in actions taken against your account. We understand there are some players who unintentionally came across the issue, it becomes apparent when it becomes intentional when the issue was abused multiple times.[/quote]
So, I am one of those people who farmed around 20 Clean Slate Scrolls by remaking characters and they deemed me not guilty.
At the time, I was farming. I had no idea that the quest was an unintended issue, and I would've farmed more if I wasn't tired that day.
So yes, Nexon does need some sort of proof that players know this is an unintended issue and abused it. Apparently, they determined it based
on how much you farm (or possible how rich your character is).[/quote]
You misread Hime. "Knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue" means that they know they're gaining a competitive advantage. That quote never said that those players [b]know[/b] it's an unintended issue, but merely that they're gaining an unfair advantage over other players by abusing that issue. They don't have to prove that the players knew it was an unintended issue though. They only had to come up with a criteria that would allow them to locate and punish the players that they felt were intentionally abusing this issue, regardless of if they knew it was an unintentional issue or not.

[quote=fubs0]If Nexon wants to use the "spirit of the game" rule to justify their action, then that would be Nexon admitting that:
1. Players has not violated any rules within the ToS.
2. Nexon has failed to notify players about potential problems.
3. Nexon managed to shift the blame of their own mistake on player's ability to see the oddity.[/quote]
[url=http://www.nexon.net/legal/terms-of-use/]Terms of Service (ToS)[/url]
1) This reason would basically fall back on the "I don't see it in the bulleted examples provided in 2.2 Code of Conduct, so I can't be punished for it" logic, which is wrong. Those bulleted examples are [b]examples[/b] to give you an idea of what actions may result in your account being punished. That's why the ToS mentions in the beginning of 2.2 Code of Conduct that Nexon may determine what actions are outside the spirit of the game and may take any actions that they deem necessary. They may not have violated a specifically printed rule in the ToS, but Nexon is accurately using the ToS against the players that abused this issue.

2) They removed the event that was the center of this issue within 24 hours after it was released via unscheduled server maintenance, if I remember correctly. Again, the "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is" statement would provide effective here. Starting in late 2006 (a good 6 years ago), I haven't been the victim of any suspensions or bans, especially since if I hear that there's some sort of advantage with little to no drawbacks, I question it or avoid it altogether. Better to be safe than sorry.

3) Occasionally, an unintended issue occurs when updating MapleStory to another version, or during a maintenance also. There has to be some sort of thought process in one's head that would say something similar to "Hey, this is a quick and easy way to get Clean Slate Scrolls without any drawbacks. Maybe this is a glitch or something else is wrong here." All Nexon games are for players 13 years and older (roughly an 8th grader or a Freshman in high school). Most players of that age would think that something was amiss when an issue like this arises. If they can't see that oddity and continue to gain such an large competitive advantage, then their punishment may come as a surprise, but they're still at fault.

[quote=fubs0]Very rarely do legal documents use vague words, which is solely up to one side to determine its meaning. It is one of the reason ToS is an agreement, but not a legal document that has laws supporting it. So, the only reason Nexon have it there is to have a back door in escaping responsibilities in what they could possibly do, and I doubt they will want to use it unless absolutely necessary.[/quote]
You might want to tell that to [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=55652]the admins of a familiar hacking site[/url], who are currently in a legal dispute with Nexon, specifically for distributing [url=http://www.southperry.net/Legal/Nexon%20America%20Inc.%20v.%20Ryan%20Michael%20Cornwall/14.%20Amended%20Complaint.pdf]hacks[/url] specifically designed for use on MapleStory. The ToS is written in accordance with the laws of the State of California, and Nexon may take legal action against you for violating the ToS (stated in Section 16 Miscellaneous of the Nexon Terms of Service).

[quote=xJunKun]Yeah they did break the ToS

You abused a glitch to break the game to make more godly gears, which in terms breaks the market soooooo enjoy the perm ban[/quote]
I didn't got perm ban and they didn't break the ToS
If anyone wish to accuse me of anything PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF.

