General

@iNathanDrake: *Shrug* That shouldn't have any implication on finding the answer to question. If one is sensitive, oh well.

[quote=bluebomber24]@iNathanDrake: I am annoying by provide info and stating valid points. Okay.[/quote]

Nope, its how you express yourself towards people. You're a bit of an ass, buddy.

Sairs are really quite the same besides slightly more portability and that Battleship Bomber.
BM's are almost completely different lol.

@iNathanDrake: I am annoying by provide info and stating valid points. Okay.

[quote=bluebomber24]

@above Learn what touchy means o.o[/quote]

It's meant to be used as an expression, very common actually. But would you rather I used annoying instead? You choice either way.

@KamiKazeDes Yes! That ship was so bad that I think its the reason I'm a bit hesitant about this new one. I'm just on the mindset of how the old one used to feel like. I guess we'll find out soon enough lol

@KamikazeDes: Heh, interesting. These double skills Nexon has introduces are generating quite a bit of oddities and questions.

@bluebomber24: Nah, nothing like that. But I recall reading that some people were talking about BSB acting like a summon for Phantoms, since it's weird to steal and all. It proc'd their Cards and critted, but it ignored DR. I'll try to find it.

[quote=KamikazeDes]
Ah. Concentrate's table on SP says " When attacking an enemy, increase your status resistance. When you resist a status effect, this skill will enter cooldown" so I didn't know about the effect waning. I know for a fact that the status resist won't reset or go on CD for a non-fatal status resist, though.
And about the Crewmen, yeah we can only resist a Fatal Status once every 120 seconds. I'm not sure how the 4th job skill works, but I doubt it. 3rd job crew says the same summoned Crewmen can't resist another status until they're resummoned, so the 4th job skill just lets us keep the buffs.

About the summoning thing, I was just curious because of Phantoms stealing our BSB skill. If I recall correctly, I read that when Phantoms steal BSB, it acts as a summon or is some other type of glitchy weirdness.[/quote]

What do u mean acts like a summon? You mean it ignores DR? I actually was thinking about that, since Corsairs have that bounce effect I am wasn't sure if distance could potentially play a factor in DR. Are you saying that Corsairs can get DRed but Phantoms can't?

@bluebomber24:
Ah. Concentrate's table on SP says " When attacking an enemy, increase your status resistance. When you resist a status effect, this skill will enter cooldown" so I didn't know about the effect waning. I know for a fact that the status resist won't reset or go on CD for a non-fatal status resist, though.
And about the Crewmen, yeah we can only resist a Fatal Status once every 120 seconds. I'm not sure how the 4th job skill works, but I doubt it. 3rd job crew says the same summoned Crewmen can't resist another status until they're resummoned, so the 4th job skill just lets us keep the buffs.

About the summoning thing, I was just curious because of Phantoms stealing our BSB skill. If I recall correctly, I read that when Phantoms steal BSB, it acts as a summon or is some other type of glitchy weirdness.

@KamikazeDes: Oh, well what I posted was directly from KMST patch notes. Also, BMs concentration isn't every 90seconds, its similar to how MMs damage reversing works. Based on a video I just watched, if the BM stops attacking the skill will start to show a shadow showing its going on cooldown. However, as soon as he attacks the shadow disappears. So as long as the BM attacks within 90seconds the skill stays up. But anyway, I will just add that to a question I can ask a KMS BM to figure out whats going on later for fatal and reg resist.

For Corsairs, so if ONE summon stops the Fatal you have to wait 120 seconds? Another Summon can't stop it? however that 15% chance thing can right?

Edit: In regards to Turret and DR. Turret is not a summon. As I stated previously in this thread I know JT's numbers are wrong, one of those reasons is because Turret is doing things it was assumed it couldn't or wasn't. I will list some things about Turret and why its probaly not a summon:

1) It crits. Summons don't crit
2) I saw it activate Mortal Blow/Posion/Drain/AFA in KMS[b]T[/b]
3) Max has indicated that it appears to activate Poison/Drain/Armor Piercing in KMS
4) It ignores Magnus' Blue Zone

Turret is technically an installation form of Shadow Partner and is therefore still attached to the player. Have no idea what that means for Phantoms.

