Paladin Vs. Hero Damage Comparison
Welcome! By now I'm sure all of us are sick of the "What would my Range/Damage be if I switched to Pally/Hero" threads.
In response I've made this analysis (with numbers!) to help warriors decide whether or not to use that Job Advancement Coin.
[b]I have used my own character and job changed from Hero to Pally for this experiment.[/b]
So without further ado, lets hop right into the two classes.
I've bolded the higher values in the stats window for easy comparison.
For reference, these changes are performed on a Level [b]203[/b] Warrior with around 700 Att and 180% STR.
He also has 6% Total damage, Demon Avenger/Kanna Link, Pally/Thunder Breaker Character Card effect.
[header=hero]Hero[/header]
[header2]Stats[/header2]
[url=http://i60.tinypic.com/sosm52.png]Stat window with buffs.[/url]
Range: 276,168~306,854 Buffed. No hyper, no AB Link
Unbuffed Range: [b]~260k[/b]
Att: 764
Boss Damage: [b]207%[/b]
PDR: [b]115%[/b]
Crit: 61%, 81% Enrage
[header2]Damage[/header2]
Mob Raging Blow: [b]2m~3m[/b]
Mob Panic: [b]10m[/b]
Mob Incising: [b]10m~15m[/b]
Mob Rising Rage: [b]4~5m[/b]
(Boss hit with Panic, Incising, Enrage)
Boss Raging Blow: [b]9.5m, 10m~11m Crit[/b]
Boss Panic: [b]30m~40m[/b]
Boss Incising: [b]20m[/b]
Boss Rising Rage: [b]15m~20m[/b]
Root Abyss/Gollux Raging Blow: [b]4.5m~5.5m[/b]
Root Abyss/Gollux Panic: [b]10m~15m[/b]
Root Abyss/Gollux Incising: [b]8m~10m[/b]
Root Abyss/Gollux Rising Rage: [b]7m~8m[/b]
[header2]Misc. Stats[/header2]
Dojo finish time: [b]10:32[/b]
Party Skill: Rage
MP Management w/ Healing Familiar: Excellent
[header=pally]Paladin[/header]
[header2]Stats[/header2]
[url=http://i61.tinypic.com/9hsvvd.png]Stat window with buffs.[/url]
Range: [b]458,858~504,199[/b] Buffed. No hyper, no AB Link
Unbuffed Range: ~230k
Att: [b]794[/b]
Boss Damage: 197%
PDR: 65%
Crit: [b]61%, 100% Blast Buff[/b]
[header2]Damage[/header2]
Mob Divine: [b]3m~3.5m[/b]
Mob Lightning: [b]4m~4.5m[/b]
Mob Blast: [b]3m[/b]
Mob Smite Shield: [b]3m~4m[/b]
Boss Divine: [b]5m~6m[/b]
Boss Lightning: [b]6m~7m[/b]
Boss Blast: [b]5m~6m[/b]
Boss Hammer: [b]20m[/b]
[header2]Misc. Stats[/header2]
Dojo finish time: [b]13:25[/b]
Party Skill: Combat Orders
MP Management w/ Healing Familiar: Excellent
[header=pally]Verdict[/header]
So right off the bat, we see that Heroes have superior damage against bosses with low PDR and no damage reductions. With nearly [i]3 minutes[/i] difference in Dojo times, Heroes are able to dish out huge amounts of damage onto such bosses. However, they perform lackluster against bosses like Gollux or Root Abyss.
Take, for example, Gollux. While I was a Hero I tried Hard Gollux 10 times and failed each time. Not only did my Hero fail at the Eyes section of Gollux, but by the time I made it there, I was already [b]20 minutes[/b] into the fight.
When I switched to Pally, the Gollux fight became [i]significantly[/i] less difficult. With 0 deaths, I cleared the boss on my first try in a little under [b]9 minutes.[/b]
As far as gameplay goes, Paladins must alternate Charges and activate their Blast Buff two times to achieve maximum damage. Heroes build up their combo orbs and consume 1 out of those 10 to activate Enrage, thus achieving their maximum damage. From my experience, Alternating charges in the middle of a bossfight on my Pally and checking the stats window to see if I was at max was sometimes inconvenient.
