General

[quote=KHAlNlWest]Bin Laden wanted to overthrow the Saudi monarchy (and now other Middle East governments) and establish an "Islamic state" according to Shari'a law (Islamic Hole Law), to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs [Muslim religious leaders who once governed the Ottoman Empire]." We might add that his vision calls for an extremely strict version of Islam, but perhaps not as strict as the version being implemented in some Middle Eastern governments today.[/quote]

Holy*
Last I checked the Prophet Muhammad PBUH was the symbol of Islam.
If any Muslim wanted to try and understand Islam better they would learn from him.

Osama is the most famous symbol of terrorism. Not the only one.

[quote=MarxMaster]lol @ people saying that Osama doesn't deserve a proper burial.

After doing even more research, according to Islam (i'mma paraphrase here so don't take what I say word for word)... Everybody should have a burial (though normally buried in the Earth to be returned to the Earth), [b]to be judged before God[/b]. Looks like Islam believes that the life of a person should not be judged until the very end by God, even if that person is looked at as the most hated person in the world.

Distorting religion to kill people doesn't change anything. To go against this is basically sticking a giant middle finger to the very countries that you're already not on very good grounds with.[/quote]

Actually in accordance to Islam, this man deserved capital punishment for his many crimes and murders.

[quote=13Rams]Since psn went down they actually gave a damn to go kill him (:[/quote]

I haven't played COD in so long, when i start again i'm probably gonna suck D:
[quote=squaids]They buried Osama Bin Laden out to sea right after Japan released radioactive water into the ocean. This has the makings of an awesome monster movie.[/quote]

Lol'd hard

[quote=squaids]They buried Osama Bin Laden out to sea right after Japan released radioactive water into the ocean. This has the makings of an awesome monster movie.[/quote]
WIN! That would be the most awesome movie evaa

Since psn went down they actually gave a damn to go kill him (:

Just for the curious minds on how these whole extremists groups came about.
Excuse me of not have a good memory with names.
The main guy who started the whole "Jihad = killing non believers" was once a prisoner, not in any prison, but in one of the most inhumane prisons. He was imprisoned in Egypt, in one of the special prisons where they treat dirt better than they treat humans. They were known for very extreme ways of torture, including *ape and electrocuting people through sensitive areas in the body (nipples and genitalia). If you think you can come out with your right mind from such torture, then think again.

[quote=redpitbull01]
Did you know that Afghanistan has trillions of dollars of KNOWN oil, natural gas, minerals and precious metals like the highly valued Uranium?
Over the many decades people have been trying to take over Afghanistan for it's location in the middle east and it's natural resources.
No one has ever properly tapped the resources of Afghanistan. There is metaphorically a gold mine under Afghanistan.

They don't produce any as of currently, but there is GREAT potential for extraction of natural resources.[/quote]

I want solid evidence of the supposed trillions of dollars worth of oil specifically. And I want to know how hard it is to tap, the quality of it, whether a trillion dollars spent on an invasion and fighting and then another trillion spent over building up the country to exploit it would be worth it. Unless Afghanistan has as much oil as Saudi Arabia, and as much uranium ore as Canada itself, then you might have a point. But seeing as it has as much oil as the US state of Alaska (or even less) from the sources I read. Not to mention the fact that Chinese companies are currently the ones chosen to exploit the mineral fields.

Sorry but this specific invasion is not about resources, your simplistic argument to the contrary is invalid.

[quote=Azith]You mean why THEY went to war with us. You seem to forget that we were the ones attacked first.

Frankly, who cares? There are certain people in this world who will not hesitate to kill you or me, who would actively work toward destroying our entire families and have no problem torturing us, just because of who we are, how we live, or where we happen to live. They do this fully aware, with a cold and calculating method. To me, such a person deserves less respect than a roach, and ceases to be a "person". The fact that this man can no longer direct attacks or do his murderous work is cause for celebration.[/quote]

I don't understand why people have to have a debate against why Americans would *not* celebrate. Sure you can say your opinion and whether you liked it or not but the truth is: what this basiler says is basically the rationale behind celebrating the death of OBL. In other words, you can't say "Oh it's cruel to rejoice at the death of any person" or "People who think like this are disgusting maggots" because obviously in this case there is clear motive. I suppose though you could say "I believe it is cruel for people to rejoice at the death of any person." or "I abhor the fact that people think like this" There is a difference between the quoted phrases above basically saying the same thing, but in a different tone or manner. Saying it the first way is quite ambiguous, but I suppose it doesn't matter on basil now does it... It's alright to state opinions no matter how demented or twisted. You could say "I think Americans are cruel, insidious pieces of pig crap." However, saying this is not appropriate at all: "Americans are cruel, insidious pieces of pig crap." Notice a difference? That's all I can help you with. If you don't get what I'm trying to say...I'm sorry but I can't help you anymore than you can help yourself.

[quote=NightWalker]Did u forget America invaded their country for oil/petrolium. And believe me Americans have killed alot of innocent people too in the war against Bin Laden.[/quote]

This is a incredibly naive statement. It is also demonstrably false.

If you wish to discuss our questionable Middle East policy that is indeed influenced by oil, fine. But those 2 wars were not motivated by the desire to strip those countries of their oil.

If that was the case, then please explain how Iraqs oil was actually auctioned off, by the Iraqis. It was sold to 42 countries in 2009 in an auction that US companies were actually shut out from.