[quote=bluebomber24]@KamikazeDes

Is it fatal status resist or just regular. I get confused on how these things work. when I read the extracts, the corsair skill descrips say Fatal Status Resist, but the tables just say status resist. I remember seeing this in KMST for BMs which I don't know if that got transfered over too:

[i]Concentration: When you successfully hit an enemy, increase your status effect resistance. When you successfully resist a fatal status effect, this skill will enter a cooldown. For non-fatal status effects, the increased status effect resistance will reset instead without entering a cooldown. Use rapid fire skills to increase your resistance quickly.[/i]

@janny1993 Its not a matter of where he agrees with me or not. I just don't see how he is concluding that DR equates to poor survival for a BM. Have I even insulted him in the slightest? No. I am stating my pov and he is stating his. If he simply says, well I don't agree, then thats clearly the end of it. Until then he is trying to convice me and I him. I swear, basilers.[/quote]
Corsairs can block a fatal status every 120 seconds, along with a passive 55% constant status resist.BM's can block a Fatal Status resist every 90 seconds, but get a 30 second CD when they block it and have a 20% passive status ignore. (I'm pretty sure Concentrate doesn't reset on regular status resists, just Fatals.) Too much math for me to determine which is more awesome, so I'll go ahead and say we all give the big fudge u to Seduce.

Also, completely unrelated, but seeing as how you guys are talking about Blaster and DR... does it proc DR? I thought it was treated like a summon when mounted.

@KamikazeDes

Is it fatal status resist or just regular. I get confused on how these things work. when I read the extracts, the corsair skill descrips say Fatal Status Resist, but the tables just say status resist. I remember seeing this in KMST for BMs which I don't know if that got transfered over too:

[i]Concentration: When you successfully hit an enemy, increase your status effect resistance. When you successfully resist a fatal status effect, this skill will enter a cooldown. For non-fatal status effects, the increased status effect resistance will reset instead without entering a cooldown. Use rapid fire skills to increase your resistance quickly.[/i]

@janny1993 Its not a matter of where he agrees with me or not. I just don't see how he is concluding that DR equates to poor survival for a BM. Have I even insulted him in the slightest? No. I am stating my pov and he is stating his. If he simply says, well I don't agree, then thats clearly the end of it. Until then he is trying to convice me and I him. I swear, basilers.

[quote=SombraManx]@bluebomber24: wow, you must live next to maplestory servers

I have mentioned lag around what? 3 times? and you still don't catch? do you even know what is it?

LOL not always bossing has to do with player skills, there are many factors..

How im assuming "players are mindless idiots" when I say they lag? or if they get called by their mom or w/e happens

me for example, I'm not in north america, when Im talking on skype, I usually lag well thanks god I don't play hayato/bm, and I'm acually a good bosser[/quote]

well seriously, just ignore him.
Nothing good comes out from arguing with him.

If he disagree with you, he will keep arguing until you agree with him.
Best to ignore people like that

I love you for having the same opinion of the ship. I swear, only Corsairs understand how crappy it was.
As for the choice, BMs beat Corsairs in sheer number (in mobbing and 1v1 apparently). Keep in mind that we have 100% crit and an additional 40% PDR for our main attacking skill, and an additional 40% PDR (and absolutely nutty range. Like, it's ridiculous) for our main mob. Plus, super high Status-Resist and possibly higher HP.

@SombraManx: And I am saying that why would a BM for fear of lag or etc summon turret? They wouldn't. For example in the Dimension Invade, a BM got to the last level so they should just Hurricane, stop and watch boss, hurricane, stop and watch boss, hurricane and repeat if they think they are going to die. The goal is to not only kill the boss but survive. You are implying that a BM is obligated to use Turret and is therefore dumb.

You are also implying that a random act has implications on survivals. No it doesn't, any random act such as lag can get ANY class killed. Remember, you are arguing that BMs have low survival on DR bosses aka they practically die every other DR cast. So what are you saying?, a person's mom is calling EVERY single time the boss is casting DR?

There is only two bosses where a BM may die without being stupid. At Hilla/Queen/Von Leon the time is pretty long; 2-3 seconds. At DPQ, they should appraoch with the intent to 100% finish and therefore probably shouldn't use Turret; unless they are stupid. That just leaves Empress and PB, thats it. So your saying that BMs have poor survival on DR bosses because on [b]two bosses that the majority of the population does not fight, that isn't easy to access, requires preparation, and gives outdated rewards[/b] the BM may die; even though the BM has the option to simply not summon the Turret at all. If that's your definition of poor survivalon DR, okay. I guess I could dig that, I mean after-all I think DrKs have poor survival on bosses; you never know when sunlight will bounce off a window and blind that DrK user.