Personally I have always been a die-hard Hero since 2009 and when the next Job Advancement coin is distributed, I will switch back. But that does [i]not[/i] mean Paladins not are a great class. Their versatility and survivability exceeds that of any Hero and proved to be a very interesting and fun class. My personal playstyle involves a lot of active-dodging and jump attacks. With a Pally I felt almost grounded while using Blast.
[b]Hero: Visibly lower range, faster Dojo time, higher damage on "low-end" bosses, easier jump-attack capability, further Rush range, and active gameplay.[/b]
[b]Paladin: Visibly higher range but lower damage output, superior defensive capabilities and survival, healing skill use in Pot-locked bosses, full damage on Root Abyss/Gollux/Ect, dynamic gameplay and use of multiple attacks.[/b]
I hope I could provide good insight onto the damages of both classes
This thread took me some time to create so if you know anyone who is deciding on whether or not to change jobs, please direct them here!
33 Comments • Newest first
[quote=bqweekk]Just sayin..my drk with similar stats has under 9min..DRK>PALLE HERRO... This is not my personal best.
http://postimg.org/image/bbx0uzyhf/ 50atk from pots there.
Gollux takes 6-7mins. And that range is outdated.[/quote]
Oh hey youre in my alliance
not raining on your parade OP, in fact i thank you, but this is what i and amany have been telling others for waay too long.
"pallies are better endgame, heroes are better at easy bosses" i do appreciate the post though because you finally added numbers, not from theorycrafting, but from using the same gear and literally everything a funded X would have, just changing the class.
so now anyone that tries to argue with me the above phrase is getting a redirect here. if i wasn't a spearman i'd have done the same as you.
lol oh man; kk, i was a 190 hero and ive recently just switched from hero to pally. Everything OP concluded about dojo times, gollux/RA (high phys resist bosses) overall dps is spot on. hero>pally low defense bosses / pally>hero higher end bosses, what you scrubs up there seem to not understand about dps is that its overall damage over an interval of time, it doesn't matter about single line damage numbers in the end. Also all those bs statements about "you have to take into consideration etc etc" HES PLAYING THE DAM CLASS, how are all of the classes passives and buffs not taken into consideration? literally impossible. (and i lold about the time being longer for pally in dojo cause of buffing? lolol nice theory. it took me 22min as a hero, and 28min as a paladin (it doesnt take me 6+mins to buff). Plus SW bosses take noticeably longer on my paladin (these are short single bosses where the time to buff isnt even taken into account since you are already buffed come boss time.
i could go on and on, but i just had to vent, OP's info really helped me decide what class i wanted to play and he didnt need all these nub responses,
@JustMech26
He's only trying to help, there's no need to be abusive please.
Seeing all the Warriors asking for dps comparison help it's a great thing OP is trying to do, just a bit of work and you'll be dishing out that solid info for the masses
[quote=JustMech26]Dude are u stupid or what? I said it in my previous comment but I see you still don't get it:
Paladin hits 10 times while Hero hits 5/6 so even if Hero hits 2x per 1 hit it evens out because pally hits 2x more hits -1 hit so the damage output is pretty much the same and
if u wanted to measure it accurately u should have given more accurate numbers.
You are a funded level 203 warrior, how the f*** u dont understand such basic things?[/quote]
Keep your cool, buster
It seems we've forgotten that Heroes have Advanced Final Attack which deals 2 extra lines of about the same damage (9~10m in my case) at a 60% proc chance per Raging Blow.
Factor that in and Hero DPS increases slightly.
Heroes will generally have higher damage [b]per line[/b], that's all.
So far the only time I've seen my Pally hit higher numbers per line than my Hero was against Gollux with a Divine Charge after the stun from a Lightning Charge.
This was very recent (due to gear upgrades maybe?) and amounts to 8~9m per line.
[quote=Dounty]Exactly. To put 'Paladin vs Hero Damage Comparison' as a thread title when youre only comparing dojo time is actually bold. I still stand by what I said, that paladin beat hero's damage end-game training-wise and end-game bossing-wise.[/quote]
Lol no
Pay attention to the thread, I never said Heroes were better than Paladins.
I compared the [url=http://i57.tinypic.com/b8qlnn.png]damage output[/url] of each job's main attacks.