The Iraqis auctioning off their own resources on the free market is hardly the behavior of someone who has had their resources stolen by invaders.

Please, next time you wish to spew forth anti-American rhetoric, at least get your facts straight. If the US wanted their oil, we would have their oil. The fact that we are focusing our blood and treasure in building up their society and infrastructure and walking away with no oil in return if proof enough of the absurdity of your comment.

[quote=upermelvin]Why does every1 believe whats bein said on tv? Jesus christ think 4 ur selffffffffffffffffff...
You can only rlly believe something if you have seen it with ur very own eyes....
and @ the guy hwo said I should've done my research Please go do your research, why should I do research about something that is not even worth researching cuz yo
fools always believe whats bein said on the internet/tv *facepalm*[/quote]
you sound like you are his brother lol.

Why does every1 believe whats bein said on tv? Jesus christ think 4 ur selffffffffffffffffff...
You can only rlly believe something if you have seen it with ur very own eyes....
and @ the guy hwo said I should've done my research Please go do your research, why should I do research about something that is not even worth researching cuz yo fools always believe whats bein said on the internet/tv *facepalm*

[quote=NightWalker]Did u forget America invaded their country for oil/petrolium. And believe me Americans have killed alot of innocent people too in the war against Bin Laden.[/quote]

So, since you seem to be an expert in oil deposits, how much oil does Afghanistan have? Did you forget that the US was attacked on 9/11? Did you forget that the Taliban harbored Bin Laden as a guest in Afghanistan and refused to release him to the US, which was the true reason behind the invasion?

[quote=fanboy]i understand that osama was a terrible person, but the only thing i dont like is that everyone is celebrating a death of a human being
i know he did lots of bad things but having parties over his death seems cruel[/quote]Well, he probably would have organized more terrorist attacks if we had let him live... so think of it this way. At the expense of his *worthless* life, we saved plenty of innocent lives. So celebrate those people who were saved by this.

[quote=OnyxApple]Most of the bad guys never knew him. Plus, they have no planes, so what can they do?

This raises the question as to why we went to war with someone that can't fight us head on.[/quote]

You mean why THEY went to war with us. You seem to forget that we were the ones attacked first.

[quote=fanboy]i understand that osama was a terrible person, but the only thing i dont like is that everyone is celebrating a death of a human being
i know he did lots of bad things but having parties over his death seems cruel[/quote]

Frankly, who cares? There are certain people in this world who will not hesitate to kill you or me, who would actively work toward destroying our entire families and have no problem torturing us, just because of who we are, how we live, or where we happen to live. They do this fully aware, with a cold and calculating method. To me, such a person deserves less respect than a roach, and ceases to be a "person". The fact that this man can no longer direct attacks or do his murderous work is cause for celebration.

[quote=chewkup]@MarxMaster: you joking me? why the F would i care about muslim law in america. We went in to sack that piece of crap ladin. We can hang his head on a pole for all we care. They started war with us first bombing the tower and u want us to play fair and have respect for their religion? PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/quote]Yeah that's what being the bigger person is all about. Unless of course you want to be equal to a terrorist...

NAVY SEALS! just 302 NS exist!

[quote=NightWalker]GL America, a lot of you are gonna die now and you know it.[/quote]

If anyone should be worried, it's the extremist groups, not us. We just took a helicopter load of workable intelligence from Bin Laden's nice cozy crib. You know, stuff like financial connections, addresses, a list of who's who of people who helped hide Bin Laden and relay his messages. Expect all the people close to Bin Laden and in contact with him to panic and flee like rats, trying to run from their safe houses before our special forces come knocking on their doors.

They had all the time in the world to attack us, so what makes now different, now that Bin Laden is dead?

[quote=OnyxApple]however, your central argument that america is a raging country isn't really valid, seeing as we got intel on osamas possible location quite awhile ago. The reason we didn't use it right away? So we could gather forces and not hurt any civilians.[/quote]Hey easy now, I'm not hateful towards America ^_^, I just think that certain matter could have been dealt with differently. But that's easy to say as someone who's standing on the sideline. I'm glad I'm not in a position where I have to take decisions about stuff like this, cause you're gonna make mistakes sooner or later.

My responses may have seemed like I'm anti USA, but I merely reacted on certain strange arguments that were used and I was against the overdone celebrations from yesterday (that looked like protests you are used to see against the USA instead of the other way around). Death is never a thing to celebrate.

And yes I think it paid off that the action was prepared so well and that they did not act too hasty. Of course it was also important that no US troops got hurt and that there would be proof of Osama's death (otherwise they could've precision bombed it).

@PukeADot: Brilliant quote, that pretty much summed up my feelings but in way less lines of text xD.

@KHAlNlWest: Valid points. Pakistan was definitely not a trustworthy partner. I still think the action has a bit of a "nana-nanana I got you" factor. Like...yeah a child that finally get's what he wants.

You guys are going to get it rough...

seeing as our own president confirmed it and gave multiple speeches about it........