@above Learn what touchy means o.o

[quote=SombraManx]@bluebomber24: wow, you must live next to maplestory servers

I have mentioned lag around what? 3 times? and you still don't catch? do you even know what is it?

LOL not always bossing has to do with player skills, there are many factors..

How im assuming "players are mindless idiots" when I say they lag? or if they get called by their mom or w/e happens

me for example, I'm not in north america, when Im talking on skype, I usually lag well thanks god I don't play hayato/bm, and I'm acually a good bosser[/quote]

Just ignore him, this guys been so touchy all night. Thanks for your input though, I appreciate it!

@bluebomber24: wow, you must live next to maplestory servers

I have mentioned lag around what? 3 times? and you still don't catch? do you even know what is it?

LOL not always bossing has to do with player skills, there are many factors..

How im assuming "players are mindless idiots" when I say they lag? or if they get called by their mom or w/e happens

me for example, I'm not in north america, when Im talking on skype, I usually lag well thanks god I don't play hayato/bm, and I'm acually a good bosser

How well a class survives really shouldn't be a factor. That doesn't even matter anymore. Fact is, if you die, it's likely from the person's inability to use a potion quick enough rather than having "too low hp/defence."

[quote=ChaosPumpkin]Corsairs currently has higher damage than bowmasters, just to clear confusion.
Post red,
Damage- it seems like bowmasters are in the lead. But not by alot like rujin said.
Mobility- they both are amazing having both vertical and horizontal mobility, id say bowmasters because of how useful the grapple hook is.
Mobbing - probably corsairs since their highest dps skill is a mobbing skill. And they have a huge range.
surviving- bowmasters since corsairs were never good at it.
party- bm sharp eye so good
Bowmasters has drain which is something sairs dont have.
And corsairs most likely wont get seduced because of high stat resist and crew.
Tbh like every1s saying go with what u like. They seem balanced to me.[/quote]

Thank you, i love both of them and i know ill end up playing both but ill probably only be able to get 1 godly weapon so i wanted advice on the classes before i picked which one i would get a better weapon for. As of now my BM has a really bad bow, and my sair has an okay gun. So naturally the Sair would do more dmg in my own experience. But this is what i was looking in an answer.

@SombraManx: Hilla gives a huge warning and time like Queen -_-.

As far are Hilla's dog, PB, Empress, if the player thinks they arn't skilled enough or will die due to DR why the hell would they summon turret to begin with? Your assuming that players are mindless idiots that after spending time in a pq to get to a dog they would risk failing because they suck at readjusting turret.

Again, DR has nothing to do with survival, unless the player is unskilled and dumb.

@bluebomber24: bossing is fun... some will do pb, hilla, empress, cpb, hilla's dog.. and the list goes on.. some will die..

I can tell because back then, before hypers, I had to "take out" dark meta on my ds before the boss casted DR

which in theory should takes literally less than a second... but sometimes I kinda lagged and died because of meta..

@SombraManx: .....No, not really. The readjust literally takes [b]under a second[/b]. Also, the only DR boss that even drops a good reward in this era is Chaos Queen, and she gives tons of time for a player to readjust.

@bluebomber24: maybe to you... but the average bow master won't be fast enough

maybe because of bad timming, maybe because of lag....

[quote=bluebomber24]DR makes no sense. A BM can easily re-aim turret before DR goes up. I also don't see what DR has to do with overall survivability

@iNathanDrake

Okay, let me put it in simpler terms. Its hard to tell who is stronger realistically.[/quote]

Thank you lol! to you and the guy you quoted. I want answers like that xD I'm not worried about survivability and my gear is all common %dex stuff for them so i am set with that. I'm just debating on which i wanna choose to fund more interms of weapons.

[quote=SombraManx]bm may do more D%PS but sair has a higher weapon multiplier do dmg its debatable too....

survivability goes to sair if the boss does DR, if not, BM...

attack speed? well, sairs won't use rapid fire as their 1v1 anymore so.. bm...

mobility bm hands down[/quote]

DR makes no sense. A BM can easily re-aim turret before DR goes up. I also don't see what DR has to do with overall survivability

@iNathanDrake

Okay, let me put it in simpler terms. Its hard to tell who is stronger realistically.

Well since nobody can pick but you, i'll tell you what you can do. Instead of buying for a specific class, which you can do later. Buy % dex items such as rings, and earrings. So whichever you pick, you'll be set

[quote=bluebomber24]@iNathanDrake: You have a very odd way of writing then.

As for wheter a BM or Corsair has higher DPM. IDK and I personally don't see why that should be the reason you are picking your class. What I do know, if you are basing things purely off of charts, is that the BM numbers are wrong, because I am a BM and so I am looking at that stuff. I know Corsair numbers in charts change every now and again simply because of RNG. Then theres realistic factors, that you have to take into consideration with looking at DPM.

The difference in damage between the two is not significant enough where it should matter. The classes are not Zero where they have double the output of other classes.[/quote]

Oh no, I'm not using the DPS as a reason to pick a class. People have mentioned things about it and I'm just better educating myself on it is all. Nor am I trying to base it off the charts either. I'm asking a simple question because I read that Sairs were but alot of people are saying that BM's are higher so I'm honestly just asking a simple question. The difference in damage doesn't matter but I did ask it because like I said I wanna get a better understanding. I am aware that these classes are not Zero where its double the output. I'm asking questions is all, that's why I made this thread. If I had my own answers, I wouldn't ask the community. But thank you for your opinion I guess..

[quote=Ziub]Damage, mobility and attack speed? They all pretty much go to Bms but mobbing is debatable.[/quote]

bm may do more D%PS but sair has a higher weapon multiplier do dmg its debatable too....

survivability goes to sair if the boss does DR, if not, BM...

attack speed? well, sairs won't use rapid fire as their 1v1 anymore so.. bm...

mobility bm hands down

Oh, well to be honest the battleship is what has me a bit hesistant of the class. I love my sair as is now and play it more than my BM. I but thats about the 3rd person to say that BM has higher dmg than a sair? I honestly always felt that the Sair was stronger when i played the two.

Also, is there an update pending for the phantom class? o.O someone mentioned it earlier and I don't know anything about it xD Details please!

@iNathanDrake: You have a very odd way of writing then.

As for wheter a BM or Corsair has higher DPM. IDK and I personally don't see why that should be the reason you are picking your class. What I do know, if you are basing things purely off of charts, is that the BM numbers are wrong, because I am a BM and so I am looking at that stuff. I know Corsair numbers in charts change every now and again simply because of RNG. Then theres realistic factors, that you have to take into consideration with looking at DPM.

The difference in damage between the two is not significant enough where it should matter. The classes are not Zero where they have double the output of other classes.

[quote=bluebomber24]Just reading your thread says you are leaning BM. So fall already.[/quote]

Not leaning towards anything, normally i would have said nearly nothing about both. I'm just expressing my personal concern about the battleship is all. Sorry if it came out sounding misleading.

And really? Damage goes to BM? I thought Sairs were the higher dps explorer? Or am I mistaken?

[quote=093097]Also, do you mean marskman or actually BM[/quote]
He did say Bowmaster in the Title AND in his post o.o

Damage, mobility and attack speed? They all pretty much go to Bms but mobbing is debatable.

Didn't quote but to the guy who said go with BM, your sairs are special. Thats what i'm trying to avoid. I just wanted to get peoples honest opinion on the differences and pros and cons. And did you say phantoms will be one of the best classes in the game? Or were you referring to the BM or Sair class?

Also I think the explorers get more respect because while all these newer classes come out so OP and everyone wants to play one, my self somewhat included, im a huge fan of thieves so i quit maple regularly and come back when a new thief is released lol. But the explorer classes have had it hard since the beginning imo, so for the ones who can play them and not get discouraged by all the new OP classes, its pretty respectable lol.

But based on what you guys know from RED can someone give me a pros and cons in terms of dmg and mobbing and mobility and attack speed between the classes?
Thanks in advance!

Just reading your thread says you are leaning BM. So fall already.

Isn't it weird how everyone gives respect to explorers.
Its probably cuz the people who play them aren't bandwagoners.
OT: I prefer BM

I haven't update this in a while. After 200 I quit my phantom last year lol. My phantom is okay, but they nerfed so bad its annoying to play now. And I would want the actual class lol not just 4 skills. Nerfed skills at that thats horrible lol. In terms of dmg, who wins? A funded sair or a funded BM Post RED. I saw like 2 or 3 people say that BM's are stronger? Also I mean BM not MM to clarify! Thanks!

and ull be one of the strongest classes in the game after RED

Well now we aren't gonna be completely glued to a ship. we got ELE still. But I think the new battleship will be pretty cool though

Personally I like both since there both explorers but IMO bowmaster is a bit stronger. Both are fun.

BM obviously, although Corsairs wouldn't be a bad choice either. It's all about preference.