In any case, thanks for the thread bumps, appreciate it.
[quote=Dounty]So, @TS Hero is only good for dojo? Cause as far as I know, hero got 50% damage reduction at bosses like emp, CRA and such, compared to paladin who deals 100% true damage. And the party skill for paladin isn't just combat order, paladin also has threaten, revive, parashock guard, smite which gives the party an extra 20 seconds immunity.
Your comparison isn't that depth, and I advice u to stop making a short 'verdict' to ur limited findings.[/quote]
The purpose of this thread was to compare [b]damage output[/b] based on only switching classes.
There are already different threads that compare each in terms of other factors such as party skills and bossing capability.
Not once did I mention one class was better than the other.
[quote=bqweekk]Just sayin..my drk with similar stats has under 9min..DRK>PALLE HERRO... This is not my personal best.
http://postimg.org/image/bbx0uzyhf/ 50atk from pots there.
Gollux takes 6-7mins. And that range is outdated.[/quote]
I would have compared a Drk too but I didn't have a Spear/PA that was scrolled well enough to match up with my Sword.
Just sayin..my drk with similar stats has under 9min..DRK>PALLE HERRO... This is not my personal best.
http://postimg.org/image/bbx0uzyhf/ 50atk from pots there.
Gollux takes 6-7mins. And that range is outdated.
@SombraManx: Well the video wasn't a comparison between totally unfunded characters. He kept all his normal gear on and just used clean weapons to have a semi constant. It's different than a comparison between a Hero and Paladin since those two use the same weapons while DrKs and Heroes do not.
@HitThings:
Wow, nice o.o
Another thing pally's are good at are jq's (use sacrosanctity), so get all your jq's done while you're a pally.
[quote=mvietp09]That was a very noble sacrifice you made there. I did wonder how they compared upon changing jobs. Welcome to the Paladin community btw. [/quote]
Thanks thanks
All I know is Pallys are freaking Gods at Hard Gollux.
After switching, my very first try took half the time of my Hero with 0 deaths.
fantastic post!
[quote=HitThings]Oh LOL, sorry I used a Job Change coin.
That was the whole purpose, to see the difference when you only change jobs.
Character, Gear, and Link Skills were all kept constant for this research
So yes, Hero community, I'm a Pally for the time being
I hoped it wouldn't have come down to this, but it was for science[/quote]
That was a very noble sacrifice you made there. I did wonder how they compared upon changing jobs. Welcome to the Paladin community btw.
[quote=Xploithero]I find Hero's to be more enjoyable as i feel like they are more mobile
I felt that paladins had to stand still after attacking
also these are pretty biased because the paladin has a higher range, not only that on some certain bosses like vellum he pops up and down and heroes attack faster but weak[/quote]
Apologize since "I've been proved from"? No I don't owe you an apology...your point was invalid. You clearly stated that his screen shots were "pretty biased because the paladin has a higher range..." He pointed out that the hero had the higher clean range while the paladin's range was only higher when fully buffed. I refuted your statement, not his. I apologized to him because I thought he was proving you wrong and I misinterpreted it as something else. As for you my friend, re-read your first post and compare it with the others. If your eyes are still closed by then, then I guess you just wont get it.
[quote=Golfer]There is actually a YouTube video of a hero doing that. He used no secondaries and clean level 110 weapons for both.[/quote]
comparring classes when unfunded is totally useless, some classes get more than others when you fund them, and all classes act differently
a dark knight with all that % total dmg will get less dmg increase from lets say 300% boss dmg compared to a hero.. and so on many things to compare
[quote=kyuubi]@HitThings I see. No prob, my curiosity was aroused and you cleared it up lolz.
@Xploithero Do you have any proof of this? Going solely off his screen shots, a paladin's range is higher than a hero's range when both equip the exact same gears...and people I know in scania can testify that this is accurate since they've done it themselves.
...but since the exact opposite happened in your case...his screen shots are false I presume? ...because your statement is more accurate than any SS, right?[/quote]
Wanna apologise since you've been proved from?
[quote=PhreshPrynce]Very interesting... but no, you cant switch back to your hero just yet. For the good of science, we NEED you to switch to drk now and share with us your findings. Do it, do it for science! How ever you are going to manage what ever atk spear you feel you must use to balance it all out is completely up to you. We are leaving this task to your trusting hands, plz dont disappoint, you are the last hope.