[quote=KHAlNlWest]You killed in a symbol in a country that has been untouchable in nearly 4 different instances. He attacked us, confident he'd simply walk away, like the few times in the 90's, truth be told, we killed the only man who was able to get away with it for this amount of time.We got knocked in the chin, and the kid hid in a playground, mocking us. Then we got a paint ball gun, jumped in, shot the kid multiple times in the tunnel.[/quote]Isn't it sad it took 10years of war since 9/11 to find this guy (and even longer if you count from the other attacks). I'm sure there were alternative options besides invading countries. So basically you say Americans are celebrating this event like I saw yesterday, because America got revenge on someone who outsmarted them for decades? To speak with your analogy: it's like the bigger/smarter bully that kept pestering the weak/goofy kid and when they meet at a reunion 10years later, the silly kid had thought out this "masterplan", stabbed the bully in the back with a knife and yelled "haha got you now bish, bet you didn't see that one coming". Real classy -_-.

@freejuspower: Please use paragraphs if you're gonna write a lot of text. Makes readability a lot better. Also I don't like the fact you put words in my mouth...you don't have to answer any questions for me if I didn't ask them, ok?

[quote=freejuspower]I don't quite understand your statement. Why would someone celebrate the disasters in Haiti, Japan, Christchurch, situation in the middle east...? There's nothing good to celebrate. You don't celebrate massive destruction.[/quote]You got my statement wrong. It was a reply to someone who said that celebrating the death of Osama the way it was celebrated yesterday was ok, because of a number of disasters that struck the USA in the past. Like: after this and that, finally there IS something to cheer for and be happy about.

[quote=freejuspower]That said, Osama's death is seen as a good thing by many. And logically, would you celebrate something that's good? I'll answer that for you: YES. Now I don't have to tell you why his death is good? You can just read all 46 pages of this thread.[/quote]You skip from "Osama's death is seen as good by many", to "would you celebrate something good: yes" pretty fast. Your logic is flawed. First off the basics (try to think of it separate from the subject): [b]Something is considered good by many.[/b]. Does that make something right? If 90% of the USA says all Maplestory players are gey, it doesn't make it true.
And when your first assumption fails (there ARE reasons why killing him was bad, and MANY is not equal to EVERYONE), you can't draw the conclusion that celebrating the first would be good.

You won't hear me say that his death doesn't have benefits, but I think that overall the USA would've gained a hell of a lot more respect in the world if they captured him, and brought justice by trial. And that respect is what you need so hard in a world that's rapidly changing. Or the USA might lose their status as world leader. Country's that are better in understanding other cultures/values will take the lead (part of why China is doing so great might be that they do business without interfering with their partners politics). The USA is better off with allies than enemies, especially with the crappy current economy. By capturing Osama and giving him a fair trial, they could've gained trust from country's that used to see only evil in America and it could've lead to better business relationships.

[quote=freejuspower]Think of it this way, in an ideal world we could try to be batman, but in the real world, idealism only goes so far. If you've watched "The Dark Knight," try to equate Osama with Joker. Then picture Batman as the hero one who represents justice without jurisdiction. Now the movie was pretty good. The only thing I disliked was how Batman let so many people die because he couldn't kill Joker under the basis of his sentimental beliefs and ideals. I hate to break it to you, but not everyone can be Batman in this world. It is not realistic and not practical.[/quote]I watched Batman: the Dark Knight (awesome movie), but I don't see any point in your analogy. What do you mean by "not everyone can be Batman in this world"? Do you mean that not everyone can act like the USA without jurisdiction? I agree, everyone should be under jurisdiction or chaos would rule. You can't make an exception for one country or person. An why the "I hate to break it to you"? Did I ever imply that every country should be able to act without jurisdiction?

[quote=freejuspower]Would you let one man live if he was to cause the destruction of many later? How would you feel if you let one man go free and he caused the deaths of thousands? How would you feel if you could have pulled the trigger back then sacrificing your innocence in order to save thousands?[/quote]What's this nonsense you're talking? I wouldn't let anyone go and neither should the USA have. I just said there were possibly other options besides executing him right then and there. And yes kill one person to save thousands makes sense (although it is dependent on the importance of the one person vs. the thousand others), but where did I say anything about letting Osama go?

@OnyxApple: Yes I believe they captured him while he wasn't harmed and executed him. If he was wounded during the fight and died because of that, wouldn't that be way classier to announce to the world? I understand that Obama doesn't want to lie, so they phrase it very carefully. Mind that a speech of that magnitude is checked like a 100times by advisors/staff/legal counseling etc.

@squaids: 'Muslim' fanatics have abandoned the true meaning of the Islam and exchanged it with a war based religion which is the only true religion and all who don't believe in it must die, not by far the original point of the Islam which is to be a religion of peace that accepts all.

[quote=squaids]What I didn't understand is why did they bury Osama in the sea ? Thats what they did to Megatron in Transformers and he came back and....[/quote]

LOL. But in a more serious note, they bury him at sea so Muslim fanatics couldn't turn his grave into a sacred place (a pilgrimage spot).

Well, guess he should have cloak engaged herp derp.

[quote=thomas1985]What a nonsense argument that I would have to try it myself to understand the point, I'm not an idiot. Yes there was a firefight, and I would've understood it if he was a casualty while resisting his arrest.

Obama said something else though: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1k36k1CovE#t=4m39s]Obama's speech[/url]. "[b]AFTER[/b] a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden".

I don't kid around when it's about a serious matter like this. And that "progress isn't made overnight" doesn't justify a war killing thousands of innocents. You can make progress in other ways too.