[quote=Andwoos]I would tell them that these also look too good to be true:
Jett farm
Alien map
Ginger ale
Daily gift
Aran farm
And, I already read through the ToS.
I'd love to hear you explain why those 5 are "too good to be true," specifically the Jett and Aran farms. I don't understand why you'd say the Alien map, Ginger Ales, and Daily Gift, but I'd also like to be more informed about the Jett and Aran farms.

This is their most likely response, but to respond this way would have to admit that they are very unprofessional in their managing.
I don't see how it's unprofessional. It's in the terms of service we all agreed to when we started playing the game. The issue is that if that paragraph wasn't in the ToS, then they would have to punish players specifically on the examples given in the Code of Conduct section. Nexon most likely put that paragraph in due to the fact that some players may say "I did nothing wrong," yet they're attempting to gain a competitive advantage (doesn't have to specifically be in regards to their level), which would be greatly unfair to the many players that didn't attempt to gain that advantage. It would be considered "outside the 'spirit'" of MapleStory, in Nexon's eyes.

Another way to explain this would be to use [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/show/rules]BasilMarket's rules.[/url] Although there are a few examples of violations for each rule, a number of these rules end with "This includes [b]but is not limited to...[/b]" which does the same as the initial paragraph of 2.2 Code of Conduct in the Nexon ToS.

Well, that still doesn't prove that they player is [b]KNOWINGLY[/b] know this is an unintended issue and acted differently than jett farm and aran farm.
(I hope that I understood this question correctly since it needs more clarification or better wording. o.o)

Nexon doesn't have to prove that the players knew it was an unintentional issue to punish them. Nexon just has to look for players who appear (to them) to be taking advantage of this issue, which would be what I listed in my first post quoting you. It ties in with my response about how those players were gaining a competitive advantage and Nexon felt it was outside of the spirit of the game.[/quote]

Jett farm creating jett start off with 8 renegade coin and + 8 from artifact at average per lvl 13 jett you make net you a clean slate
Alien map aliens give off 3k exp being a lvl 95 monster with normal hp ,give off more exp than monsters up to lvl 120. Certainly too good to be true
Ginger ale pots that heal 75% both hp and mp only being around 3.8k mesos which is insainly cheap compare ginseng root/ other pots around the same price
Daily gift free stuff for log in, given enough chars/ accounts can easily farm some lucky day scroll or attack scrolls or for the purpose of remaking chars to farm lucky day
Aran farm make a level 10 aran to farm a tradable 2handed 50% scroll
now you give a chance to make a lvl 10 char to get a clean slate I would say that looks pretty normal to me.

this is hime's quote given by nexon
Remember knowingly reaping benefits from an unintended issue from the game can result in actions taken against your account. We understand there are some players who unintentionally came across the issue, it becomes apparent when it becomes intentional when the issue was abused multiple times.

So I am one of those people who farmed around 20 clean slate by remaking characters and they deemed me not guilty.
At the time I was farming I have no idea the quest is an unintended issue, and I would've farmed more if I wasn't tired that day.
So yes nexon does need some sort of proof that players know this is an unintended issue and abused it and apparently they determined it based
on how much you farm (or possible how rich your character is)

and if the nexon want to use the spirit of the game rule to justify their action.
that would be nexon admitting that
1. players has not violated any rules within the ToS
2. Nexon has failed to notify players about potential problems
3. Nexon managed to shift the blame of their own mistake on player's ability to see the oddity.

Very little does legal documents provide vague words which is solely up to one side to determine its meaning. It is one of the reason ToS is an agreement, but not an legal document that have law supporting it. So the only reason Nexon have it there is to have a back door in escaping responsibilities in what they could possibly do and I doubt they will want to use it unless absolutely necessary.

Your account is nexon property. So they can do whatever they want with your account just because...
Read the ToS, it's in it.

