General

@Lyrical:

Interesting...so comparing a Shad to a Dual Blade is like comparing a shield to a sword? fair enough

Hahaha, I have a habit of not replying to threads that are already replied to you know? And I was busy making a guide. Didn't really have time. Anyways, to really compare classes, you got to hit both 4th job of the class and hit a certain level where most of the skills that are max can truly determined if the class is better or not. Shadowers and Dual Blades are both strong but it's kind of like they're opposite which makes them balance. Shadowers speed isn't as fast as Dual Blades and they're not super strong but they make up for it with their Defensive Capabilities and while Dual Blades have faster speed and a bit stronger, they lack HP or defensive techniques but each class has something to make up for it. Shadowers have pretty good combination attacks with meso dropping everywhere and blowing things up while doing savage blow and BStep. Dual Blades have some skills that can make up for lack of HP but it's all about control as well from the player.

But.. yeah when I reply to a thread that someone already said what I wanted to say. I don't reply unless my opinion is different.

I agree with Lyrical, DBs are more of an offensive class and Shadowers are more of a defensive class.

The BB did also buff up Shadowers. Eg. My friend is a shadower a few lvls below me and her assassinate outdamages my Final cut any day =/ *sniff* almost makes me wanna make a CB. She also has more defensive capabilities however, i love the mobility that DBs get and the iframe is surperb. Just cuz DBs are strong, doesn't mean we don't have weak points. What i really hate about Dbs is the low hp and the low defence we get. Without my pet i'm nothing but a moving target while a CB doesn't always need to rely on a pet. But still, love the flashy moves (:

Funding for end game dps. >.>
It's obvious, that dbs and shadowers have similar type of equips.
So if you pump the same about of nx into cubing your gear, your DB would seem better at bossing, but in reality shadowers would be better.
ME now depends on your range and not the amount of meso that you drop.
Add pickpocket to that and Shadowers are one of the best trainers, come LionHeart, and one of the best bossers w/ CZak and Zak.
People forget that Shadowers need to use a combination of all their attacks in order to have the best dps. :S

@mpham13 Ren actually got married yesterday on Maple and I believe he trained a little yesterday.

[quote=Ichimurai] They had the exact same funding (Actually to be fair i put even more funding into the CB >_&gt and yet somehow the Dual Blade always surpassed it in terms of damage, surviving, mobilizing.[/quote]
Expecting to get equal or close to equal results with the exact same funding is actually quite skewed. Reason being, a Dual Blade and a Dit's damage formula's are totally different. A Dual Blader's damage regards a Dagger & Katara as separate entities. Meaning the damage you dish out with the Dagger does not factor into the damage you put out with the Katara. The Dit on the other hand, the Shield is taken into account alongside the Dagger, basically adding onto the weapon attack. In order for you to get a adequate comparison you would have to fund the Dit plenty more. As for mobility and survivability, a Shadower has always retained the elite surviving skills because it is how they're built. Think of it this way, a Dual Blader is an offensive machine wheras a Shadower is defensive. Again offense =/= defense, because they are built differently and hold different characteristics. As for mobility, that is the only thing post-bb that made a difference factor and even now after BB the DB will still retain that mobile edge because once again I point out that, Shads are a defensive class.

[b]DB with a dagger that's 100 att/ katara 50 att =/= Dit with a dagger 100 att/ shield 20 att[/b]

[quote=Ichimurai] ...I can't believe this...i always thought that players were strong because they worked hard...but now i see that dual blades are in fact superior in every way...[/quote]
To be honest all players get strong because they work hard at it, but you would have to ask [b]yourself[/b] what your definition of strong is because it might not be the same as the next person. A person that is content with his damage would think he is strong because he is happy with what he has. A person that is constantly comparing himself to others and feeling weak may never be happy because he will always be chasing damage. Also keep in mind that not every class is created and developed to be equal. If that were the case a Mage and a Warrior would not have superior MP or HP, they would retain the same amount as the other 3 classes. Also there wouldn't be any ranged/melee classes because a ranged class has an edge over melee when it comes to surviving. Like every MMORPG that have different classes/jobs, each individual class has strengths and weaknesses. Sooner people realize that or open their minds to that notion, the sooner people would be begin to understand.