I understand the joy and the feeling of some kind of justice, but the immense celebrating because one person was killed is a bit much. And stop the self pity to justify the celebrating. The USA is the size of an entire continent so bad stuff will always happen on a area that size. You say it like the rest of the world didn't have any disasters to deserve a celebration of some kind...what about the disasters in Haïti, Japan, Christchurch, the situation in the middle-east etc. I think they are in debt for something to celebrate too.[/quote]

I don't quite understand your statement. Why would someone celebrate the disasters in Haiti, Japan, Christchurch, situation in the middle east...? There's nothing good to celebrate. You don't celebrate massive destruction. That said, Osama's death is seen as a good thing by many. And logically, would you celebrate something that's good? I'll answer that for you: YES. Now I don't have to tell you why his death is good? You can just read all 46 pages of this thread. Now did I celebrate his death? I'll answer this one for you again: No. I'm busy with school and AP exams and therefore, his death does not concern me, but I do understand why people would have cause to celebrate. Think of it this way, in an ideal world we could try to be batman, but in the real world, idealism only goes so far. If you've watched "The Dark Knight," try to equate Osama with Joker. Then picture Batman as the hero one who represents justice without jurisdiction. Now the movie was pretty good. The only thing I disliked was how Batman let so many people die because he couldn't kill Joker under the basis of his sentimental beliefs and ideals. I hate to break it to you, but not everyone can be Batman in this world. It is not realistic and not practical. Would you let one man live if he was to cause the destruction of many later? How would you feel if you let one man go free and he caused the deaths of thousands? How would you feel if you could have pulled the trigger back then sacrificing your innocence in order to save thousands? Honestly, I don't have the right answer, but I believe this is a suffice explanation of my view.

[quote=IceyArcher]Meh; wasn't there a firefight?

I don't think it was wrong for them to kill him when he/his men were lighting up our troops when they swooped in on the place.
Kinda hard to cuff a person to take to trial when they're shooting at you, lemme know if you ever try it and how it works out for you.

As for the invasions n such, people are foolish to believe progress would be made overnight, don't kid yourself.

I think people are celebrating so.. much because honestly we haven't had a whole lot to celebrate; we're in debt, we suffered 9/11, katrina, bp, recent tornadoes annihilating everything. We've been looking for a break for oh, 10 years now, naturally people are going to freak out about it.[/quote]What a nonsense argument that I would have to try it myself to understand the point, I'm not an idiot. Yes there was a firefight, and I would've understood it if he was a casualty while resisting his arrest.

Obama said something else though: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1k36k1CovE#t=4m39s]Obama's speech[/url]. "[b]AFTER[/b] a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden".

I don't kid around when it's about a serious matter like this. And that "progress isn't made overnight" doesn't justify a war killing thousands of innocents. You can make progress in other ways too.

I understand the joy and the feeling of some kind of justice, but the immense celebrating because one person was killed is a bit much. And stop the self pity to justify the celebrating. The USA is the size of an entire continent so bad stuff will always happen on a area that size. You say it like the rest of the world didn't have any disasters to deserve a celebration of some kind...what about the disasters in Haïti, Japan, Christchurch, the situation in the middle-east etc. I think they are in debt for something to celebrate too.

Wich country is going to be attacked?
Let's see....

I can't believe what I saw when I turned on the news yesterday, masses of people shouting on the streets, burning of pictures....something I would expect at typical middle eastern demonstrations, not from "sane" Americans. Someone held a sign Obama: 1, Osama 0...right, 9/11 wasn't bad enough to be worth a point? -_-. Just call it equal and stop all the ridiculous wars.

Of course I am not on Osama's side, but the way America handles their foreign politics is crazy. Performing unannounced military action on foreign territory, executing Osama instead of bringing him to court :s. They had a chance to be an example to the world. An example of a mature and fair country that treats others like they want their citizens to be treated (fair trial). But instead they sunk to the level of the terrorist and showed the world just one thing: revenge.

I guess the true moral of the USA is that they only care about protecting their own existence and take revenge on whoever messes with them. And they hide that moral behind a cover of "caring about the world". All the massive invasions didn't do jack. It made your country almost go bankrupt and cost thousands of people their lives, while the major achievements are done by small specific actions fed by intelligence. Why go to war when the latter is far more effective?

@above: True, it seems a little too convenient for Obama now the elections are coming up. He really needed a achievement like this to grow some popularity.

[quote=KageShibai]So many patriots here...It's disgusting...do you ever think about anything else then your own selfish pride? What about all the innocent people who died in war? "99.9% human error?" wtf? it's human error to launch a bomb at a group of school children or a building with families in it? WHERE ARE THESE TERRORISTS YOU SPEAK OF?
I think you need to look the definition of terrorist in a dictionary...let me do it for you.

Terrorist: The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims
sounds just like america[/quote]

This guy has a very good point. Search on YouTube "Collateral Murder" and you'll see the real terrorists at work

Also, I have doubts that Osama was actually killed. No media images of him dying/his body and the US conveniently dumped him off the back of a boat. I'm half waiting for a video by Osama saying "Haha, nice try Obama." Besides, it's one terrorist. Tell me when you've demolished Alqueda (fail spelling probably) and THEN I'll give the US Army credit. Even if they did kill him, 30 highly trained US Seals hunting down and killing one guy? Use the resources better and go fight on the front line like the other troops, maybe then we can have a fair game...