Oh god your the one who spammed nexon forums after they closed your thread and now your going to post on basil @.@ just drop it. It's not like you got banned permanently. Just move on already I suggest reading Thoreau or Emerson and if that doesn't help you read David Hume or wittgenstein.

[quote=fubs0]Assuming this is their actual response:
[quote=Andwoos]They'd probably suggest reading the ToS and trying to play fairly instead of trying to gain an advantage over other players. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.[/quote]
I would tell them that these also look too good to be true:
Jett farm
Alien map
Ginger ale
Daily gift
Aran farm
And, I already read through the ToS.[/quote]
I'd love to hear you explain why those 5 are "too good to be true," specifically the Jett and Aran farms. I don't understand why you'd say the Alien map, Ginger Ales, and Daily Gift, but I'd also like to be more informed about the Jett and Aran farms.

[quote=fubs0][quote=Andwoos]"While using the Service and Software, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to take any actions we deem necessary and appropriate to preserve the integrity of the Service and Software. We further reserve the right to determine what conduct is outside the 'spirit' of the Service and games provided therein."
[url=http://www.nexon.net/legal/terms-of-use/]2.2 Code of Conduct[/url]

The last two sentences here simply say that, if they'd like, they can punish players for actions that Nexon feels goes against what they feel is appropriate for their games. In the case of these bans, Nexon apparently felt that players creating multiple characters to gain more coins and items went against what they felt was OK to happen in their game.[/quote]

This is their most likely response, but to respond this way would have to admit that they are very unprofessional in their managing.[/quote]
I don't see how it's unprofessional. It's in the terms of service we all agreed to when we started playing the game. The issue is that if that paragraph wasn't in the ToS, then they would have to punish players specifically on the examples given in the Code of Conduct section. Nexon most likely put that paragraph in due to the fact that some players may say "I did nothing wrong," yet they're attempting to gain a competitive advantage (doesn't have to specifically be in regards to their level), which would be greatly unfair to the many players that didn't attempt to gain that advantage. It would be considered "outside the 'spirit'" of MapleStory, in Nexon's eyes.

Another way to explain this would be to use [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/show/rules]BasilMarket's rules.[/url] Although there are a few examples of violations for each rule, a number of these rules end with "This includes [b]but is not limited to...[/b]" which does the same as the initial paragraph of 2.2 Code of Conduct in the Nexon ToS.

[quote=fubs0][quote=Andwoos]When you have players that haven't made any characters, or maybe one or two characters over the past months, then they suddenly make multiple characters after a specific update (and after a short period of time, as it usually happens on Maple), it's most likely that they're trying to take advantage of something from the new update that requires making multiple new characters. Not to mention that if you're only leveling them until level 10, then deleting and making another character, and repeating this process, you're not making characters to play on them as most people normally would.[/quote]

Well, that still doesn't prove that they player is [b]KNOWINGLY[/b] know this is an unintended issue and acted differently than jett farm and aran farm.[/quote]
(I hope that I understood this question correctly since it needs more clarification or better wording. o.o)

Nexon doesn't have to prove that the players knew it was an unintentional issue to punish them. Nexon just has to look for players who appear (to them) to be taking advantage of this issue, which would be what I listed in my first post quoting you. It ties in with my response about how those players were gaining a competitive advantage and Nexon felt it was outside of the spirit of the game.

[quote=mizutonaikura]when the witch belt glitch was on (When you could get coins from newties) nobody cried, Everyone farmed.

when there was a quest where you got EXP for giving an NPC a diamond (forgot which) nobody cried.

These glitches aren't meant to be for people to farm, their simply a blindspot on the Q&A Tester's, If Nexon intended to make this game "perfect" then it would be impossible to make any economic value, take ages to perfect and by the time they do, who would play?