Your country needs you.[/quote]
There is actually a YouTube video of a hero doing that. He used no secondaries and clean level 110 weapons for both.
Well at least you did it for science.
You don't need to check your stats window to see if you're at max charges, the buff icon on the top right of the screen actually shows a little counter that goes from 1-5.
Very interesting... but no, you cant switch back to your hero just yet. For the good of science, we NEED you to switch to drk now and share with us your findings. Do it, do it for science! How ever you are going to manage what ever atk spear you feel you must use to balance it all out is completely up to you. We are leaving this task to your trusting hands, plz dont disappoint, you are the last hope.
Your country needs you.
We were talking about the buffed range, not the clean range. Your SS depicts both the hero's and the paladin's buffed range respectively lolz.
@HitThings I see your point lolz, my apologies... x)
@Xploithero actually back when I sampled hero a month ago my clean range was HIGHER than that of my paladin.
@kyuubi
@Xploithero
It seems there's some confusion here.
Unbuffed my Hero sat at 270k Range.
Unbuffed my Pally has only 230k Range.
Other factors affecting range on my Warrior include: 6% Total damage, Demon Avenger/Kanna Link, Pally/Thunder Breaker Character Card effect
For my Pally's SS, I used Blast Buff and stacked 5 Charges, which resulted in the higher output
@HitThings I see. No prob, my curiosity was aroused and you cleared it up lolz.
@Xploithero Do you have any proof of this? Going solely off his screen shots, a paladin's range is higher than a hero's range when both equip the exact same gears...and people I know in scania can testify that this is accurate since they've done it themselves.
...but since the exact opposite happened in your case...his screen shots are false I presume? ...because your statement is more accurate than any SS, right?
@kyuubi: Hahahahaha, good joke, I used the same gear when i changed from pally->hero yet my range increased by almost double clean
[quote=kyuubi]@Xploithero I find Hero's to be more enjoyable as i feel like they are more mobile
I felt that paladins had to stand still after attacking
also these are pretty biased because the paladin has a higher range, not only that on some certain bosses like vellum he pops up and down and heroes attack faster but weak
I disagree, yes the pally has a higher range, but he probably used the same gears on both chars seeing their total str and att are nearly the same. What puzzles me is how he managed to get the exact same honor lvl & exp on both chars...[/quote]
Oh LOL, sorry I used a Job Change coin.
That was the whole purpose, to see the difference when you only change jobs.
Character, Gear, and Link Skills were all kept constant for this research
So yes, Hero community, I'm a Pally for the time being
I hoped it wouldn't have come down to this, but it was for science
[quote=kyuubi]I disagree, yes the pally has a higher range, but he probably used the same gears on both chars seeing their total str and att are nearly the same. What puzzles me is how he managed to get the exact same honor lvl & exp on both chars...[/quote]
He job changed if you read the thread
@Xploithero I find Hero's to be more enjoyable as i feel like they are more mobile
I felt that paladins had to stand still after attacking
also these are pretty biased because the paladin has a higher range, not only that on some certain bosses like vellum he pops up and down and heroes attack faster but weak[/quote]
I disagree, yes the pally has a higher range, but he probably used the same gears on both chars seeing their total str and att are nearly the same. What puzzles me is how he managed to get the exact same honor lvl & exp on both chars...
i just cant resist hammers i love paladin qq
Really great and informative thread Should help people out if they ever ask this lol
[quote=Xploithero]I find Hero's to be more enjoyable as i feel like they are more mobile
I felt that paladins had to stand still after attacking
also these are pretty biased because the paladin has a higher range, not only that on some certain bosses like vellum he pops up and down and heroes attack faster but weak[/quote]
I agree with you completely. It was hard for me to Blast and jump around Gollux as a Paladin.
As a result, I found myself getting hit more frequently and just healing myself away.
During one of my Hero's best Gollux runs, I managed to avoid all of Gollux's attacks in the Jaw phase.
I find Hero's to be more enjoyable as i feel like they are more mobile
I felt that paladins had to stand still after attacking
also these are pretty biased because the paladin has a higher range, not only that on some certain bosses like vellum he pops up and down and heroes attack faster but weak