[quote=d4rkxStrIfe]The ignorance and plain stupidity of this statement astounds me to no end. I can't believe you are actually decrying the United States as being just as evil as terrorists who commit wholesale acts of mass murder in the name of some twisted ideology of religion. The fact that you cannot recognize the difference between the two parties demonstrates your completely sheltered, unrealistic view of this world. Statements like these make me wonder why some people even live in the United States without enjoying the freedoms that the United States provides, the freedoms that our soldiers have fought and died for.

It astounds me that you cannot comprehend the difference between the restraint and responsibility that the United States attempts to exercise in dealing with insurgents and terrorists in order to minimize civilian casualties versus the indiscriminate suicide bombings and murders of civilians and using of civilians as human shields in firefights by terrorists. Of course, there is no doubt that military actions undertaken by the United States military have resulted in civilian casualties, but they were 99.9% of the time the result of human error and the problems of hunting terrorists who hide behind civilians. The other 0.1% are isolated cases of premeditated murder by soldiers. But like any responsible nation and people, we condemned these incidents, and we punished the perpetrators accordingly. The United States is comprised of humans; it is not perfect. But how do you even compare these to the acts of terrorists, who exercise no restraint at all and do not hesitate to deliberately and indiscriminately kill civilians and justify it with their twisted ideology? How do you fail to recognize the difference between rejoicing at the death of a internationally wanted terrorist and mass murderer who heads one of the world's most dangerous terrorist organizations bent on massacring in the name of their twisted religion versus rejoicing at the deaths of innocent civilians, regardless of where they died? The illogic and irrationality of your comparisons is pitiable. If you truly think the United States is such an evil country, then I invite you to move to another country, let's say, perhaps in China, which has nowhere as many civil rights as the United States does? Or perhaps Afghanistan, where your family will probably get imprisoned and executed for heresy and indecency by the Taliban? Seriously, if you truly think that the United States is no better than terrorists, please move out of the country. Your ignorance and naivety won't be missed.[/quote]

This guy brings up a good point.

Everyone (hyperbole) acts like his death has just brung world peace. I don't commend him for his actions against the world trade centre, but was his death more revenge against his attack on the world trade centre than anything else?

@d4rkxStrIfe: Nah, that's not it. Too much arguing for today. I'm more of a chill, kick back and relax sort of guy. Not a every-single-word needs to spell right/ argue all day kind of guy.

Anyways, I find your lack of swag disturbing. O.o

He's not dead. He changed his name to Billy to blend in with the society. And also Hitler isn't dead either. The Occult society is hiding them. It's a conspiracy.
*BodyBoost Blue aura* invincible.

[quote=doriqat]@myrdrex: "I understand how warm and fuzzy it make syou feel to sit up on a high horse and preach how "evil" the big bad US is. It's a natural phase that many naive adolescents go through and typically outgrow." << was attacking me directly, you basically called me a kid. I could be 40 years old for all you know, fool.

Dude, stop trying to act like you know what our Governments, and other Governments think and do. If there's anything I've learned over my life its that NOTHING is certain.
and, please, we aren't much better than the terrorists, period. We glorify our military so much its disgusting. I don't get how people can think we are superior than everyone else when truly were not even close to being on top.

Another thing, our Government isn't all that responsible. If we WERE responsible we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

I don't know what world YOUR living in but over the years the U.S has done a lot of pretty screwed up stuff, and the fact that we claim to be civilized and superior than others only makes us worse. It's disgusting how so many people are stupid enough to believe everything they hear in the media.[/quote]

The ignorance and plain stupidity of this statement astounds me to no end. I can't believe you are actually decrying the United States as being just as evil as terrorists who commit wholesale acts of mass murder in the name of some twisted ideology of religion. The fact that you cannot recognize the difference between the two parties demonstrates your completely sheltered, unrealistic view of this world. Statements like these make me wonder why some people even live in the United States without enjoying the freedoms that the United States provides, the freedoms that our soldiers have fought and died for.

It astounds me that you cannot comprehend the difference between the restraint and responsibility that the United States attempts to exercise in dealing with insurgents and terrorists in order to minimize civilian casualties versus the indiscriminate suicide bombings and murders of civilians and using of civilians as human shields in firefights by terrorists. Of course, there is no doubt that military actions undertaken by the United States military have resulted in civilian casualties, but they were 99.9% of the time the result of human error and the problems of hunting terrorists who hide behind civilians. The other 0.1% are isolated cases of premeditated murder by soldiers. But like any responsible nation and people, we condemned these incidents, and we punished the perpetrators accordingly. The United States is comprised of humans; it is not perfect. But how do you even compare these to the acts of terrorists, who exercise no restraint at all and do not hesitate to deliberately and indiscriminately kill civilians and justify it with their twisted ideology? How do you fail to recognize the difference between rejoicing at the death of a internationally wanted terrorist and mass murderer who heads one of the world's most dangerous terrorist organizations bent on massacring in the name of their twisted religion versus rejoicing at the deaths of innocent civilians, regardless of where they died? The illogic and irrationality of your comparisons is pitiable. If you truly think the United States is such an evil country, then I invite you to move to another country, let's say, perhaps in China, which has nowhere as many civil rights as the United States does? Or perhaps Afghanistan, where your family will probably get imprisoned and executed for heresy and indecency by the Taliban? Seriously, if you truly think that the United States is no better than terrorists, please move out of the country. Your ignorance and naivety won't be missed.

i don't know what are those guys celebrating? that osama was only a guy things aren't going to change ... "Hierba mala nunca muere"

Greek Mythology.
Hydra.
Nuff said.