I say I agree, Those who did farm those shouldn't have been hell banned but instead, banned till those coins become useless to the point that the only thing to do is drop it. Nexon took to much of a drastic measure, What's the worse that could happen if EVERYONE got these coins? practically all of the stuff are untradeable, They won't ruin anybody's enjoyment of the game.[/quote]

ok.........
I don't believe you know the full story. The farming of coin was to get AEE or clean slate which are already bought in the act of farm. Useless coins are deleted along with
deleted characters. So banning them until event is over doesn't get rid of AEE or clean slate, it only makes people more mad.

and your logic is clearly flawed
first of all give me evidence this is a glitch
Secondly, give reason based off your reasoning alone to distinguish this event from other too good to be true stuff listed above

when the witch belt glitch was on (When you could get coins from newties) nobody cried, Everyone farmed.

when there was a quest where you got EXP for giving an NPC a diamond (forgot which) nobody cried.

These glitches aren't meant to be for people to farm, their simply a blindspot on the Q&A Tester's, If Nexon intended to make this game "perfect" then it would be impossible to make any economic value, take ages to perfect and by the time they do, who would play?

I say I agree, Those who did farm those shouldn't have been hell banned but instead, banned till those coins become useless to the point that the only thing to do is drop it. Nexon took to much of a drastic measure, What's the worse that could happen if EVERYONE got these coins? practically all of the stuff are untradeable, They won't ruin anybody's enjoyment of the game.

@fubs0: those things were in kms; maybe kms players DID abuse these; maybe kms didn't care; so it was allowed over to gms

quoting your quote of the TOS; "any actions we deem nesesccary" that means nexon can do what ever they want
overruled
case closed
no more explanation

So far Mods on the website has been deleting my reminder to them of the questions.
It seems like Nexon want to completely ignore them and try to make players forget about them as time pass

[quote=MeMagicalPie]@m3zmur1ze: I just assume everything that isn't "Gms exclusive" is a Kms copy paste

This is just me, but it's hard for me to see Nexon America as being "generous" enough to add something that benefits players for free[/quote]
I dont know theses seems pretty generous to me
jett farm
alien map
ginger ale
daily gift
aran farm

@Andwoos
assuming this is their actual response
[b] They'd probably suggest reading the ToS and trying to play fairly instead of trying to gain an advantage over other players. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.[/b]
I would tell them that these also look too good to be true and I already read through the ToS
jett farm
alien map
ginger ale
daily gift
aran farm

[b]"While using the Service and Software, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to take any actions we deem necessary and appropriate to preserve the integrity of the Service and Software. We further reserve the right to determine what conduct is outside the 'spirit' of the Service and games provided therein."
2.2 Code of Conduct

The last two sentences here simply say that, if they'd like, they can punish players for actions that Nexon feels goes against what they feel is appropriate for their games. In the case of these bans, Nexon apparently felt that players creating multiple characters to gain more coins and items went against what they felt was OK to happen in their game.[/b]

This is their most likely response, but to respond this way would have to admit that they are very unprofessional in their managing.

[b]When you have players that haven't made any characters, or maybe one or two characters over the past months, then they suddenly make multiple characters after a specific update (and after a short period of time, as it usually happens on Maple), it's most likely that they're trying to take advantage of something from the new update that requires making multiple new characters. Not to mention that if you're only leveling them until level 10, then deleting and making another character, and repeating this process, you're not making characters to play on them as most people normally would. [/b]
well that still doesn't prove that they player is KNOWINGLY know this is an unintended issue and acted differently than jett farm and aran farm

@m3zmur1ze: "require?" doubt? this is nexon we're talking about

if kms worked out all the errors, the only glitches we should have should be language errors

[quote=fubs0]Can nexon suggest ways in which we can identify unintended issues?[/quote]
They'd probably suggest reading the ToS and trying to play fairly instead of trying to gain an advantage over other players. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

[quote=fubs0]Is Nexon's actions currently written within the ToS? If yes, where? If not, is it going to be in the ToS?[/quote]
Although it's not specifically listed as a reason (taking advantage of this event), in the Code of Conduct section, it's headed by a "we can ban you if your reason isn't specifically listed below" paragraph:

"While using the Service and Software, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. [i]We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to take any actions we deem necessary and appropriate to preserve the integrity of the Service and Software. We further reserve the right to determine what conduct is outside the 'spirit' of the Service and games provided therein.[/i]"
[url=http://www.nexon.net/legal/terms-of-use/]2.2 Code of Conduct[/url]

The last two sentences here simply say that, if they'd like, they can punish players for actions that Nexon feels goes against what they feel is appropriate for their games. In the case of these bans, Nexon apparently felt that players creating multiple characters to gain more coins and items went against what they felt was OK to happen in their game.