[quote=Ichimurai] I'm very confused... Hmm...maybe they'll be equal @ 130 or so? =([/quote]
That is doubtful, even though Dual Blades lost some of their damage output on certain areas and the Shadowers gained plenty of skill they still wont be evenly matched on certain aspects. A Dual Blade excels in mobbing and mobility, where a Shad excels in defensive and 1 on combat. To be honest a Shad would be a far more elite bosser than a DB would be (atleast until Chaos) due to the skill sets. Having an evenly matched DB and a CB is wishful thinking, it would be like comparing a Cleric to an I/L mage. No matter what, the Cleric will always be a supportive/defense type whereas the I/L will be an offensive juggernaut.

I'm just simply pointing out that nexon will always have an elite class, because that way they will always have a reason to make changes and amends. If everything were to be perfectly balanced there wouldn't ever need to be a change meaning they would stunt their potential to develop the game. Also there wouldn't be a competitive aspect of the game. As gamers we are suppose to adapt and master our characters, just like how athletes are in real life. If they lack in some areas, they either work harder or specialize to compensate for what they lack in.

[i]Prime example, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are both championship players, and you can compare their similarities all you want but each player had a different set of skills they have mastered. Kobe will never be exactly what Jordan was and same could be said the other way.[/i]

well doesnt it make a bit of sense that DBs do a bit mroe than Dits. I mean clearly Dits have the better survaliblty, that did not change so assuming Big Bang is about balancing the classes, if you gave Dits superiour damage over DBs, mind you Dits have better defense than DBs, where is the balance? Cause then Dits out do DBs in damage and survailbity -balance?

That is not to say that DBs should blow Dits out the water in terms of DPS, DBs should do higher Dps to make up for the lack of defense given to Dits, however and dont twist my words, not by such large margin that it is laughable . (on an aside, who is going to do more damage the guy with 2 weapons coming at you or the one with a weapon and shield >_>,,, lol)

i think both have strong points and weak points
Same with WH and Bam Same with
CKs and Explorers
every class is [b][/b]DiffrentPerSe

@UmmDatGuy: and i'll huff and i'll puff and i'll blow your argument away!

[quote=UmmDatGuy]Its funny you say the statement is crap yet at the end of your statement there you say we have different play styles to suit everyone and thats pretty much what he was trying to say unless im reading too far into your post =/[/quote]

What you said actually made no sense. I was referring to him saying no class is better than another class, which if you're talking about enjoyability then yea they're all equal herp herp, but if you're talking about anything else, then yea that statement is bs.

In terms of DPM, dualers are better. But Shadowers get insane survivability and now have almost as much mobility as the dualer class.

I think you'll find that with enough funding shadowers may level with them (while the dualer uses it on ever decreasing +%luk, the shadower can get a 20+atk Dkhanjar and WOO GG)

[quote=UmmDatGuy]Umm I dont see how and why you think DB's are stronger like what solid examples can you provide that makes us stronger than shads cause I'm pretty sure our damage is equal but I do like our i-frames better but shads have better defensive capabilities, please post some numbers from these tests so we can see what you mean pl0x =]

Edit: This isnt me defending one class or another I just wanna see what he's seeing so I can compare for myself.[/quote]

What solid evidence do you have that makes your damage equal? NONE. soo....I WIN BY DEFAULT.

[quote=mpham13]Both Shad's and Db's have strong points. No class is better then another class. Play a class that fits your style. And since your still on 3rd job, its hard to compare which job is more suited for your style. Enjoy both =D[/quote]

I think it's time we stopped saying this crap. not all classes are equal. It's simple as that, but who said they needed to be? the main reason for different classes is to provide different play styles to please more players.

@Ichimurai actually DBs were OP before BB. Classes just caught up to them now. Post BB however, we a little weaker in some areas. Thorns got a deduction in crit rate which is a decrease to our damage out-put. To be honest, I already knew DBs wern't going to get weakened like most maplers thought.

[quote=mpham13]Both Shad's and Db's have strong points. No class is better then another class. Play a class that fits your style. And since your still on 3rd job, its hard to compare which job is more suited for your style. Enjoy both =D[/quote]

No i'm not playing either (hell i'm making a mechanic...i like robots f3) i just wanted to compare each class since i've heard a lot of people saying "POST BB DITS >>>>>>>>> DUAL BLADES" and it turns out nothings really changed. The Big bang didn't weaken Dual Blades it made them stronger.

and i'm not complaining i'm just a little depressed...i mean my entire style of thinking (on maple) just got tossed out the window T_T it turns out some classes are just naturally stronger than others

EDIT: wow i just noticed i wasted 3 weeks of my life...*tear*...