@doriqat: I meant you said you were a prideful American, but in reality, you're not, seeing how you continue to degrade America by your views.

Our extremists consists of people representing the far ends of the political spectrum, for example Donald Trump (my opinion)

How about a little history comparison here. Osama and Hitler.
Hitler and his extremist ideas of a purified Aryan race led to the deaths of close to 11 million people (6 million being Jews). When Hitler died, the whole world celebrated. So you call this celebration unethical?
Osama Bin Laden, although not fully proven to be physically connected to the terrorist attacks on 9/11, he is the idol that the extremists who did commit the bombings (and we believe the perpetrators were Al-qaeda memebers). Thousands of [b]American[/b] lives were lost, and you're calling the rejoice of the death of a person Americans believe to be a representative of evil to be unethical?

way to ignore the other half of my argument....

Hiding in a mansion for the past few years near a military base and not getting caught?
[url=http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/reedserna/Meme%2520Album/O_U.jpg]Oh you.[/url]

[quote=doriqat]@myrdrex: "I understand how warm and fuzzy it make syou feel to sit up on a high horse and preach how "evil" the big bad US is. It's a natural phase that many naive adolescents go through and typically outgrow." << was attacking me directly, you basically called me a kid. I could be 40 years old for all you know, fool.

Dude, stop trying to act like you know what our Governments, and other Governments think and do. If there's anything I've learned over my life its that NOTHING is certain.
and, please, we aren't much better than the terrorists, period. We glorify our military so much its disgusting. I don't get how people can think we are superior than everyone else when truly were not even close to being on top.

Another thing, our Government isn't all that responsible. If we WERE responsible we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

I don't know what world YOUR living in but over the years the U.S has done a lot of pretty screwed up stuff, and the fact that we claim to be civilized and superior than others only makes us worse. It's disgusting how so many people are stupid enough to believe everything they hear in the media.[/quote]

No, what's stupid is people who live such an incredibly sheltered existence that they see the US as evil. The fact that you're even able to speak out against your government as being evil and yet you fail to appreciate that freedom shows just how sheltered a viewpoint that is.

If you're more than a kid with any sort of real-world experience you would know that. Come back to me after you're offered a job in Dubai but are warned that you may not want to bring your wife and daughter with you, since they risk imprisonment and worse if they leave the company-provided compound. I have absolutely no qualms claiming that the US is demonstrably and irrefutably better than other such cultures.

If your claim of how terrible we were was even remotely true, people who live with true evil and horror would not be (literally) dieing to sneak INTO this country.

You're right that anyone that claims the US is perfect is also unspeakably naive. No one should have any doubts that unsavory things have been done in the name of national security and covered up by powerful forces. But when you view our goals vs those of terrorists, there's absolutely no sane and rational comparison. If our country literally sent suicide bombers into shopping malls of nations we didn't like, the American public would be in an uproar and our officials would be held accountable. Instead, terrorists rejoice at such actions. The is no comparison.

If you're offended at having your statements called naive, then don't be so naive. There is a difference between being pleased at the death of someone who was tyring to do you harm, vs. 3000 innocent men, women and children. No sane person could possibly fail to recognize that fundamental difference.

[url=http://newsnet7.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/bin-laden-dead-2011bin-laden-deadbin-laden-killedladen-dead-or-aliveladen-deadosama-bin-laden-bodyosama-bin-laden-body-foundosama-bin-laden-body-703725.jpg]Here's his corpse[/url]

@ChildCrusade: "Peace agreement? What kind of world are you living in. That Cuban Missile Crisis was a retaliation by Khrushchev with the missiles in Germany. The U.S. was at fault, since this was the period of Peaceful Coexistence.
You have too little pride in your country. You're a prideful American,"
^ You contradicted yourself.

And I'm not being arrogant, I'm just being really blunt o.o.

"You think the extremists weren't celebrating?" Yay, compare us to the extremists, THEY DID IT, so why don't we do it? Right?
This is exactly why were all the same.

EXTREMISTS, that killed innocent people were celebrating death, and our "sophisticated" citizens do it too. That says so much about this Country, our regular citizens are as barbaric as Extremists, damn I want to see what OUR extremists are like.

[quote=Kino]I heard people near in D.C were having a party all night...that's messed up...
But it does kinda make sense, he was behind the bombing of the twin towers and the pentagon[/quote]

actually no, he was not physically linked to the bombing, but he was the reason for the start.

@doriqat way to totally ignore my argument....arrogant....

I heard people near in D.C were having a party all night...that's messed up...
But it does kinda make sense, he was behind the bombing of the twin towers and the pentagon

@myrdrex: "I understand how warm and fuzzy it make syou feel to sit up on a high horse and preach how "evil" the big bad US is. It's a natural phase that many naive adolescents go through and typically outgrow." << was attacking me directly, you basically called me a kid. I could be 40 years old for all you know, fool.

Dude, stop trying to act like you know what our Governments, and other Governments think and do. If there's anything I've learned over my life its that NOTHING is certain.
and, please, we aren't much better than the terrorists, period. We glorify our military so much its disgusting. I don't get how people can think we are superior than everyone else when truly were not even close to being on top.

Another thing, our Government isn't all that responsible. If we WERE responsible we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

I don't know what world YOUR living in but over the years the U.S has done a lot of pretty screwed up stuff, and the fact that we claim to be civilized and superior than others only makes us worse. It's disgusting how so many people are stupid enough to believe everything they hear in the media.

Some guy I know made a robe and hat from a couple of US flags.
He ran around town and screamed "USA" for quite a long time.

[quote=doriqat]@myrdrex: There you go again, stuffing words in my mouth, I didn't say the U.S was evil, I said were the same as everyone else. Also.

"I understand how warm and fuzzy it make syou feel to sit up on a high horse and preach how "evil" the big bad US is. It's a natural phase that many naive adolescents go through and typically outgrow. But a comparison between the society of the US and the evils of terrorists is a complete and utter failure to recognize reality. There's a reason why people are breaking the law to get INTO the US while others are giving their lives to fight AGAINST their evil middle eastern rulers."

Only makes you sound like a D-bag. I'm a proud American, FYI. So stop talking out of your ass please. You've turned this into a more personal argument which is why I really can't take you seriously.

By the way what I said is completely the opposite of "narrow". Also the U.S really isn't the most powerful Country. Your over exaggerating a LOT, you have [i]too[/i] much pride in your country. Your supposed to be humble, your really not supposed to go around saying "The U.S can bomb the crap out of this, this, this, and that, we rule, yipee."

You should have pride in how well we negotiate peace, like we did with the Missile Crisis when Kennedy was in office, THATS something to be proud of. Peace, not destructive capacity.

OH and another thing, Osama really didn't do much, he was only a symbolic leader. To be honest he was probably a decoy. So go ahead, celebrate the killing of a person who probably had little or nothing to do with 9/11. That really shows how great our standards are. Oh look we killed an Arab, lets go celebrate, yeah?

and for the 100th time. You don't celebrate death, period.[/quote]

Peace agreement? What kind of world are you living in. That Cuban Missile Crisis was a retaliation by Khrushchev with the missiles in Germany. The U.S. was at fault, since this was the period of Peaceful Coexistence.
You have too little pride in your country. You're a prideful American, and I'm just a legal resident in the U.S. (green card holder), and yet I know that the U.S. is in fact the single most powerful nation in terms of military. You think China is the world's current super power? No, it's economy is growing and soon it will become the economic powerhouse of the world, but in terms of military, you believe the rumored "1 billion" troops are capable of stopping the U.S.'s nuclear warheads? Think again.

Your arrogant attitude is really annoying. You know that Osama bin Laden is a symbolic figure, but do you understand what he led to?
His existence led to the belief of radical Islams to rid the world of the evil Western society. By this, they mean capitalism, which the reason for freedom. What was one of the most important buildings in the world in terms of trade? The World Trade Center, otherwise known as the Twin Towers. The bombing of the Twin Towers represented a major blow to capitalism, and the lives of thousands. You think the extremists weren't celebrating?

[quote=doriqat]@myrdrex: There you go again, stuffing words in my mouth, I didn't say the U.S was evil, I said were the same as everyone else. Also.

"I understand how warm and fuzzy it make syou feel to sit up on a high horse and preach how "evil" the big bad US is. It's a natural phase that many naive adolescents go through and typically outgrow. But a comparison between the society of the US and the evils of terrorists is a complete and utter failure to recognize reality. There's a reason why people are breaking the law to get INTO the US while others are giving their lives to fight AGAINST their evil middle eastern rulers."

Only makes you sound like a D-bag. I'm a proud American, FYI. So stop talking out of your ass please. You've turned this into a more personal argument which is why I really can't take you seriously.

By the way what I said is completely the opposite of "narrow". Also the U.S really isn't the most powerful Country. Your over exaggerating a LOT, you have [i]too[/i] much pride in your country. Your supposed to be humble, your really not supposed to go around saying "The U.S can bomb the crap out of this, this, this, and that, we rule, yipee."

You should have pride in how well we negotiate peace, like we did with the Missile Crisis when Kennedy was in office, THATS something to be proud of. Peace, not destructive capacity.

OH and another thing, Osama really didn't do much, he was only a symbolic leader. To be honest he was probably a decoy. So go ahead, celebrate the killing of a person who probably had little or nothing to do with 9/11. That really shows how great our standards are. Oh look we killed an Arab, lets go celebrate, yeah?

and for the 100th time. You don't celebrate death, period.[/quote]

You expect to be taken even remotely seriously when you claim Osama had "almost nothing to do with 9/11"? What other absurd conspiracy theories do you believe in?

Again, I'm not putting words in your mouth- you have said, time and time again, we're no better than terrorists. I have pointed out, again and again, why you are so demonstrably wrong.

My examples of the proven, well demonstrated difference between how we handle power and the indifference towards life that our enemies shown are indisputable. You can not possibly argue that we behave the same as terrorists when we consistently see terrorists use every available means to kill civilians, while we HAVE that ability to kill billions of people who disagree with us yet we choose not to.

That is the fundamental difference between good and evil, between responsible and irresponsible. By and large, we try our best to protect civilians, we try our best to only kill those that threaten us. By and large, terrorists kill everyone they possibly can, using every weapon available to them. If we were honestly just as bad as them, the middle east would be a smoldering and smooth glass surface, devoid of all human life.

Think objectively before you make absurd accusations. I am not attacking you personally- but rather the ideas that you are putting forth. You and I agree that there are terrible examples of humanity, found across the globe, regardless of race or religious belief. But once you started lumping in "the US" with terrorists, you said something demonstrably absurd. I am simply pointing out how absolutely and irrefutably false those accusations are.