[quote=fubs0]When the issue was abused multiple times, how does it suddenly prove that players are doing it intentionally, knowing it's an unintended issue?[/quote]
When you have players that haven't made any characters, or maybe one or two characters over the past months, then they suddenly make multiple characters after a specific update (and after a short period of time, as it usually happens on Maple), it's most likely that they're trying to take advantage of something from the new update that requires making multiple new characters. Not to mention that if you're only leveling them until level 10, then deleting and making another character, and repeating this process, you're not making characters to play on them as most people normally would.

@m3zmur1ze: I just assume everything that isn't "Gms exclusive" is a Kms copy paste

This is just me, but it's hard for me to see Nexon America as being "generous" enough to add something that benefits players for free

[quote=prodassin]too long didnt read [/quote]

did you read the TLDR?

again by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F582526-60-coin-quest-questions-when-hime-closed-the-thread-5-%28revised%29%26p%3D4839772%23post4839772

I got it on the first day.. only had it on my main but never abused it... i never knew it was a glitch/not glitch i just accepted the quest randomly lol

for heavens sake, u dont need to read all that
they abused it lol, and i cant even believe they dont know it
AND
now they dont wanna be banned
nexon shoulda just hell banned till they removed the items
then raised the level limit of the quest, so the REST of us coulda gotten the 60 coins!
jeez
actually they used to do that with the gfa scroll quest in nlc, the level limit was 30
but that was so much work, i think those ppl just desparate for mesos
how u all think of this stuff so FAST LOL

[quote=calabari]@fubs0: Have you stopped to think that they just simply removed it because they didn't want people farming 6 coins either?
That would be much more to fix, wouldn't it?[/quote]

I am pretty sure nexon wont care if people repeatedly make character for 6 home coming coins because there is nothing you can get

by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F582526-60-coin-quest-questions-when-hime-closed-the-thread-5-%28revised%29%26p%3D4839772%23post4839772

@fubs0: Have you stopped to think that they just simply removed it because they didn't want people farming 6 coins either?
That would be much more to fix, wouldn't it?

[quote=calabari]@fubs0 "P. The event was not an "error in design" but a "poor design".
P. Said players therefore did not violate the "error in design" rule stated in the ToS.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned."

Ok so you think that because they accidentally gave out 60 coins, it's a poor design?
I'm going to assume that the event was supposed to give out 6, thus creating an [b]error[/b] in the programming. They didn't hand out 60 coins because they worded something weird, they handed 60 coins because they made a mistake. Mistake = Error.

Please post your reasons why it was not an error in design.[/quote]

If you have any programing backgrounds, you would know that 60 coins would be an integer within the sea of codes which is relatively easy to spot compare to other bugs/ glitches.
So instead of simply changing the variable of the codes to give out 6 coins, nexon chose to remove the quest which suggest that there is nothing to fix to begin with.
However, there is also the possibility of nexon simply being way too lazy.
I would also like to stress [b] that nexon have yet given any confirmation of this event being a glitch or an error in design.[/b]

what can you possibly farm with 6 coins?

@fubs0 "P. The event was not an "error in design" but a "poor design".
P. Said players therefore did not violate the "error in design" rule stated in the ToS.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned."

Ok so you think that because they accidentally gave out 60 coins, it's a poor design?
I'm going to assume that the event was supposed to give out 6, thus creating an [b]error[/b] in the programming. They didn't hand out 60 coins because they worded something weird, they handed 60 coins because they made a mistake. Mistake = Error.

