General

[quote=itoldyounoob]@Nfeeble:
If each person in a 4-6 man party is funded to around 500-700k range then yes they can take each CRA (minus Cvel) boss. The problem is CRA bosses go up per person added into the party. A 6 man party has substantially more HP to deal with than a 2 man party. That being said, it still is possible but the suggested range would be what I mentioned.
What i'm targeting is when you said "raw no improved gear other than equipment you can find." You can't reach such a range even with clean top tier equips. It's unfortunate but reasonable funds is still considerbly expensive. An unfunded person would probably do around 50-100x less damage than a funded person which is why it's so tough to just any class without considering damage.
As an example, a phantom with basic equips might reach 100k range buffed, but that would hit around 130k-250k with milles. Mean while, a 100k Demon avenger can hit 1mils with his execution.
For unfunded, it makes a difference in choosing your class.

Being a beta tester, I know where youre coming from, but this games far different from before. Zakum was possible back then with many expedition partys entering. Now, boss partys are limited to 6 people, and these new bosses aren't as simple. There's an implied range requirement for the Chaos versions, and they aren't easy to reach. It's not completely P2W in the sense that there are opportunities to grow now, but it's still very difficult and very time consuming.[/quote]

Why does it matter whether you're hitting 130-150k or 1m with clean equips? They still can't kill the meaningful bosses.

@Nfeeble:
If each person in a 4-6 man party is funded to around 500-700k range then yes they can take each CRA (minus Cvel) boss. The problem is CRA bosses go up per person added into the party. A 6 man party has substantially more HP to deal with than a 2 man party. That being said, it still is possible but the suggested range would be what I mentioned.
What i'm targeting is when you said "raw no improved gear other than equipment you can find." You can't reach such a range even with clean top tier equips. It's unfortunate but reasonable funds is still considerbly expensive. An unfunded person would probably do around 50-100x less damage than a funded person which is why it's so tough to just any class without considering damage.
As an example, a phantom with basic equips might reach 100k range buffed, but that would hit around 130k-250k with milles. Mean while, a 100k Demon avenger can hit 1mils with his execution.
For unfunded, it makes a difference in choosing your class.

Being a beta tester, I know where youre coming from, but this games far different from before. Zakum was possible back then with many expedition partys entering. Now, boss partys are limited to 6 people, and these new bosses aren't as simple. There's an implied range requirement for the Chaos versions, and they aren't easy to reach. It's not completely P2W in the sense that there are opportunities to grow now, but it's still very difficult and very time consuming.

[quote=jsutiv]I enjoy good mobbing, good mobility. Decent animation/flashy skills are a plus also. Do not like to be bottom of the barrel, but average/little above is good. Doesn't have to be the top dog or anything.[/quote]

Since this is basically what most people want and this game is so easy now, the question you should actually ask is specifically "which classes should I avoid?". Most of the classes in the game meet these requirements and the game is overall very easy, especially if all you're looking for are these typical standards.

If anything, odds are you actually misjudged what you really want and you'll find that out as you play any class.

[quote=Nfeeble]Okay, I understand. I've never had any experiences with that because I haven't reached those levels. However, you said "You literally cannot finish any Chaos RA bosses without hitting a minimum of 25-30m per line". I'm assuming by "you" you're referring to ONE person, right? And if that's the case, you still don't need damage. Wouldn't a party of 4-6 be able to handle it? If they're unfunded I'd assume they do roughly 4-6x LESS damage than one funded player, right? And my understanding is that all of these bosses you mentioned require parties to enter in the first place, right? (Hence everyone else sitting there non-buffed being a group of cheerleaders while you solo.) I'm not trying to argue, just trying to figure out how much damage/funds one can consider practical at end-game, ego aside. The ability to solo is prestige and awesome, but not necessary. All of that said, though, if a large party isn't capable with reasonable funds then I digress and admit defeat. Lol

Edit: Sorry, jsutiv. No disrespect intended to you or anyone else. I'm kind of on the same page as you as I'm returning for the first time since pre-bb. Didn't mean to hijack the thread or give a bad impression.[/quote]

35/4 is still some 7m per line, which is somewhere in the ballpark of above 600k range.

Sorry guys I was just looking for a fun decent class to put a little fund in. But this thread just turned in to a fund unfund war. Let me tell you what I would like out of a class then maybe you can help me more. I enjoy good mobbing, good mobility. Decent animation/flashy skills are a plus also. Do not like to be bottom of the barrel, but average/little above is good. Doesn't have to be the top dog or anything.

@Nfeeble: true lol.

@Nfeeble:
The problem with maplestory is you do need damage.
You literally cannot finish any Chaos RA bosses without hitting a minimum of 25-30m per line. They're time limited between 10-20mins for each boss and the hp is in the billions for each boss.

" I'm pretty certain that a large party of completely raw (no improved gear other than equipment you can find from mobs) classes can manage a boss run fine" < this is the one line that I'll have to disagree with.

Up until 180 there is no reason for damage. It's simply grinding and easy bosses. The gap between end-game bosses and low-mid tier bosses is crazy. Chaos Zak you can kill with 250k range. Chaos Queen (Argueably the easiest out of the 4 CRA bosses) requires atleast 1m range minimum (class dependent as well.) That's really why people care so much. The profitting bosses are CRA, Hard magnus, Hell Gollux, but to kill them you have to be nearly capping or capping.

@Nfeeble
It's true every class has the ability to be end game material but some classes can use 35b and reach nearly capping while others can barely hit 2m with 35b.
That's where the "damage comparison" comes I guess. I agree with your point though. I would never choose a class just solely on their damage. I've stuck to my pally post nerf just because I just love the way it plays. Xenons as well have always been a fun class for me as well which is why I've decided to refund it.

Zero is also a GREAT class for starting out because they can do insane damage with absolutely no items at all!

make a ds, with your funding you can go places

[quote=Nfeeble]I've never understood why people base their class decision on damage/funds. Unless I'm completely living under a rock, every single class in Maple is viable end-game with moderate funds. Some are better than others, of course, but still.[/quote]

It's fun to be strong lol.

^This but if you're into funding Db would be the hardest by far