It's healthy for us to question our government and hold them accountable when they mess up. The fact that we do so and have the freedom and responsibility to do so is _precisely why_ we, as a nation, are better than the terrorists.

If you haven't had the pleasure to do so, spend some time in a different culture that we are "No better than". When offered a ChemE job in the UAE and informed that it's important that I never let my wife or daughter leave the company-run compound or I risk them being arrested, imprisoned, and possibly executed in the name of religious purity for them not being properly garbed, I did not think "Oh, that's ok, that's no worse than the US". I firmly and unabashedly recognized that there are certain universal rights and wrong. The US, more so than almost any other nation, typically falls and the right side of that equation.

The US does not sit around masterminding ways of causing maximum damage to women and children. Terrorists do precisely that. Either you recognize the difference in behavior, or you don't. If you refuse to recognize that very basic fact, then we are apparently living in two very different worlds with two very different realities and no further debate is even remotely possible.

As for celebrating death being wrong- again, it all depends. I welcome the death of a man who was a fianceer and recruiting tool of people who would do everything in their power to kill our brothers, sisters, wives, daughters and other loved ones. Yes, joyous celebration in the streets is certianly distasteful, but I certainly can understand that FAR more than I can understand those who celebrated the deaths of the 9/11 victims. One is celebrating the death of evil, one is celebrating the death of innocents. They are not comparable.

[quote=MarxMaster]Eh, some muslim clerics out there did say that the burial wasn't proper since he was buried at sea, and his head wasn't facing towards Mecca. Yeah, he's a total jerkass and many people can agree with that. But, considering how some people criticized the burial as improper, seems like that he still deserves a proper burial by Muslim traditions.[/quote]

Emphasis on some. There will always be exceptions. But none the less, the rest of the Muslims wouldn't care less.

@myrdrex: There you go again, stuffing words in my mouth, I didn't say the U.S was evil, I said were the same as everyone else. Also.

"I understand how warm and fuzzy it make syou feel to sit up on a high horse and preach how "evil" the big bad US is. It's a natural phase that many naive adolescents go through and typically outgrow. But a comparison between the society of the US and the evils of terrorists is a complete and utter failure to recognize reality. There's a reason why people are breaking the law to get INTO the US while others are giving their lives to fight AGAINST their evil middle eastern rulers."

Only makes you sound like a D-bag. I'm a proud American, FYI. So stop talking out of your ass please. You've turned this into a more personal argument which is why I really can't take you seriously.

By the way what I said is completely the opposite of "narrow". Also the U.S really isn't the most powerful Country. Your over exaggerating a LOT, you have [i]too[/i] much pride in your country. Your supposed to be humble, your really not supposed to go around saying "The U.S can bomb the crap out of this, this, this, and that, we rule, yipee."

You should have pride in how well we negotiate peace, like we did with the Missile Crisis when Kennedy was in office, THATS something to be proud of. Peace, not destructive capacity.

OH and another thing, Osama really didn't do much, he was only a symbolic leader. To be honest he was probably a decoy. So go ahead, celebrate the killing of a person who probably had little or nothing to do with 9/11. That really shows how great our standards are. Oh look we killed an Arab, lets go celebrate, yeah?

and for the 100th time. You don't celebrate death, period.

[quote=MarxMaster]Do your homework rofl. His body was dumped in the sea to follow muslim traditions to bury a body within 24 hours, for diplomatic reasons. He could have been buried in the ground, but who wants an infamous terrorist buried in their country's soil?

And, the photos aren't released yet because everybody who has seen them, said that they're very ugly. Brains are scattered all over, as I've heard.[/quote]

Um. I can safely say that Osama Bin Ladin has committed many crimes against Islam, so much so that he could hardly be considered a Muslim. I'm sure many of the 1 billion Muslims in the world would agree with me on this one. He didn't respect Islam, why should he be respected in regards to it?

[quote=DontCareMuch]America will make a new COD game for this.[/quote]
They'll make Osama bin laden's hideout a new map for their next set of map packs.
heck, its already pretty much mapped out!
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/110502-osama-compound-graphic-10a.photoblog900.jpg

[quote=KHAlNlWest]Let me explain something too you, because you seem to have this immature idea that if anyone says anything negative against Islam they are automatically assuming all are terrorists and ill willed. I don't believe that at all, in fact I would say the westborro church is the christian equivalent, does that mean I think all christians are wrong? No but it's the perception they receive from the religion that causes the problem, thus is partly to blame. If you can't wrap your hand around the adjective [b]perception[/b] then I'm done here.

I find it funny how you say "uneducated is impossible!" yet use words like "TEACHINGS". Way to contradict yourself there buddy. And no, once again your perception, clouding your judgement, or your purposely asking me too correct you, is that people who testify to the religion, whether educated of the religion or not, are representing it. Now if it's two bums going around saying "BELIEVE ME" yeah I see your point, but now we have a cult slaughtering civilians in the name of this book, believing modernization is evil. And no, I'm not going to read the Quran, as me knowing what it actually means or not does me no good. Why? Cus crazy blow myself up bombardi believes his "PERCEPTION" of the book, not mine. And apparently so do a lot of OTHER people.

Spamming ignorant the entire post doesn't help your argument, at all by the way, thought you could use some advice for true debating.[/quote]

Pretty sure [b]perception[/b] is a noun.
I mean, look at it, [b]TION![/b]