Please post your reasons why it was not an error in design.

[quote=imshocute]wow the broken record of a thread is starting to invade other forums?

nobody cares. give it a rest.[/quote]

not saying you should care, but for those in fear of being wrongfully banned should care

by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F582526-60-coin-quest-questions-when-hime-closed-the-thread-5-%28revised%29%26p%3D4839772%23post4839772

wow the broken record of a thread is starting to invade other forums?

nobody cares. give it a rest.

@MeMagicalPie:
error in design = objective
something went wrong with the coding and something unintended happened
poor design = subjective
everything went according to plan and no flaws in code and everything was intended except its a bad idea

In this case Nexon simply removed the quest instead of fixing it, which suggest that there is nothing to fix to begin with and therefore
it is more likely to be a poor design instead of error in design.

I am not sure what does korean have to do with this, since this doesn't look like an event carried from KMS

@fubs0: So isn't this an error in design? The Koreans didn't abuse it; we did

[quote=MeMagicalPie]@fubs0: Well maybe it's because they didn't know about the earlier events. And please read my comment before you say I have an argument. I said I had NO OPINION. Just because of you, I'm going to be for the ban now. The TOS states you can't do ANYTHING to benefit from farming events. I'm pretty sure anything means everything.

It's not much, and it's a weak argument; and I'm probably going to be flamed; but an argument; nonetheless[/quote]

Please indicate which line the ToS said that. I am pretty sure it just said you can't abuse glitches, error in design etc.
It honestly doesn't matter which side your on, both side have valid reason to demand answers from nexon concerning the questions I have provided.

@Only12
at least its a start which we can see step by step possibly

by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F582526-60-coin-quest-questions-when-hime-closed-the-thread-5-%28revised%29%26p%3D4839772%23post4839772

@fubs0: Well maybe it's because they didn't know about the earlier events. And please read my comment before you say I have an argument. I said I had NO OPINION. Just because of you, I'm going to be for the ban now. The TOS states you can't do ANYTHING to benefit from farming events. I'm pretty sure anything means everything.

It's not much, and it's a weak argument; and I'm probably going to be flamed; but an argument; nonetheless

@yoyoyo25971:
except this case this event NOBODY KNEW WAS MESSED UP because 60 coin simply net you a clean slate which you done it before with jett
in your case everybody know its messed up

by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F582526-60-coin-quest-questions-when-hime-closed-the-thread-5-%28revised%29%26p%3D4839772%23post4839772

[quote=fubs0]your logic doesn't apply to what's been happening for the last 11 month please READ ALL the arguments if u wish to refute something

P. Nexon did nothing to the players who used similar methods to benefit from past events (e.g. 50% scroll for Arans or jett renegade coin farm).
P. Because nothing was stated in the ToS that one couldn't create characters to benefit from events, with the addition of the fact that Nexon did nothing to the accounts that did, said players assumed they violated no rules and that Nexon was okay with said players creating characters.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned.[/quote]

Read my previous post.

[quote=UrinalMint]then log off and dont come back if you find these faults to be annoying [/quote]

was only refering to the things nexon failed to do. the flaws the TS stated pale in relative comparsion to the real problems.

[quote=MeMagicalPie]My question is; if you didn't create many characters; but used only the preexisting ones; did you get banned?
Even if you used all 15?

An argument for : Abusing anything to "farm" with ease is against the TOS. At least that's what it said on the site;

Personally, I have no opinion because I only claimed the coins on one character
I have no idea what happened[/quote]
your logic doesn't apply to what's been happening for the last 11 month please READ ALL the arguments if u wish to refute something

P. Nexon did nothing to the players who used similar methods to benefit from past events (e.g. 50% scroll for Arans or jett renegade coin farm).
P. Because nothing was stated in the ToS that one couldn't create characters to benefit from events, with the addition of the fact that Nexon did nothing to the accounts that did, said players assumed they violated no rules and that Nexon was okay with said players creating characters.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned.