Justice Patch - Stop it with the Db Comparison
Dear Shadowers,
This past week I keep hearing comments that say:
[quote=noobstereotype] After Justice Shads all look like DB's.
Nexon is making Shads DB's
Shadowers are DB's 2.0
[/quote]
It's time to stop. We do NOT copy DBs, not now and definitely not after Justice.
Do you get your looks from your ancestors or do your ancestors get it from you?
We don't use Daggers because the DB's do. The DB's use Daggers because WE do. Have some self-respect for your class, darn it.
Do DrK's say that they look like Arans simply because they also wear Polearms? *SPOILER ALERT: They don't*
The only, and I repeat ONLY Skill that we can say we "copied" is Sudden Raid, which is a standard Ultimate Skill, which by the way we probably won't even max, and if we do max it then we won't max it until Level 200.
Nightlords also got this Ultimate though, do NL's say that they look like DB's now? *SPOILER ALERT: They don't*
If anything say that we look more like Nightlords, we got their Shadow Partner and Flash Jump in Big Bang.
Now if you say that it's because of Carnival Edge and how many hits it does, shall I remind you that every mutiple-hit Skill from DB's can also be looked as a copy from our Savage Blow? It's NOT the other way around.
Let's look at our signature Skills shall we?
[*]Savage Blow: Copy from DB? DERP, we've had that Skill since the conception of Bandits.
[*]Meso Guard: One of the most unique Skill in the game. Way better than Magic Guard and with a much better animation. Making us able to tank when DB's can't.
[*]PP+ME+Greed: A completely unique set of Skills.
[*]Carnival Edge: An improvement on Savage Blow. Used for a great coin production in Pickpocket. Not a DB Skill but an improvement on our Savage Blow.
[*]Boomerang Step: i-frames. 'nuff said. Dual Blade doesn't have this.
[*]Assassinate: Before Justice, a charging Skill that DB doesn't have. Post-Justice it has an unique system with its killing points that could reflect more like Heroes than to a DB ever.
[*]Shadow Shifter: DB's wish they had this. After their revamp they got some dodge, which they COPIED from us. Not the other way around.
[*]Smokescreen: First "god-mode" skill that came out, IIRC. BaM's got one too but they came much later. DB's don't have this.
[*]Shadow Instinct: With the killing points it creates a system that reflects Heroes' combo and not any DB Skill.
So remind me again, what makes us look like DB? Wearing Daggers? Lol.
23 Comments • Newest first
@shanlan: Linking from southperry's animation doesn't let other people see it. It's part of Southperry's protection thingy (or might be a bug).
@j0s3a4d: It's like saying "Stop ksing." There should be no one doing it in the first place and the fact that it needs to be said just reflects upon the nature of the community.
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. [b]Hadouken![/b]
OT: Bandits are cool.
@ZeroStorm0: It happens, I am pretty sexy.
@Unanymouse: Chocolate milk please! Regular milk makes my tummy sick
@PhoenixShots:
First Job:
We didn't get Flash Jump because the DB's had Flash Jump, we got Flash Jump because EVERY other Thief had Flash Jump, even Dawn Warrior has a Flash Jump-ish Skill. By that logic as I said before we are looking like more like Night Lords and not more like Dual Blades. Also First job is pretty generic you could say that every First Job looks alike.
Second Job:
Every Job has Physical Training, does not count.
We both got it at the same time and is pretty much a copy of Rage. Us getting Karma make us nothing like Dual Blade because it has nothing to do with the way we train.
I already explained about Flash Jump, and we got it on Big Bang not now.
We haven't just gotten Savage Blow, therefore even saying that we are looking more like Dual Blades because of Savage blow is absurd.
"Steal(which became a mob move, making it macroscopically similar to a 2nd job thief mob skill, but has a different kind of gimmick to it vs dbs slash storm)".
Really? Saying "macroscopically similar" doesn't mean you can lump any mob skill together. By this logic I/L's lightning is macroscopically like Steal as well since they are both 2nd job mob skills. Oh wait that doesn't make any sense.
Bandits get Meso Guard and Shield Mastery, which are both completely different from Flashbang. Nothing similar at all.
3rd Job:
So every class that obtains a Rush Skill is now suddenly like Dual Blades. Brb telling warriors, mercedes, Demon Slayers, Mechanics, etc.
My point is not the view of the general public, but the view of Shadowers themselves.
Shadow Partner was a DIRECT copy of Hermit's Shadow Partner not DB's mirror image and we got it on BB. Get your facts right. Again we got Shadow Partner from Hermits so saying that because of that it looks more like DB's is nonsensical. Buffing every Skill would have not been enough because again Shadow Partner was to super buff Meso Explosion and Pickpocket (which is the whole point of CB's and Shadowers since Big Bang and even more after Justice). Edge Carnival is a buff on Savage Blow for again MESO EXPLOSION, which DBs not have so it's an entirely different purpose. Therefore even "macroscopically" it totally different because the usage is different. Also the reason why is the same number is because 15 is the cap of hits in a Skill it has nothing to do with DB "setting the cap". Saying that what separates the two is the Shadowers emphasis on Meso Based SKills is like saying that what differences the Shadowers is the BASIS OF SHADOWERS. This would be like saying, what differences Heroes and Paladins are the Paladins focus on Tanking, well no frack really? That's their specialty, duh.
My argument is that Justice does NOT make Shadowers follow more of a DB Path, or look more like DB's. Shadowers simply improved what they are about anyway.
Carnival Edge - Buff to Savage Blow for...MESO EXPLOSION.
Greed on Third Job - Buff for MESO EXPLOSION.
Muspelehim - Rush to better control MESO EXPLOSION.
New Assassinate - OP and completely unique.
Shadower Instinct - Buff that looks more like Heroe's combo.
@ZeroStorm0: Pretty much, yeah. They have general THIEF similarities, same as with Nightlords with the exception we both wear Daggers.
@shanlan: Same for Demon Slayer then? -.-
@MrTouchnGo: How does it make you sad? I don't get it.
Anyway, I like the focus on Meso Explosion. Also if you read my Guide is pretty obvious that I suggest going to Monster Park at all Levels. Granted after Phantom patch comes then Monster Park gets funky because there is a gap between Level 100-130 but at 110 you have LHC so it's still good. Also for places where mobs die from 2-3 hits then the spawn needs to be good enough for whenever you killed mobs using your regular attacks (Muspelheim/Steal/Carnival Edge) then you can use the coins from those mobs to 1HKO with Meso Explosion the next batch of Mobs, get it? It still helps training. Although I do believe in a Monster Revamp, like seriously is no fun to 1-2HKO mobs your Level. It should be at least 5-6 HKO for an average funded player to kill a mob at that Level.
The very fact that this thread exists saddens me.
Also, the meso-explosion based third job is completely stupid. If it were pre-bb where everyone took 50 hits to kill a single Typhon, it would make sense to chain attacks for a stronger combo. However, today, most people train at places where things can be killed in 3 hits or less, meaning by the time you set up the mesos and rush the monsters into an appropriate spot, they're already kinda too dead to explode.
What Nexon needs to do is halve everyone's damage ranges and double the HP of every monster in existence, because this game is too damn broken.
[quote=PhoenixShots]....[b] Macroscopic [/b] ...macroscopic...macroscopic...macroscopic....macroscopically...macroscopically...macroscopic...macroscopic...[/quote]
I.e. "macroscopically speaking, shads are now db ripoffs"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
I think we can all agree on one central idea.
They're similar, yes, but you can't say Shads are DB clones/copies/mimics/wannabe-ers when Shads came first.
@j0s3a4d
I think I'm in love with you.
@BlizzardNick: I can be okay with saying that. My problem is when people say that our Skills are a version of their Skills which doesn't make any sense.
@rabbithole: Exactly. If people are going to be saying that every class with flashy animation is a DB copy then dam people every class Post-BB is a DB Copy -.-
The one before you. You ninja'ed me.
Even though db's set the standard for flashiness, it's 2012. Time to break out of the Beta animations.
^ you can say Bloody storm and slash storm are really slow mobbing versions of assaulter o.o since they both move you through a monster generally safely
@rabbithole: Were you referring to me or the guy that posted before me? -confuzzled-
@PhoenixShots: Mmm, kind of hard to say before 4th Job non-meso related Skills because Third Job is pretty much ALL about Meso Explosion and 1st and 2nd Job are generic but let's see.
First Job is pretty generic but let's see:
Attacks for Bandits: Double Stab or L7 (Sin-dit). Both are 1vs1
Attacks for Dual Blades: Sharp Slash and Tornado Spin. Both are mob Skills.
Nothing to resemble here.
Second Job:
Attacks for Bandits: Savage Blow and Steal.
Dual Blades get Fatal Blow which is obviously a Savage Blow copy not the other way around since Savage Blow has been in our Skill set for years before Dual Blades ever came.
Dual Blades get Slash Storm which moves them around. Steal does not such thing. Also Steal has an unique feature of stealing items that Slash Storm does not possess.
Dual Blades also get Flying Assaulter, which requires to jump and then attack. We do not have such requirement in any of our Skills. Also "Assaulter", I wonder where they got that from. -.-
Dual Blades get Flash Bang to blind monsters. We do not have any similar Skill.
Dual Blades get Upper Stab. This mob Skill makes monsters fly up. We do not have any Skill that does that.
Also don't Dual Blades usually rush and then send monsters flying up. We do not do anything like that at any Level.
Third Job:
Dual Blades have Shadow Evasion which is obviosuly a copy of our Shadow Shifter and Archer's Dodge.
Advanced Dark Sight. Our only Skill that benefits from Dark Sight is Assassinate and it has been like that WAY before Dual Blades came.
Vital Steal. We don't have any HP stealing Skills.
Bloody Storm. Which one of our Skills has ever looked like this? None.
Chains of Hell. Again what of our Skills resemble this at all? None.
So again, please tell me how are we Shadowers looking more and more like DB's? Because I don't see it.
^ You totally flew past his point...
The logic is strong in this one.
@andynaguyen: I agree with Sudden Raid. Carnival Edge although not "original" is clearly meant to be a better version of Savage Blow, which fits to my theory of Nexon's development team trying to make Meso Explosion the definite trademark of Chief Bandits instead of just Shadowers.
@BandiitKill: My whole point is that they are NOT making us look like Dual Blades. You can't say that your parents get your looks from you when is obviously that you get your looks from your parents. They are not making us look like Dual Blades. Dual Blades were originally created with similarities to us (and Hermits with Shadow Partner and Flash Jump).
I feel as if Nexon didnt put enough effort into Sudden Raid and CE, but everything else is pretty original-ish (for MS).
@CCRunner:
[*] FJ was copied from Hermits, not from DB's.
[*] Shad's movements don't reflect Dual Blades, they reflect any fast class, and oh guess what NL's and Shadowers are the original fast classes. Not Dual Blades.
[*] Muspelheim rushes, but our fighting style does not resemble DB fighting style. Our fighting style is not to RUSH RUSH RUSH like DB. It's to Rush only to better control Meso Explosion. Does Meso Explosion resemble any DB Skill? Didn't think so.
[*] All animations nowadays are much more flashy and larger. So is every class a copy of DB even though DB is a much newer class? It's called having newer animations because you know, graphics improve over time? OMG technology.
[*] Savage blow does not make my character dash out an come back.
[*] What are you talking about with Shadow Partner? "SP causes the actual number dealt by shads to even resemble those done by DBs." That makes no sense.
[*] No, that trend was begun by Bandits with Savage Blow. Then DB's came with more hits, and then we came with even more hits (Meso Explosion). DB's did not start such trend.
@BandiitKill: I am not complaining about turning into DB's. I am complaining about people that keep saying we do. It really gets annoying when in every thread about Justice there are people saying that we are "DB copies".
@Laguniroth: Huh? What are you pissed off mate? Did Patrick touched you again?
[quote=j0s3a4d]@ksidirt: Shouldn't you be out getting drunk? :O[/quote]
im already drunk. and i agree with you. but im still pissed off from earlier.
@Wagner: I got to work late night tomorrow though so if I sleep early today I'll be sleepy at work tomorrow :x
@likeialwaysdo: I knooow, and it bothers me so much. If anything then, Dragon Knights had the original ultimate Skill, Dragon Roar, which was copied to 4th Job Mages. Every 4th Job mage is a copy from DK then lol. And Dual Blades are a copy of Mages.
NEWS: DUAL BLADES ARE MAGES 2.0 AND WARRIORS 3.0! :O
u needa rest more @jos3a4d.... and besides, laugh at the petty db revamp. *stares at the default look on the new dbs o_o*
@ksidirt: Auch! I skipped work today. Is spring break I need to rest some more
@j0s3a4d, I'm stuck at work for another 4 hours unfortunately.
I am glad [b]you[/b] posted this as opposed to someone who might not know what they're talking about.
@ksidirt: Shouldn't you be out getting drunk? :O
inb4 anyone.